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The Limited Archetypes of Ixalan
 
Treasure Cruisin' with Monored Burn
 
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  • posted a message on Dredge
    Its a great answer to storm, but only storm. It wins the storm matchup
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on {XLN} Ixalan spoiler discussion for Modern
    Quote from izzetmage »
    5
    None

    4
    Opt

    3
    Chart a Course (combo decks, not aggro decks)
    Kopala, Warden of Waves (it's a 4 in Merfolk, but Merfolk is like a 2.5 in the meta)
    Carnage Tyrant (SB for Valakut decks)

    2
    Ashes of the Abhorrent
    Tocatli Honor Guard
    Dive Down (beats spot removal and Anger)
    Deathgorge Scavenger
    Old-Growth Dryads
    Growing Rites of Itlimoc
    Sentinel Totem (worse than Relic/Spellbomb)
    Sorcerous Spyglass (worse than Needle)
    Field of Ruin
    Unclaimed Territory

    1
    The rest

    Reprints: Spell Pierce, Duress, checklands

    This set is pretty lackluster. The first thought that went through my mind after reading the full spoiler was "wait, is this a small set? Why are there so few playable cards?"

    This set has a bunch of cards that were quite literally created by the following process:
    1) Take a random, existing card.
    2) Bump its mana cost up by 1 or 2.
    3) Make it create Treasure tokens equal to (or less than!) the mana increase.
    The end result is an unexciting spell that you cast 1 turn late. It's like if Serra Avenger was a 2/2 without flying and vigilance. Eww.

    Fact or Fiction section
    UG Merfolk is a thing now - Fiction, adding green strains your mana too much. Lords cost double blue and Mutavault doesn't provide colored mana. The epitome of this mana screwery is a hand containing Cavern of Souls, Mutavault, Kumena's Speaker and a lord.

    Dinosaurs is a thing now - Fiction, despite a Dinosaur Ancient Stirrings and two cost reducers . The payoff isn't there.

    Opt is better than 1) Serum Visions, 2) Sleight of Hand - 1) Fiction, 2) Fiction (but only because of trichotomy). SV is the best; it digs deeper than the other two as long as you have an extra draw to make. I consider Opt to be approximately equal to Sleight of Hand, so that would technically be a "fiction" for 2). I don't think you can slam all 3 in a deck that isn't pure combo like Storm though - for one, people weren't already slamming 4 SV and 4 Sleight in their decks.
    I think it could replace Spoils of the Vault in Ad Nauseam; Spoils is kinda like a high-variance cantrip that can range from tutoring the exact card that you need for just 1 mana, to killing yourself by life loss/exiling wincons. Opt is more consistent.
    Format is card name, followed by number of decks found on mtgtop8. Disclaimer: mtgtop8 data includes MTGO League data, which is picked in a non-random manner by WotC.

    Oketra's Last Mercy 3
    Overwhelming Splendor 0
    Solemnity 5
    Steward of Solidarity 0
    Sunscourge Champion 0
    Countervailing Winds 0
    Fraying Sanity 0
    Kefnet's Last Word 1
    Nimble Obstructionist 7
    Riddleform 0
    Strategic Planning 2
    Striped Riverwinder 1
    Supreme Will 12
    Tragic Lesson 0
    Ammit Eternal 0
    Bontu's Last Reckoning 6
    Doomfall 0
    Dreamstealer 0
    Liliana's Defeat 6
    Lurching Rotbeast 0
    Razaketh's Rite 0
    Abrade 7
    Crash Through 0
    Firebrand Archer 0
    Hazoret's Undying Fury 0
    Hour of Devastation 2
    Wildfire Eternal 0
    Hour of Promise 31
    Life Goes On 2
    Pride Sovereign 0
    Ramunap Excavator 22
    Rhonas's Last Stand 0
    Uncage the Menagerie 0
    Bloodwater Entity 0
    Samut, the Tested 0
    Claim//Fame 20
    Leave//Chance 1
    Driven//Despair 9
    God-Pharaoh's Gift 1
    Hollow One 3
    Hashep Oasis 0
    Hostile Desert 1
    Ifnir Deadlands 1
    Ipnu Rivulet 0
    Ramunap Ruins 0
    Scavenger Grounds 11
    Shefet Dunes 2

    Confirmed: every block with gods is underpowered. Only 3 cards broke the 20-deck threshold, and one of those cards is Claim//Fame, which turned out to be much worse than the pre-release hype. The last recorded Claim//Fame deck on mtgtop8 dates back to 17/8, almost a month ago. Lesson learnt: don't pay 1 mana just to reanimate a 2 mana creature.

    Hour of Promise is the most played HOU card by # of records on mtgtop8, but it's not quite a staple in Titanshift yet. Its adoption rate in that deck is 38.75%, and none of the Titanshift players who T32ed GP Birmingham played it (although GP Sao Paulo had more Hour devotees).

