I have been playing modern for sometime and more specifically, Living End. It has now come the time that I have to get out due to work obligations and will no longer have the time to play.
I have Living End mostly foiled out and have the cards in the same condition in which I acquired them - most are NM
Here is the E-bay listing I have created for the deck and all cards included - I would prefer to work through E-bay since the value of the cards is >$1200 and Ebay will protect all parties involved.
Is anyone else trying Dead // Gone maindeck? Having 1-mana removal feels great, I find, even if what I kill comes back from the dead post-Living End.
I toyed with the idea of dead//gone; however I think maw is just superior in that he represents a clock in addition to killing the creature we care about (scooze, eidolon)
Oh and P.S.
How in the hell does LE beat Lantern Control?
In old living end you had to have a Beast Within game one that they didn't mill or stack it using architects triggers and hope they never drew it. Now we don't have architects, but game two you can get it by having Beast Within, Ingot Chewer, or Pulse of Murasa targeting Chewer if you have pulse in the SB (which may be correct over boar right now that Harsh Mentor is a card)
One thing I tested out the past few weeks is Kari zerv expertise... You should run 1 for my opinion
It's a good card to play a living end in hand. With so many cyclers the chance you draw a living end will be greater.
It's a game changer/finisher. You can just play it to take an opponent monster and not cast libing end if you got it... You take the biggest creature or the one with an evasion.... Or you just take their only defenses...
It's like our cascade spell, we can just cast those for the primary effect.
Kari Zev's Expertise is the truth for the reasons you say, friend. This is the only recent printing that is unambiguously good for the deck.
Having played a fair amount of larger tournaments with Living End, I will say that I have won many games off Kari Zev's because she makes combat math impossible for your opponent - especially if they don't know you run it/expect it.
I think you're in the majority here (for those staying in Jund colors, anyway), but I'm going to be the contrarian and stake my money on the cycles-for-black-or-colorless dudes (with an exception for Cerodon). Why?
I debated this list as well for some time and have decided that I like it less than the mixed b/r or the straight red due to the fact that it makes playing Grove of the Burnwillows somewhat worse, and this is a card I think we need to be running 3-4 of atm
So I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out where moon LE goes after Amonkhet is released. I think not playing Archfiend in any iteration might be a mistake. For simplicity of mana, I have only chosen creatures that cycle for red or colorless. I have not decided whether SSG is a must in the deck, but it definitely makes the moon version better; however, I could easily see playing without it and going up on the number of Shriekmaw main from 0 to 2 and adding another land cycler. I think even though we play moon, 3-4 Grove is best right now since Death Shadow is such a prevalent deck. I also don't think we can afford to drop Faerie Macabre at least in the next few weeks since people tend to play more affinity when the format is new and its pretty good against people trying to kill you with Viscera Seer and nabs opposing Street Wraith.
Here is the list I think I have settled on. I decided I am going to experiment with Dead//Gone since rules changes and tapping a single red to kill their mana dork or scooze seems strong, not to mention we can kill creatures shriekmaw couldn't - although the downside is shriekmaw actually killed our opponent. The other thing I like about this card is it can be an effective D. Dread and making one of their creatures not able to block so you can alpha them or even bounce their guy they just cheated into play (emrakul aside). I'll just be testing it so we will see how it goes - Hopefully I wont have to use it on many Eidolons since taking 2 when we used to take nothing b/c Shriekmaw is awesome.
What would be your plan guys against Gift Storm now? I'm facing it a lot as well as Affinity.
Possibly consider cascading into aethersworn canonist game 2, but most lists run bolts in the side. Leyline is a possibility but also our life gain strategy is not bad, as it is difficult for them to get enough storm to kill us when we are above 20. If you are willing to splash white Eidolon of Rhetoric could be a potential card.
As always we have our silver bullet Slaughter Games if we can get it out fast enough.
What is the general opinion on Forbidden Orchard as a one of?
