I don't think this is a smart way to spend your money. Invest in quicker return cards, things likethe Zen fetches when they were low were fantastic.
Also, people still play vintage and there are not many of these cards. Buying, just to sit on them, makes it harder for the people who use these cards.
I would guess that the vast majority of Lotuses and moxen out there are not in the hands of players. I have a full set, haven't been used in a year. My friend owns a store and has several moxen, havent been played with ages... Dan Bock has like a hundred Black Lotus, and I doubt he's got 100 vintage decks that see regular use. These are show pieces / trophies to players, not just to collectors.
I just wanted to ask everyone here for their opinions on the investment potential of the power 9.
Traditionally the power nine has seen slower price gains than other cards/staples.
Their price gains have lagged behind somewhat, but not by that much. Even though i wanted to ask other people what they
think about this given the recent explosion in the player base.
Power will continue to go up for a while, but the problem is that selling it for a significant profit is going to be difficult. You're tying up a LOT of money for a long time. If you have that much liquid cash, talk to a bank and see what kind of rates they offer on CDs.
As a banker in PA, a good rate on a 4 year CD is about 1.10, and on an 11 month 0.55, currently most magic cards > CDs ...same for money markets.
The problem with that, Lord Anarchy, is that the little bit that you make on the Mox takes virtually no work, where as flipping 480 cards in the same time span (while I should hope makes you a lot more money) takes a lot of time and effort. Also, if you go the ebay route, a 300 mox that sold for 400 should yield like 60 bucks profit after fees of about 40.00 ....the paypal .30 fee per sale on the latter strategy alone comes to over 120 bucks! ...and if you aren't flipping those cards through ebay then add a LOT more time to your flipping efforts. just my .02
There are still plenty on tcgplayer, but I noticed SCG is out.... is this being played in something?
Also they're out of Inkmoth Nexus... modern speculation?
Just a heads up
Glittering Wish. Tags added. You should do this yourself though. -Galspanic
I understand that some people don't like the foiling process of FTV, but if you are really commenting that the cards don't have the potential to rise in value because of the process, or if your're referring to FTV as the 'food stamps of magic cards'... what I hear is: "I am replying that these cards are garbage because I didn't get my hands on a set"
Yes, it helped that I had 5 mana bombs: Obzedat and Master of Cruelties, but truth be told, the logic went like this:
-I started with an esper deck that wanted to splash red.
-I added the Izzet Guildgate and cluestone to help get the red splash in.
-I had two gatekeepers (black and white), but only three gates. I added the Gruul gate and the Selesnya gate to up my gate count.
-I then had two green sources, so the 7 mana 1/1 that brings friends made it in.
-Cut some two drops that are unimpressive in a card advantage / removal build, add cluestones for consistency and for ramp.
-Cut one land (down to 16) to compensate for the extra mana sources.
I actually won this tournament, but the cards in the deck were so very strong (2 far/away, 1 Turn/Burn, Supreme Verdict, Obzedat) that my case is clearly not universal.
That said, the cluestones take you from the early stages of the game to the late in a turn, as spells that cost 5 or more are generally swingy. So you play some big things, remove some things, and when the dust settles, you cash in your cluestones for more draws... love them!
My opinion is a little redundant with whats already been said but two points:
1. Choosing a 'side' takes away from some of the skill. In the Mirrodin Besieged prerelease, if you chose Mirrodin over Phyrexia, you were at a disadvantage. While I cannot prove this, I do think it was the general consensus that the Phyrexia packs were generally much stronger, had more removal, and significantly more raw power: the cards didn't NEED each other in order to be decent, they were good on their own.
2. I cannot provide true evidence for this either, but I think prerelease attendance has been on the rise. This is due to local stores being allowed to host prerelease events and magic's popularity rise in general, but it is likely also due to the 'gimmicks' added to the events.
...while it is not necessarily going to be EVERY prerelease event, as several since MBS have not had the choose your side gimmick, there will almost certainly be a Helvault or pick a side gimmick of some sort from here on out. I personally hope that it does not involve getting to 'choose a side,' because it means I have to figure out which side has more synergies, removal, bombs, etc. instead of just going in blind as we should for a prerelease.
1. In refute to Burn trail. Burn trail is a 4 mana bolt, that COULD be a 4 mana double bolt, but red's creatures are sub-par at best. So a deck that runs two burn trail and a bunch of red garbage isn't that strong. Silkbind Faerie gets in damage while nullifying their best creature, AND keeping X/1s at bay. Trust me on this one, I'm not just hyping a 'pet' card.
