If you have tested this build can you tell me how opportunity is working? I haven't even tried it because I feel like the CMC is COMPLETELY prohibitive
edit - also a few recommendations
1. more mutilate
2. at least 1 cyclonic rift mb
3. seriously think about Duskmantle Seer. he can be a gamble at times, but with the right deck construction (i.e. generally low CMC for you) he can be amazing
I've considered more Mutilate. I'm still not sure it's ideal until I can get Watery Graves. Cyclonic Rift is something I hadn't thought about, and it is definitely something I'll look at in the future, if I have trouble with Planeswalkers.
You are looking only at his symmetrical draw aspect and nothing else. Remember that Jace Beleren's +2 also "sped up" the game.
Duskmantle Seer speeds the game up by causing both players to lose life. The draw aspect has nothing to do with it. The average CMC in this deck is 1.8. Duskmantle Seer means I'm losing an average of 2 life per turn and in a deck with no Sphinx's Revelation I really cannot afford to lose life except when absolutely necessary.
I've done a small amount of testing (read: two matches) and had positive results. 2-0 against Kalonian Hydra/Exava Jund Aggro and 2-0 against Bant Hexproof. Ratchet Bomb was an all-star in both matchups. On to individual card choices:
AEtherling - Secondary win condition. Except it often ends up winning games by itself. Whatever. 2 feels like the right number. This deck has A LOT of draw power and seeing AEtherling early is a bad thing, as it is a guaranteed dead card before turn 7, and usually useless before turn 10 when I can cast him with counter or removal backup.
Augur of Bolas - Obvious choice for a deck that is nearly 50% instants/sorceries. Early blocker and lets me grab removal when I need it.
Opportunity - The closest UB has to Sphinx's Revelation. Late game card advantage. As with AEtherling, we do not want to see it early, so 2 feels like the right number
Far // Away - I love this card. Absolutely LOVE it. I can't imagine running any UB deck without 4 of them. Especially in the meta I'm in, where Predator Oozes run rampant and I need as many sac effects as possible.
Devour Flesh - Same as Far // Away, really. I'm running 3 main 1 side because 4 main feels like 2 much, but I need access to tons of sac effects to clear out the Predator Oozes that I face in 50% of my matches at my LGS.
Doom Blade - Good removal. 3 main 1 side, not sure if that's the right number but it has done fairly well so far.
Essence Scatter - Even the control decks run a fair number of creatures in this meta, so it's very rarely dead. It's also a way to get rid of Predator Ooze before it even hits the board (can you tell how much I hate Predator Ooze?).
Warped Physique - Good early or late game removal spell, can hit Predator Ooze, which I just realized. Woohoo. Mid-game it's kinda dead, as around turn 5-6 I usually don't really have many cards in my hand, but when it's good, it's great.
Tribute to Hunger - Sac effect that gains me life. Not much to say.
Psychic Strike - My only two counter spells. I chose these over Dissipate because it's easier on my mana and it mills. Maybe the exile effect is something I'll miss out on, who knows?
Mutilate - Not the BEST in this deck, as 50% of my lands are not swamps, so this rarely gets cast for more than 3. But 3 is enough to handle a lot of creatures. Delvers, Huntmasters, Olivias, Thragtusks, Flinthoof Boars, opposing Augurs, etc.
Pilfered Plans - Chosen over Divination because it mills. I think the two card mill is worth the very, very rare occasion where I get no early black sources and am unable to cast it.
Ratchet Bomb - Probably the best card in the deck. It pretty much single-handedly won me all 4 of my testing games. Against Kalonian Jund, I ticked it up to 5 without hesitation, countering and removing Battledrivers and Hydras that landed before I hit 5. Hitting 5 ended the game, as my opponent had run out of resources and only had mana elves, Ogre Battledrivers, Lightning Maulers, and Exavas to close out the game, which were all swiftly dealt with by throwing removal at them while the 5 drops sat in the hand, unable to be played. Against Bant Hexproof, ticking it up to 2 and having your opponent struggle with the threat of a bomb that can tick up again and take out GoSTs and auras, or stay at 2 and take out Strangleroots and Voices is a wonderful thing.
Land Count/Choices - 26 seems like a fairly standard number for control decks that want to hit every land drop 100% of the time, and it's worked well so far. My 13/10 swamp/island spread is mostly due to Mutilate. I went with 23 basics over 19 and 4 Drowned Catacombs partially due to budget and partially due to Burning Earth. This deck basically laughs at Burning Earth, and I would like it to stay that way. That said, if I could afford Watery Graves, I would replace 4 islands with them for better Mutilates.
Dispel - Standard sideboard card vs control. Deals with counterspells and Sphinx's Revelations.
Jace, Memory Adept - Another card vs control. Speeds up the mill clock and helps work around Pithing Needle on Drownyard.
Negate - Yet another card vs control.
Psychic Spiral - Counter-mill. One of my pet cards.
Woodlot Crawler - Blocks Predator Ooze until I can find a spell to deal with it.
Pithing Needle - For use against opposing utility lands or planeswalkers, mostly. Can also hit Olivia Voldaren if necessary, though she probably has a hard time getting big against this deck in the first place.
Cards I have considered but decided against:
Think Twice - I like it, and have found myself missing it at times, but I feel like in almost every matchup my early game is better spent casting removal spells and my late game is better spent pumping AEtherling, casting Opportunity, and Drownyarding my opponent.
Snapcaster Mage - Obviously this would be great in the deck, but I'm really neither willing nor able to spend over $18 on a single card.
Curse of Death's Hold - I feel like this is too expensive for what it does. Obviously it's wonderful against decks like Aristocrats and W/B Humans, but I'm not sure if those are prevalent enough in my meta to warrant 2-3 mainboard slots that seem better used on removal spells.
