After thinking and chatting about it some, I think we need some more good targets to really make it sing.
Both Channel and Tinker also require very specific cards that are different than the good ramp and reanimate targets I currently run. With limited room for cards, the less narrow ones are preferable for me.
Traditionally, the good cheat targets are a combination of fast clock, hard to interact with, affects the board and/or game warping effect. Preferably something that can also catch you up when behind. Most Channel/Tinker targets only have one of these characteristics.
Having said that, a Walking Skyscraper DOES kill quite fast if it's unanswered and Sphinx of the Guildpact IS hard to interact with.
Another thing I notice with cheating archetypes is that they sit on this weird plane of either being too good for the cube or not good enough.
Looks like a fine combo if your cube wants the pieces outside of the combo, which I think you want for your 3 card combos anyway. I have no trouble imagining such a cube exists though.
Reading back this thread gives me a mighty urge to test Leonin Relic-Warder in my travel cube. Maybe Monument+Skyfisher. I like having some combo element in a high powered cube.
I think the fact that Plundering Barbarian doesn't get a lot of respect might've been a clue about Rec Sage as well. I have to admit I hadn't given the Barbarian much thought..
The point about Reclamation Sage stuck with me for a couple of days, to the point where I'm considering cutting it after all. I guess I kept it because of the simple etb, single green and Elf type.
I've never really tried Kappa Tech-Wrecker because it looked kind of unreliable, but I think I overlooked that it's also just a 1/3 deathtouch for 2 (which is fine). I also overlooked that it's a pretty cool card for a blink deck not only because it does the ninja thing, but also because it resets when you blink it itself.
In the end I think I'll hold off on Samwise for now. White probably has enough for tricks and small reanimation (and blink, for that matter) that I don't really need a situational one. The idea of combining Crystal Shard with Sam to power up the ring sounds super fun, and I think the card will see play in decks, I'm just not sure if it deserves a slot in my 180 cube. Maybe if I expand again down the road.
Thraben Inspector #2 is obviously great if you don't mind running functional reprints and don't want to run doubles.
Demand Answers is a step up from similar cards, but I'm not sure if Experimental Synthesizer- and Light up the Stage-type cards have replaced the Thrill of Possibility-type cards anyway. Sacrificing an artifact is pretty great though, nowadays we're pretty close to having incidental artifacts and artifact synergies in peasant cubes without even trying.
The investigate cards so far seem like fine to good alternatives for similar cards, depending on the slant of the cube.
It's a fun card for sure (I play it in my old frame peasant). Every reanimate or raise dead also gives you the option to return a non-creature if you have Xiahou Dun in the grave. Victimize is its best friend for a lot of value. It is slow though. I'm guessing power creep makes it even riskier/slower than years ago, combined with the fact that it's not a cheap card.
Yes, plus the fact that it's quite finicky for such little effect. It's different from monarch/initiative in that way, with tempt (in cube) being a small effect tacked onto something instead of being the main reason to run something.
As for Samwise, my thoughts for inclusion are:
- The effect (apart from tempt) looks interesting enough that I want to try it. Both as a 1-shot and as a tool in blink or sac/reanimate value decks.
- Speaking of these kinds of decks, I imagine my 180 cube gets around the frequency issue slightly by making it easier to find some blink/reanimate to form a game plan around pushing the ring. This would give those decks a slightly different game plan to assemble, which is fun.
I'm going back and forth on these mechanics, myself. I dislike the esthetics, but enjoy the play patterns and power level. Currently contemplating putting Palace Jailer back in and adding Feywild Caretaker because they fit the power level of the cube. Might throw in tempt as well while I'm at it.
Clarion Spirit - On average at least one trigger per game. Most often this gets cast t3+spell or later. It has the side benefit of giving white a slice of the spells-matter pie, together with Seeker of the Way. This makes for some cool RW spells/tokens decks or Uw spell based tempo.
Riftwing Cloudskate - I still like this. The suspend is such a fun mini game where you plan for a big swing turn.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel - I like it as a 1-card archetype (mono black devotion). Overall it's less efficient than other options, but it has a very high ceiling.
Sling-Gang Lieutenant - again, I like this as a small archetype. I enjoy cards that give certain archetypes a little spin and/or changes evaluations of other cards slightly. It's decent in any token/sac deck though.
Bloodchief's Thirst - maybe this is a good type to rank some day. I consider this in the higher ranks of the black removal spells, and Fatal Push as well. Maybe it's because my environment is on the more efficient side, but 1 mana to kill a high % of threats is super valuable to me.
