Just an FYI, looks like Stalwart Aven is being treated as a rare. I've had it ahead of my white uncommons and been down a rare multiple times. Also, Thunderclap Wyvern is being treated as an artifact. Awesome generator though, thanks for always maintaining it!
thx for the report, really dig your list. i'm curious to know whether or not the ruins and bskull/explosives combo was any good for you. did it ever show up during the tournament or play testing?
It doesn't come up terribly often, but when it does it tends to be very important. Something also just feels off to me about leaving home without it, so I keep it in. The Batterskull recursion has been a godsend for me against control decks, though there are less and less of those running around.
Manged to top 8 a 50 person PPTQ with this list. Here's what I remember/wrote down from the event:
R1 - Tyler with R/B Burn: Game One, he hits me pretty early with a flurry of burn spells, but runs out of gas. I resolve a Gifts for Rites/Iona and have Iona name Red, but have to dodge him drawing a sixth land, as he has 3 Bump in the Nights in the yard. I figure he's more likely to draw a red spell than a land or his last Bump. He draws, and concedes. Game Two, he runs roughshod over me while I struggle to stabilize. Game Three, he has a turn zero Leyline of Punishment, but thankfully I didn't have any lifegain cards in hand yet. My turns were land, land Caryatid, land shock myself. He has a Swiftspear that he swings into my Caryatid with, so I block. He bolts me twice to pump his Swiftspear big enough, and I Gifts in response. He concedes to my reveal of Rites/Iona, which I feel a little bad about since I didn't have the fourth land in hand to cast the Rites. 2-1, 1-0
R2 - Jack with Ensoul Affinity: Game One, I have the Abrupt Decay every time he goes for an Ensoul Artifact and resolve Rites/Elesh-Norn to seal the deal. Game Two, he keeps a one-land Glimmervoid hand, and plays a Signal Pest turn one. I lead on an Inquisition of Kozilek, and see a hand of Dispatch, Master of Etherium, Signal Pest, Ensoul Artifact and Cranial Plating. I decide to get very greedy and take the Pest. He plays an Ornithopter, but fails to lay a second land, I play a land and pass, he attacks for one and passes back, and I kill off his Pest and Thopter with Abrupt Decay and Nature's Claim, taking out his Glimmervoid in the process. He draws one more land over the course of the game, and I once again Rites/Elesh-Norn lock him, as his land is an Inkmoth Nexus. 2-0, 2-0
R3 - Chris with Podless Pod (Collected Company Combo): Game One, I have the spot removal every time he tries to go for any combos, clean up the board with Damnation, and slowly kill him. We don't have a ton of time for Game Two, but I manage a fairly quick Rites/Elesh-Norn to lock him out, and beat him to death with it. 2-0, 3-0
R4 - Bobby with Podless Pod (Collected Company Combo): Game One, Bobby mulls to 5 and still almost manages to beat me, but I have the removal every time he goes for the combo. I clean up with Rites/Norn and it's on to Game Two. This game is not nearly as good for me, as he quickly ramps out threat after threat, and I fall behind and die. Game Three was very similar to Game One, and I again lock him out with Rite/Norn. 2-1, 4-0
R5 - Bill with Ad Nauseam Combo: We ID, as we're pretty sure that we can double ID into top 8. ID, 4-0-1
R6 - ??? (Forgot his name and deck): We ID as well, knowing that we are locked for top 8. ID, 4-0-2
I get into the top 8 as the 3rd seed.
Quarterfinals - Justin with Abzan Midrange: Justin starts off with a gameloss for decklist error, so we move immediately to Game Two. I keep a relatively slow hand with Lingering Souls to hold the fort, only it gets Thoughtseized on turn one. I draw lands, while Justin plays his own Lingering Souls, flashes it back, and uses Gavony Township to beat me to death. Game Two is much closer, and I get a turn 4 Gifts into turn 5 Rites/Norn to kill his spirit tokens and shrink his Tarmogoyf. At this point I know his hand is Blood Baron of Vizkopa and nothing else. He top decks Path to Exile, we play back and forth for a bit, then I die to his more efficient creatures. 1-2, 4-1-2 and dead.