Hey Mudkip,
I have been piloting LE for a while and have top32'd a classic with it, 33rd in regionals, top 4 pptq, etc. I have love the one-of forbidden orchard. I had a brief period where I experimented with Dryad Arbor, but I have come to the conclusion that forbidden orchard is non-inferior to Dryad Arbor, and in some instances superior. The fact that it #1 produces any color mana #2 comes into play untapped #3 is never a bad draw (unless you are land flooded) makes it a keeper in my book (not to mention the obvious fact that it enables kari zevs and d.dread). The argument that you will die to aggro decks is is not wrong, but in my experience of >500 games with LE I will say I've only had this happen to me once when I kept an opener which had only land as Forbidden Orchard - do not keep this hand unless it also has 3-4 street wraiths as well and a cascade spell. I have loved it and I will not part with this card in my maindeck - it has won me many more games than it has lost me (lost one game to the 1/1s, again). I will also say there is the added bonus of it allowing you to cast any creature you throw into living end without the drawback of having to add additional shocks - i have cast my singleton pale recluse many times in addition to my architects for extra beats.
On the subject of lands, I do think that every list should be playing one Kessig Wolf Run as well. The amount of reach this card gives is unreal (I have killed a few Primeval Titans with it, not to mention forcing impossible to lose blocks). My current Mana base is as follows
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Blooming Marsh
1x Stomping Ground
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Blood Crypt
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Kessig Wolf Run
The other comment I want to make is I do not think any list should be running Copperline Gorge at this point as it only cycles half our guys, and has the drawback of coming into play tapped turn 4 and 5. I think we should move to minimize fast lands, but not cut them - and if you are running them at least have them cycle every creature so you never have an awkward opener with them (whats the point of running them if they are going to be bad in the first 3 turns and not cycle everything). So, I've settled on 5. The rest of the mana base is pretty self explanatory and standard.
Let's put it this way. Batterskull needs to be answered multiple times (if played correctly). The more cards they are wasting on the skull mean the less cards they use on our combo. So, please, before snap dismissing a card because it doesn't fit into the archetype in the typical sense, think about it a little more critically.
Yeah, I'm wondering this right now too. I currently have 3x in the MD, and I'm debating between dropping them for SGO (I have none in my 75 right now, only 3 Spellskite) or for a 3rd Foresee, a 3rd Spell Pierce, and a 3rd Mana Leak. I haven't quite decided yet. Also, I'm wondering if Dispel is the way to go instead of Spell Pierce at this point. Anyone have any thoughts?
Also, after reading PV's article, I can't help but feel the Twin list he posted isn't equipped to deal with aggro even remotely, at least game 1. Not enough blockers to handle it that way, and only 1 Dismember? I feel like running two Pyroclasms MD, myself, with another 2 and probably a Slagstorm in the sideboard.
I posted a list a couple pages back that is well equipped for our bad matchup (aggro). You should check it out.
So I jumped ship on Grixis Twin after seeing that spreading seas is gaining a lot of momentum (Not to mention Tectonic Edge being played still). So now I'm all in on U/R. Here is the list that I have been testing. I know that we are weak v. Aggro and strong v. Valkut, so my build is basically to combat aggro while still keeping our Valakut matchup good (e.g., being fast). Its been really great in testing so I though I would share:
I haven't tried the deck with tectonic edge, but I'm sure that they will be an improvement. I like the sideboard ALOT it has so many answers to everything. The mirror where drawing more/landing a skite is important, control where drawing more becomes important, Vandal for Tempered Steel decks and other artifact decks, Batterskull and Pyroclasm for other aggro decks (Batterskull is still sick against aggro even if you aren't playing it with sfm), and lastly counters/spellskites for the hate people will be bringing in game 2.
I have been playing modern for sometime and more specifically, Living End. It has now come the time that I have to get out due to work obligations and will no longer have the time to play.
I have Living End mostly foiled out and have the cards in the same condition in which I acquired them - most are NM
Here is the E-bay listing I have created for the deck and all cards included - I would prefer to work through E-bay since the value of the cards is >$1200 and Ebay will protect all parties involved.
Here is the listing anyway!
LINK REMOVED
I toyed with the idea of dead//gone; however I think maw is just superior in that he represents a clock in addition to killing the creature we care about (scooze, eidolon)
In old living end you had to have a Beast Within game one that they didn't mill or stack it using architects triggers and hope they never drew it. Now we don't have architects, but game two you can get it by having Beast Within, Ingot Chewer, or Pulse of Murasa targeting Chewer if you have pulse in the SB (which may be correct over boar right now that Harsh Mentor is a card)
Having played a fair amount of larger tournaments with Living End, I will say that I have won many games off Kari Zev's because she makes combat math impossible for your opponent - especially if they don't know you run it/expect it.
