Following up Bob and GrilledCheese. They are correct, with the new rules Vesuva doesn't copy anything as it ETBs with Blood Moon out. You cannot name anything with Cavern either. This is going to hurt more than help in most scenarios.
What do you guys think about Opt? Now that the card is being reprinted, it could possibly be an alternative to serum visions in the lists running them. Instant speed doesn't matter that much for us, but it could still be better than serum visions in our deck if we're just missing 1 piece and can find it with the scry. However, sleight of hand might just be better since we don't really care about instant speed. Situations where instant speed could be relevant are against Lantern and decks we need to hold up swan song for.
I would equate Opt to Sleight of Hand for us (instant speed is fairly irrelevant). They both look at (up to) the top 2 cards. Since we tend to value Serum Visions over Sleight I assume we'll want Serum Visions still.
Tyrant looks interesting. I agree it could be a good Dromoka or Sigarda replacement, I'm less excite to replace Tusk with it though. I haven't been playing Titan much (except a PPTQ I went 5-2), there's a lot of Blood Moons at my local store right now. I've been tempted to try a version that reworks the mana base to cut Gemstone Mines and another land or two for Misty Rainforests and more basics but haven't gotten around to it.
Why don't most lists play hall of the bandit lord? It seems better in most respects to the slayer's stronghold
We're already pretty tight on utility lands and Slayer's Stronghold does something similar. But Stronghold can be tutored by, and used on your first titan. You have to have Hall out when you cast your Titan to give it haste, so it can't be used on your first titan.
Another idea... is this to silly to work? Or could it actually be good? Explore should be actually good there, accelerating you towards turn 3 TKS semi-reliably. Low number of untapped turn 1/2 green sources and reduced count of bouncelands could be a problem.
I think the untapped turn 1 green sources hurts a lot. In this build I would look for a replacement for Tribe Scout as it's not coming down turn 1 (and potentially 2) very often.
@Kanister: Relic does seem interesting, though I think it'll feel like a worse explore. I'll try to jam a few games on MTGO with it though. The other issue I see in that list is the lack of blue sources for transmuting. For a few months I was playing a version with a heavy black sideboard (Fatal Push + Thoughtseize). I ran the full 4 Gemstone Mines but not many other blue sources besides the bounce lands, and I was having issues transmuting.
@CrispyRice_96: Welcome back. Baloth vs Tracker is mostly a metagame decision. I would go with Tracker, Baloth can be very hit or miss. A lot of lists play with quite a few prevent life gain effects main. With that said, do you have Courser in the deck already? If not I would play one of those over either Baloth or Tracker. I would recommend playing with Bojuka Bog before dismissing it. I never played with it main until Dredge got big, but now I would never remove it from the main. It's great vs a lot of decks, Deathshadow, any Snapcaster deck, Company, and the list goes on. It also appears Dredge is making a bit of a comeback.
I haven't been playing online much so I only have the two weeks from my LGS to give insight on. I'm not a huge fan of two trackers in the main deck. I like one to pact for. Walking Ballista has been fine, I have yet to tutor for it, but it also hasn't been bad when I've drawn it. It's been a good way to try and bait out some remove or play around counters while still advancing my board state.
After side boarding I've been enjoying the extra trackers in the grindy match ups. When I played against DS Jund I boarded out a Summoner's Pact, scouts, ballista, and perhaps a land (I forget). I brought in the Pushes, Hornet Queen, Trackers, and Courser in anticipation for a grindy game. He ended up flooded so I don't know how that would have actually worked out.
I think next I'm going to try and rework the mana to be add more black and try out Thoughtseize in place of the counter magic, and go up to 4 Pushes. I think that ends up lending itself to keep the Explores over Visions to help the mana. I'll prob swap the courser for a tracker in the main, and same with explosives and slaughter pact.
-Cavern in the main is better for the fact that having the access to mana to cast a Snake is crucial.
-Ghost quarter is great for fetching a forest.
- I am liking the batterskull in the main as a stirrings target when you stall. I am keeping an eye on options.
-if you are going to run slaughter pact, run the rot farm instead of 3 Gruul Turf, sometimes it helps when you have only two lands to target with titan.
- Baloth is a waste IMO in the board, I feel it is taking up a precious slot to a deck that we already handily beat.
- Kessig Wolf Run! (main IMO) you can get a swing in with a titan? fetch for the run on the swing, you can usually kill them with a very angry plant token the following turn.