Tragic Slip - I actually haven't considered this until just now. I don't think it fits terribly well in this deck, though. Maybe I'm wrong. I dunno.
Drowned Catacombs - Makes me more vulnerable to Burning Earth, and stretches the budget a little.
Syncopate - I'd rather go with a hard counter, honestly. I feel like Psychic Strike fits this deck much better.
Forbidden Alchemy - If I were to run these, it would be over Pilfered Plans. I'm not sure whether that's right, so I went with Pilfered Plans.
Rewind - I'm not sure I want to pay 4 for a counter spell, even if I get the mana back afterwards.
Holy wall of text, Batman. Hopefully someone will read at least SOME of that.
If budget wasn't a limitation I would be running 4 Watery Graves over 4 Islands and I would find a way to fit in some Jace, Architect of Thoughts. Minus the cards I already have (which is like, one Ratchet Bomb and a few removal spells), this deck currently comes out to $35.56 on TCGPlayer.
Any advice before I get all the cards? Anyone have any experiences with UB Control they would like to share? I would very much appreciate it.
First things first, I wouldn't exactly call this "competitive". But I'm looking to improve it for play on a purely FNM level. I would never take this deck to a major tournament without expecting to lose in glorious, explosive ways. Or perhaps just getting grinded out by Jund's lifegain. Either one. Anyway, on to the deck's inner workings and individual card choices.
The deck effectively plays out like Storm. Get a Pyromancer onto the board, spam mana-generation and cheap burn/draw spells, work towards a Past in Flames, do it all again, then Burn at the Stake for like a million. Alternatively, just grind out tons of tokens and swing with Hellrider.
Card choices:
Young Pyromancer - The centerpiece of the deck; it is basically impossible to win without it, which is why the deck is not very competitive. A game without a turn 2 Pyromancer is an uphill battle, to say the least. It is very possible to win on turn 4 after a turn 2 Pyromancer, if your opening hand and first few draws are good.
Hellrider - Alternate win condition, when Burn at the Stake cannot be found, or you don't have enough creatures for it to be lethal. It's the card I'm least sure about in this deck, and I'm not adverse at all to removing it. Especially because of the fact that it's more expensive than I'd like for this deck. Removing them and replacing them with something cheaper would put the deck below $20 from TCGPlayer, including shipping, so there's one incentive to run something else.
Faithless Looting - Crucial to the deck's consistency, and to getting cards into the graveyard for Past in Flames.
Infernal Plunge - Probably my second-least-favorite card in the deck. With Pyromancer on the board, it is effectively Dark Ritual, which is not bad, but I prefer Battle Hymn in just about every way.
Krenko's Command - 3 tokens for 2 mana is really good for this deck.
Burn at the Stake - Win condition. I feel like 4 is probably too many, but 3 is probably not enough. I'm very conflicted on the exact number.
Past in Flames - Combo enabler. Generate a ton of mana (and as a byproduct, tokens), cast Past in Flames, do it all again, then Burn at the Stake for the win. I feel like 3 of is fine, because I can just draw them with Faithless Looting and immediately dump them and then flashback them later.
Shock - Not as good as Pillar, I will probably never cast it at instant speed, but it's a 1 mana spell that either kills a creature or gets me closer to winning. Not bad, not great, but the 1 mana cost I think makes it valid as a 4-of in this deck.
Pillar of Flame - If Shock is a four-of, I would probably be willing to run 8 of these. As far as I know, every red deck in the current standard meta currently runs these, so why wouldn't this one?
Battle Hymn - After playing with this, it's probably one of my favorite cards in all of standard, if not the entire game. Especially with Young Pyromancer because, as far as I know, it generates the extra token BEFORE it generates the mana. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure when you cast it, Young Pyromancer triggers, then Battle Hymn counts the creatures and resolves. Anyway, it's the primary way of generating mana, and enables combo victories as early as turn 4.
Reforge the Soul - Flashbacking this in the middle of a combo when you have no cards in your hand is very strong, but other than that, you don't really want to see this card. Giving your opponent seven cards when you aren't prepared to kill them is generally a bad idea.
22 lands - From my playtesting, it feels like the right number. Not much to say here.
Now that that's over with, anyone have any advice? Experience from playing a similar deck?
Turn // Burn was lackluster, ended up being sided out almost every match.
Against decks that relied heavily on Predator Ooze (which I played against twice out of four rounds), I sided out Putrefy then got hit with Pithing Needle, with no way to remove it other than Oblivion Ring.
The sideboard needs SERIOUS work. Notion Thief never came in because I never faced a Sphinx's Revelation deck. Skylasher never came in because I never faced a geist or delver deck. Ground Seal never came in because I never faced a reanimator deck. Cremate was lackluster. Rakdos Keyrune was lackluster.
I had trouble dealing with Assemble the Legion.
Too many games with not enough land.
Too weak to Predator Ooze, which as mentioned earlier, is very prevalent at the store I go to.
Good things:
Warleader's Helix, Far // Away, Fog, Riot Control, Urban Evolution, Supreme Verdict, Saruli Gatekeepers, and Elixir of Immortality were all incredible.
Aggro and burn were tough, but I ended up coming out ahead because of the lifegain, board wipes, and fog effects.
I won against the decks that didn't run Predator Ooze.
It stands up very, very well to midrange and slower aggro lists, but folds to RG Aggro and Naya Blitz. It has a meh matchup against control, but I'm mostly looking to improve the aggro matchup.
Card choices:
Aurelia, the Warleader: I really like her as a 1-of finisher. She typically ends games on the turn that she lands, and if she doesn't she's a 3/4 blocker that does 6 damage a turn. I think 1 is the right number, and it's hard to imagine playing this deck without her.
Assemble the Legion: This card is the weakest link against aggro, but it's sooooo strong against midrange and control. It comes out in favor of Blasphemous Act in the sideboard against aggro, but against control and midrange a single one will typically end the game.