I debated this list as well for some time and have decided that I like it less than the mixed b/r or the straight red due to the fact that it makes playing Grove of the Burnwillows somewhat worse, and this is a card I think we need to be running 3-4 of atm
Here is the list I think I have settled on. I decided I am going to experiment with Dead//Gone since rules changes and tapping a single red to kill their mana dork or scooze seems strong, not to mention we can kill creatures shriekmaw couldn't - although the downside is shriekmaw actually killed our opponent. The other thing I like about this card is it can be an effective D. Dread and making one of their creatures not able to block so you can alpha them or even bounce their guy they just cheated into play (emrakul aside). I'll just be testing it so we will see how it goes - Hopefully I wont have to use it on many Eidolons since taking 2 when we used to take nothing b/c Shriekmaw is awesome.
4 Street Wraith
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Desert Cerodon
2 Avalanche Riders
4 Fulminator Mage
3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Twisted Abomination
1 Pale Recluse
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Archfiend of Ifnir
2 Blood Moon
3 Living End
4 Violent Outburst
3 Demonic Dread
1 Kari Zev's Expertise
2 Beast Within
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Beast Within
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Dead // Gone
2 Ricochet Trap
3 Pulse of Murasa
4 Ingot Chewer
Possibly consider cascading into aethersworn canonist game 2, but most lists run bolts in the side. Leyline is a possibility but also our life gain strategy is not bad, as it is difficult for them to get enough storm to kill us when we are above 20. If you are willing to splash white Eidolon of Rhetoric could be a potential card.
As always we have our silver bullet Slaughter Games if we can get it out fast enough.
Hey Mudkip,
I have been piloting LE for a while and have top32'd a classic with it, 33rd in regionals, top 4 pptq, etc. I have love the one-of forbidden orchard. I had a brief period where I experimented with Dryad Arbor, but I have come to the conclusion that forbidden orchard is non-inferior to Dryad Arbor, and in some instances superior. The fact that it #1 produces any color mana #2 comes into play untapped #3 is never a bad draw (unless you are land flooded) makes it a keeper in my book (not to mention the obvious fact that it enables kari zevs and d.dread). The argument that you will die to aggro decks is is not wrong, but in my experience of >500 games with LE I will say I've only had this happen to me once when I kept an opener which had only land as Forbidden Orchard - do not keep this hand unless it also has 3-4 street wraiths as well and a cascade spell. I have loved it and I will not part with this card in my maindeck - it has won me many more games than it has lost me (lost one game to the 1/1s, again). I will also say there is the added bonus of it allowing you to cast any creature you throw into living end without the drawback of having to add additional shocks - i have cast my singleton pale recluse many times in addition to my architects for extra beats.
On the subject of lands, I do think that every list should be playing one Kessig Wolf Run as well. The amount of reach this card gives is unreal (I have killed a few Primeval Titans with it, not to mention forcing impossible to lose blocks). My current Mana base is as follows
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Blooming Marsh
1x Stomping Ground
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Blood Crypt
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Kessig Wolf Run
The other comment I want to make is I do not think any list should be running Copperline Gorge at this point as it only cycles half our guys, and has the drawback of coming into play tapped turn 4 and 5. I think we should move to minimize fast lands, but not cut them - and if you are running them at least have them cycle every creature so you never have an awkward opener with them (whats the point of running them if they are going to be bad in the first 3 turns and not cycle everything). So, I've settled on 5. The rest of the mana base is pretty self explanatory and standard.
I posted a list a couple pages back that is well equipped for our bad matchup (aggro). You should check it out.
I feel like Hartbeest should be in at least one of these decks.
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Seagate Oracle
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Intants
4 Into the Roil
4 Mana Leak
Sorceries
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Preordain
2 Foresee
3 Pyroclasm
4 Splinter Twin
Lands
11 Island
8 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Flashfreeze
1 Pyroclasm
1 Batterskull
2 Jace Beleren
1 Consecrated Sphinx
3 Spellskite
2 Spell Pierce
1 Dispel
2 Manic Vandal
I haven't tried the deck with tectonic edge, but I'm sure that they will be an improvement. I like the sideboard ALOT it has so many answers to everything. The mirror where drawing more/landing a skite is important, control where drawing more becomes important, Vandal for Tempered Steel decks and other artifact decks, Batterskull and Pyroclasm for other aggro decks (Batterskull is still sick against aggro even if you aren't playing it with sfm), and lastly counters/spellskites for the hate people will be bringing in game 2.