I have began to test with Liliana, the Last Hope. She is very strong against Aggro and Midrange and can definitely swing a match up. I was initially playing 2 but went up to 3. There are a lot of decks out there that need to get her off the board or she can win on her own. She is best with blockers and removal spells for protection. I really like playing her alongside Jace, Vryn's Prodigy because of their abilities really start to stack up once you get both of them out there. She makes you want to play creature solutions in your sideboard like Spellskite and Fulminator Mage because they can be recurred with her -2. My current build is very low to the ground and includes Majors discard package with a lite counterspell suite. Liliana of the Veil doesn't play well with Grixis in general and I feel Liliana, the Last Hope can bring Grixis back into Tier 1.
The manabase is probaly wrong and the sideboard was just thought up, but I feel the maindeck is solid. 18 lands seem correct for a deck that wants to end the game with 2-4 lands in play and a Simian Spirit Guide in the graveyard. May even be a little much with all the filtering we have. Does Remand seem right or would some combination of Lightning Bolt and Dispel make sense?
@PopeJP, Jester831 Thanks for the quick reply. I can definitely see the justification for playing other cards over Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch in French as opposed to Tiny Leaders. You're rushing to an Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre loop, where as I often just try to play a huge Genesis Hydra turn 3 and win through rushing my opponent.
Do you feel like scry cards like Sage of Epityr and Augury Owl generate more card advantage than a card like Merchant of Secrets? I feel like card slots that draw and discard or scry could be better utilized in most cases. Do you play them to lower the curve? Do you have a target number of cards at each CMC?
@Lemonbuster I hadn't even thought about the Snap/Eternal Witness combo. I will be looking for a way to fit that into my TL deck.
I stop by this thread from time to time to gain perspective on cards I am thinking of for my Tiny Leaders Imperial Animar decklist. A card I play alot of but haven't seen mentioned in the recent lists is Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch. I consider them to be the same card, capable of tapping an opponent's blocker or untapping a land to continue a Glimpse of Nature chain as well as enabling potential Cloudstone Curio combos. It also plays very well with a Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl land. Why are the cards not inlcuded in many French Imperial Animar lists?
Thread has been dead for some time now so I suppose now is a decent time for a tournament report. I've been playing Grixis Delver for the past few months and have played in three PPTQs (30 people average). I made top 8 in the first after losing to Jund. In the second I lost to Nacatl Burn in the last round to miss Top 8. This past weekend I went to Dothan, Alabama to participate in a PPTQ at a store called Fanatix. I have to say the store was very nice and it seemed like all the locals were very hospitable. Here is a brief report on the rounds:
Round 1: Temur Twin Win 2-0(1-0)
I feel like the Twin matchup is pretty easy. Just deploy a threat, if they kill it that is a turn you don’t have to worry about the combo. Once you can drop a Delve creature Temur can’t handle a X/5 with bolts. That is how both games went pretty much. Game 2 on the draw I turn one Serum Visions, turn two double Delver of Secrets. I got blown up with Electrolyze. I still won the game but I will put more attention to the card in the future because of this. I will also reconsider playing Young Pyromancer turn two following a failed delver flip.
Round 2: Grixis Control W 2-1(2-0)
Not the easiest matchup. It was a well-played matchup but to be honest that’s about all I remember.
Round 3: Mardu Tokens L 0-2(2-1)
This guy shows up with his Young Pyromancers and Lingering Souls. Who does he think he is? He beats the crap out me each game after Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize rip my hands to pieces each game. I felt if I had drawn my Izzet Staticaster I might have had a chance. Oh well. It was actually a pretty cool deck. It used a lot of REALLY good cards.
Round 4: Affinity W 2-1(3-1)
Matchup is fine if you draw a Kolaghan's Command. If you have a bunch of do nothing in your hand you might as well mulligan because you need to be able to interact turn two. He had some big Galvanic Blasts which were capable of taking out my delve creatures after blocks. Game two he attacked me with a pair of Blinkmoth Nexuses in an Electrolyze. Lived the dream. I then proceeded to draw all land and died to a do nothing creature with a Cranial Plating. Game three he couldn't get enough damage through before my Young Pyromancer was able to make a ton of blockers and Delver was able to get there.