Tragic Slip: This is a very strong early defense against aggro and it's great at taking out Huntmasters in the midrange matchup.
Warleader's Helix: I know how controversial this card is, but it has worked wonders for me. It typically means an extra turn against aggro, which can mean the difference between a win and a loss. It can also take out a flipped Huntmaster and even out the life that it gained the opponent and damage it dealt to me. I initially had 4 Krenko's Commands in this slot, but I desperately needed the lifegain to function against aggro. The deck has performed significantly better since I made this change.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad: I think 4 is the right number of Sorin, because I want to see him pretty much every game and he often ignores the legend rule by killing himself to make a second emblem, which I've found is typically much more important than dropping vampire tokens every turn. Turn 4 Sorin, drop emblem, turn 5 vampire, turn 6 drop emblem, another Sorin, drop another emblem is pretty brutal.
Dreadbore: Incredibly powerful, cheap removal that also deals with opposing planeswalkers that cause me trouble *coughjacecough* seems too good not to run 4 of. I want to see them in multiples pretty much every game.
Gather the Townsfolk: I think this card is by far the weakest in the deck. It really just doesn't do a whole lot without Champion of the Parish, which I don't think fits very well in a token deck. With an Intangible Virtue out the tokens brick wall Huntmaster before the flip, but that's dependent on a second card just to make this stand up to a single card. I'm thinking of replacing them with Boros Reckoners, but I'm not sure.
Beckon Apparition: I'm not entirely sure about this card. I haven't played the reanimator matchup yet, surprisingly, so I don't know quite how good it is. It seems strong, though. Countering an Unburial Rites and getting a token for one mana looks good.
Blasphemous Act: This was previously 3 Devour Fleshes, but Devour Flesh didn't improve the aggro matchup enough. My only problem with Blasphemous Act is that I really can't bring it in against decks with Boros Reckoner, which seems to be entirely too common for my liking. Other than that, it has done fairly well.
Overall, the deck has performed fairly well so far.
My number 1 question is this: Should I replace Gather the Townsfolk with Boros Reckoners? I feel like it would shore up my issues in the aggro matchup, but make me slightly weaker to midrange and control. I'm not sure though. Thanks in advance, and I'm very glad there's finally a thread for this deck type.
Arbor Elf - Turn 1 board presence and mana ramp. Split 50/50 with Avacyn's because I'm not entirely sure which is better for my deck.
Avacyn's Pilgrim - Same as Arbor Elf
Centaur Healer - Incredible against aggro, this card is basically the sole reason I am running white. I know the MTGO meta game has a very large RDW presence and Centaur Healer does miracles to keep me alive long enough to win the race.
Dreg Mangler - And this card is basically the sole reason I'm running black. 3/3 haste for 3 is insane.
Lotleth Troll - I feel like Lotleth Troll is one of the weaker cards in my deck, but it still occasionally gets really big, and it synergizes well with Dreg Mangler in the late game, if it comes to that.
Loxodon Smiter - 4/4 for 3. Not much besides that to say. It has conditional upsides, as well, which are nice, but I would still probably run it if it were a vanilla creature.
Silverblade Paladin - Silverblade Paladin is the newest additiont to my decklist, and I have not gotten to test it yet. I wanted to test it out, mostly because I've gotten dominated by it in a few matches. I would be open to replacing it with something else, mostly because it's pretty damned expensive x_x.
Strangleroot Geist - Strangleroot Geist into Dreg Mangler is the strongest play this deck can make, and allows for the occasional turn 5 win. The double green cost for the Geist might seem a bit bad, but it gets cast on turn two pretty much any time it's in my hand.
Vampire Nighthawk - Another card with a bit of an awkward mana cost. This one sometimes doesn't manage to come out on turn 3. However, it quickly becomes the driving force behind the entire deck when I don't win by turn 6, as the Lifelink and Deathtouch help keep me alive against bigger creatures like Thragtusk.
Rancor - I feel like Rancor doesn't need much explanation. It fits very well in basically any aggro green deck.
Abrupt Decay - A random 1 of that I wouldn't be too adverse to removing. It's mostly there as filler, but it comes in handy sometimes.
Selesnya Charm - I really like Selesnya charm, because it feels like all of its abilities are relevant. The +2/+2 and Trample can close games unexpectedly, the exile ability gets rid of those pesky Thragtusks before they can do too much damage, and the token fills in my 2 drop slot when I can't hit a Strangleroot Geist.
The deck literally wins every single game on turn 5 or 6 in solitaire. I know that's not saying much, but it feels impressive to me. The thing I need most help with, however, is the sideboard. I really have no idea what to run, besides maybe Knight of Infamy and Knight of Glory.
I don't have any of the more expensive cards yet like Huntmaster of the Fells, Copperline Gorge, and Rootbound Crag. Most of my cards are leftovers from playing limited. It seems to work pretty well against everything I've faced except White spirits/tokens.
I'm really liking Young Wolf, and I have to wonder why it's not used more often. Immerwolf and transformed Mayor of Avabruck both buff it, and it works really well alongside Reckless Waif to get early momentum. Daybreak Ranger seems to be the only thing that keeps me alive against spirits, so I'll probably pick up 2 more and sideboard them. I don't get to use Kruin Outlaw nearly as much as I'd like, though that'll probably change once I get the dual lands.
So clearly I'm scum period end of story according to you two, why am I not already being lynched?
As for Sepiriel, I did completely forget about him on my list. I don't know why I didn't remember, especially considering I was looking at the player list on the first page to make sure I got everyone.
Sepiriel is neutral in my book. As I said earlier, if he's town, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place because of the way LuckNorris replaced out. I can see justification for the way he's playing from both a town point of view and a scum point of view.
Stating that we're playing close to the same way=/=tying you to me.
