I find myself dying to nightmarish a lot lately. Since I have no control over skills or what direction I run in I keep running into cold orbs, molten tracks, or plagued areas before stopping dead and having that split second before I take control again and use serenity.
bus-driver, you 'move' all abilities that would target one person and make them target another person instead. SS provided the NK example as just that..an example. SS moved all abilities targeting EP(like mine) to AE instead. If someone HAD tried to NK EP, that NK attempt would have ended up targeting AE instead. This is pro-town thought on SS's part, albeit short-sighted(EP was pretty likely to have been Doc protected yesterday).
Bus Driver in the most classical sense swaps the two players entirely (anything targeting A targets B and vice versa). What g_d did is simply the ambiguous option C that is also called redirector, which I've seen a few times before. Instead of redirect A to B it redirects from A to B. Either way void should realize he's being dumb.
EP: can you explain why you went to such lengths to attempt to discredit Voxx's post? It honestly doesn't make sense to me why you'd put in that much effort when there wasn't even a wagon on you.
The only reason I don't post lengthy cases anymore is because I don't have the free time I used to. It was a holiday and my wife was stuck in Germany because of Lufthansa, so I had the time to make a long detailed response and case against Vox. I expected to get some OMGUS flak, but my case speaks for itself.
Not in the situation and manner that you got annoyed, yes really. Nice attempt at a blanket discredit though.
I'm a bit confused as to what exactly you're trying to say here.
Are you trying to say that it makes no sense for you to post emotionally as scum? If so, then... no. You could have left the emotion in there because you didn't realize it was scummy (the same as every other scum-tell). More often than not, showing emotion is actually a town tell -- just not in this case. I often look for scum in the people being overly cool/unemotional as well (though it depends on the person).
If that's not what you're saying, then clarify?
I think you need to clarify something as well because what you said is that a townie would not get annoyed at scum because the scum is doing their job.
As for clarifying my point, it's pretty simple: your logic is relying on me just being annoyed at Vox for nailing me for wrong reasons, but that doesn't make sense to me when I obviously took a long ****ing time to post what I did. I opened a word file, typed my thoughts, structured them, and pointed out the inherent hypocrisy and bias in what Vox said. Going against your theory of emotional posting is the case of someone writing a letter expressing their frustrations, maybe even having a specific target, to relieve their emotion in order to think clearly and then make a better decision instead of an impulsive one. That level of catharsis works against your opinion of my post, and simply discrediting Vox's case was not my goal; his case (on the surface) is simply lazy.
Also, it's not a blanket discredit if you have a lengthier response to another part of the same post.
Combined with the suspicion on Silver below, this is exactly the sort of stance I'd take if I were scum, and thought that jumping on the IB wagon was too dangerous at the moment. Present mixed feelings, but leave a clear door to jump on later. If people decide to jump on Silver, that works, but don't derail the IB wagon by voting him now; E_P only decides to vote Silver after the IB wagon has stalled out.
This paragraph bothers me. The actual content is fine, but it's very...passive. It's just noting the "facts" rather than showing genuine interest. He's noting what his stance is without taking an active role. It's the kind of post I'd make when if I'd sat down trying to think of what position to take for a while, rather than what I'd write when having a gut reaction of "hey, this dude is scummy." As mentioned above, the lack of vote is also odd and not what I'd expect of a town E_P.
This has been covered already. I am saying I'm not for a IB lynch because the evidence it's based on is bad and IB is just eager. I'm not sure how that's making sure to leave room in later. Especially bringing up my own target who I provided a case for the next day. If you are going to attack me for not voting, attack me for it there where it looks much worse in a reread.
I'm not going to spend a ton of effort on this, because it's a pretty weak point and one I'm having a hard time explaining, but this joke/observation here bothers me. For context, it's a reference to Cyan v. Manders Round 142. Again, it's a very passive sort of observation. My issue is actually pretty similar to what I was saying about Foxlet at the beginning of the game. If he's town, he should be somewhat interested in the battle, and I wouldn't expect him to think of such a joke.
TWO posts? I wasn't expecting "a couple things bothered me" so literal, and this one sucks anyways. Why on Earth would I not try and cut the MH vs. Cyan argument at the knees every time I see it? What could possibly be gained from the two of them bickering for a hundred posts and voting each other for (as you said) the 142nd time?
You really think anyone would look at that and think "I should let those two go at it, there's probably good analysis there!"
What are you talking about? I posted twice during the time IB went from no votes to L-2, and expressed that he was not scummy enough to vote. How is that keeping my hands from being dirty?
And what do you mean Vox explained his reasons? He went from Cyouni is looking so good the miller should not be an automatic vig (which he stated just about every post Day 1) to saying he was scum because SF did the same thing! How is that at all justified to you?
@EP: No, I'm not glossing it over. I understand exactly what DM is talking about, and believe that he has exactly nailed what was going through your head at the time. When you are scum, and someone correctly identifies you as scum, it is frustrating. When you perceive their reasoning as terrible, but know that they are 'on to you' anyway it is infuriating. This is definitely something that you appear to be guilty of here. I mean like..you start out your post putting your vote on Voxx, but ultimately it just comes down to OMGUS. This is simply not the type of behavior I would expect from you as town.
