I would argue that a 4-mana wrath effect should be in standard at all times. I don't think that color is altogether important as long as it fits the pie. Damnation, Day of Judgment, etc. It's a necessary part of the checks and balances system.
This is what I'm trying out this week at FNM, and I'll go from there. I want to see what Liliana of the Dark Realms and Gideon, Champion of Justice "do", and I like a walker heavy list. I have a hard time keeping up with whether or not Lingering Souls is good, so currently I'm not running them, and in cutting that, I'm not running Sorin, Lord of Innistrad currently. Again, I don't know if this is right or not, I've been playing Esper Superfriends (if you want to call it that), and Esper Control for a bit, but am looking forward to tweak it for the current standard. (on another note, did anyone see the BUG tempo deck from the SCG Open? it was a sweet one).
Constructive criticism is welcome. I think I may have an issue with early aggression without Augur of Bolas but 4 early removal spells not including Liliana of the Veil or Azorius Charm and then what I think to be enough sweepers, I may be able to get there. Only testing will tell, waiting on my shocks to sleeve it up.
Edit: Looking for suggestions on the sideboard in particular. Here is one I threw together for a jumping point.
So, not sure if anyone is interested in FNM reports, but I figured I'd post one with the deck I played for the first time last night. First off, here's the deck.
This was a homebrew with zombies, and things that made zombies, though oddly enough short on removal.
Game 1: I had the turn one bear, turn 2 lord, turn 3 image on lord, and basically just held up mana leak the rest of the game while dismembering his guys. Side note here, I definitely to more collective damage from Dismember all night than I took from my opponents. I'm thinking about putting in a couple Drowned Catacombs. My dudes got me there, with a dragon to ice the whole situation.
Game 2: No sideboard: My opponent admits to keeping a shaky hand, then plays land go, land go and nothing else for quite some time. Meanwhile I was able to amass an army of 2 bears and a lord, eventually metamorphing my lord, and reaching the prize that way. He eventually attempted to play the get two 2/2 zombies sorcery with flashback. I Dissipated it and he conceded.
I asked him what the green was for, he told me overrun, would've like to have seen that, spicy.
28 participants. 4 rounds.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2: RG Werewolves
Game 1: My opponent is on the play, but mulligans to 6. Starts off with a Reckless Waif and is able to immediately transform it. When it was sent in a promptly dismembered, and luckily for me I was able to play a my guys are bigger than yours game for the duration. I was doing all i could to make sure not to help my opponent out with the transforming, and to my surprise, they weren't holding spells on their turn, so I simply stayed bigger, and got there on the back of a dragon, and a dragon copy.
Game 2: I sided in Mental Misstep (bad choice), and drew two of them, and never had a target, also sided in all the Flashfreezes, and sided out all of my main board counters. My opponent caught on to letting their guys transform after their turn, possibly from some of my looks of disbelief, and it got a little hairy. I cast Disemember 3 times, with the help of Snapcaster Mage to keep the board clear, but felt the phyrexian cost. I was able to stabalize, drop two bears, and eventually a dragon while flashreezing all of their stuff. Unfortunately my opponent did have some gutshots etc, but I was able to shut that down with a late lord, and fill in the ranks while denying their board.
2-0 (4-0)
Round 3: UW Midrange
Game 1: I shot out of the gates with bear, bear, counter, dragon for my first four plays. My opponent didn't have anything to target, so all of my guys just became extremely efficient creatures. He turn 4'd a Hero of Bladehold, I metamorphed and then imaged it, which I promptly received a "look" for, haha. The game was pretty much over after that.
Game 2: I sided in two Revoke Existence as my opponent showed me a sword in game one. This game started off slow as I drew a very control heavy hand. I had two Mana Leaks a Dissipate, and a Snapcaster, and for some reason, chose to play the control deck against a control deck (usually a poor idea). I Gitaxian Probed on my first turn to reveal a very slow hand from my opponent. This was the best information I received all night from the card as there were some things in his hand I just couldn't have resolve, one being Gideon Jura, while also seeing a Venser and an O-ring and thinking of how those two could ruin my day together, and a mana leak I then knew I had to play around. I think played land go, land go, with my opponent for ~ 5 turns, until he decided to go for it and stick a Gideon Jura, saying something to the affect of "someone has to do something". I mana leaked it, and then gained the tempo. I played a bear on my turn and passed. My bear got O-ringed, which I expected. My turn I dropped a Dragon with mana leak open. He attempted a sword, I let it go (revoke in hand), then go greedy with a Venser, I leaked, and that was basically the game, I just kept swinging in with the dragon, eventually adding a lord, and an image of a lord to the board. Luckily for me he tried to go aggressive, which gave me the advantage in the long run.