    There's nothing left to say but how disappointing the other cards turned out. Burn has little to worry about Oketra's Last Mercy, Solemnity isn't a good combo, Fraying Sanity neither made dedicated mill nor the 2-card combo with Traumatize better, Nimble Obstructionist is nowhere near Vendilion Clique, Liliana's Defeat isn't worth the SB slot for GDS, Miracles is a pipe dream even with Bloodwater Entity, Hollow One isn't even tier 3 despite the press coverage, and every deck in Modern either plays too few fetches or is in too many colors for Hostile Desert.

    RIP HOU, may you have more value than DGM in 5 years' time.


    Dinosaurs are definitely not a thing. Being they are in naya colors, and represent a kind of stompy or "agressive midrange" area, its basically Zoo's field, and there is nothing here that makes Dinos better than zoo. No cheap threats (nacatl is a 3/3) no good mana ramp (Noble is the best aggressive mana ramp) and the cost reducers are great, they dont synergize well and wont be swinging for more than a point of damage or so.

    The dinos would need to be absurd at 2-4 mana next set to make that work. As it is, dino fans just need to hope that theres a dino goyf or nacatl or something in the next set that bumps the playability of zoo or naya midrange.

    As far as HOU Playability. Yeah, I thought claim might be good... but as I kept thinking about it, the only place that really is great is where you have the option of tutoring the card, thus making it a tool box spell. If the aftermath was reversed, or just different where the reanimate is the aftermath side, it would be a thousand times better. that way you can mill the effect while milling the toolbox to use from. Less work, more pay off, less raw power, more utility. But alas.

    Driven doesnt have numbers behind it, but it is a 1 of in dredge now, and is played. Dredge isnt all that great right now, but its a very good 1 of, and in dredge it shows up in the yard more often than not. Its on par with stuff like rally, scourge devil and haunted dead.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Dredge
    On the play I prefer discard. On the draw I prefer destruction.

    On the play If you miss the discard you can often go under it with a well placed looting or mom hug. On the draw you don't have that option, and you have less turns to get there. You can destroy easier on the draw too.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on {XLN} Ixalan spoiler discussion for Modern
    Quote from Lectrys »
    Adanto Vanguard looks neat in Zoo as an aggressive white 2-drop that can make itself indestructible at the cost of only life (not mana or cards)! ...4 life. That's a bit steep if it's blocked by yet another Lingering Souls token. On the other hand, your opponents won't Bolt it as long as they value their cards more than they value lowering your life total!
    Why can't this Vanguard have a genuine 3 power all the time, though...

    In the meantime, River Sneak only pumps itself on the turn that Merfolks ETB, which means that it is not a fan of Aether Vial Flashing things in on opponents' EOTs.


    Thought about this as well. I dont think it will find its foothold, but its good in terms of design space. The truth is Zoo kinda wants dumb beef, it wants to be big for little to no cost. The 1 toughness is a little annoying, because you cant outrace the hyper aggro decks, so you are on block duty, and this cant do that. I've joked about how I will take a 2 mana 3/3 with a built in protect clause, over a tarmogoyf any day. But its a serious thing. I would trade my set of goyfs in zoo for a 3/3 hexproof any day.

    a 3/1 indestructible pay 4 life on attack, 1/X pay 4 life to block isnt exactly that. A 3/4 tarmogoyf (before push) was closer to it... and even then I was always complaining about how in zoo it wasnt a turn two 3 power at least.

    I think if we got to the point where I could get this with a 3/3 natural body (or easy to turn on body) where I could pay some life to ensure it doesnt die? Yeah, Id love that. But theoretically I can get "more" aggression in with 2 mana when I go balls to the walls aggro normally. I need more of a stompy effect, ala, a big creature that can stick.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Dredge
    Id also like to know if anyones been getting success with Failure//Comply
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Dredge
    Quote from lvg »
    Played another PPTQ this week going 4-2 losing my win-and-in in round 5 against abzan. That loss was frustrating as it is a good matchup. Lost in the second sb game to cage (he even kept colorlessland cage because of it). And the third to never really getting anythin going. Other loss was to coco humans, that deck is fast and can grind suprisingly well.

    Still feel like the deck is reasonably positioned right now. There's not that much hate and given the low number of GY decks doing well it likely will go down further.

    Doesn't look like Ixilan will bring any new toys though.


    No, the graveyard set in Amonkhet was pretty swing and miss. You can argue we got some flex spots cards, but realistically, nothing that really helped us reclaim top spots
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Dredge
    Quote from diateone »
    Guys, I am currently trying to get some expertise in dredge mechanics. Although my list is not the conventional dredge (check my signature), I guess we have something in common: GY hate. How do you guys face this? Play around, go full throttle before they wreck our GY, play conservatively and try to "grind"?

    Also, how do you guys face the burn (or similar aggro strategies) matchup? Is golgari brownscale playable?

    Thanks in advance!

    Brown is a bit out dated tech, but mostly you race hard and cast Collective Brutality or gnaw to the bone.