Bone Shards, Village Rites, Deadly Dispute - I consider these removal/draw spells with bonus of being enablers for different archetypes. Good stuff that's also glue.
I run 3 at 180 (Artist, Konrad, Morbid) with some red and rakdos friends as well. I've seen rakdos sac mentioned as one of the top decks in most peasant cubes, sometimes on the oppressive side, so being careful about including all of them seems right.
Both Channel and Tinker also require very specific cards that are different than the good ramp and reanimate targets I currently run. With limited room for cards, the less narrow ones are preferable for me.
Traditionally, the good cheat targets are a combination of fast clock, hard to interact with, affects the board and/or game warping effect. Preferably something that can also catch you up when behind. Most Channel/Tinker targets only have one of these characteristics.
Having said that, a Walking Skyscraper DOES kill quite fast if it's unanswered and Sphinx of the Guildpact IS hard to interact with.
Another thing I notice with cheating archetypes is that they sit on this weird plane of either being too good for the cube or not good enough.
Reading back this thread gives me a mighty urge to test Leonin Relic-Warder in my travel cube. Maybe Monument+Skyfisher. I like having some combo element in a high powered cube.
I've never really tried Kappa Tech-Wrecker because it looked kind of unreliable, but I think I overlooked that it's also just a 1/3 deathtouch for 2 (which is fine). I also overlooked that it's a pretty cool card for a blink deck not only because it does the ninja thing, but also because it resets when you blink it itself.
Well I guess I have to try it as well.
On a related note.. I haven't tried Rosie Cotton of South Lane either in my 180 cube and I probably should.
Demand Answers is a step up from similar cards, but I'm not sure if Experimental Synthesizer- and Light up the Stage-type cards have replaced the Thrill of Possibility-type cards anyway. Sacrificing an artifact is pretty great though, nowadays we're pretty close to having incidental artifacts and artifact synergies in peasant cubes without even trying.
The investigate cards so far seem like fine to good alternatives for similar cards, depending on the slant of the cube.
It's a fun card for sure (I play it in my old frame peasant). Every reanimate or raise dead also gives you the option to return a non-creature if you have Xiahou Dun in the grave. Victimize is its best friend for a lot of value. It is slow though. I'm guessing power creep makes it even riskier/slower than years ago, combined with the fact that it's not a cheap card.
As for Samwise, my thoughts for inclusion are:
- The effect (apart from tempt) looks interesting enough that I want to try it. Both as a 1-shot and as a tool in blink or sac/reanimate value decks.
- Speaking of these kinds of decks, I imagine my 180 cube gets around the frequency issue slightly by making it easier to find some blink/reanimate to form a game plan around pushing the ring. This would give those decks a slightly different game plan to assemble, which is fun.
I'm going back and forth on these mechanics, myself. I dislike the esthetics, but enjoy the play patterns and power level. Currently contemplating putting Palace Jailer back in and adding Feywild Caretaker because they fit the power level of the cube. Might throw in tempt as well while I'm at it.
Samwise the Stouthearted looks pretty good if you can stomach the additional game piece.
Clarion Spirit - On average at least one trigger per game. Most often this gets cast t3+spell or later. It has the side benefit of giving white a slice of the spells-matter pie, together with Seeker of the Way. This makes for some cool RW spells/tokens decks or Uw spell based tempo.
Riftwing Cloudskate - I still like this. The suspend is such a fun mini game where you plan for a big swing turn.
Lord Skitter's Butcher - No experience
Gray Merchant of Asphodel - I like it as a 1-card archetype (mono black devotion). Overall it's less efficient than other options, but it has a very high ceiling.
Sling-Gang Lieutenant - again, I like this as a small archetype. I enjoy cards that give certain archetypes a little spin and/or changes evaluations of other cards slightly. It's decent in any token/sac deck though.
Troll of Khazad-dûm - love it, great card. Especially with DMU duals!
Bloodchief's Thirst - maybe this is a good type to rank some day. I consider this in the higher ranks of the black removal spells, and Fatal Push as well. Maybe it's because my environment is on the more efficient side, but 1 mana to kill a high % of threats is super valuable to me.
Bone Shards, Village Rites, Deadly Dispute - I consider these removal/draw spells with bonus of being enablers for different archetypes. Good stuff that's also glue.
The Eldest Reborn - no experience
I run 3 at 180 (Artist, Konrad, Morbid) with some red and rakdos friends as well. I've seen rakdos sac mentioned as one of the top decks in most peasant cubes, sometimes on the oppressive side, so being careful about including all of them seems right.
Hot Springs seems better unless you want another persist combo enabler. I'm a fan of these batching mechanics