3-0 (6-0)
Round 4: RW Something.
I don't have much to say about this matchup actually because I don't remember much of it, because it was so boring. He was 3-0 as well so I'm not saying he was bad or the deck was bad, but I didn't see anything but Incinerate and Koth (which I countered each time). My opponent said he wasn't feeling well several times, got land screwed was barely shuffling his deck, complaining etc. I just wanted to win as quickly as possible so I didn't have to hear it anymore. I won 2-0.
4-0 (8-0)
Cut to top 4, the other two 3-0's drew, so I sat at 1st place.
I ended up losing 1-2 in the semis. I was playing UW Blade, and it was an interesting match. I don't have enough time to finish it up unfortunately, but let's just say there were a lot of Consecrated Sphinx copies on my side and we were both having fun with it.
All in all a good night 4-1 (9-2) on the night. I still think I could've taken the semi's, but I don't know what went wrong. I didn't draw poorly, my deck ran fine, it was all in the Snapcaster plays etc. Either way, I was playing this deck blind, and had a ton of fun. I'll definitely keep it in my FNM rotation.
A few notes. Snapcaster Mage was amazing, and is a 4 of in my opinion. Gitaxian Probe was only good a couple of times, great once, and meh the rest of the nite. Phantasmal Dragon is so good if you hold it like a control finisher. If you actually just stick it as a 5/5 flier when you opponent is playing off the top, it's nuts, especially if you can lord it. The 8 copy abilities were great, there are great creatures in the format to copy, and even past that, copying lords, or snapcasters in some cases is just great.
I hope this helps anyone thinking about playing the deck, the matchups aren't conclusive obviously, and I didn't play WRR, solar flare, UB, etc. but this may give you an idea of what to expect at your FNM.
As a benchmark, can it consistently beat the mono red decks we've now seen winning a tournament? I don't think it can. I think you're still a tad too slow, and that red deck's burn will keep your vamps in check enough that you can't flip the Bloodline Keeper. Plus, mono red packs recursion with the flying phoenix.
That's true, and that is a very good benchmark, especially when playing at smaller events where decks like RDW seem to be even more prevalent. While it does have a decent board against this deck, it'll most likely fold to it main board. I'll have to take a harder look at it.
I've been playing Vampires since Vampire Nocturnus was giving everyone +2/+1 and flying, and BR since he rotated out. Subsequently when I taught my girlfriend to play, I let her use that deck, and it's become her favorite, so I'm putting a new one together for her to break in to some FNM's.
Here's the list I've come up with, which is admittedly creature heavy, and lacks a good decision tree, but I think it gives her the best change in her early days of piloting. Let me know what you think, with that in mind.
The problem I find with such a low creature count is it forces you to mull more (which is bad) and rely more on Inkmoths (which, if it's the only creature yopu have on the field and they remove it, is very bad).
I've even considered switching Mulch out for Lead the Stampede, but I've been pretty happy nwith Mulch so far.
I suppose it depends on meta. I just find if I can keep my important creatures alive, I don't really need to bother with removal, with the possible exception of Melira. Probe is nice, but it ets up a slot I can't spare, and bleeds out life for a deck that essentially has no defense (as does Dismember).
Different strokes, I suppose.
That's a good point. I guess there are a few things that I have that I may not need, that would just be better served by a creature slot. I'd only want to run 4x more of one creature I think, and I think the probe would be my choice to replace. What'd be best for that slot? Ichorclaw Myr, Necropede, something else?
I'm thinking about trying this deck out, because it seems really fun to just win out of nowhere. This is the list I've put together. Only 8 creatures, 12 with Inkmoths, but I think I like it like that. Let me know what you think.
I like this deck, and am thinking about putting it together, there was a deck playing earlier at the SCG open, they were calling it "token town". Does anyone else have matchup reports?
You'll find some help here on general tempered steel development. I like curse, because the red also gives you access to galvanic blast, and artifact removal. If you with mutagenic growth you can either not splash, or splash green, and add mirran mettle as well. Both plans could use testing.
Well, I really like the curse, and I want to try it. This is the list I'm thinking about running, I'll be playing in Nashville at an open one short week after INN goes live (I was going to play in Indianapolis the day after rotation, but couldn't...this is all irrelevant). Anyway, looking for critique.
I've been thinking about this list since Invisible Stalker was spoiled. This list isn't comprehensive, but something I'd like to start working on. It's missing forbidden alchemy, and I want to get that in. We'll see. Any critique would be greatly accepted.