Round 5: ID(3-1-1)
Top 8: CoCo W 2-1
I lost game one to Collected Company + Eternal Witness. I started to fear it would be like the PPTQ where I lost in the first round to Jund. I focused and got ready for game 2. Game two he plays a Cavern of Souls and another do nothing land and never plays another. Game three was pretty intense. I had the right removal and ended the game attacking with delves, delvers and a pyromancer’s army.
Top 4: Naya Burn W 2-0
Probably the matchup I fear the most. Luckily I was on the play. My opponent lead with a turn 1 Goblin Guide game one. I let him attack and had the bolt after taking that free land off the top. He played a lot of burn cards but couldn’t get me low enough for it to matter. Game two he is on the play a turn 1 Goblin Guide attacks. No land. Turn two he attacks again and again no land. This time I have bolt which gets nullified by a Boros Charm on indestructible. I do not agree with this decision but I’m not a burn player. I bolt again the next turn and finally get it. The game came down to me attacking with a Delver and a Gurmag Angler. We are both under 5 life and he plays Deflecting Palm. Thank goodness I decided to Serum Visions the turn before instead of playing a creature and ripped the Negate I needed to prevent the game being a tie.
Top 2: Merfolk L 1-2
He offers to split prize and play for the invite. Of course I decline because I’m an idiot. If you are ever on the draw and going against a deck you are not 100% sure you are going to win, take the offer. Game 1 here was one of the most intense games I’ve ever played. I play Kolaghan's Command early to kill a Lord of Atlantis EOT in addition to an Æther Vial. He manages to come back pretty well and makes a game of it. I make a decision late to attack with one flipped Delver and a Tasigur. I play another Tasigur with one untapped flipped Delver and legend rule out the tapped one. Had I attacked with the second Delver I would have lost the game. Games two and three were not as much fun. He was on the play and kept a 6 land hand while I kept a desperate 5 card, 1 swamp hand. I retrospect going to four was the right call but live and learn. He destroys me before I get a second land. Game 3 was slightly better but he finished strong. Silvergill Adept was the MVP for him. I managed to put him behind early but continuous 2/1 draw a card and all it takes is an Æther Vial activation. After three of these I could keep up with his threats.
A note is Tasigur and Angler may need to come out in this matchup. A Vendilion Clique side may give you a great way to interact with Æther Vial and provide an alternate plan to the easily bounced delve creatures. What are your thoughts? Anyway a great weekend of magic and again thanks to everyone from Fanatix for being so nice. I’m looking forward to your future PPTQs. Here are some things I am thinking about after this tournament.
Some very interesting decisions in card choices.
Mainboard:
4 Snapcaster Mage. It seems more and more appropriate to run 4. He is almost always good and having two in your opening hand is not the end of the world.
2 Young Pyromancer. This card has been highly debated and this deck choose to run two. I would imagine this is where the Snapcaster came from.
4 Remand. I think maybe we need to take another look at Remand. I can see dropping Delver of Secrets and having Remand to stop whatever they're doing in an attempt to keep your opponent from interacting. Not great against cheap removal but good enough to slow your opponent and let your cheap and efficient do it's thing.
3 Kolaghan's Command. Taking value to the max. I have seen individual's run 2 Kolaghan's Command and an Electrolyze so I guess this isn't much of a stretch.
4 Island. This individual forewent the Darkslick Shores and included a 19th land. Great synergy with the Blood Moons in the sideboard.
Sideboard:
2 Bitterblossom. Best in grindy matchups, and I can see it being fine in the mirror.
2 Shattering Spree. There are several ways to go here. This way seems fine. Pretty good with Snapcaster.
1 Tribute to Hunger. Never seen this in this deck before. Seems good against alot of things that can generally be trouble. I don't know if it's the right play against Mono-Red.
I'm interested to hear thoughts on card choices. I wish we had the luxury of hearing from CHIRALANE, but I'm not sure if he pays attention to the thread. I'm not familiar with MTGO tournaments but it seems like a larger tournament and I'm sure winning it was no small feat.
I was watching a streamer play grixis the other night and they did work with Darkblast. Has anyone tried this? I could see how it could be great in our 75. Don't know how good it is in the main, but I can see it destroying Affinity, Elves, Infect. Think about it, a spell that flips delver, costs 1, and can be recurred at the cost of making Tasigur, Angler and Murderous Cut cheaper. What do you think?
@Charlieguide I wonder alot of the same. I am new to the deck myself and upon initially looking at the deck I am curious what the plan against Drown in Sorrow is.
