MTG Salvation

Quote from Rhand »

I can’t make up my mind about which is better, MC or MU.
If you ask me a different day, my answer will be different.
I am playing games both on MC and in a separate community on MU. I have the idea that MC being small actually will work against keeping our own identity because it will turn into a merge automatically. While MU is so large that being a separate entity seems to actually work. With some influx from the main site. At least that is what I see happening with CfC there.
MC in general is the nicer community though so if we do end up getting swallowed up, I prefer having that there over MU bigtime.
And it has Osie.

(Although Thingyman is yummie eye candy - almost as cute as Sloth)

I will follow whatever we decide.

Obviously a bit of bias but MU's partner community section has always seemed sorta... you get out what you put into it, I guess? The site itself is obviously better than any other on features, but the partner communities didn't seem to have gained much in the way of players from being mixed with MU. Maybe that's gotten better, dunno.

MC is very low activity at the moment and in that vein could end up similarly, but we can pretty much make anything happen in some form or other on the technical side of things and the bigger pressure at that point is recruitment, something which I'm not convinced is going to be a non-issue for the visitor communities. There's a little bit of a question on funding past 2022, but if there's activity there, there's definitely more ability to make that happen. The numbers aren't huge; without steady updates (which likely aren't super necessary at this point), they don't need to be higher than an average of about $150 per year, but that's big enough that it's easier to happen with more people. If we have long phase games, we may also be able to pull players from the other long phase Xenforo-based site, with which at least a couple of us are already familiar.

Quote from Grapefruit21 »

My game took a very long time to fill and only eventually filled through a massive recruiting effort by myself and Osie. And that can be exhausting for a host.

To say the least.

Rules:

Rather than write out a list of rules I'm just going to put this simply. This is a social multiplayer game. The setup itself has artistic intention, and the game is intended for players to enjoy. You can contribute to that enjoyment in the spirit of the social contract or not. I've seen more than enough angleshooting, cheating, flaming, gamethrowing, inactivity, overly-aggressive hostility, out-of-game violations, and other toxicity for a lifetime.

If you can't refrain from toxic behaviour, don't play. There are 15-year-old mafia players who have played in dozens of games in their year or two of experience playing and have never been toxic. If you are less mature than a 15-year-old, you should rethink your life choices. In that vein, my patience for forced replacements is close to an all-time low. If I am forced to replace people because they aren't playing, there may be blood. You have been warned.

If you don't know whether or not something is okay, then talk to me. If you aren't 100% confident that you understand your role PM, then talk to me. If you have to take a break for a bit or replace out for any reason, then talk to me. If you just want someone to talk to, then talk to me. I'm a friendly person (most of the time) and I enjoy answering questions and general chatting.

Setup-Specific Info:

1. This is not a bastard game.
2. Every player has a role; there are no vanillas.
3. Flavour is not alignment indicative. Even more so than usual, flavour-gaming and setup-gaming have negative strategic value, though you'll get Osie to laugh at you.
4. If a player reaches a majority of votes before the Melt deadline, their snow will be melted.
5. Melt deadlines will be 268 hours long. (12 days.) Those deadlines may be shortened at host discretion (probably to 120 hours).
6. Night phases will be 48 hours long. Night actions will be due 24 hours into the Night phase. Night actions submitted after that point may be accepted on a case by case basis.
7. On deaths, flavours and alignments will be revealed, but not roles.
8. Mafia may chat at any time.
9. Roles may exist which may present false information to other roles. These will never affect role reveals or the original role PM. Acceptable roles include but are not limited to variations on Millers, Godfathers, Framers, Tailors, Lawyers, Ninjas, and Strongmen.
10. Roles may exist which change a player's target. A player will always learn if their target has been changed, but will not learn of their new target's identity unless they would learn information about their target.