I really liked my decklist for this tournament, though I was pretty lucky to never play against Tron or a friend who was on Amulet Bloom. I'd like to put a Leyline of Sanctity in the board, though that'll have to wait for Modern Masters 2015.
Been a while, but I managed to top-4 a 14-person GPT for Vegas on Monday. My List. I went 5-0 in the swiss rounds, defeating Infect, UWR Control, Jund, Mono-Blue Delver, and Tribal Flames Zoo. I lost my first top-4 round to Merfolk. I really liked my list, but was a little sad to not see many of the decks that I had sideboard cards for (that was likely a good thing though). Best part was never playing against Tron. Any comments or criticism of the list are more than welcome and greatly appreciated!
From what I could tell, the meta at that event was:
2x Four Color Gifts
2x Infect
Splinter Twin
Tribal Zoo
Jund
UWRb Control
Merfolk
Storm
UW Polymorph
Mono-Blue Delver
3x Unknowns I didn't catch.
I think I commented enough on your list when we met. Sorry if I came off as a little acerbic about it - that's a character flaw I'm trying to get rid of. Also, I was busy making misplays and keeping bad hands like the scrub I am (I went 2-3, one of which was, for all intents and purposes, a bye). It was nice to meet you, and congratulations on your finish!
I'm pretty sure one of the unknowns was Restore Balance, not sure about the others. No worries, I appreciate all comments on my deck, criticisms especially. The Academy Ruins package is the only thing in my list that I'm a little questionable about right now, and it seems that the earlier discussion on it's merits came down to the fact that Engineered Explosives just doesn't do enough right now. I really like having the option to recur a Batterskull against a control deck, as once I get the Life from the Loam/Raven's Crime soft-lock established that tends to be the next thing I go get to create inevitability.
Been a while, but I managed to top-4 a 14-person GPT for Vegas on Monday. My List. I went 5-0 in the swiss rounds, defeating Infect, UWR Control, Jund, Mono-Blue Delver, and Tribal Flames Zoo. I lost my first top-4 round to Merfolk. I really liked my list, but was a little sad to not see many of the decks that I had sideboard cards for (that was likely a good thing though). Best part was never playing against Tron. Any comments or criticism of the list are more than welcome and greatly appreciated!
I haven't tried either, but I think there's good reason not to:
@Jin-Gitaxias - He doesn't do anything immediately, and if they hit him with removal, he did nothing. Elesh Norn can sweep the opponent's side of the board, so the closest comparison here (I think) is Iona, but she's backbreaking against some decks in almost the same way as Jin-Gitaxias
@Griselbrand - I don't know if other people have been running into this, but my life total would often be too low to do much drawing off Griselbrand, at least without putting myself further into burn range than I already would be. He's a great creature, but I don't think he really fits what this deck wants to do.
I could be completely off on these, please let me know if I am.
Interesting idea, I've been searching for any possible alternatives in case there's something better out there. I think Iona is the irreplaceable one though - I fetched her up almost every single game instead of Elesh Norn. You want the reanimation targets to win the game on the spot, and Iona will do that against most decks. Against UWR control I would name white, against Jund, black, against twin, blue, against Merfolk, blue ... and without those colors, those decks can't get rid of her.
That's interesting, I had quite the opposite experience. I always found myself getting Elesh out first, with Iona as more of a back-up. There were a few matches at the GP that I found myself tutoring Iona up first, but most of the matches I played were aggro-based and I wanted Elesh. I do view Iona as a key component of the deck, though, since she locks up a good deal of matchups.