2. Howl is definitely a bomb in this set. I would go so far as to run one in my non-green deck with just one elsewhere flask, as the flask cycles, and the Howl generally wins the game often enough to make up for the times you draw it without the flask.
3. Other white commons/uncommons that are playable:
Aethertow - in a controlling white build
Armored Ascension - This card unanswered is like a better Madcap skills, especially on a guy that can untap.
Ballynock Cohort - Hes a 3/3 first strike for 3 and is definitely the real deal.
Barkshell Blessing - solid pump effect.
Barrenton Cragtreads - all of the hybrid Hill Giants were playable.
Barrenton Medic - not my flavor really, but as mentioned above, he could make the cut.
Curse of Chains - common removal
Elvish Hexhunter - Hybrid guy with Steel of the Godhead or Runes of the Deus is a deck in this format, and he answers it.
Glammer Spinners - not quite as good as they read, but they are certainly playable.
Kitchen Finks
Kithkin Rabble - Generally a growing Hill Giant with Vigilance
Last Breath - common removal
Medicine Runner - make no mistake, this is a format with bears, and this guy keeps your persisters persisting!
Mistmeadow Skulk - see Glammer Spinners
Mistmeadow Witch - He might read like a mediocre card, but he wins games, period. He can blink your 187s and persist creatures, or he can shift out a blocker. All while keeping Runes of the Deus or Shield of the Oversoul stuck in the opponent's hand.
Niveous Wisps - cycles for W while tapping a blocker. This is the best Wisp.
Plumeveil - more for the controlling deck, but he is SO HARD to fight through.
Prison Term - keeps their BEST creature at bay... good synergy with Silkbind Faerie.
Puresight Merrow - a bear that can untap AND smooth out your draws. In this format, the bear would suffice, but the added ability makes him above par.
Raven's Run Dragoon - see Barrenton Cragtreads.
Repel Intruders - Counterspell and a body. Doesn't seem that solid, but is quite playable in the format.
Rune-Cervin Rider - Appropriately costed, as he can win the game. Great topdeck too.
Safehold Duo - 3 mana gets you a 2/4 (great blocker), who can be an amazing attacker as well when it pumps itself.
Sefehold Elite - A Grizzley Bear that comes back with persist, and adds synergy to your Medics, your Turn to Mists and your Mistmeadow Witch... starting to see why this deck is real?
Safehold Sentry - another grizzley bear who can block as a 2/4... this guy was a FANTASTIC common!
Seedcradle Witch - This guy was boss. He messed up combat math, pumped your Duo, held Shield of the Oversoul, and could eventually end the game, ON HIS OWN.
Shield of the Oversoul / Steel of the Godhead - obviously both playable in the deck, and note also that the UB and the RB enchant creatures are kind of lame. Only the GR one also has a feel of 'this can end the game' on it.
Silkbind Faerie - I stand by my statement, best common. He's the Mist Raven of the set.
Somnomancer - A bear in the early game who taps down a blocker in the late game. Good with the Faerie, good with Wisps, etc.
Spectral Procession - played on turn 3, you are going to have to misplay something fierce to lose the game. You likely know how good Lingering Souls plays out.
Thistledown Duo - Gains evasion with the pump. Again here, the hybrid 'Duos' with white in them are the best... just read the others. None are terrible, but the GW and the UW are the best, especially considering that the white hybrid cards are GENERALLY better than non-white hybrid cards.
Turn to Mist - reset anything, I assure you, while this card reads poorly, I would play two or three if I had them. This is the set with Wither don't forget.
Wilt-Leaf Caveliers - All of the 3 hybrid mana uncommons were pretty good. This one is not as good as Ram-Gang, but is just fine anyhow.
Now I could go through the other color combinations and hype up a bunch of stuff, but the difference is the guy hyping up red cards is talking about playing Triple Intimidator Initiate. Don't get me wrong, that was a deck. But the cards that synergize well in other colors often lack the raw strength to be good on their own like the white cards do.
Finally, if you get triple Incremental Blight, yes go black, you'll win, but I don't go in to drafts intending on drafting triples of the best uncommon of the set. That advice might as well be go in to your draft, get 3 Mind Control or Fireballs, and you'll be fine.
I am open to criticism, and I hope you find this useful.
Play white with a curve.
Silkbind Faerie is the best common, all of the hybrid cards with white from shadowmoor are solid, white's curve is the best and has the best bears, and turn to mist is a thing.
At Phyrre56: the logic is that it mimics real life... at a tournament, when you finish, you can go check out other decks and watch people play, so this is the imitation. In fact, its more fair, because in real life, while youre checking out potential opponent's decks, they can't check yours out because you are still playing, while on modo they could.
