This is the worst reason ever to play a card. If the lords and warchiefs are what are important for him to have on the board (which they probably will be), a smart player will take them out.
Well, I'd say drawing free cards is the MAIN reason to play him, and I think that's still a good enough reason to fall back on. The simple fact is this deck has a lot of creatures that aren't particularly good on their own. The opponent can kill your Undead Warchief and then ignore your Withered Wretch. Having more creatures that are actually good on their own forces opponents to make more difficult decisions on how to use removal.
And if you're going to leave a Bob sit there and draw me cards so you can save your Mortify for my Lord of the Undead, I'm happy to play against you.
Sorry but I don't play bob, if this was a deck that was all 1cc and 2cc then I would add him but its not.
It very nearly would be if you cut the Twisted Abomination. Don't be afraid of life loss. Between his own ability to swing for two and the extra cards he'll draw you he'll deal more damage to the opponent than he will to you. He can also draw fire away from your lords and warchiefs.
Breaking Dovescape requires X spells, and Demonfire is the best one of all since it can be uncounterable. If you happen to be "hellbent", you get both the effect of Demonfire and the bird tokens from Dovescape.
Another reason to consider cutting Twisted Abomination is that it makes Dark Confidant much safer to play, and this is exactly the sort of deck to put him in. Remember, not every single creature in your Zombie deck has to be a zombie. Especially if he gives you free cards.
Wow, okay. With Gelly, shock kills savannah lions and kird ape, or a BTS, or a watchwolf and 1 to the dome. Solifuge dies to a shock, and anything else. Solifuge is NOT guaranteed to kill anything. I kird ape and watchwolf kill it outright with no trample damage. A shock kills it, heck, a lantern kami, or even a frostling kills it. Sulifuge is not good in this deck, you get no advantage whatsoever with it. You might get in 4 damage, but for the same cost, I could get in 11 damage, 1 shock and two volcanic hammers with a gelly. Remeber, solifuge and gelly have the same defence.
No! Solifuge and Gelectrode do not have the same defense! Something that many people seem to overlook is that SOLIFUGE IS UNTARGETABLE! Solifuge does not to to a Shock, Putrefy, Mortify, Jitte counters, and it certainly doesn't die to a Gelectrode. Frostling can block and kill it, but you're still getting a 1 for 1 with three damage to the player. If it's blocked with a Kird Ape and a Watchwolf, you're still guaranteed a 1 for 1, which is all you're getting out of the fragile Shock + Gelectrode combo.
What's more, a turn 4 Solifuge would eat this deck alive. Until you can get a Firebird out, nothing in this deck can touch it except for putting a (doomed) Wee Dragonauts in front of it.
As for knowing whether to play the Gelectrode or not by turn 4, that's not a very good strategy. If you know they'll be able to deal with it, just don't play it? That means it's just a dead card. Why have it? Against any decent deck a Gelectrode is going to die before it even gets over summoning sickness. In the unlikely event that you do manage to untap with one in play, it still requires a fistfull of instants and sorceries to do anything. Obviously this deck is made to hope to have that, but it isn't always going to happen. If a game goes long and you're in topdeck mode, a Gelectrode is very nearly a dead draw, while a Solifuge could win you the game. There are far too many circumstances where the Gelectrode is just a waste of a card. The best thing to be said for it is that it draws fire away from the Dragonauts, but since it dies to so many things that couldn't kill the Dragonauts anyway that still isn't saying much.
How can Solifuge be crap against an aggro deck compared to the Gelectrode? With anything less than a dragon the Solifuge is almost guaranteed to take out at least one creature and likely do some damage to the player beyond it. It takes a lot of work to get that much damage out of a Gelectrode, which is also very likely to die to something like a Frostling or a sole Jitte counter in said aggro matchup.
You get all of the instant/sorcery abuse you need out of the Wee Dragonauts. At best Gelectrode could come in from the sideboard once you've established that you're playing a deck that, incomprehensibly, has no way to deal with it. If you're managing to consistently get four or more damage out of each Gelectrode you play, I'd question the quality of the decks you're testing against.