Now that I finally have a good job, I have a decent budget and some time to get back into Legacy. I've been playing Modern recently, but own a lot of Legacy/Modern staples:
3x Liliana of the Veil
40x Legacy Duals
20x Modern Fetches
4x DRS
4x Dark Confidant
4x LED
4x Force of Will
4x Wasteland
4x Snapcaster Mage
I've played some Legacy before, but always with Teir 2 decks like Candelabra-less High Tide and Mono-White Stax. I thought I would like to get into Storm, which I've played variations of before, but it doesn't seem as fun to me as it used to. I don't have a tight budget, but I am looking to cut back my Magic spending a bit. Any suggestions for what I should start trying to work towards?
I ran basically the same deck r4stuch89 posted a page or two back with a few changes to the sideboard expecting Storm to be a big force. I can't really comment on the grave hate issue, since I never faced much of it, and the stuff I did face seemed pretty easy to play around. Most of the hate I saw was Scavenging Ooze, and once you know or expected that they have it, it's pretty easy to play around. I also ran into a few Rest in Peace, but that just makes you switch plans to a grindy-er game. I never had a problem with mana screw. A bit of flood that could be played around and a bit of screw with good removal and caryatid to get out of it, but nothing serious.
Back from Richmond, ended up going 5-3, much better than I normally do. The deck performed really well, and there was only one match that I really felt I couldn't win. I played against 2 Kibler Zoo decks, 2 Pod decks, 2 Affinity decks, 1 Burn deck, and 1 Boggles deck. The matches I lost were to Affinity, Burn, and Pod. Affinity loss - I had him on a 4 turn or so clock with Elesh Norn, and the turn before I hard-cast Iona, he drew his one-of Galvanic to finish me off; Burn loss - This matchup seemed very rough on my side, basically hoping to get Gifts into Iona as fast as possible; Pod loss - this is the match that I didn't feel like I had a chance in. Part of this was most certainly my lack of practice with the deck, as pod seems like it should be at least a decent matchup. I felt that the Zoo decks didn't really stand a chance once I knew what they were on, since Iona on white into Elesh Norn is such a beating for them. Affinity felt like a great matchup too, since against all but the fastest starts, a Gifts into Elesh Norn should put the game away. Boggles felt much the same, with an Elesh Norn quickly locking up the win. I was surprised to have not played against Storm, but there didn't seem to be many Storm decks out there. All in all, the deck performed very well and most of the time I felt like I had a good chance to win. On a side note, I heard from my last round opponent about a 5c Gifts deck playing a bunch of different combos. Does anyone happen to have that list?
r4stuch89 - I'm going to be running your version of the deck at GP Richmond, so hopefully I'll have at least a small report of the tournament after this weekend. Hopefully I can break my 2-3 curse.
Dull, I do like the idea of Chromatic Lantern. UR decks won't usually side in artifact hate and if we win, we may side it out Game 3. It is also another interaction with Academy Ruins and dredging.
However, these are just comments to the posts above. I decided to drop a few lines here because I think I have played and tested 4c Gifts quite extensively (many 8-16 man tournaments; 1st place at GPT Prague, 43 opponents total; day two at GP Prague and 103rd place - one of those unlucky runner ups :frown:) and I have a few ideas/remarks/problems to provide here. I will do it in point, it will make it easier to refer to those points. I don't do it because I think I think I know better. I don't. I hope to get a few comments and, hopefully, make this deck better. And it needs tweaking, this is a fact.
1) Lack of Deathrite Shaman hurts this deck a lot. I know that it was also a problem on the other side of the board, but I did prefer playing with it and against it. It was a ramp spell in the first place, but it provided us with lifegain, reach and grave hate as well. Now we have our pants down against numerous decks and cards, which leads to my other point.
2) The deck has a real problem with Storm and decks using manabase hate (Blood Moon and Spreading Seas basically). Although the latter might be deal with swiftly (Abrupt Decay is just awesome), the former is a real drag in my opinion. I played a lot of matches and I was not able to stop it. The best out is reanimating Iona, Shield of Emeria and naming red, but it is not always doable T4.
