I guess they're saving those for an actual block and make a big deal about it as part of the lore and mechanics of the block, but it's weird that Magic has been around for as long as it has and they still have yet to print a cycle of 4-color legends.
They essentially did with the Nephilim. They even had the story to back them up as being one-off experiments, yet they lacked the legendary typing. I'm actually kind of surprised they haven't been accepted as useable Commanders and self-errata'd to be legendary.
I've tested it too, but most of the time I ended up drawing two cards. The main problem is that it targets a single player, and it's difficult to copy it more than once in the turn you cast 2+ wheel effects, so it's only effective in the late late game (when some players are already dead).
That summed up my thoughts pretty well. I'd want it to do more to the table. If this deck were focused more on 1v1 that would be an awesome addition!
I feel like I would too often end up with it being a Sign in Blood that costs more and hurts more.
New idea: Goblin Welder could be useful in this deck, given the number of useful artifacts, and mainly for Psychosis Crawler which draws a lot of hate, especially when he's like 15/15 and you're going off next turn... I played it for a long time in my Norin, The Wary deck and it ended up being one of the best cards in the deck, even when used to remove troublesome artifacts ('Blightsteel Colossus attacking me? Nah, grab your Expedition Map instead').
That's not a half bad idea! I might have to try that out.. I do run a ton of artifacts that would enable some useful swapping. Turning that Everflowing Chalice with one counter on it into a Caged Sun? Yes please!
Oh my god, I forgot to add Possibility Storm! Awesome card in this deck, and it really improves the chaos output
I guess Venser's Journal is relevant in 2HG but not so much in multiplayer unless you have plenty of pillows, because players tend to attack the player with the highest life total to stay political and not to hate random players.
My counters are mainly against generals (I love tucking them :rolleyes:) and Armageddon effects, which are played by every single white (or even red) deck in my meta. Since the table is always unhappy to lose to land denial, I act like the Silent Arbiter at the table, since blue is played by very few players (and often with no counters).
Two things if think you're missing: Echo Mage if you want more high-quality copy spells (two extra turns? Nah, I'll take six), and Mystic Retrieval, which I think is strictly better than Call to Mind. I guess I'm going to add them, too
I feel like I need ways to tutor for Possibility Storm. It's really that good.
I've only had experience with Uyo, Silent Prophet and Urabrask, The Hidden but both have been quite good. Urabrask is definitely the better of the two though.
I use a mix of the pillows, and the utility guys and it works decently. More focus might be better, or might be worse. I used to run more creatures and more utility dudes but I found they just weren't that good.
Echo Mage is a good example. I have one sitting in my sideboard/deck bits box and he's been in there for months. He would always level up and eat up a ton of mana, then before I could actually use him someone would snipe him and I would be out a ton of mana. He became a huge liability and drew a LOT of hate. As always, YMMV but I couldn't get him to work with the way my deck is set up. Perhaps a few counters like you have would make him work?
On the subject of counters, it sounds like your ~5 are exactly correct for your meta. Counters are not wrong, I'm just weird and like games to be fun and splashy even if that means I die horribly. Armageddon, however, is not fun. Counter that crap every time.
I need to update my changelog and decklist in my OP as I changed a few cards as of Dragon's Maze. I'm swapping a few things around here and there. For example I have a (foil!)Thieves Auction in the deck at the moment. It sounded so deliciously chaotic, but every time I draw it I wish it was any other card. I never actually want to cast it.
edit: Mystic Retrieval might be better than Call to Mind, but the higher initial mana cost could also be an issue. It's worth checking out.
Evil_Spork, your deck is really interesting. Is the lifegain from Venser's Journal relevant? I'm not playing it actually because I find it a bit heavy on mana, and I can have the same effect (without the lifegain obviously) for 0 or 1 mana.
I've found the life gain helps to keep me alive a bit longer and soak up damage while everyone fights. Having a Spellbook instead might be a better idea as the journal is hard to cast. I'd say the Journal is on the chopping block and Spellbook would be the replacement.