1 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers:
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2 Gideon, Champion of Justice
Other Stuff:
3 Azorius Charm
2 Detention Sphere
2 Devour Flesh
2 Dissipate
1 Forbidden Alchemy
4 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Terminus
3 Think Twice
2 Ultimate Price
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Glacial Fortress
4 Godless Shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Isolated Chapel
3 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
Constructive criticism is welcome. I think I may have an issue with early aggression without Augur of Bolas but 4 early removal spells not including Liliana of the Veil or Azorius Charm and then what I think to be enough sweepers, I may be able to get there. Only testing will tell, waiting on my shocks to sleeve it up.
Edit: Looking for suggestions on the sideboard in particular. Here is one I threw together for a jumping point.
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Bear
3 Phantasmal Dragon
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Snapcaster Mage
Spells:
4 Dismember
2 Dissipate
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mana Leak
4 Glacial Fortress
12 Island
3 Moorland Haunt
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Flashfreeze
4 Mental Misstep
2 Revoke Existence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Steel Sabotage
Basically, Todd Anderson's list - Mental Misstep main, and + Phyrexian Metamorph, and a sideboard matched to my meta (somewhat).
Round 1: GB Zombies
This was a homebrew with zombies, and things that made zombies, though oddly enough short on removal.
Game 1: I had the turn one bear, turn 2 lord, turn 3 image on lord, and basically just held up mana leak the rest of the game while dismembering his guys. Side note here, I definitely to more collective damage from Dismember all night than I took from my opponents. I'm thinking about putting in a couple Drowned Catacombs. My dudes got me there, with a dragon to ice the whole situation.
Game 2: No sideboard: My opponent admits to keeping a shaky hand, then plays land go, land go and nothing else for quite some time. Meanwhile I was able to amass an army of 2 bears and a lord, eventually metamorphing my lord, and reaching the prize that way. He eventually attempted to play the get two 2/2 zombies sorcery with flashback. I Dissipated it and he conceded.
I asked him what the green was for, he told me overrun, would've like to have seen that, spicy.
28 participants. 4 rounds.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2: RG Werewolves
Game 1: My opponent is on the play, but mulligans to 6. Starts off with a Reckless Waif and is able to immediately transform it. When it was sent in a promptly dismembered, and luckily for me I was able to play a my guys are bigger than yours game for the duration. I was doing all i could to make sure not to help my opponent out with the transforming, and to my surprise, they weren't holding spells on their turn, so I simply stayed bigger, and got there on the back of a dragon, and a dragon copy.
Game 2: I sided in Mental Misstep (bad choice), and drew two of them, and never had a target, also sided in all the Flashfreezes, and sided out all of my main board counters. My opponent caught on to letting their guys transform after their turn, possibly from some of my looks of disbelief, and it got a little hairy. I cast Disemember 3 times, with the help of Snapcaster Mage to keep the board clear, but felt the phyrexian cost. I was able to stabalize, drop two bears, and eventually a dragon while flashreezing all of their stuff. Unfortunately my opponent did have some gutshots etc, but I was able to shut that down with a late lord, and fill in the ranks while denying their board.
2-0 (4-0)
Round 3: UW Midrange
Game 1: I shot out of the gates with bear, bear, counter, dragon for my first four plays. My opponent didn't have anything to target, so all of my guys just became extremely efficient creatures. He turn 4'd a Hero of Bladehold, I metamorphed and then imaged it, which I promptly received a "look" for, haha. The game was pretty much over after that.
Game 2: I sided in two Revoke Existence as my opponent showed me a sword in game one. This game started off slow as I drew a very control heavy hand. I had two Mana Leaks a Dissipate, and a Snapcaster, and for some reason, chose to play the control deck against a control deck (usually a poor idea). I Gitaxian Probed on my first turn to reveal a very slow hand from my opponent. This was the best information I received all night from the card as there were some things in his hand I just couldn't have resolve, one being Gideon Jura, while also seeing a Venser and an O-ring and thinking of how those two could ruin my day together, and a mana leak I then knew I had to play around. I think played land go, land go, with my opponent for ~ 5 turns, until he decided to go for it and stick a Gideon Jura, saying something to the affect of "someone has to do something". I mana leaked it, and then gained the tempo. I played a bear on my turn and passed. My bear got O-ringed, which I expected. My turn I dropped a Dragon with mana leak open. He attempted a sword, I let it go (revoke in hand), then go greedy with a Venser, I leaked, and that was basically the game, I just kept swinging in with the dragon, eventually adding a lord, and an image of a lord to the board. Luckily for me he tried to go aggressive, which gave me the advantage in the long run.