Obviously Char is better than the Solifuge, but there's no reason you can't have both. I just question whether Gelectrode is better to include than the Solifuge. It's very frail. Unless the opponent has instant speed mass removal like Hideous Laughter, the Solifuge is guaranteed to do at least four damage to something. Gelectrode is so easily killed that it can frequently be three mana to basically do nothing. If they don't have an answer for it it's certainly powerful over the long haul, but it's very easily answered.
That bit of confusion aside, I'm still really surprised not to see more consideration for Giant Solifuge, especially after PT Hawaii. I just found this thread today. I'd been playing with a deck that's almost exactly like what's being discussed here except it has 4x Solifuges instead of Gelectrodes. Don't let the one toughness fool you, they're harder to deal with than you think. They almost always mean at least a 1 for 1 with maybe a little damage sprinkling through, and they can be almost like a reusable Char. You will frequently get 2 for 1's with this card if it lives past its first turn because if the opponent doesn't hold back to creatures to block it you'll often be able to bounce or burn one and swing through with the Solifuge. If they hold back two but only block with one, you can bounce or burn that one and his damage still goes through to the player because it has trample.
Another way to think of it. How is this UR deck going to cope with a Solifuge? Most builds I see here have only one play to get rid of one, throwing a Dragonauts in front of it.
I really recommend giving it a try. Of course, I, too, will have to give Gelectrodes a try.
Honestly, playtest before you speak - moreover, post your deck idea in the right archetype thread.
When I posted that message I just came from playing the two decks against each other more than ten times. In those matches, Critical Mass won once.
I'm not saying that the GW deck is better. I didn't post it in this thread for advice on it. As I said in my post, I was asking for advice on how to beat the GW deck with CM. I'm saying that, in my experience, fast early tramplers are very hard for this deck to deal with. Also, with the amount of artifact removal I found it difficult to deal with much more than the Jitte.
As I said in my post, Critical Mass is definitely better against a wider range of matchups than the GW deck, especially when it comes to MUC. That said, I posted a deck that, in my testing, Critical Mass has had a very hard time with and asked what sideboarding decisions would be best.
Please read the post before you speak and don't just skip to the decklist.
I've been playtesting Flores' original build and I just can't get it to work. I've been trying to decide whether to play this (a couple of Melokus and Vinelashers finally arrived in the mail today) or my GW Beats deck at FNM tomorrow and my GW deck beats it pretty consistently. I'm just testing against myself in Workstation, so I'm guessing that I'm just not using it right.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not bragging about my GW deck. I think that this deck is better against a much wider field than mine is, but my GW deck is pretty consistently swinging with a 3/3 equipped with an O-Naginata or a Jitte on turn 3, and Critical Mass seems to have a hard time coping with that. I think it's the all the trample that hurts the most. Chump-blocking illusions and Elders are pretty useless against it. (The GW deck I keep talking about, by the way, is basically 3/3s and 4/4s with Jittes and O-Naginatas.)
I think that this deck definitely needs some more artifact removal at least. I think that maybe he was figuring Jittes to be the only thing he'd need to worry about. When I stick Pithing Needles in Meloku and the top, it's pretty much like sticking a fork in this deck. It's done.
So how would you sideboard against something like this?
Keiga is pretty hard to deal with for this deck, but Bathe in Light and Otherworldly Journey can keep him from getting anything in an exchange. Needles stop Meloku. Generally if I've had a big Kudzu late in the game I've had to keep it back to block because it's the only thing that can survive a Loxodon Hierarch with a couple of O-Naginatas.
I just Googled something like "Bryan Lynch 2005 Champs" or something like that. I had a hard time tracking that down. Since it wasn't on an "official" site I thought I should site the source just in case. Seems funny that they don't have MA up on mtg.com. I can see how Azami could give you a sort of second wind late in the game, but by the time you can put her down with proper backup it seems like you could just as well put down a threat. She's awfully frail. She'll get you a few cards even if she gets killed, but she's the same cost and speed as Tidings which isn't played even though it assures you four cards.