They got rid of the function because players felt they were obligated to watch replays frantically in the two minutes between rounds because if they did not, but their opponent did, they'd be at a huge disadvantage. I tend to favor the removal of the function personally.
Thanks for the advice everyone, consensus seems to be to buy it (and blow my MTG budget for the rest of the year).
Sounds like you could sell most of it and get your money back, while keeping the cards you want. Or just sell it all for what, 500 more? ...more rest of year Magic budget! Yay!
I wonder why only the price of Shallow Grave got so crazy. It's about 4-5 times the price from last week.
Why Goryo's Vengeance and Griselbrand don't explode? Yes, they aren't on the reserved list, but I doubt they will reprint any of these any time in the next years. (One being Arcane, and the other being just released).
That really let's me think that at least 80% of the buyers don't need Shallow Grave to play, but only speculate.
It's because there are a billion more copies of Goryo's Vengeance and even Griselbrand than there are Shallow Graves. Sure, speculators are in on it too, but if you want to play the deck, most online stores have an ample supply of the former two cards, and few Shallow Grave, even before it went up.
I have been working on a similar list. Let me share what I've found.
1. The deck already runs green for acceleration and fixing. The obvious thing, in my opinion is to run 4 Abundant Growth and 4 Mana Bloom. Unlike Farseek, these are enchantments, which help out the Sphere (one of 3 vital cards in the deck) to serve as a Wrath effect when it hits. This also helps to get Underworld Connections down early, which I've come to find is the second of the 3 vital pieces to the deck, the final being...
2. Blind Obedience ABSOLUTELY belongs in the main deck. The life that it gives contributes to continued casting of Underworld Connections is simply needed. It also serves as an admittedly slow win condition, but a win-con never the less. It makes late game Abundant Growths feel pretty good, especially if you have 2 B.O. down and get to double ping. Finally, the Mana Blooms, while sometimes clunky, can be cast for 0 every turn as fuel for the B.O. This makes the B.O. win condition become somewhat a reality while also continuing to allow those Underworld Connections to tick.
3. O. Ring & Detention Sphere: You just don't need 8, trust me. some combination of the two cards to end up with 5 in the main deck is plenty. They really only need to hit a planeswalker.
4. Wrath effects: I run only one. Lets be honest here, you have 8 Wrath effects, and if built this way, Sphere might as well be Wraths as well. Now I have lost games because I haven't drawn one of my 4 Spheres / 1 Wrath effect, but that said, most decks that are afraid of Wrath are built to resist it anyway. A Sphere with 4 enchantments in play is often much more effective, and if you get a second sphere, just forget about it.
5. Have an I-win-now at the top of the deck. I currently run a Sphinx's Revelation and Nicol-Bolas. Thought about Assembly, and it seems fine as well, I just haven't tested it out yet. Door to nothingness works just fine as well.
I chose Boros and opened Simic cards. As it turns out I did well regardless, but I noticed what you did as well. The problem I was identifying was that at our prerelease with 32 players, if 8 of them were genuinely solid players, it was going to come down to which one of the 8 opened the most cards that matched up with the Guild he chose from the non-guild booster packs. My "Boros" pool had me opening 3 Simic rares, bad ones at that, a UB mythic, and one on-Guild playable rare. I had even mentioned to someone that it would be more appropriate to:
1. Open 5 regular packs....
2. Determine what your best color combination is....
3. Select Guild pack from the guild of your choice.
Rewards good players. Also, the prerelease is about fun for newer and casual players. Can you see casual-Joe selecting Dimir and not being able to run Aerelia because it's not in his guild colors? Worse yet, I bet casual-Joe will play it anyway... the 'ol 4 color special with double mana costs everywhere and a whopping 2 Guildgates to figure that mana out. Some fun his prerelease will be.
I would guess that the vast majority of Lotuses and moxen out there are not in the hands of players. I have a full set, haven't been used in a year. My friend owns a store and has several moxen, havent been played with ages... Dan Bock has like a hundred Black Lotus, and I doubt he's got 100 vintage decks that see regular use. These are show pieces / trophies to players, not just to collectors.
As a banker in PA, a good rate on a 4 year CD is about 1.10, and on an 11 month 0.55, currently most magic cards > CDs ...same for money markets.
Also they're out of Inkmoth Nexus... modern speculation?
Just a heads up
Glittering Wish. Tags added. You should do this yourself though. -Galspanic
Yes, it helped that I had 5 mana bombs: Obzedat and Master of Cruelties, but truth be told, the logic went like this:
-I started with an esper deck that wanted to splash red.
-I added the Izzet Guildgate and cluestone to help get the red splash in.