Can someone (and by that I mean you or Iso) point to the post where I claim to ‘know’ something about alignment for certain? This really feels like you just latched onto his comment but can’t back it up.
AFAIK Iso said that he thinks that you know something, not stating that you stated that you know something. I disagreed with him.
Tacking on my updated scum list here.
Town:
-Iso - The big post back on page 46 really made me view him as town, more so than anyone else at this point.
-Artifice 101 - I've had this opinion since right after the RVS ended and the soft claim debate started. Artifice has been actively scumhunting and seems really pro-town right now.
Leaning Town:
-Ormagoden - His attempts to get me to post more often and his enthusiasm for just playing the game makes me think town. Not as sure about him as I am about Iso or Artifice 101, though.
Neutral:
-indomitablebug - I thought he was scummy at the beginning, and he's been acting more towny lately. I don't have a solid read one way or the other.
-Ambassador Laquatus - Was going to go in leaning town until the most recent posts. He seems to be actively trying to distance himself from anyone and anything, and overreacting to certain things.
-MandersHex - Overaggressive and overreacts to a lot of things, gets angry a lot, a fair amount of her posts contain noticeable amounts of "****". For the most part, needs to calm down so people (not just myself, seeing as how she's at 0 in Iso's list of lists) can get a good read one way or the other.
-Yanni - Disruptive, but doesn't seem to be playing actively town or scum. Seems to want a lynch really bad, and is planning future lynches before we have information from the first lynch. The "if niko is scum lynch prpl, if niko is town lynch prpl" statement annoys me.
-The Ice King - As far as I'm concerned, The Ice King has a clean slate from me until he catches up and has more time to actively post here.
-pinkfloyd - Don't have a solid read. Plain and simple.
Leaning Scum:
-MandersHex, Yanni, and Ambassador Laquatus were all almost here, but they've all done (or not done, in Ambassador Laquatus's case) something that made me unsure.
Scum:
-Nikomaru - Iso really brought Nikomaru to my attention. Seeing his weird list and his overreactions in the last few pages makes me think scum for sure.
As you can see, yours, truly is smack in the middle of the list.
Now, the point of this list is as follows:
The players at the top of it are considered universally town, for the most part, whereas the players at the very bottom are considered more heavily scum than others. Let's take a look at the implications.
Ormagoden and indomitablebug, the two towniest amongst us, lop 3 of the same people into leaning or heavy scum, namely Yanni, Prplcheez, and The Ice King.
Understandable. I can see how my actions (or lack thereof) can be seen as scummy. Yanni's general disruption of the game causes people to want to be rid of him, even though I'm sure some people don't really think he's scum. I don't understand why people are freaking out about The Ice King when he hasn't had a chance to do anything yet.
Ambassador Laquatus, who follows after with a whopping 10 town points (of a possible 22), also puts The Ice King and Prplcheez into his scum list. Based on his other opinions, I'm inclined to believe that he has something he knows but is not telling us. But I'm sure he'll reveal it with time if he gets the opportunity to and feels it will benefit town to do so.
Someone else pointed out earlier that Ambassador Laquatus hasn't been posting nearly as much as most other people, similar to myself. I don't think it's possible for him to know anything unless he's a mason or scum, as there hasn't been a night phase yet for investigations or role blocking.
pinkfloyd, following that, ALSO has 3 of the 4 in his scum list, Prplcheez, The Ice King, and Yanni.
Are you seeing a trend here?
People by and large have the same opinion. Not surprising, as I'm sure some people's lists have been corrupted by the lists of those who posted before them.
The players who are most believed as town have the same opinion on the players with the LEAST town credibility.
Next, we have Nikomaru. What's this?
Nikomaru has 4 players strongly seen as town in his scum list, and one with no town points (though no negative points, either; Manders) there as well. The only thing that matches is Sepiriel in his leaning scum list, and that was more of a guess to what he meant by "sneaky" in his post. He could very well have Sepiriel as neutral or even town in his mind. Nikomaru, please clarify if you would like. The other three prime scumspects (like my made-up word there?) are neutral or town to him. This makes me want to IGMEOY, Niko.
Honestly something I never would've thought of, or put enough time into thinking about. After seeing this, I do see Nikomaru being pretty scummy.
Then, there's good ol' Iso. My list, interestingly enough, almost exactly reflects the general consensus of how people are feeling about everyone. I'm okay with that, as it just tells me I've been paying attention.
More than I can say for myself.
MandersHex is the last person we have before we get into the negative numbers. And she has 2 of the 4 prime scumspects in her scum list.
Let's analyze this.
Ormagoden - Prplcheez, Yanni, Sepiriel, The Ice King
indomitablebug - Prplcheez, The Ice King, Yanni
Ambassador Laquatus - The Ice King, Prplcheez
pinkfloyd - Prplcheez, The Ice King, Yanni
Artifice 101 - Prplcheez, Sepiriel
Nikomaru - Sepiriel
Iso - Yanni, Prplcheez, The Ice King, Sepiriel
MandersHex - Prplcheez, Yanni
So that's: Prplcheez - 7 counts
The Ice King - 5 counts
Yanni - 5 counts
Sepiriel - 4 counts
Now let's take a look at how the scummier players have voted/interacted with the other players.
Again, only the suspicion of The Ice King strikes me as unusual. I'm barely playing, it's obvious people would think I'm scummy. Sepiriel is playing super passively, and Yanni is disrupting the game like crazy. Honestly, Zebi struck me as town before he replaced out. Why are people so suspicious of TIK?