Les neiges de antan (/in, /join, or Join: Username):

1. HeuryAlone
2. Killmatronix
3. Cantripmancer
4. CBangz
5. xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
6. Rhand
7. Aria575
8. Wisp
9. Windward
10. Gorta
11. Marshmallow Marshall
12. Marluxion

Les neiges de demain (/sub, /replace, or Replace: Username):

1. Trisscar
2. Gentleman Johnny
3. Whysper
4. yurkin
5. {Your name here}

Les neiges qui regardent (/spec, /spectate, or Spectate: Username):

1. Killjoy
2. {Your name here}

Quote from s0undfx »

When/why did grip of chaos and planar chaos fall out of favor? Those were some of my favorite cards in the deck but it seems like they got cut.

Grip of Chaos doesn't do enough immediately for its cost for my build. Planar Chaos impedes my own plan too much for not having effective ways to ignore it.

First things first, I would never have made this setup were it not for tomsloger during last year's podcast recording saying "I really want to see your take on a sequel to Janken/RPS." So that's something.

The blind mechanic is something I've explored in the past. It's... not quite ideal for this setup. I do think that having a harsh anti-claim mechanic is reasonable, though results are not as much part of the problem as the role claims themselves, in that vein. It's a concept I may experiment with in the future, but if I do so, I want it to be codified, public, and universal to whatever degree that is doable.

I do think the choice of the hints was me being too clever by halves. They didn't really contribute anything. At the same time, I don't think they particularly hurt things, but definitely were somewhat shaky grounds in terms of trying to put a twist on things. For reference:

• Monty Hall was a TV presenter who opens doors. "A Doorman."
• A doctor who kills is often referred to as "An Angel of Death."
• A packager boxes up their target, preventing them from acting, and "smuggling" them through the night phase.
• A vigilante killer "decides" someone's fate.
• The MMM (Messenger/Medium/Modposter) "manipulates" people with their messages.
• One of the standard alien tropes is that of an alien "observing" the human race.
• The redirector "commands" people to target something else.

I think that despite the way the past two iterations of this game were run, the correct approach to the Janken-style setups is actually as open micros or minis (12 players with an added 4 Town Fruit Vendors and 1 Mafia Fruit Vendor all of whom level up into more reliable fruit vendors). There's much more to it if people know to manipulate results and in what direction, and while I sorta over-designed things intentionally with the possibility of extra nights, it would only be better to compact the "Egg-Chicken-Dinosaur" element of the game (the upgrade levels) if it was played again with 7 players rather than the larger 12. A no-kill N0 would also not be unreasonable in either case.

I might be down to play in another round of this if someone else wanted to run it, but I think unless one of the games I have here is up to run in this community, I'll probably take a break from all mafia play/hosting for a little while after Sayonara finishes on MC and Pika Pika on Smashboards (if that starts). The constant act of pushing to keep games firing and going, both on signups and replacements, has gotten quite tiring to the point that I think that I'm starting to hit a bit of burnout on mafia which has been reflected in small mistakes in my hosting. One or two of those small mistakes here and there might be excusable for large setups, but this was 7 players and I still made a mistake on action handling.

Thanks for playing!

ZeDorkSlipeur has been kicked. They were... Town Monty Hall Cop ("The Doorman")

Town can no longer win, as mafia has reached parity.

Setup Reminder:

Rock beats Scissors, Scissors beats Paper, Paper beats Rock.
Each player chooses rock, paper, or scissors each night, and may target another player. Players may not self-target unless their role states otherwise.
Players learn their alignment and a hint word but not their role or abilities.

Win/Draw/Lose

Thoughts to come.

(Oh, and Highroller loses two purple pony princess points for being impatient.)

ZeDorkSlipeur (3) - Rhand, Highroller, Gentleman Johnny
Rhand (1) - ZeDorkSlipeur

Not Voting: Grapefruit21

Quote from lyonhaert »

So your only cascade targets for casting Norin with Flamekin Herald out would be Mana Crypt, Mox Amber, Wheel of Fate, and the potential Mox Opal?

All of which are probably worth it?

Quote from s0undfx »

Thanks for that! Would you say in 2021 this would still hold its own in a tuned, high power casual group?