    As for the sideboarding. Its like I said in the primer. You have to memorize every sideboard card that will be used against you, and who is currently playing those cards, so that way you know how important the counter hate is, and which ones to bring. Thats how you win a game 2 or 3 in this deck and its very key to being successful.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on {XLN} Ixalan spoiler discussion for Modern
    Quote from D90Dennis14 »
    Quote from Lectrys »
    Again, Old-Growth Dryads looks the best in hyper aggro decks from that initial testing of mine. Your opponent often cannot take advantage of the mana/tempo boost fast enough, especially when you're pumping out 6 damage a turn or more. The games where I chained OGD into a game-ending Reckless Bushwhacker were an extreme example of this. (For the record, I tend to cut Goblin Guide, Grim Lavamancer, Experiment One, and even Kird Ape for OGD.)

    I'm not sure that Humans wants Wanted Scoundrels--those aggro decks are leaning on the black splash more than the red one lately, but having a frame similar to Voltaic Brawler is distressing.

    I don't see the point of Old-Growth Dryads in Zoo, it has enough good 1-drops (Wild Nacatl, Narnam Renegade, Goblin Guide, Kird Ape) that it doesn't need it.
    That isn't even counting "synergy 1-drops" like Experiment One and Monastery Swiftspear.
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from Lectrys »
    Again, Old-Growth Dryads looks the best in hyper aggro decks from that initial testing of mine.


    Which deck you are testing against? No bolt or push or path?


    Now I'm not going to defend Old Growth here, but I will say, beating removal by playing more dumb but buff creatures than midrange/control decks have removal for is stompy decks speicality. So "but removal kills it" isnt the the greatest defense for why a creature is bad in those types of decks. They play, around 30 creatures, sometimes up to 40, against even the most removal heavey deck's 20 removals.

    So yeah, what really matters is having a critical mass of high power creatures at low curves. So old growth fits there. Grant it, unlike nacatl, which if it gets bolted you just accept a 1 for 1, this getting bolted is a 2 for 1. But sometimes you are just trying to exhaust them, so its fine.

    As far as "zoo already has enough good one drops" ask tell any zoo player that and we will tell you that you are flat out wrong. 2 damage from a 1 cmc card is too low mathematically now. If I have 3 2/3s out I have a 4 turn clock. If I have 3 3/3s I have a 2-3. 3 damage is the magic number, go and ask burn players that, its a well known fact.

    Zoo has 1.5 cards that are 3/3s. You have Nacatl and Experiment 1, who isnt super reliable as a 3/3 yet. Critical mass for them is getting another 3/3 at 1 mana. Old growth likely isnt it, but it's the closest theyve gotten in years.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on {XLN} Jace Cunning Castout and the incoming new Planeswalker ruling
    Less joking about gideon, you can play kytheon and Gideon of the Trials togather in an aggro deck, which actually is very very good for an aggro deck.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Dredge
    I think its worse for us than Tormenting voice. Discard is after. Making it optional is cool for congflag, but most of the time you want to just enable.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]
    Its not the worst. If you can win the game quickly, the mana bump doesnt matter. If it can enable Nacatl, E1, Kytheon, combo as a real deal, might very well be worth looking at. Its a steep price I wont deny that, but it at least doesnt crap on you like Scythe tiger does.
    Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
  • posted a message on Glittering Wish
    Historically Glitter Wish has only ever found 2 homes in modern. The first was Jeskai Ascendancy, which ended up being so good of a deck (broken) that it didnt even need wish to work at 100%. The card was good in the deck. The deck just simply didnt need it.

    The second was midrange value decks. We've seen it in some gifts decks and azban decks. They like having the game long and finding the exact card to excute the key card against whatever deck.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Dredge
    Sorry put them to less than 0. Wins agaist angels grace
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Dredge
    You want to use it in matches where you can use 2 modes at least. Ad nuseam you can get discard and 2 life to work (lifeloss kills them with a unlife out), collected company decks where you can kill a mana dork and take company, burn or zoo decks where you can kill an attacker and take a burn spell. G/W decks like taxs where you can kill a hatebear and take stuff like path.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
  • posted a message on Dredge
    So about Raphael Levy And Failure // Comply. Thought Id shed some light on his past so it makes a little more sense for people who werent playing dredge 3 years ago when it was bad.

    Levy invented a deck back in the day called Zombie Loam. It used Zombie Infestation to discard lands, create token blockers, and stall for a lethal loam powered conflag. It wasnt a great deck by any stretch, but it was surprising, innovative and off the radar. For what its worth HE should be credited for loam conflag. It always existed, but most people called it too slow or cute, and went for reanimation packages instead, and the tech was lost to time until Levy dug it back up.

    That being said, his tech should probably be taken seriously. And tested. Now, often he techs correctly... but for an event. So it could be fluff, and be worse when the opponent knows it, thus undoing the whole reason to do it... so yeah, long term will tell.

    But its a good find. Also I do like how he is still using driven, so its not replacing that card. Overall, driven I think is proving more and more to be real.
    Posted in: Tier 2 (Modern)
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