YANNI:
Has voted:
Heavy town - pinkfloyd, indomitablebug, Artifice 101, Ambassador Laquatus, Nikomaru
Leaning town - The Ice King, Ormagoden
Neutral - Prplcheez
Leaning scum - Sepiriel, Iso, MandersHex
I feel like a lot of Yanni's scum points come from his general disruption upon entering the game, but seeing that he's been trying so hard to paint me as scum, too, in his last couple of posts, my opinion on him stands. The tiff between he and Manders seemed genuine, so I'm willing to see his vote on Manders as hoping someone just might jump on that wagon. As for Sepiriel, well, Sepiriel appears scummy to a lot of people and he could just be bussing him. And I'm not even going to acknowledge the vote on me because I have 14 more town points than Yanni.
Now let's look at his town list. It seems a little too perfect for someone regarded as so scummy. So I smell a rat, and my FOS goes to Nikomaru for that (for aforementioned reasons, and Ambassador Laquatus's vote on him being scummy).
Nothing to say about Yanni that I haven't already said.
Next, we have
SEPIRIEL:
Has voted:
Leaning town - indomitablebug, Ormagoden, pinkfloyd
Neutral - Ambassador Laquatus, Iso, MandersHex, Nikomaru, The Ice King
Leaning scum - Artifice 101
Heavy scum - Yanni
Voted as/by:
Leaning town - The Ice King
Neutral - MandersHex, Prplcheez, Ambassador Laquatus, indomitablebug, pinkfloyd
Leaning scum - Ormagoden, Yanni, Nikomaru
Heavy scum - Artifice 101, Iso
Town points: -6
Sepiriel came into the game in a tough spot. He had to make up for LuckNorris's incompetence. So instantly, suspicion was cast upon him. The only person who thinks Sep is remotely town is, oops, The Ice King, who is on a very slippery slope thanks to Zebi (and in my eyes to me for also trying to paint me as scum, I can see Yanni and The Ice King hoping some people will pick up on their wagon and lynch me) and also one of the least town-credible players in this game at this point. Sepiriel's list seems genuine, however, so The Ice King could be attempting to cast suspicion by taking advantage of the fact that he's one of the players highly regarded as scum in the game. This leads me to believe, unlike my prior belief, that Sepiriel is indeed town, which casts Nikomaru even more under my scum spotlight.
I agree Sepiriel came into the game in a really bad way. I like that most people gave him a mostly clean slate upon entering, despite LuckNorris's incredibly scummy actions. Sepiriel's extremely passive play so far is probably why he's so far down on the list. I think he's stuck between a rock and a hard place in his play at the moment though. If he is really active and scumhunting like Yanni people might think he is scum trying to act like town, and if he's really passive and out of the way, people might think he's scum trying to hide.
I'd have to agree that Sepiriel is probably town.
Now let's take a look at Prplcheez.
PRPLCHEEZ:
Has voted:
Leaning town - Artifice 101, Ormagoden
Neutral - Ambassador Laquatus, indomitablebug, Iso, Nikomaru, pinkfloyd, Sepiriel, The Ice King
Leaning scum - Yanni, MandersHex
Voted as/by:
Heavy town - Nikomaru
Neutral - Yanni, Sepiriel
Leaning scum - Iso, Ambassador Laquatus, indomitablebug, Ormagoden, MandersHex, Artifice 101, pinkfloyd, The Ice King
Town points: -6
Another genuine-seeming list, though it's disconcerting that the only person who actually pegged Prpl as town is Nikomaru. However, nobody has flat out said "PRPLCHEEZ IS SCUM". We just seem to think he's scummy because of his lack of posts and his lack of content, WHICH HE IS MORE THAN WELCOME TO PROVIDE UPON READING THIS COUGH COUGH. So I'm less inclined to believe that Prplcheez is scum, though as I said, Nikomaru's vote concerns me. So IGMEOY, too, Prplcheez.
Nikomaru saying that I'm town concerns me as well. I never noticed that until now. I agree to the reasoning why people think I'm scum, I would think I'm scum too if I didn't know that I wasn't. Wow that was confusing.
I don't know if this is what you wanted in terms of content, but I'm sure it's better than me not posting at all.
Finally, The Ice King, who has scored the least scum points of the scummy 4:
THE ICE KING:
Has voted:
Heavy town - MandersHex, indomitablebug, Ormagoden
Leaning town - Yanni, Artifice 101, Sepiriel
Neutral - Ambassador Laquatus, Nikomaru
Leaning scum - Prplcheez, pinkfloyd
Heavy scum - Iso
Really, really seems in cahoots with Yanni, Mr. #1 scummy player. Zebi really messed things up early on for TIK, but honestly, the fact that he has Yanni AND Sepiriel as leaning town sends up all kinds of red flags. Prplcheez seemed like the opportunistic wagon to jump on, so he took it for regarding scum. And of course, wanted to buddy up with Yanni against me. I'm guessing pinkfloyd is just a placefiller for someone he could possibly paint as scum, and I'm willing to accept his vote for Manders as town as just "I know Manders's meta, so there's no harm in buddying up to her by declaring her town, because when I do that, she'll likely trust me."
I just think people need to give TIK a break while he catches up. 4 games is a lot to handle, on top of reading one from the beginning.
So, that's about it for the time being. My scum suspects are now:
The Ice King, Yanni, Nikomaru
This is the lynching order I propose.
Would like to hear input from everyone on this.
Also, power roles could drastically change this list. I suspect one of my scum guesses may be off, so even if we lynch these 3, there's a chance one of the townier/neutral players are doing a good job of flying under the radar. I will post a part 2, 3, etc. to this analysis when power roles are outed *coughArtificecough* and when the person I'm suspecting as the third possible scum (the under the radar one) slips up, I'll be sure to comment on that, as well.
Good luck, town. Use this post to the best of your ability. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
If we have to lynch one of those 3 today, I'd say Nikomaru. Nikomaru has been spending so little time actually playing the game and yet still seems actively scummy, unlike myself, who seems passively scummy (in my opinion).
I'm really confused as to why Artifice claimed he was a power role.