Then what do you think about Vox's opinions flipping on SS after SS and Cyouni?
Seriously though. I tried to target EP with an ability that 'failed'. An ability that apparently should have been redirected to you. If I had been RBed, I would expect the Mod to indicate this, not to just say 'your ability failed'. There is already one person that claimed to be untargetable. It is unlikely that the town has 2 untargetables.
Something is amiss here. Clearly.
This vote is an awfully knee-jerk reaction on your part, also.
Gonna get the important part out of the way first:
Vote Emo Pinata
His reaction to Vox's case is a classic "I'm scum but your reasons suck" response. Scum are more likely to get super annoyed at terrible reasons than town (at least, in the way E_P is). For a town, if someone makes a terrible case on you, it just strikes you as ridiculous. For a scum, it can be infuriating -- nobody wants to lose to logic that was totally wrong and dumb, after all. Plus, there's the insecurity that hey, maybe I did misplay there. Yeah, townies get annoyed when they're being wagoned, but it's more in a "you're all idiots" kind of way, which isn't what E_P is showing here.
He's clearly annoyed at Vox, which doesn't really mesh with his conviction that Vox is scum. If he thinks Vox is just twisting things/making **** up, then why is he so mad? It's just a scum tactic after all. Town don't get annoyed at scum (who are just doing their job after all), they get annoyed at town for being stupid.
--
I reread E_P after this, and there's a couple other things that bother me. Expect a longer post from me talking about generally less important stuff tonight (either about E_P or otherwise). F'realz this time.
"A townie wouldn't get annoyed at scum because they're just doing their job"? Really?
Cyan is at least simplifying in a way that I could see his point, you are making no sense. To say I was responding emotionally and provided a structured, well evidenced response and case - at the very least I would have already made a cathartic document and felt better and more reasonable by the time I would submit it and not submitted it.
I don't think so. At first I had the same thought you did, but after looking through his case there's no way he reread last night and came to the conclusions he came to. At all.
OK, then I'd recommend sticking to current issues like Luthansa striking or that Rinehart. Not what they think, just talk about the situation and see what springs from it. They're somewhat politically charged, but not so overtly.
You're right, EP. That defense of Foxlet is...alarming. Still, my biggest problem is that SF's only consistent, strong and reliable read was SS as town. That doesn't seem like a scumbuddy interaction, especially considering SF replaced in with SS under considerable pressure (and looked like the lynch for a while).
The problem is that it can go either way, but Silver has been making great posts lately so I think we can agree there are bigger fish to fry anyways. SS has dropped below DJ, Reya, and Vox - and I've not looked into MH at all other than thinking her frustration was genuine.
The only reason I don't post lengthy cases anymore is because I don't have the free time I used to. It was a holiday and my wife was stuck in Germany because of Lufthansa, so I had the time to make a long detailed response and case against Vox. I expected to get some OMGUS flak, but my case speaks for itself.
I think you need to clarify something as well because what you said is that a townie would not get annoyed at scum because the scum is doing their job.
As for clarifying my point, it's pretty simple: your logic is relying on me just being annoyed at Vox for nailing me for wrong reasons, but that doesn't make sense to me when I obviously took a long ****ing time to post what I did. I opened a word file, typed my thoughts, structured them, and pointed out the inherent hypocrisy and bias in what Vox said. Going against your theory of emotional posting is the case of someone writing a letter expressing their frustrations, maybe even having a specific target, to relieve their emotion in order to think clearly and then make a better decision instead of an impulsive one. That level of catharsis works against your opinion of my post, and simply discrediting Vox's case was not my goal; his case (on the surface) is simply lazy.
Also, it's not a blanket discredit if you have a lengthier response to another part of the same post.
This has been covered already. I am saying I'm not for a IB lynch because the evidence it's based on is bad and IB is just eager. I'm not sure how that's making sure to leave room in later. Especially bringing up my own target who I provided a case for the next day. If you are going to attack me for not voting, attack me for it there where it looks much worse in a reread.
TWO posts? I wasn't expecting "a couple things bothered me" so literal, and this one sucks anyways. Why on Earth would I not try and cut the MH vs. Cyan argument at the knees every time I see it? What could possibly be gained from the two of them bickering for a hundred posts and voting each other for (as you said) the 142nd time?
You really think anyone would look at that and think "I should let those two go at it, there's probably good analysis there!"
And what do you mean Vox explained his reasons? He went from Cyouni is looking so good the miller should not be an automatic vig (which he stated just about every post Day 1) to saying he was scum because SF did the same thing! How is that at all justified to you?
Yeah, you're not even paying attention to anything I say, you're just glossing over things in order to fit your generalization.
I'm not untargetable.
I think you are a survivor.
"A townie wouldn't get annoyed at scum because they're just doing their job"? Really?
Cyan is at least simplifying in a way that I could see his point, you are making no sense. To say I was responding emotionally and provided a structured, well evidenced response and case - at the very least I would have already made a cathartic document and felt better and more reasonable by the time I would submit it and not submitted it.