-I had two gatekeepers (black and white), but only three gates. I added the Gruul gate and the Selesnya gate to up my gate count.
-I then had two green sources, so the 7 mana 1/1 that brings friends made it in.
-Cut some two drops that are unimpressive in a card advantage / removal build, add cluestones for consistency and for ramp.
-Cut one land (down to 16) to compensate for the extra mana sources.
I actually won this tournament, but the cards in the deck were so very strong (2 far/away, 1 Turn/Burn, Supreme Verdict, Obzedat) that my case is clearly not universal.
That said, the cluestones take you from the early stages of the game to the late in a turn, as spells that cost 5 or more are generally swingy. So you play some big things, remove some things, and when the dust settles, you cash in your cluestones for more draws... love them!
1. Choosing a 'side' takes away from some of the skill. In the Mirrodin Besieged prerelease, if you chose Mirrodin over Phyrexia, you were at a disadvantage. While I cannot prove this, I do think it was the general consensus that the Phyrexia packs were generally much stronger, had more removal, and significantly more raw power: the cards didn't NEED each other in order to be decent, they were good on their own.
2. I cannot provide true evidence for this either, but I think prerelease attendance has been on the rise. This is due to local stores being allowed to host prerelease events and magic's popularity rise in general, but it is likely also due to the 'gimmicks' added to the events.
...while it is not necessarily going to be EVERY prerelease event, as several since MBS have not had the choose your side gimmick, there will almost certainly be a Helvault or pick a side gimmick of some sort from here on out. I personally hope that it does not involve getting to 'choose a side,' because it means I have to figure out which side has more synergies, removal, bombs, etc. instead of just going in blind as we should for a prerelease.
a few points...
1. In refute to Burn trail. Burn trail is a 4 mana bolt, that COULD be a 4 mana double bolt, but red's creatures are sub-par at best. So a deck that runs two burn trail and a bunch of red garbage isn't that strong. Silkbind Faerie gets in damage while nullifying their best creature, AND keeping X/1s at bay. Trust me on this one, I'm not just hyping a 'pet' card.
2. Howl is definitely a bomb in this set. I would go so far as to run one in my non-green deck with just one elsewhere flask, as the flask cycles, and the Howl generally wins the game often enough to make up for the times you draw it without the flask.
3. Other white commons/uncommons that are playable:
Aethertow - in a controlling white build
Armored Ascension - This card unanswered is like a better Madcap skills, especially on a guy that can untap.
Ballynock Cohort - Hes a 3/3 first strike for 3 and is definitely the real deal.
Barkshell Blessing - solid pump effect.
Barrenton Cragtreads - all of the hybrid Hill Giants were playable.
Barrenton Medic - not my flavor really, but as mentioned above, he could make the cut.
Curse of Chains - common removal
Elvish Hexhunter - Hybrid guy with Steel of the Godhead or Runes of the Deus is a deck in this format, and he answers it.
Glammer Spinners - not quite as good as they read, but they are certainly playable.
Kitchen Finks
Kithkin Rabble - Generally a growing Hill Giant with Vigilance
Last Breath - common removal
Medicine Runner - make no mistake, this is a format with bears, and this guy keeps your persisters persisting!
Mistmeadow Skulk - see Glammer Spinners
Mistmeadow Witch - He might read like a mediocre card, but he wins games, period. He can blink your 187s and persist creatures, or he can shift out a blocker. All while keeping Runes of the Deus or Shield of the Oversoul stuck in the opponent's hand.
Niveous Wisps - cycles for W while tapping a blocker. This is the best Wisp.
Plumeveil - more for the controlling deck, but he is SO HARD to fight through.
Prison Term - keeps their BEST creature at bay... good synergy with Silkbind Faerie.
Puresight Merrow - a bear that can untap AND smooth out your draws. In this format, the bear would suffice, but the added ability makes him above par.
Raven's Run Dragoon - see Barrenton Cragtreads.
Repel Intruders - Counterspell and a body. Doesn't seem that solid, but is quite playable in the format.
Rune-Cervin Rider - Appropriately costed, as he can win the game. Great topdeck too.
Safehold Duo - 3 mana gets you a 2/4 (great blocker), who can be an amazing attacker as well when it pumps itself.
Sefehold Elite - A Grizzley Bear that comes back with persist, and adds synergy to your Medics, your Turn to Mists and your Mistmeadow Witch... starting to see why this deck is real?
Safehold Sentry - another grizzley bear who can block as a 2/4... this guy was a FANTASTIC common!
Seedcradle Witch - This guy was boss. He messed up combat math, pumped your Duo, held Shield of the Oversoul, and could eventually end the game, ON HIS OWN.