I'll continue reading the rest of the thread now and post an updated scum list and probably vote when I'm done/
Sorry Prplcheez; i know you only respond to question directed at you :-/. So what do you think of the whole Manders v. Yanni thing. Also are you still voting for Zebi?
I'm very thoroughly annoyed by it. This is what, 10 or so pages now they've filled up with their arguments where they both just say the same thing over and over and over again? As for the Zebi thing, I don't recall having voted for Zebi at any point.
Sorry that was a bit wordy. I don't really have much else to say about what's going on right now, I've been waiting for Prplcheez to post more (I saw him reading the thread yesterday yet he did not post) so I can analyze more of what he says. So unless something is directed at me or someone says something I feel needs to be addressed, I'm just waiting right now.
Simply waiting for me to post isn't going to get me to post. And I'm not going to post every time I read the thread, that's just spam, considering I read several times a day. I'm only going to post when someone asks me a question or I see something worth responding to. Up until the above post from Ormagoden (who is the only one who is successfully getting me to post, you might wanna learn something from him), I saw nothing worth responding to.
I've considered more Mutilate. I'm still not sure it's ideal until I can get Watery Graves. Cyclonic Rift is something I hadn't thought about, and it is definitely something I'll look at in the future, if I have trouble with Planeswalkers.
Duskmantle Seer speeds the game up by causing both players to lose life. The draw aspect has nothing to do with it. The average CMC in this deck is 1.8. Duskmantle Seer means I'm losing an average of 2 life per turn and in a deck with no Sphinx's Revelation I really cannot afford to lose life except when absolutely necessary.
2 AEtherling
3 Augur of Bolas
2 Opportunity
4 Far // Away
3 Devour Flesh
3 Doom Blade
2 Essence Scatter
2 Warped Physique
2 Tribute to Hunger
2 Psychic Strike
4 Pilfered Plans
3 Ratchet Bomb
13 Swamp
10 Island
3 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Devour Flesh
2 Dispel
1 Doom Blade
2 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Negate
1 Psychic Spiral
2 Woodlot Crawler
2 Pithing Needle
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Mutilate
I've done a small amount of testing (read: two matches) and had positive results. 2-0 against Kalonian Hydra/Exava Jund Aggro and 2-0 against Bant Hexproof. Ratchet Bomb was an all-star in both matchups. On to individual card choices:
Cards I have considered but decided against:
Holy wall of text, Batman. Hopefully someone will read at least SOME of that.
If budget wasn't a limitation I would be running 4 Watery Graves over 4 Islands and I would find a way to fit in some Jace, Architect of Thoughts. Minus the cards I already have (which is like, one Ratchet Bomb and a few removal spells), this deck currently comes out to $35.56 on TCGPlayer.
Any advice before I get all the cards? Anyone have any experiences with UB Control they would like to share? I would very much appreciate it.
Thanks in advance.
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Hellrider
4 Faithless Looting
4 Infernal Plunge
4 Krenko's Command
3 Burn at the Stake
3 Past in Flames
4 Shock
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Battle Hymn
2 Reforge the Soul
First things first, I wouldn't exactly call this "competitive". But I'm looking to improve it for play on a purely FNM level. I would never take this deck to a major tournament without expecting to lose in glorious, explosive ways. Or perhaps just getting grinded out by Jund's lifegain. Either one. Anyway, on to the deck's inner workings and individual card choices.
The deck effectively plays out like Storm. Get a Pyromancer onto the board, spam mana-generation and cheap burn/draw spells, work towards a Past in Flames, do it all again, then Burn at the Stake for like a million. Alternatively, just grind out tons of tokens and swing with Hellrider.
Card choices:
Now that that's over with, anyone have any advice? Experience from playing a similar deck?
Thanks in advance.
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
4 Maze's End
4 Gatecreeper Vine
3 Urban Evolution
4 Warleader's Helix
3 Far // Away
3 Turn // Burn
4 Fog
4 Riot Control
3 Putrefy
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Elixir of Immortality
3 Notion Thief
1 Rakdos Keyrune
2 Skylasher
2 Ground Seal
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Cremate
2 Blasphemous Act
My complaints:
Good things:
My proposed changes:
-3 Turn // Burn
-3 Putrefy
-2 Elixir of Immortality
+1 Far // Away
+2 Dreadbore
+2 Doom Blade
+1 Devour Flesh
+2 Forest
Sideboard:
-1 Rakdos Keyrune
-2 Skylasher
-2 Ground Seal
-2 Cremate
-2 Blasphemous Act
+2 Oblivion Ring
+3 Wear // Tear
+2 Elixir of Immortality
+1 Scavenging Ooze
+1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
Enchantments:
3 Assemble the Legion
4 Intangible Virtue
Instants/Sorceries:
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Tragic Slip
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Dreadbore
4 Gather the Townsfolk
4 Lingering Souls
4 Blood Crypt
4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Dragonskull Summit
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Vault of the Archangel
Planeswalkers:
4 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
4 Beckon Apparition
3 Appetite for Brains
3 Blasphemous Act
3 Duress
2 Slaughter Games
It stands up very, very well to midrange and slower aggro lists, but folds to RG Aggro and Naya Blitz. It has a meh matchup against control, but I'm mostly looking to improve the aggro matchup.
Card choices:
Assemble the Legion: This card is the weakest link against aggro, but it's sooooo strong against midrange and control. It comes out in favor of Blasphemous Act in the sideboard against aggro, but against control and midrange a single one will typically end the game.
Tragic Slip: This is a very strong early defense against aggro and it's great at taking out Huntmasters in the midrange matchup.