3) I tried playing Gifts without ramp. After all, Birds of Paradise are a terrible topdeck lategame (and die to every removal possible) and Sylvan Cariatyd does not allow us to drop T2 Liliana of the Veil. After much testing, I came to three conclusions:
a) Gifts absolutely need ramp spells not only for T3 Gifts but also to stabilise a rather sketchy manabase. Best if it could not be removed easily.
b) In the current meta game, T2 Lily is just not so good as it was before. First of all, there are fewer BGx (Junds, Junks, AJundies) and thus there are fewer good targets for edicting T2. Moreover, a lot of decks run flash creatures which often kills Dolly the turn after she was played. It all boils down to a conclusion that we don't need to accelerate T2.
c) Nonetheless, we do want to accelerate by T3 to cast Gifts end of opponent's turn.
All those remarks unequivocally lead to one card - Sylvan Cariatyd. It fulfils all the requirements and additionally may catch Dark Confidant, Snapcaster Mage, Geist of Saint Traft, Goblin Guide, Kird Ape, and more. The only drawback of this card is it's defensive nature, which late game may be quite a problem (e.g. it can't attack with Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, and it usually does nothing in the late game).
4) I think it is time to run Iona main again. A lot of URx decks can't deal with it and thus cannot go all-in too easily sometimes. She also shuts down combos, burn and fair decks (Junds, Bears, other generic one or two colour decks). The only problem with Iona is that she is a third reanimation target (after Sun Titan and Elesh) which makes your opening hands way less impressive.
5) Spot discard is a must against all those random Bloodmoons, Snaps, Twins, combos. Metagame is very malleable and we should always now what we play against to gift properly.
6) Engineered Explosives are good now. Very good and adjustable. I can't imagine playing without them and Academy Ruins, which can also interact well with artifact grave hate in the sideboard.
There are many more concerns I would like to voice, but I don't want this post to get unreadable. I hope those remarks will add something to the discussion. I attach my current list below. Feel free to comment.
My favorite Magic card is Destructive Force. While not an amazing card, it was the centerpiece to one of my all-time favorite decks: Titan Force. This deck was derivative of the Wildfire decks of old, but I never got to play with those. Titan Force allowed me to introduce many of my opponents to the fact the Knight of the Reliquary does not, in fact, die to my Destructive Force.
It doesn't come up terribly often, but when it does it tends to be very important. Something also just feels off to me about leaving home without it, so I keep it in. The Batterskull recursion has been a godsend for me against control decks, though there are less and less of those running around.
R1 - Tyler with R/B Burn: Game One, he hits me pretty early with a flurry of burn spells, but runs out of gas. I resolve a Gifts for Rites/Iona and have Iona name Red, but have to dodge him drawing a sixth land, as he has 3 Bump in the Nights in the yard. I figure he's more likely to draw a red spell than a land or his last Bump. He draws, and concedes. Game Two, he runs roughshod over me while I struggle to stabilize. Game Three, he has a turn zero Leyline of Punishment, but thankfully I didn't have any lifegain cards in hand yet. My turns were land, land Caryatid, land shock myself. He has a Swiftspear that he swings into my Caryatid with, so I block. He bolts me twice to pump his Swiftspear big enough, and I Gifts in response. He concedes to my reveal of Rites/Iona, which I feel a little bad about since I didn't have the fourth land in hand to cast the Rites. 2-1, 1-0
R2 - Jack with Ensoul Affinity: Game One, I have the Abrupt Decay every time he goes for an Ensoul Artifact and resolve Rites/Elesh-Norn to seal the deal. Game Two, he keeps a one-land Glimmervoid hand, and plays a Signal Pest turn one. I lead on an Inquisition of Kozilek, and see a hand of Dispatch, Master of Etherium, Signal Pest, Ensoul Artifact and Cranial Plating. I decide to get very greedy and take the Pest. He plays an Ornithopter, but fails to lay a second land, I play a land and pass, he attacks for one and passes back, and I kill off his Pest and Thopter with Abrupt Decay and Nature's Claim, taking out his Glimmervoid in the process. He draws one more land over the course of the game, and I once again Rites/Elesh-Norn lock him, as his land is an Inkmoth Nexus. 2-0, 2-0
R3 - Chris with Podless Pod (Collected Company Combo): Game One, I have the spot removal every time he tries to go for any combos, clean up the board with Damnation, and slowly kill him. We don't have a ton of time for Game Two, but I manage a fairly quick Rites/Elesh-Norn to lock him out, and beat him to death with it. 2-0, 3-0
R4 - Bobby with Podless Pod (Collected Company Combo): Game One, Bobby mulls to 5 and still almost manages to beat me, but I have the removal every time he goes for the combo. I clean up with Rites/Norn and it's on to Game Two. This game is not nearly as good for me, as he quickly ramps out threat after threat, and I fall behind and die. Game Three was very similar to Game One, and I again lock him out with Rite/Norn. 2-1, 4-0
R5 - Bill with Ad Nauseam Combo: We ID, as we're pretty sure that we can double ID into top 8. ID, 4-0-1
R6 - ??? (Forgot his name and deck): We ID as well, knowing that we are locked for top 8. ID, 4-0-2
I get into the top 8 as the 3rd seed.