Could Swan Song be a useful sideboard card against Abzan decks? I noticed it's not in the list put out by Yuuya Watanabe or any of the competitive lists run lately. Is the 2/2 flier too much to overcome?
What is your opinion on Eldrazi Monument > Akromas Memorial? I think the indestructibility for your animated lands could be beneficial and flying can get those 5/3 tokens through to the target.
@gelf Hi, thanks for writing this primer. It is clear you've put a ton of work into this and I want to thank you for the detailed analysis and great use of links and formatting. It has not gone unnoticed. On to why I'm really here...
I really enjoy your list and am interested in what it looks like now. I'm particularly interested in how Chief Engineer has worked and the cuts you have made for the newest additions. I searched through the thread but have had trouble coming across a recent posting of the list.
I really like your list but I do see some cards that are alittle out of place.
Cyclonic Rift (Slightly Underwhelming for a bounce. I think I would prefer a recursive bounce like Capsize.) Ghostway (Too narrow in application. Good against a wrath or as a bomb card but early and mid game is less good.) Wargate (7 mana for a 4 drop at sorcery speed. Thanks Obama.) Sundial of the Infinite (I understand what you're going for, but like Ghostway just too narrow.) Ixidron (You gonna make some people mad. I foresee a bunch of 2/2s revolting.) Seedborn Muse (You already have Prophet of Kruphix. Having both of these cards at the same time means one is a dead card.) Mnemonic Wall (Archaeomancer is better)
Also you could use a bomb. Not necessarily something unfair but something that has the potential to win the game. Avenger of Zendikar, Akroma, Angel of Wrath or something similar would do.
Spike Weaver is an interesting card. I am interested to see how that works out for you.
Take all of these comments with a grain of salt, I'm bad,
@Kamahl the one problem I do have with MUGGING is that it does not allow you to target players. Yes it has multiple applications as a burn spell and as a way to get damage through it does not have the ability to wear down on your opponents or their potential planeswalkers. I do agree with you that Thundermaw Hellkite will probably be the first piece from our traditional build to go but I feel it will be in favor of Aurelia, the Warleader. She is game over with Geist of Saint Traft. She also has a much better Cavern of Souls interaction with Restoration Angel. As far as Aurelia's Fury goes, I don't know what to think. Seems awesome. The ability to be both offensive and defensive is something I really admire in a card. I think I will be testing it as a one of MD. I will be at SCG Atlanta so I hope UWR Mid does as well for me as it has at my local shop the past few months. The last card to incorporate is Boros Charm. I like it as a 1-2 of MD. It's not removal. That is a mode I wish I could've gotten. Anyways sorry for my rambling and lack of card tags. I'm on a cell phone right now. I look forward to hearing my favorite threads opinions on the upcoming changes to this powerful deck.
I also considered this deck but took a slightly different approach. Spelltwine is the way to play this spell but I think you want to play it with a Thragtusk of the field. Then just attack with the token to win the game. SpelltwineWorldfire with a burn spell from their graveyard. I think you want to have Goblin Electromancer in this deck to allow you to accelerate into a possible turn 4-5 Spelltwine. That said here is my working list.
I dont know about everyone else but right now I feel like UWR is the way to go. Flash may seem smoother but in the end Cavern of Souls is a thing. Right now the three largest cards are Thragtusk, Falkenrath Aristocrat, Sphinx's Revelation. You need to account for these and the decks that utilize them. I feel UWR is in a better position mainly because of what Searing Spear, Pillar of Flame and Izzet Staticaster bring to the table. Good luck in the tournament though. Let us know how you did.
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Artifacts
4 Brain in a Jar
Instants
4 Izzet Charm
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Remand
Sorceries
4 Breaking // Entering
4 Faithless Looting
4 Serum Visions
2 Thoughtseize
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Painful Truths
2 Spellskite
2 Wear // Tear
The manabase is probaly wrong and the sideboard was just thought up, but I feel the maindeck is solid. 18 lands seem correct for a deck that wants to end the game with 2-4 lands in play and a Simian Spirit Guide in the graveyard. May even be a little much with all the filtering we have. Does Remand seem right or would some combination of Lightning Bolt and Dispel make sense?