Warleader's Helix: I know how controversial this card is, but it has worked wonders for me. It typically means an extra turn against aggro, which can mean the difference between a win and a loss. It can also take out a flipped Huntmaster and even out the life that it gained the opponent and damage it dealt to me. I initially had 4 Krenko's Commands in this slot, but I desperately needed the lifegain to function against aggro. The deck has performed significantly better since I made this change.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad: I think 4 is the right number of Sorin, because I want to see him pretty much every game and he often ignores the legend rule by killing himself to make a second emblem, which I've found is typically much more important than dropping vampire tokens every turn. Turn 4 Sorin, drop emblem, turn 5 vampire, turn 6 drop emblem, another Sorin, drop another emblem is pretty brutal.
Dreadbore: Incredibly powerful, cheap removal that also deals with opposing planeswalkers that cause me trouble *coughjacecough* seems too good not to run 4 of. I want to see them in multiples pretty much every game.
Gather the Townsfolk: I think this card is by far the weakest in the deck. It really just doesn't do a whole lot without Champion of the Parish, which I don't think fits very well in a token deck. With an Intangible Virtue out the tokens brick wall Huntmaster before the flip, but that's dependent on a second card just to make this stand up to a single card. I'm thinking of replacing them with Boros Reckoners, but I'm not sure.
Beckon Apparition: I'm not entirely sure about this card. I haven't played the reanimator matchup yet, surprisingly, so I don't know quite how good it is. It seems strong, though. Countering an Unburial Rites and getting a token for one mana looks good.
Blasphemous Act: This was previously 3 Devour Fleshes, but Devour Flesh didn't improve the aggro matchup enough. My only problem with Blasphemous Act is that I really can't bring it in against decks with Boros Reckoner, which seems to be entirely too common for my liking. Other than that, it has done fairly well.
Overall, the deck has performed fairly well so far.
My number 1 question is this: Should I replace Gather the Townsfolk with Boros Reckoners? I feel like it would shore up my issues in the aggro matchup, but make me slightly weaker to midrange and control. I'm not sure though. Thanks in advance, and I'm very glad there's finally a thread for this deck type.
2x Arbor Elf
2x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Centaur Healer
4x Dreg Mangler
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Loxodon Smiter
2x Silverblade Paladin
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Vampire Nighthawk
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Selesnya Charm
6x Forest
3x Plains
4x Sunpetal Grove
6x Swamp
4x Woodland Cemetery
Card Choices
Arbor Elf - Turn 1 board presence and mana ramp. Split 50/50 with Avacyn's because I'm not entirely sure which is better for my deck.
Avacyn's Pilgrim - Same as Arbor Elf
Centaur Healer - Incredible against aggro, this card is basically the sole reason I am running white. I know the MTGO meta game has a very large RDW presence and Centaur Healer does miracles to keep me alive long enough to win the race.
Dreg Mangler - And this card is basically the sole reason I'm running black. 3/3 haste for 3 is insane.
Lotleth Troll - I feel like Lotleth Troll is one of the weaker cards in my deck, but it still occasionally gets really big, and it synergizes well with Dreg Mangler in the late game, if it comes to that.
Loxodon Smiter - 4/4 for 3. Not much besides that to say. It has conditional upsides, as well, which are nice, but I would still probably run it if it were a vanilla creature.
Silverblade Paladin - Silverblade Paladin is the newest additiont to my decklist, and I have not gotten to test it yet. I wanted to test it out, mostly because I've gotten dominated by it in a few matches. I would be open to replacing it with something else, mostly because it's pretty damned expensive x_x.
Strangleroot Geist - Strangleroot Geist into Dreg Mangler is the strongest play this deck can make, and allows for the occasional turn 5 win. The double green cost for the Geist might seem a bit bad, but it gets cast on turn two pretty much any time it's in my hand.
Vampire Nighthawk - Another card with a bit of an awkward mana cost. This one sometimes doesn't manage to come out on turn 3. However, it quickly becomes the driving force behind the entire deck when I don't win by turn 6, as the Lifelink and Deathtouch help keep me alive against bigger creatures like Thragtusk.
Rancor - I feel like Rancor doesn't need much explanation. It fits very well in basically any aggro green deck.
Abrupt Decay - A random 1 of that I wouldn't be too adverse to removing. It's mostly there as filler, but it comes in handy sometimes.
Selesnya Charm - I really like Selesnya charm, because it feels like all of its abilities are relevant. The +2/+2 and Trample can close games unexpectedly, the exile ability gets rid of those pesky Thragtusks before they can do too much damage, and the token fills in my 2 drop slot when I can't hit a Strangleroot Geist.
The deck literally wins every single game on turn 5 or 6 in solitaire. I know that's not saying much, but it feels impressive to me. The thing I need most help with, however, is the sideboard. I really have no idea what to run, besides maybe Knight of Infamy and Knight of Glory.
Thanks in advance for the help!
2 Daybreak Ranger
4 Immerwolf
3 Instigator Gang
3 Kruin Outlaw
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Reckless Waif
2 Wolfbitten Captive
2 Young Wolf
4 Full Moon's Rise
3 Incinerate
1 Lead the Stampede
4 Moonmist
Land
2 Kessig Wolf Run
11 Forest
11 Mountain
I don't have any of the more expensive cards yet like Huntmaster of the Fells, Copperline Gorge, and Rootbound Crag. Most of my cards are leftovers from playing limited. It seems to work pretty well against everything I've faced except White spirits/tokens.
I'm really liking Young Wolf, and I have to wonder why it's not used more often. Immerwolf and transformed Mayor of Avabruck both buff it, and it works really well alongside Reckless Waif to get early momentum. Daybreak Ranger seems to be the only thing that keeps me alive against spirits, so I'll probably pick up 2 more and sideboard them. I don't get to use Kruin Outlaw nearly as much as I'd like, though that'll probably change once I get the dual lands.
/replace
"if niko is scum prplcheez is scum"
"if yanni is scum prplcheez is scum"
So clearly I'm scum period end of story according to you two, why am I not already being lynched?
As for Sepiriel, I did completely forget about him on my list. I don't know why I didn't remember, especially considering I was looking at the player list on the first page to make sure I got everyone.