Things I'm not sure of:
- recursion for instants/sorcery: is it worth it? Most of the time I would like to recur artifacts or creatures, as they are key to my gameplay, while I have plenty of wheels and copy effects. Maybe I could switch to 1 Call to Mind and 1 Trash for Treasure (because they are tutorables), o strip the whole package
It most certainly is. While it can be annoying to take a ton of turns in a row I've found recurring things like Time Stretch can win games. I've liked having one Snapcaster Mage and one Call to Mind.
Due to how many Forks I play I really get a lot out of things like Blatant Thievery. It may not be right for everyone's deck but it has gotten me out of some bad situations by removing the threat. (I'm lookin at you Eldrazi)
I personally don't play any counterspells because I like really stupid things to happen in EDH and counters stop that. Having no counters also helps with politics as I'm not stopping anyone from playing spells directly and thus not drawing as much hate for playing blue. Partially a playstyle choice, partially a strategy choice.
I use every copy spell ever printed. I LOVE them. I don't need to play counterspells because I can simply use Redirect or Twincast to Negate (see what I did there? lol) any counters that I don't want happening.
I've actually had my Fog Bank and Guard Gomazoa provide more value than I ever imagined. People tend to just ignore me as someone to attack due to them when they could be doing damage. They often block multiple times before eating some sort of expensive removal spell because someone really wants them gone. They seem really bad but so great things!
I definitely feel like I need a bit more spot removal for both creatures and other troublesome permanents. Cyclonic Rift has helped a lot in this area but I'd like to add one or two more eventually.
Capsize has been pretty good for me so far.
I used to run Dominus of Fealty but he eventually got cut. He's insane on paper but he often didn't do anything or didn't live long enough to matter. YMMV.
Lastly I need to add that by FAR the best card in my deck right now is POSSIBILITY STORM.
Every time I've played it, it has single highhandedly won the game for me. I'm able to disrupt the game SO much that no one can function and I just cherry pick my spells by recycling my hand with sorceries and leaving instants available to try to flip into a twincast. Who doesn't want to pay 3 mana for a Time Stretch + Reverberate. I love love love LOVE Possibility Storm.
I'm planning on running it in nin at least once in awhile, I took a different rout but still have a high non permanent count. I just want to win off the mana it produces.
I would have to respectfully disagree with running very few non-permanent cards in Blue and Red. I feel like playing almost all permanents in these colors makes you miss out on some of the most powerful cards in history.
Well near infinite based on if you get enough for the reiterate with buyback.
Hear is how it works.
Cast ww
Copy without reiterate with buyback
Copy resovles and ideally 6+lands enter
The original is still on the stack so you can copy again.
This can make infinite mana aswell.
Ahh I see it now!
One problem: each time Warp World resolves some number of non-permanent cards will likely be drawn. Each iteration of Warp World that resolves after the first has a high likelihood of returning fewer and fewer permanents to the battlefield.
With 30 non-permanent cards that means each resolution should yield ~30% fewer permanents than the last. If the first copy resolves with 20 permanents on my side, I should statistically draw 14 permanents. Then next resolution 9.8, then 7, etc.
edit: Apparently overanalysis is bad.
They essentially did with the Nephilim. They even had the story to back them up as being one-off experiments, yet they lacked the legendary typing. I'm actually kind of surprised they haven't been accepted as useable Commanders and self-errata'd to be legendary.
So Mana Reflection, Mirari's Wake and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger = 4 mana per land tap?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9813234
So will Hasbro be handing out these cards the day before the set releases?
That summed up my thoughts pretty well. I'd want it to do more to the table. If this deck were focused more on 1v1 that would be an awesome addition!
I feel like I would too often end up with it being a Sign in Blood that costs more and hurts more.
That's not a half bad idea! I might have to try that out.. I do run a ton of artifacts that would enable some useful swapping. Turning that Everflowing Chalice with one counter on it into a Caged Sun? Yes please!
I feel like I need ways to tutor for Possibility Storm. It's really that good.