-I see no value in crumbling vestige, run an island. Gives another path land, and you can Engineered explosive for a bloodmoonRUG
-I am seeing a lot of combo decks that run s alot of dig cards (some time warping, some prowess), an most do not run direct removal. Enter Ruric Thar, the unbowed
-I highly recommend a Eternal Witness, we run a lot of one-ofs and this can turn into a two of. 3 times (This week) My opponent just scooped to me getting back the one card I just shut their plan down with.
-Three Asuza's. she is legendary and you can get to turn 3, 5 mana without her. A dig card, counterspell or another threat is better than the forth.
-I am testing Mire in the main right now, I like it. If I cut it, I am putting a second Vesuva in the main. A pain land or any other on color untapped land may provide more value. That turn one 1 drop is crucial.
-Spell pierce is better than a second pact of negation. The times you need to bring in that second (or 4th) counterspell, you are wanting it early, usually when you do not have the mana to cast it.
- I wouldn't say Baloth is a waste, it's not a necessity though. It being 4 mana vs 5 mana (Thrag) has saved me in the past being able to cast it a turn earlier against Burn. I've never lived the dream pacting for baloth with a Lily trigger on the stack.
- I've really liked vestige. It can help you cast snakes on turn 1, and it acts like a bounce land with an amulet in play. It also is has won me at least one game (prob more) being able to fetch it in the combat phase to make mana without an amulet in play.
- 4 Asuza is still acceptable (and I think best). It's our best ramp spell, if you have 1 stuck in hand because one's in play you are most likely in a good position.
- I like the 2nd Pact of Negation in the board against control, being able to tutor for the second one is really good against control and other combo (Ad Naus and Scapeshift).
So guys i have a decent modern pool with some tier 1 or tier 2 decks, but i really like this deck(i played amulet bloom back then), is it still a competitive deck or are you guys playing it cuz it's fun? Every time i see it now it feels to me like it's really dependent on drawing amulet, is that correct?
I really want this deck to be competitive and good again but i don't want to buy into the pieces i'm missing to find out it's just worse than many other decks i could be playing instead.
My meta is pretty competitive (Jund, Affinity, Infect, Bant Eldrazi, WB Eldrazi, and Dredge are there almost every week) and I often go 4-0 or 3-1. It's still competitive, I won a PPTQ and RPTQ with the deck, others go 5-0 in MTGO leagues, and the deck got 9th at a GP recently. The deck can function without an amulet in the opening hand, and I have won plenty of games without amulet, but you are required to play differently if you don't have an amulet.
I think trying to figure out the next ban list is ambitious and we should focus on what might be good in the new meta. We will need to see how things shake up with Fatal Push and the rest of Aether Revolt. For Stirrings to get banned I think both Gx Tron and Bant Eldrazi need to both be oppressive, otherwise there are better cards from each deck to ban.
I'll be curious if a grixis control deck with Ancestral Visions becomes big again, between FP and the black Expertise.
Squaggles, welcome back to the fold. I like seeing different takes. I also support playing at least 3 Azusa (I play the full 4), as debpj said, she can get you to turn 4 Titan on her own. In addition she is the most common path to a turn two win (with double amulet). 3 Summoner's Pact seems weird, especially since you are trying to build a tutor package. Eternal Witness has some merits, but goes against what I want for a game 1 (kill as fast as possible). I might try it in the board though, getting double use out of sideboard cards could be pretty good. 2 Leyline in the board seems odd, most math I've seen for Leylines supports 3. What is Chalice for, because Chalice for 1 shuts down so much of our deck too. I would also be curious to hear why Acidic Slime over another Rec Sage.
I didn't have any Hivemind kills during the RPTQ, though I did during the PPTQ I played the deck in. daviusminimus is spot on about tron, rarely is GQ going to make it or brake it. If you can titan before they Karn in game 1 getting Pact of Negation will be just about as good as GQ. Bog differs in that there isn't really another answer we can tutor for against Dredge game 1 to slow them down. I've also used Bog against GBx decks to shrink Goyfs and Flayers, and against blue decks to turn off Snapcaster. I've also tutored it against Infect to shut off Become Immense.
Ty, I wouldn't change much. I'm always on the look out to fill the 3 flex spots in my list (2 explores and hive mind). My latest update I've cut an explore to move the courser to the main deck (I can't remember what I added). I view it as a pact target for when I need to find land drops.
Chiming in on the extra slot as a Hivemind player. I play 1 as an out against decks that are in my local meta that I can't win via titan (Boggles, Soul Sisters, and Abzan Company). I like having it as a 1 of to draw to in scenarios where I know I'm not killing with titan (and sandbag pacts). Thrag and Hornet Queen are the two I would consider, but I don't think Thrag is good enough to win on it's own. I have thought about Hornet Queen since it helps against Affinity and Infect but neither of those are popular at my store.