Do you feel like scry cards like Sage of Epityr and Augury Owl generate more card advantage than a card like Merchant of Secrets? I feel like card slots that draw and discard or scry could be better utilized in most cases. Do you play them to lower the curve? Do you have a target number of cards at each CMC?
@Lemonbuster I hadn't even thought about the Snap/Eternal Witness combo. I will be looking for a way to fit that into my TL deck.
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Young Pyromancer
Spells
1 Electrolyze
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mana Leak
1 Murderous Cut
2 Remand
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
2 Spellskite
2 Vampiric Link
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Flashfreeze
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Negate
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Rending Volley
1 Vandalblast
Thread has been dead for some time now so I suppose now is a decent time for a tournament report. I've been playing Grixis Delver for the past few months and have played in three PPTQs (30 people average). I made top 8 in the first after losing to Jund. In the second I lost to Nacatl Burn in the last round to miss Top 8. This past weekend I went to Dothan, Alabama to participate in a PPTQ at a store called Fanatix. I have to say the store was very nice and it seemed like all the locals were very hospitable. Here is a brief report on the rounds:
Round 1: Temur Twin Win 2-0(1-0)
I feel like the Twin matchup is pretty easy. Just deploy a threat, if they kill it that is a turn you don’t have to worry about the combo. Once you can drop a Delve creature Temur can’t handle a X/5 with bolts. That is how both games went pretty much. Game 2 on the draw I turn one Serum Visions, turn two double Delver of Secrets. I got blown up with Electrolyze. I still won the game but I will put more attention to the card in the future because of this. I will also reconsider playing Young Pyromancer turn two following a failed delver flip.
Round 2: Grixis Control W 2-1(2-0)
Not the easiest matchup. It was a well-played matchup but to be honest that’s about all I remember.
Round 3: Mardu Tokens L 0-2(2-1)
This guy shows up with his Young Pyromancers and Lingering Souls. Who does he think he is? He beats the crap out me each game after Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize rip my hands to pieces each game. I felt if I had drawn my Izzet Staticaster I might have had a chance. Oh well. It was actually a pretty cool deck. It used a lot of REALLY good cards.
Round 4: Affinity W 2-1(3-1)
Matchup is fine if you draw a Kolaghan's Command. If you have a bunch of do nothing in your hand you might as well mulligan because you need to be able to interact turn two. He had some big Galvanic Blasts which were capable of taking out my delve creatures after blocks. Game two he attacked me with a pair of Blinkmoth Nexuses in an Electrolyze. Lived the dream. I then proceeded to draw all land and died to a do nothing creature with a Cranial Plating. Game three he couldn't get enough damage through before my Young Pyromancer was able to make a ton of blockers and Delver was able to get there.
Round 5: ID(3-1-1)
Top 8: CoCo W 2-1
I lost game one to Collected Company + Eternal Witness. I started to fear it would be like the PPTQ where I lost in the first round to Jund. I focused and got ready for game 2. Game two he plays a Cavern of Souls and another do nothing land and never plays another. Game three was pretty intense. I had the right removal and ended the game attacking with delves, delvers and a pyromancer’s army.
Top 4: Naya Burn W 2-0
Probably the matchup I fear the most. Luckily I was on the play. My opponent lead with a turn 1 Goblin Guide game one. I let him attack and had the bolt after taking that free land off the top. He played a lot of burn cards but couldn’t get me low enough for it to matter. Game two he is on the play a turn 1 Goblin Guide attacks. No land. Turn two he attacks again and again no land. This time I have bolt which gets nullified by a Boros Charm on indestructible. I do not agree with this decision but I’m not a burn player. I bolt again the next turn and finally get it. The game came down to me attacking with a Delver and a Gurmag Angler. We are both under 5 life and he plays Deflecting Palm. Thank goodness I decided to Serum Visions the turn before instead of playing a creature and ripped the Negate I needed to prevent the game being a tie.
Top 2: Merfolk L 1-2
He offers to split prize and play for the invite. Of course I decline because I’m an idiot. If you are ever on the draw and going against a deck you are not 100% sure you are going to win, take the offer. Game 1 here was one of the most intense games I’ve ever played. I play Kolaghan's Command early to kill a Lord of Atlantis EOT in addition to an Æther Vial. He manages to come back pretty well and makes a game of it. I make a decision late to attack with one flipped Delver and a Tasigur. I play another Tasigur with one untapped flipped Delver and legend rule out the tapped one. Had I attacked with the second Delver I would have lost the game. Games two and three were not as much fun. He was on the play and kept a 6 land hand while I kept a desperate 5 card, 1 swamp hand. I retrospect going to four was the right call but live and learn. He destroys me before I get a second land. Game 3 was slightly better but he finished strong. Silvergill Adept was the MVP for him. I managed to put him behind early but continuous 2/1 draw a card and all it takes is an Æther Vial activation. After three of these I could keep up with his threats.