Shield of the Oversoul / Steel of the Godhead - obviously both playable in the deck, and note also that the UB and the RB enchant creatures are kind of lame. Only the GR one also has a feel of 'this can end the game' on it.
Silkbind Faerie - I stand by my statement, best common. He's the Mist Raven of the set.
Somnomancer - A bear in the early game who taps down a blocker in the late game. Good with the Faerie, good with Wisps, etc.
Spectral Procession - played on turn 3, you are going to have to misplay something fierce to lose the game. You likely know how good Lingering Souls plays out.
Thistledown Duo - Gains evasion with the pump. Again here, the hybrid 'Duos' with white in them are the best... just read the others. None are terrible, but the GW and the UW are the best, especially considering that the white hybrid cards are GENERALLY better than non-white hybrid cards.
Turn to Mist - reset anything, I assure you, while this card reads poorly, I would play two or three if I had them. This is the set with Wither don't forget.
Wilt-Leaf Caveliers - All of the 3 hybrid mana uncommons were pretty good. This one is not as good as Ram-Gang, but is just fine anyhow.
Now I could go through the other color combinations and hype up a bunch of stuff, but the difference is the guy hyping up red cards is talking about playing Triple Intimidator Initiate. Don't get me wrong, that was a deck. But the cards that synergize well in other colors often lack the raw strength to be good on their own like the white cards do.
Finally, if you get triple Incremental Blight, yes go black, you'll win, but I don't go in to drafts intending on drafting triples of the best uncommon of the set. That advice might as well be go in to your draft, get 3 Mind Control or Fireballs, and you'll be fine.
I am open to criticism, and I hope you find this useful.
Silkbind Faerie is the best common, all of the hybrid cards with white from shadowmoor are solid, white's curve is the best and has the best bears, and turn to mist is a thing.
They got rid of the function because players felt they were obligated to watch replays frantically in the two minutes between rounds because if they did not, but their opponent did, they'd be at a huge disadvantage. I tend to favor the removal of the function personally.
Sounds like you could sell most of it and get your money back, while keeping the cards you want. Or just sell it all for what, 500 more? ...more rest of year Magic budget! Yay!
It's because there are a billion more copies of Goryo's Vengeance and even Griselbrand than there are Shallow Graves. Sure, speculators are in on it too, but if you want to play the deck, most online stores have an ample supply of the former two cards, and few Shallow Grave, even before it went up.
1. The deck already runs green for acceleration and fixing. The obvious thing, in my opinion is to run 4 Abundant Growth and 4 Mana Bloom. Unlike Farseek, these are enchantments, which help out the Sphere (one of 3 vital cards in the deck) to serve as a Wrath effect when it hits. This also helps to get Underworld Connections down early, which I've come to find is the second of the 3 vital pieces to the deck, the final being...
2. Blind Obedience ABSOLUTELY belongs in the main deck. The life that it gives contributes to continued casting of Underworld Connections is simply needed. It also serves as an admittedly slow win condition, but a win-con never the less. It makes late game Abundant Growths feel pretty good, especially if you have 2 B.O. down and get to double ping. Finally, the Mana Blooms, while sometimes clunky, can be cast for 0 every turn as fuel for the B.O. This makes the B.O. win condition become somewhat a reality while also continuing to allow those Underworld Connections to tick.
3. O. Ring & Detention Sphere: You just don't need 8, trust me. some combination of the two cards to end up with 5 in the main deck is plenty. They really only need to hit a planeswalker.
4. Wrath effects: I run only one. Lets be honest here, you have 8 Wrath effects, and if built this way, Sphere might as well be Wraths as well. Now I have lost games because I haven't drawn one of my 4 Spheres / 1 Wrath effect, but that said, most decks that are afraid of Wrath are built to resist it anyway. A Sphere with 4 enchantments in play is often much more effective, and if you get a second sphere, just forget about it.
5. Have an I-win-now at the top of the deck. I currently run a Sphinx's Revelation and Nicol-Bolas. Thought about Assembly, and it seems fine as well, I just haven't tested it out yet. Door to nothingness works just fine as well.
1. Open 5 regular packs....
2. Determine what your best color combination is....
3. Select Guild pack from the guild of your choice.
Rewards good players. Also, the prerelease is about fun for newer and casual players. Can you see casual-Joe selecting Dimir and not being able to run Aerelia because it's not in his guild colors? Worse yet, I bet casual-Joe will play it anyway... the 'ol 4 color special with double mana costs everywhere and a whopping 2 Guildgates to figure that mana out. Some fun his prerelease will be.