Leylines: I've also cut them, I think there are better options in the GBx matchup, burn has turned into more creature heavy, and we're better off being faster than RG Breach. Trying to mull into a decent hand with a leyline was also rough. I only brought Leylines in once against Ad Naus. They comboed, flipped Patrician's Scorn and killed me.
Congrats on your results! Was this RPTQ in Canada? Only asking because I know someone who told me amulet t4d his RPTQ and I'm curious if that's you or this happened at multiple locations.
Thanks! No I played in Seattle/Bellevue. I know we had some Canadians come down since it was the closest for them, so if the person lives on the west coast it's possible they were talking about the same RPTQ?
I would equate Opt to Sleight of Hand for us (instant speed is fairly irrelevant). They both look at (up to) the top 2 cards. Since we tend to value Serum Visions over Sleight I assume we'll want Serum Visions still.
@CrispyRice_96: Welcome back. Baloth vs Tracker is mostly a metagame decision. I would go with Tracker, Baloth can be very hit or miss. A lot of lists play with quite a few prevent life gain effects main. With that said, do you have Courser in the deck already? If not I would play one of those over either Baloth or Tracker. I would recommend playing with Bojuka Bog before dismissing it. I never played with it main until Dredge got big, but now I would never remove it from the main. It's great vs a lot of decks, Deathshadow, any Snapcaster deck, Company, and the list goes on. It also appears Dredge is making a bit of a comeback.
4 Explore
4 Summoner's Pact
1 Pact of Negation
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Amulet
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout
3 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Primeval Titan
1 Walking Ballista
4 Simic Growth Chamber
2 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Boros Garrison
1 Gruul Turf
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
2 Blooming Marsh
1 Botanical Sanctum
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Tolaria West
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Khalni Garden
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Vesuva
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Fatal Push
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hornet Queen
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Pact of Negation
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Seal of Primordium
1 Swan Song
2 Tireless Tracker
I haven't been playing online much so I only have the two weeks from my LGS to give insight on. I'm not a huge fan of two trackers in the main deck. I like one to pact for. Walking Ballista has been fine, I have yet to tutor for it, but it also hasn't been bad when I've drawn it. It's been a good way to try and bait out some remove or play around counters while still advancing my board state.
After side boarding I've been enjoying the extra trackers in the grindy match ups. When I played against DS Jund I boarded out a Summoner's Pact, scouts, ballista, and perhaps a land (I forget). I brought in the Pushes, Hornet Queen, Trackers, and Courser in anticipation for a grindy game. He ended up flooded so I don't know how that would have actually worked out.
I think next I'm going to try and rework the mana to be add more black and try out Thoughtseize in place of the counter magic, and go up to 4 Pushes. I think that ends up lending itself to keep the Explores over Visions to help the mana. I'll prob swap the courser for a tracker in the main, and same with explosives and slaughter pact.
- I wouldn't say Baloth is a waste, it's not a necessity though. It being 4 mana vs 5 mana (Thrag) has saved me in the past being able to cast it a turn earlier against Burn. I've never lived the dream pacting for baloth with a Lily trigger on the stack.
- I've really liked vestige. It can help you cast snakes on turn 1, and it acts like a bounce land with an amulet in play. It also is has won me at least one game (prob more) being able to fetch it in the combat phase to make mana without an amulet in play.
- 4 Asuza is still acceptable (and I think best). It's our best ramp spell, if you have 1 stuck in hand because one's in play you are most likely in a good position.
- I like the 2nd Pact of Negation in the board against control, being able to tutor for the second one is really good against control and other combo (Ad Naus and Scapeshift).
My meta is pretty competitive (Jund, Affinity, Infect, Bant Eldrazi, WB Eldrazi, and Dredge are there almost every week) and I often go 4-0 or 3-1. It's still competitive, I won a PPTQ and RPTQ with the deck, others go 5-0 in MTGO leagues, and the deck got 9th at a GP recently. The deck can function without an amulet in the opening hand, and I have won plenty of games without amulet, but you are required to play differently if you don't have an amulet.
I'll be curious if a grixis control deck with Ancestral Visions becomes big again, between FP and the black Expertise.
That was me
Leylines: I've also cut them, I think there are better options in the GBx matchup, burn has turned into more creature heavy, and we're better off being faster than RG Breach. Trying to mull into a decent hand with a leyline was also rough. I only brought Leylines in once against Ad Naus. They comboed, flipped Patrician's Scorn and killed me.
Thanks! No I played in Seattle/Bellevue. I know we had some Canadians come down since it was the closest for them, so if the person lives on the west coast it's possible they were talking about the same RPTQ?