A note is Tasigur and Angler may need to come out in this matchup. A Vendilion Clique side may give you a great way to interact with Æther Vial and provide an alternate plan to the easily bounced delve creatures. What are your thoughts? Anyway a great weekend of magic and again thanks to everyone from Fanatix for being so nice. I’m looking forward to your future PPTQs. Here are some things I am thinking about after this tournament.
SB + Vendilion Clique
MD – Gitaxian Probe
MD + Inquisition of Kozilek
MD + Vapor Snag
MD + Forked Bolt
SB + Bitterblossom
Editted for Formatting and Link Correction
1 Blood Crypt
4 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Young Pyromancer
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
Sorceries (8)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Bitterblossom
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Dragon's Claw
1 Flashfreeze
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Negate
2 Rending Volley
2 Shattering Spree
1 Tribute to Hunger
Some very interesting decisions in card choices.
Mainboard:
Sideboard:
Noticeable Exclusions:
I'm interested to hear thoughts on card choices. I wish we had the luxury of hearing from CHIRALANE, but I'm not sure if he pays attention to the thread. I'm not familiar with MTGO tournaments but it seems like a larger tournament and I'm sure winning it was no small feat.
My opponent casts Wild Slash targeting my Monastery Mentor.
In response I cast Wild Slash targeting my opponent. Prowess triggers, token triggers.
Does the initial Break Through the Line activated ability lose its target due to Monastery Mentor becoming a 3/3?
Could Swan Song be a useful sideboard card against Abzan decks? I noticed it's not in the list put out by Yuuya Watanabe or any of the competitive lists run lately. Is the 2/2 flier too much to overcome?
I really enjoy your list and am interested in what it looks like now. I'm particularly interested in how Chief Engineer has worked and the cuts you have made for the newest additions. I searched through the thread but have had trouble coming across a recent posting of the list.
I really like your list but I do see some cards that are alittle out of place.
Cyclonic Rift (Slightly Underwhelming for a bounce. I think I would prefer a recursive bounce like Capsize.)
Ghostway (Too narrow in application. Good against a wrath or as a bomb card but early and mid game is less good.)
Wargate (7 mana for a 4 drop at sorcery speed. Thanks Obama.)
Sundial of the Infinite (I understand what you're going for, but like Ghostway just too narrow.)
Ixidron (You gonna make some people mad. I foresee a bunch of 2/2s revolting.)
Seedborn Muse (You already have Prophet of Kruphix. Having both of these cards at the same time means one is a dead card.)
Mnemonic Wall (Archaeomancer is better)
Capsize (Better than Cyclonic Rift.)
Archaeomancer (Mnemonic Wall is worse.)
Chord of Calling (Instant Speed and convoke, WOW.)
Slithermuse (Abuse that evoke ability. Blink it with the ability on the stack and draw some cards bb.)
Also you could use a bomb. Not necessarily something unfair but something that has the potential to win the game. Avenger of Zendikar, Akroma, Angel of Wrath or something similar would do.
Spike Weaver is an interesting card. I am interested to see how that works out for you.
Take all of these comments with a grain of salt, I'm bad,
aqualog
I also considered this deck but took a slightly different approach. Spelltwine is the way to play this spell but I think you want to play it with a Thragtusk of the field. Then just attack with the token to win the game. Spelltwine Worldfire with a burn spell from their graveyard. I think you want to have Goblin Electromancer in this deck to allow you to accelerate into a possible turn 4-5 Spelltwine. That said here is my working list.
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Thragtusk
[24 Spells]
4 Tracker's Instinct
3 Spelltwine
4 Farseek
3 Worldfire
4 Faithless Looting
2 Forbidden Alchemy
4 Mulch
4 Steam Vents
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Rootbound Crag
3 Sulfur Falls
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
No sideboard yet. Want to finish the maindeck. Any thoughts?