Quote from CzYour generic creature evaluation "algorithm" is completely useless in my mind. Virtually every creature fails it and it has almost no value in that respect. Evaluating drawbacks and upsides is completely subjective and meta/format dependent. You provide no evidence as to why Fauna's Shaman's upside or Wren's downside are acceptable and thus make the card playable. You provide an opinion, but it's just that, an opinion. If I could easily gather some form of evidence to base my opinion on, that might help me. What doesn't help me is the biased opinion of myself/some random stranger with unknown credibility. I'm not saying that you're wrong or right about how playable those cards are, but how does that help me exactly? Can't I simply argue that Wellwisher is acceptable because gaining life ruins burn-based strategies and makes racing creature-based decks much more safe and simple? Also, if the ultimate test is subjective and not objective, why am I even doing the math to begin with? What's the point if it has no real meaning at the end of the day? Your method is overly simplistic and doesn't represent a useful metric to use when evaluating a creature a huge % of the time. The printed text is typically much more important than the little numbers at the bottom right hand corner. You're dumbing the game down without actually providing people with useful advice in my opinion.
As for your table, it seems incredibly inaccurate at best. How many 1 mana spells destroy a creature at virtually no downside? 1? Swords to Plowshares? Unless we're throwing things like Ghastly Demise, Innocent Blood and PtE in there, basically no spell actually meets that criteria. What spell discards 3 cards for 3 mana exactly? Delirium Skeins certainly doesn't qualify, unless 3-for-4ing yourself is generically profitable all of the sudden. Other than Hymn, what does 2 for 2? MAYBE Wrench Mind? As for draw, where do you get 2 for 2 and 3 for 3? Are there ANY? Thirst for Knowledge and Compulsive Research certainly don't fit those criteria after all. Heck, where can I get 4 for 4 for that matter? Pray that my Fact or Fiction goes real deep every time? Most of your numbers seem completely off.
Thanks for the feedback. It is hard to come up with a formula for what is playable/unplayable. That said how many examples of creatures can you think of that pass my test and aren't actually playable? How many can you think of that fail it and are?
If your 1cc kill spell doesn't kill 1 creature then why are you playing it and what does it do? See you have to think about the numbers a bit before complaining.
For 2cc discard you need to be getting 2 cards or it isn't playable. Ex Hymn is playable, Distress isn't.
For draw I can't think of any 2cc spell that is playable aside from Life from the loam which draws 3. At 3cc Compulsive research and Thirst both do draw 3 cards so... yeah.
If goblins wanted a raging goblin with a tiny upside they would play Goblin Guide.
I have to agree. 2 mana for 3 damage is not good. The can't gain life thing is almost never relevant. Sulfuric Vortex is usually a sideboard card for burn, and this doesn't even come close to doing the same thing as that.
Someone actually said it would replace Keldon marauders earlier in this thread. Really? Keldon marauders is usually 5 damage for 2 mana + a blocker for a turn. 8 damage if he has haste for some reason.
Hellspark Elemental is usually 6 damage for 2 mana. Lightning bolt is 3 for 1 mana. As are a ton of other spells. That card is barely even standard playable. It can't even target a creature.
Probably the best player I have ever seen, and in comparison to a lot of other people in that tournament that were on camera in earlier rounds he just looked like a monster. He was right when he said there are a lot of misplays in Legacy caught on camera. I could probably point out 2-3 from every game of every match that tournament. Except that one.
I can't remember a single time I saw Joe make a misplay. In fact he was making plays that I didn't see which was super awesome. I felt like I got better just watching that match, and was hoping he would notice the 1 card stuck in the opponents hand and not walk into the spell pierce.
Modern has all of the types of decks I like to play in Legacy. Midranged grindy aggro decks based around Bob and Tarmogoyf. I wouldn't mind getting into the format if I could do it for a few hundred dollars, and if people were actually playing it within an hour of me often and at a competitive level.
This has the ability to not only lower prices, but make modern a real format. As in people might actually play it. The problem is those 2 things are at odds with each other. You can't exponentially increase the playerbase without exponentially increasing the demand. Increasing demand raises the price which makes the entire point of raising supply -> lower the price ineffective.
I recommend ancient dens though to make him even easier.
Oh and GW seems nice, but wouldn't fauna shaman and vengevine go into this really well? Fauna allows you to get hawk for tons of counters on quest or reviving vengevines.
The one huge problem with quest that keeps it being a super competitive deck is that it dies to SB hate badly. Not sure if vengevine helps that issue since surgical extraction owns it. Still a few less white creatures to catch virtue's ruin and Dread of night seems decent.
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sylvan Library
1 Phyrexian Arena
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Scrubland
3 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Mox Diamond
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Bitterblossom
//Sideboard
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Ulvenwald Tracker
SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Kitchen Finks
SB: 1 Bitterblossom
As can probably be seen the main deck has no 1cc discard, and frankly that's because I don't like it all that much. In the first few turns I generally want to stick a threat or CA engine (DC, SL, PA) and in the mid-late game they usually have no hand or 1-2 cards which end up being lands. It also is far far less helpful against combo than people think.
The board is mostly combo hate with Leyline hosing Burn, UR Delver, and most combo decks. With teeg + cannonist there is usually just too much silver bullets for combo to hope to wipe away.
So any thoughts?
It still doesn't make noise when people join my lobby, and the sounds it makes are pretty childish. I wonder if I can change them.
Is there any way to make Cockatrice make noise? Like MWS makes a sound when spells are played or lands are tapped or a person joins your lobby/match.
Often times if a player is taking a long time, or I make a new game, i'll tab off until I hear a noise. With no noise you pretty much have to pay attention 24/7.
Got to agree that Tarmagoyf really is a big deal and saying it doesn't belong in mono white decks and elves is a joke.
Then again I just watched GP Chicago where the top 2 decks were Tarmagoyf Jund. Well Spirit Jund is the name since Tarmagoyf is a given.
Hell i've beaten thousand dollar decks with the card in legacy games.
And yeah I once drafted 7 of them and beat face aggro style. I enjoy auras.
Plus you're supposed to win through player skill not abusing the clock.
I am running bant. I had/have 3 pridemages and 2 detention spheres so I figured I was good on artifact/enchantment removal. I'm not though.
I keep getting paired against control decks that use the card extensively, and I find it extremely hard to deal with.
Aftifact removal doesn't work since they can always simply bounce it to top of library. Counterspells are tough due to it's casting cost being 1. Which means it comes down pre counterspells, and gets past daze/spell pierce fast.
What's the best way to get rid of the top, or keep it from hitting play? Anyone have any good solutions?
Not sure why it doesn't say what program will be used in the OP.
Bah i'm just jealous.