Sepiriel is neutral in my book. As I said earlier, if he's town, he's stuck between a rock and a hard place because of the way LuckNorris replaced out. I can see justification for the way he's playing from both a town point of view and a scum point of view.
Stating that we're playing close to the same way=/=tying you to me.
AFAIK Iso said that he thinks that you know something, not stating that you stated that you know something. I disagreed with him.
Tacking on my updated scum list here.
Town:
-Iso - The big post back on page 46 really made me view him as town, more so than anyone else at this point.
-Artifice 101 - I've had this opinion since right after the RVS ended and the soft claim debate started. Artifice has been actively scumhunting and seems really pro-town right now.
Leaning Town:
-Ormagoden - His attempts to get me to post more often and his enthusiasm for just playing the game makes me think town. Not as sure about him as I am about Iso or Artifice 101, though.
Neutral:
-indomitablebug - I thought he was scummy at the beginning, and he's been acting more towny lately. I don't have a solid read one way or the other.
-Ambassador Laquatus - Was going to go in leaning town until the most recent posts. He seems to be actively trying to distance himself from anyone and anything, and overreacting to certain things.
-MandersHex - Overaggressive and overreacts to a lot of things, gets angry a lot, a fair amount of her posts contain noticeable amounts of "****". For the most part, needs to calm down so people (not just myself, seeing as how she's at 0 in Iso's list of lists) can get a good read one way or the other.
-Yanni - Disruptive, but doesn't seem to be playing actively town or scum. Seems to want a lynch really bad, and is planning future lynches before we have information from the first lynch. The "if niko is scum lynch prpl, if niko is town lynch prpl" statement annoys me.
-The Ice King - As far as I'm concerned, The Ice King has a clean slate from me until he catches up and has more time to actively post here.
-pinkfloyd - Don't have a solid read. Plain and simple.
Leaning Scum:
-MandersHex, Yanni, and Ambassador Laquatus were all almost here, but they've all done (or not done, in Ambassador Laquatus's case) something that made me unsure.
Scum:
-Nikomaru - Iso really brought Nikomaru to my attention. Seeing his weird list and his overreactions in the last few pages makes me think scum for sure.
There. I posted reasons this time, too.
Vote: Nikomaru
I'll go out on a limb and say neither. Maybe I don't understand my own motivations or actions, but I'm fairly sure I'm not doing either of these.
Somewhere between pages 40 and 46.
When I have more than an hour to spend on the forum, I'll try.
Snipping out parts that are purely statistical and not terribly worth responding to.
Understandable. I can see how my actions (or lack thereof) can be seen as scummy. Yanni's general disruption of the game causes people to want to be rid of him, even though I'm sure some people don't really think he's scum. I don't understand why people are freaking out about The Ice King when he hasn't had a chance to do anything yet.
Someone else pointed out earlier that Ambassador Laquatus hasn't been posting nearly as much as most other people, similar to myself. I don't think it's possible for him to know anything unless he's a mason or scum, as there hasn't been a night phase yet for investigations or role blocking.
People by and large have the same opinion. Not surprising, as I'm sure some people's lists have been corrupted by the lists of those who posted before them.
Honestly something I never would've thought of, or put enough time into thinking about. After seeing this, I do see Nikomaru being pretty scummy.
More than I can say for myself.
Again, only the suspicion of The Ice King strikes me as unusual. I'm barely playing, it's obvious people would think I'm scummy. Sepiriel is playing super passively, and Yanni is disrupting the game like crazy. Honestly, Zebi struck me as town before he replaced out. Why are people so suspicious of TIK?
Nothing to say about Yanni that I haven't already said.
I agree Sepiriel came into the game in a really bad way. I like that most people gave him a mostly clean slate upon entering, despite LuckNorris's incredibly scummy actions. Sepiriel's extremely passive play so far is probably why he's so far down on the list. I think he's stuck between a rock and a hard place in his play at the moment though. If he is really active and scumhunting like Yanni people might think he is scum trying to act like town, and if he's really passive and out of the way, people might think he's scum trying to hide.
I'd have to agree that Sepiriel is probably town.
Nikomaru saying that I'm town concerns me as well. I never noticed that until now. I agree to the reasoning why people think I'm scum, I would think I'm scum too if I didn't know that I wasn't. Wow that was confusing.
I don't know if this is what you wanted in terms of content, but I'm sure it's better than me not posting at all.
I just think people need to give TIK a break while he catches up. 4 games is a lot to handle, on top of reading one from the beginning.
If we have to lynch one of those 3 today, I'd say Nikomaru. Nikomaru has been spending so little time actually playing the game and yet still seems actively scummy, unlike myself, who seems passively scummy (in my opinion).
I'm really confused as to why Artifice claimed he was a power role.
I'll continue reading the rest of the thread now and post an updated scum list and probably vote when I'm done/
If I go that long without being able to post again, I'll replace out if people want me to.
Leaning town: Artifice 101, Ormagoden
Neutral: Ambassador Laquatus, indomitablebug, Iso, Nikomaru, pinkfloyd, Sepiriel, The Ice King
Leaning scum: Yanni, MandersHex
Neutral are people I haven't seen enough from to have a solid read. No town/scum list because I can't possibly be sure that someone is town or scum.
I'm very thoroughly annoyed by it. This is what, 10 or so pages now they've filled up with their arguments where they both just say the same thing over and over and over again? As for the Zebi thing, I don't recall having voted for Zebi at any point.
Snipping.
Simply waiting for me to post isn't going to get me to post. And I'm not going to post every time I read the thread, that's just spam, considering I read several times a day. I'm only going to post when someone asks me a question or I see something worth responding to. Up until the above post from Ormagoden (who is the only one who is successfully getting me to post, you might wanna learn something from him), I saw nothing worth responding to.