I've only had experience with Uyo, Silent Prophet and Urabrask, The Hidden but both have been quite good. Urabrask is definitely the better of the two though.
I use a mix of the pillows, and the utility guys and it works decently. More focus might be better, or might be worse. I used to run more creatures and more utility dudes but I found they just weren't that good.
Echo Mage is a good example. I have one sitting in my sideboard/deck bits box and he's been in there for months. He would always level up and eat up a ton of mana, then before I could actually use him someone would snipe him and I would be out a ton of mana. He became a huge liability and drew a LOT of hate. As always, YMMV but I couldn't get him to work with the way my deck is set up. Perhaps a few counters like you have would make him work?
On the subject of counters, it sounds like your ~5 are exactly correct for your meta. Counters are not wrong, I'm just weird and like games to be fun and splashy even if that means I die horribly. Armageddon, however, is not fun. Counter that crap every time.
I need to update my changelog and decklist in my OP as I changed a few cards as of Dragon's Maze. I'm swapping a few things around here and there. For example I have a (foil!)Thieves Auction in the deck at the moment. It sounded so deliciously chaotic, but every time I draw it I wish it was any other card. I never actually want to cast it.
edit: Mystic Retrieval might be better than Call to Mind, but the higher initial mana cost could also be an issue. It's worth checking out.
I've found the life gain helps to keep me alive a bit longer and soak up damage while everyone fights. Having a Spellbook instead might be a better idea as the journal is hard to cast. I'd say the Journal is on the chopping block and Spellbook would be the replacement.
I'm almost always playing this deck with 4 players.
It most certainly is. While it can be annoying to take a ton of turns in a row I've found recurring things like Time Stretch can win games. I've liked having one Snapcaster Mage and one Call to Mind.
Due to how many Forks I play I really get a lot out of things like Blatant Thievery. It may not be right for everyone's deck but it has gotten me out of some bad situations by removing the threat. (I'm lookin at you Eldrazi)
I personally don't play any counterspells because I like really stupid things to happen in EDH and counters stop that. Having no counters also helps with politics as I'm not stopping anyone from playing spells directly and thus not drawing as much hate for playing blue. Partially a playstyle choice, partially a strategy choice.
I use every copy spell ever printed. I LOVE them. I don't need to play counterspells because I can simply use Redirect or Twincast to Negate (see what I did there? lol) any counters that I don't want happening.
I've actually had my Fog Bank and Guard Gomazoa provide more value than I ever imagined. People tend to just ignore me as someone to attack due to them when they could be doing damage. They often block multiple times before eating some sort of expensive removal spell because someone really wants them gone. They seem really bad but so great things!
I definitely feel like I need a bit more spot removal for both creatures and other troublesome permanents. Cyclonic Rift has helped a lot in this area but I'd like to add one or two more eventually.
Capsize has been pretty good for me so far.
I used to run Dominus of Fealty but he eventually got cut. He's insane on paper but he often didn't do anything or didn't live long enough to matter. YMMV.
Lastly I need to add that by FAR the best card in my deck right now is POSSIBILITY STORM.
Every time I've played it, it has single highhandedly won the game for me. I'm able to disrupt the game SO much that no one can function and I just cherry pick my spells by recycling my hand with sorceries and leaving instants available to try to flip into a twincast. Who doesn't want to pay 3 mana for a Time Stretch + Reverberate.
I love love love LOVE Possibility Storm.
Please post if you have some unique ideas!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9813234
I would have to respectfully disagree with running very few non-permanent cards in Blue and Red. I feel like playing almost all permanents in these colors makes you miss out on some of the most powerful cards in history.
Ahh I see it now!
One problem: each time Warp World resolves some number of non-permanent cards will likely be drawn. Each iteration of Warp World that resolves after the first has a high likelihood of returning fewer and fewer permanents to the battlefield.
With 30 non-permanent cards that means each resolution should yield ~30% fewer permanents than the last. If the first copy resolves with 20 permanents on my side, I should statistically draw 14 permanents. Then next resolution 9.8, then 7, etc.