Only if the player is strong enough (as has always been the case for Norin).

Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »

Also, who is actually new among the newcomers? (As in, didn't play forum Mafia at all until this year?)

Newest on that list is Trisscar, I think?

Quote from s0undfx »

Hi osie, what does your deck look like now? How does this deck stack up nowadays to say a high power casual group? I haven't touched this deck since around 2015 with a gobin focused build, and I'm thinking of updating it.

I have yet to pick up the Commander Legends cards. Flamekin Herald is exciting.

I don't get to play very often any more; I'd love to have more opportunities to play via webcam...

Current Decklist:



Need to get Rings of Brighthearth back in the deck for realsies just because it's SO good. Also, want to increase my creature count again, by 1-2 slots.

Planning to pick up Flamekin Herald and probably Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith, along with Tome of Legends and Mox Opal.

Probably cutting Field of the Dead for a Snow-Covered Mountain.

On the shortlist to consider cutting:



Feldon always feels a little slow for me. Gadrak is not as exciting as I hoped. Relic is less necessary with Scavenger Grounds in the deck. Mind Stone is the least likely of these to disappear, but is a consideration I've had in the past. Gauntlet of Power just feels not very helpful when it comes up given the usefulness of the other two nowadays. Flameshadow Conjuring is very win-more in my experience with it.

I've had a bit of mana irregularity from the last games I remember, so I may ponder some fixes for that, particularly involving damage or draw.

Sorry for the delay; had an interview at just the wrong time.

Wisp has died during the Night. They were the Town Protective ("The Angel of Death").

Day 2 Kick Deadline will be 5:00 PM PST on January 10th, 2021. The Deadline applies whether or not I am there to process it.

With 5 players, it takes 3 to Kick.

It is now KyLO.

Pokechu (4) - ZeDorkSlipeur, Rhand, Gentleman Johnny, LastWhisper
Gentleman Johnny (1) - Pokechu
ZeDorkSlipeur (1) - Highroller

Not Voting: Grapefruit21

Pokechu has been kicked. They were the Town Chatless Packager ("The Smuggler")

It is now Night. Do not post!

I am the walrus.

Pokechu (3) - ZeDorkSlipeur, Rhand, Gentleman Johnny
Gentleman Johnny (2) - Lastwhisper, Pokechu
ZeDorkSlipeur (1) - Highroller

Not Voting: Grapefruit21

Roughly 9 hours remain.

Day 1 Elimination Deadline will be 10:30 AM PST on Sunday, January 3rd. Extra time is to account for New Year's. I will not do an activity check for New Year's Eve, but I will do one for New Year's Day. Blah blah blah, be good to each other and have fun, ya-di-ya-di-ya.

With 7 players, it takes 4 to eliminate by majority.

Quote from d0rsal »

i think you mite want to reconsider ur zendikar rising review, it gave you an out to a resolved rest in peace or leyline of the void, in feed the swarm + it also doubles as creature removal if you needed it. also you mite consider agadeem, the undercrypt, its a land if you need it to be & a spell for late game shenanigans.

also, not sure how up to date the list is on page 1 of the thread, but wouldnt hero's downfall be better than dismember? you've already got a few -x/-x effects w/ mutilate & toxic deluge & being able to hit planeswalkers is nice. besides, how often are you really needing to kill a creature in the 1st cpl of turns before you actually have the mana to cast dismember w/o losing life & @ that pt, you could just spend the 3 mana & cast hero's downfall.

Feed the Swarm is not a bad idea, actually. I'd at least consider it. Agadeem's Awakening is pretty bad, otherwise I would consider it a bit more.

I've sometimes run Hero's Downfall, but one of my main focuses is keeping the mana curve tight, so Dismember works out a bit better as spot removal. I'm much less worried about the life, so Dismember is usually effectively just 1 mana for "Destroy target creature." That said, Hero's Downfall might replace The Elderspell again if I have yet to sub that out since I'm no longer playing against a planeswalker deck a lot of the time.