Quarterfinals - Justin with Abzan Midrange: Justin starts off with a gameloss for decklist error, so we move immediately to Game Two. I keep a relatively slow hand with Lingering Souls to hold the fort, only it gets Thoughtseized on turn one. I draw lands, while Justin plays his own Lingering Souls, flashes it back, and uses Gavony Township to beat me to death. Game Two is much closer, and I get a turn 4 Gifts into turn 5 Rites/Norn to kill his spirit tokens and shrink his Tarmogoyf. At this point I know his hand is Blood Baron of Vizkopa and nothing else. He top decks Path to Exile, we play back and forth for a bit, then I die to his more efficient creatures. 1-2, 4-1-2 and dead.
I really liked my decklist for this tournament, though I was pretty lucky to never play against Tron or a friend who was on Amulet Bloom. I'd like to put a Leyline of Sanctity in the board, though that'll have to wait for Modern Masters 2015.
I'm pretty sure one of the unknowns was Restore Balance, not sure about the others. No worries, I appreciate all comments on my deck, criticisms especially. The Academy Ruins package is the only thing in my list that I'm a little questionable about right now, and it seems that the earlier discussion on it's merits came down to the fact that Engineered Explosives just doesn't do enough right now. I really like having the option to recur a Batterskull against a control deck, as once I get the Life from the Loam/Raven's Crime soft-lock established that tends to be the next thing I go get to create inevitability.
@Jin-Gitaxias - He doesn't do anything immediately, and if they hit him with removal, he did nothing. Elesh Norn can sweep the opponent's side of the board, so the closest comparison here (I think) is Iona, but she's backbreaking against some decks in almost the same way as Jin-Gitaxias
@Griselbrand - I don't know if other people have been running into this, but my life total would often be too low to do much drawing off Griselbrand, at least without putting myself further into burn range than I already would be. He's a great creature, but I don't think he really fits what this deck wants to do.
I could be completely off on these, please let me know if I am.
That'd piss me off too. Did he at least compensate you for the damage done?
That's interesting, I had quite the opposite experience. I always found myself getting Elesh out first, with Iona as more of a back-up. There were a few matches at the GP that I found myself tutoring Iona up first, but most of the matches I played were aggro-based and I wanted Elesh. I do view Iona as a key component of the deck, though, since she locks up a good deal of matchups.
3x Liliana of the Veil
40x Legacy Duals
20x Modern Fetches
4x DRS
4x Dark Confidant
4x LED
4x Force of Will
4x Wasteland
4x Snapcaster Mage
I've played some Legacy before, but always with Teir 2 decks like Candelabra-less High Tide and Mono-White Stax. I thought I would like to get into Storm, which I've played variations of before, but it doesn't seem as fun to me as it used to. I don't have a tight budget, but I am looking to cut back my Magic spending a bit. Any suggestions for what I should start trying to work towards?
Why not run a third wrath? Are you forgoing the gifts for wrath package?