She can certainly be very beneficial, but I don't think that she's an auto-include.
I'd heard some debate over the merits of Flores' NY deck compared to Brian Lynch's MA deck, but I didn't see Lynch's deck posted. For some reason, MA results aren't on the Wizards site. I found this list on newenglandmagicgroup.com:
1st - Brian Lynch
2 Keiga, the Tide Star
2 Rewind
4 Jushi Apprentice
3 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
4 Hinder
4 Mana Leak
3 Remand
3 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
3 Disrupting Shoal
4 Rend Flesh
3 Pithing Needle
11 Island
4 Quicksand
4 Underground River
4 Watery Grave
1 Minamo, School at Water’s Edge
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
Think about it. It basically means "B: Block any one creature" every turn. And it's black, so it's immune to Fear and a lot of black removal. And later on you can enchant or equip him and swing with impunity. Don't underestimate the little guy. "Size matters not."
I never was able to make this idea work consistently. The draw afterward is too unreliable. You can even end up killing yourself with mana burn if you're particularly unlucky. I'm going to try it with Hikari, Twilight Guardian and Otherworldly Journey to help make sure that I have something to hit with after the sway. Also, that way you only need to have 12 mana on your sway turn and don't have to worry about burn. Ideally you have Hikari on the board, cast generate 12 mana including 1 white and 2 blue, use Otherworldly Journey to phase out Sachi and phase out Hikari with his Arcane trigger, sway, and then end up more comfortably with a 4/4 flyer and an improved 2/4 Sachi.
Well, I'd say drawing free cards is the MAIN reason to play him, and I think that's still a good enough reason to fall back on. The simple fact is this deck has a lot of creatures that aren't particularly good on their own. The opponent can kill your Undead Warchief and then ignore your Withered Wretch. Having more creatures that are actually good on their own forces opponents to make more difficult decisions on how to use removal.
And if you're going to leave a Bob sit there and draw me cards so you can save your Mortify for my Lord of the Undead, I'm happy to play against you.
It very nearly would be if you cut the Twisted Abomination. Don't be afraid of life loss. Between his own ability to swing for two and the extra cards he'll draw you he'll deal more damage to the opponent than he will to you. He can also draw fire away from your lords and warchiefs.
Remember, you only need one life to win the game.
Breaking Dovescape requires X spells, and Demonfire is the best one of all since it can be uncounterable. If you happen to be "hellbent", you get both the effect of Demonfire and the bird tokens from Dovescape.
Also, the judge in me wants to be sure everyone realizes that putting a creature into play with Braids' ability does not trigger Wild Pair.
No! Solifuge and Gelectrode do not have the same defense! Something that many people seem to overlook is that SOLIFUGE IS UNTARGETABLE! Solifuge does not to to a Shock, Putrefy, Mortify, Jitte counters, and it certainly doesn't die to a Gelectrode. Frostling can block and kill it, but you're still getting a 1 for 1 with three damage to the player. If it's blocked with a Kird Ape and a Watchwolf, you're still guaranteed a 1 for 1, which is all you're getting out of the fragile Shock + Gelectrode combo.
What's more, a turn 4 Solifuge would eat this deck alive. Until you can get a Firebird out, nothing in this deck can touch it except for putting a (doomed) Wee Dragonauts in front of it.
As for knowing whether to play the Gelectrode or not by turn 4, that's not a very good strategy. If you know they'll be able to deal with it, just don't play it? That means it's just a dead card. Why have it? Against any decent deck a Gelectrode is going to die before it even gets over summoning sickness. In the unlikely event that you do manage to untap with one in play, it still requires a fistfull of instants and sorceries to do anything. Obviously this deck is made to hope to have that, but it isn't always going to happen. If a game goes long and you're in topdeck mode, a Gelectrode is very nearly a dead draw, while a Solifuge could win you the game. There are far too many circumstances where the Gelectrode is just a waste of a card. The best thing to be said for it is that it draws fire away from the Dragonauts, but since it dies to so many things that couldn't kill the Dragonauts anyway that still isn't saying much.