3-0 (6-0)
Round 4: RW Something.
I don't have much to say about this matchup actually because I don't remember much of it, because it was so boring. He was 3-0 as well so I'm not saying he was bad or the deck was bad, but I didn't see anything but Incinerate and Koth (which I countered each time). My opponent said he wasn't feeling well several times, got land screwed was barely shuffling his deck, complaining etc. I just wanted to win as quickly as possible so I didn't have to hear it anymore. I won 2-0.
4-0 (8-0)
Cut to top 4, the other two 3-0's drew, so I sat at 1st place.
I ended up losing 1-2 in the semis. I was playing UW Blade, and it was an interesting match. I don't have enough time to finish it up unfortunately, but let's just say there were a lot of Consecrated Sphinx copies on my side and we were both having fun with it.
All in all a good night 4-1 (9-2) on the night. I still think I could've taken the semi's, but I don't know what went wrong. I didn't draw poorly, my deck ran fine, it was all in the Snapcaster plays etc. Either way, I was playing this deck blind, and had a ton of fun. I'll definitely keep it in my FNM rotation.
A few notes. Snapcaster Mage was amazing, and is a 4 of in my opinion. Gitaxian Probe was only good a couple of times, great once, and meh the rest of the nite. Phantasmal Dragon is so good if you hold it like a control finisher. If you actually just stick it as a 5/5 flier when you opponent is playing off the top, it's nuts, especially if you can lord it. The 8 copy abilities were great, there are great creatures in the format to copy, and even past that, copying lords, or snapcasters in some cases is just great.
I hope this helps anyone thinking about playing the deck, the matchups aren't conclusive obviously, and I didn't play WRR, solar flare, UB, etc. but this may give you an idea of what to expect at your FNM.
tl;dr ILLUSIONS IS FUN!
That's true, and that is a very good benchmark, especially when playing at smaller events where decks like RDW seem to be even more prevalent. While it does have a decent board against this deck, it'll most likely fold to it main board. I'll have to take a harder look at it.
I've been playing Vampires since Vampire Nocturnus was giving everyone +2/+1 and flying, and BR since he rotated out. Subsequently when I taught my girlfriend to play, I let her use that deck, and it's become her favorite, so I'm putting a new one together for her to break in to some FNM's.
Here's the list I've come up with, which is admittedly creature heavy, and lacks a good decision tree, but I think it gives her the best change in her early days of piloting. Let me know what you think, with that in mind.
4 Bloodcrazed Neonate
2 Bloodline Keeper
4 Child of Night
4 Diregraf Ghoul
2 Olivia Voldaren
4 Rakish Heir
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Vampire Interloper
3 Dismember
1 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
4 Shock
Land:
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Dragonskull Summit
7 Mountain
1 Stensia Bloodhall
7 Swamp
4 Arc Trail
4 Dead Weight
1 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
3 Manic Vandal
2 Nihil Spellbomb
That's a good point. I guess there are a few things that I have that I may not need, that would just be better served by a creature slot. I'd only want to run 4x more of one creature I think, and I think the probe would be my choice to replace. What'd be best for that slot? Ichorclaw Myr, Necropede, something else?
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
Spells:
4 Apostle's Blessing
2 Dismember
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Livewire Lash
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Ranger's Guile
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
4 Titanic Growth
10 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Inkmoth Nexus
5 Island
4 Autumn's Veil
2 Dismember
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Spellskite
4 Viridian Corrupter
3 Glint Hawk
3 Hovermyr
4 Memnite
2 Porcelain Legionnaire
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
Non-Creature Spells:
2 Chimeric Mass
3 Curse of Stalked Prey
2 Dispatch
4 Galvanic Blast
3 Glint Hawk Idol
3 Mox Opal
4 Tempered Steel
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Mountain
9 Plains
3 Arc Trail
1 Dismember
2 Dispatch
3 Shrine of Loyal Legions
3 Spellskite
3 Whipflare
1 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Grave Titan
4 Invisible Stalker
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Solemn Simulacrum
NonCreature Spells:
2 Black Sun's Zenith
2 Dismember
1 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
4 Mana Leak
4 Ponder
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Think Twice
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Inkmoth Nexus
7 Island
6 Swamp
1 Dismember
3 Flashfreeze
2 Memoricide
2 Negate
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Surgical Extraction
Thanks for looking, and I apologize if someone has posted something similar already. I didn't see anything other than draw go, which this is not.
i was earlier, nothing now, i think it's due to server capacity issues, like everyone was saying previously.
beat me to it.
i was able to get on about 10 minutes ago. i think everyone's flooding it now.