You get all of the instant/sorcery abuse you need out of the Wee Dragonauts. At best Gelectrode could come in from the sideboard once you've established that you're playing a deck that, incomprehensibly, has no way to deal with it. If you're managing to consistently get four or more damage out of each Gelectrode you play, I'd question the quality of the decks you're testing against.
Another way to think of it. How is this UR deck going to cope with a Solifuge? Most builds I see here have only one play to get rid of one, throwing a Dragonauts in front of it.
I really recommend giving it a try. Of course, I, too, will have to give Gelectrodes a try.
When I posted that message I just came from playing the two decks against each other more than ten times. In those matches, Critical Mass won once.
I'm not saying that the GW deck is better. I didn't post it in this thread for advice on it. As I said in my post, I was asking for advice on how to beat the GW deck with CM. I'm saying that, in my experience, fast early tramplers are very hard for this deck to deal with. Also, with the amount of artifact removal I found it difficult to deal with much more than the Jitte.
As I said in my post, Critical Mass is definitely better against a wider range of matchups than the GW deck, especially when it comes to MUC. That said, I posted a deck that, in my testing, Critical Mass has had a very hard time with and asked what sideboarding decisions would be best.
Please read the post before you speak and don't just skip to the decklist.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not bragging about my GW deck. I think that this deck is better against a much wider field than mine is, but my GW deck is pretty consistently swinging with a 3/3 equipped with an O-Naginata or a Jitte on turn 3, and Critical Mass seems to have a hard time coping with that. I think it's the all the trample that hurts the most. Chump-blocking illusions and Elders are pretty useless against it. (The GW deck I keep talking about, by the way, is basically 3/3s and 4/4s with Jittes and O-Naginatas.)
I think that this deck definitely needs some more artifact removal at least. I think that maybe he was figuring Jittes to be the only thing he'd need to worry about. When I stick Pithing Needles in Meloku and the top, it's pretty much like sticking a fork in this deck. It's done.
So how would you sideboard against something like this?
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
2 [9E] Brushland
12 [9E] Forest (3)
7 [CHK] Plains (1)
3 [RAV] Temple Garden
// Creatures
2 [RAV] Birds of Paradise
4 [BOK] Gnarled Mass
3 [9E] Llanowar Elves
3 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
1 [9E] Trained Armodon
4 [RAV] Watchwolf
1 [RAV] Gleancrawler
2 [SOK] Arashi, the Sky Asunder
// Spells
2 [RAV] Bathe in Light
2 [9E] Might of Oaks
4 [SOK] O-Naginata
4 [CHK] Otherworldly Journey
4 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [RAV] Bathe in Light
SB: 4 [9E] Naturalize
SB: 3 [9E] Needle Storm
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [9E] Reclaim
SB: 2 [BOK] Iwamori of the Open Fist
Keiga is pretty hard to deal with for this deck, but Bathe in Light and Otherworldly Journey can keep him from getting anything in an exchange. Needles stop Meloku. Generally if I've had a big Kudzu late in the game I've had to keep it back to block because it's the only thing that can survive a Loxodon Hierarch with a couple of O-Naginatas.
She can certainly be very beneficial, but I don't think that she's an auto-include.
1st - Brian Lynch
2 Keiga, the Tide Star
2 Rewind
4 Jushi Apprentice
3 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
4 Hinder
4 Mana Leak
3 Remand
3 Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
3 Disrupting Shoal
4 Rend Flesh
3 Pithing Needle
11 Island
4 Quicksand
4 Underground River
4 Watery Grave
1 Minamo, School at Water’s Edge
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
Sideboard
2 Rewind
4 Temporal Adept
2 Execute
4 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Journeyman’s Kite