I think I'd like another board sweeper or 2 more than you've got. You've got plenty of indestructibility effects, so Austere Command or Wrath of God or something.
I also realized that Ajani Unyielding is less powerful than I had thought, so it's still in, but on the chopping block if a better idea shows up.
There's one or 2 slots though that I wanted to ask for ideas on: Sometimes you have a bunch of mana, draw a lot of cards, and you just want to win. So what in the 7-10 mana range, not red, is good for that? Right now I've got Blatant Thievery there, so it would replace either that or Ajani Unyielding. Some that might fit the bill:
Good stuff, definitely like to hear about people's experiences with the deck.
One thing I did want to point out in Ertai's last post though:
Venser is awesome too, can allow you to use a PW two times per turn
I don't think that works. You activate the target planeswalker, then you activate Venser, the Sojourner to exile that planeswalker until end of beginning of the next end step, then it returns and you can't activate the planeswalker again because it is no longer your main phase. (Edit: Unless you have Teferi, Temporal Archmage emblem) Resetting Spike Weaver is nice, resetting the counters on a planeswalker that was lower than starting loyalty is nice, making Vraska tokens unblockable is a game win.. Just seems less impressive than other things I could be doing with the slot.
Hi, so I've been toying with a deck along similar lines to Meatwalker's deck. Seems like a fun opportunity to compare.
Cards that seem good to me, but I haven't put in yet: Spike Weaver Got that idea here, thanks! Austere Command (easy upgrade over Phyrexian Rebirth) Rhystic Study Narset Transcendent Initially I didn't like this one because you're about 40% to whiff on the +1 ability. But it's been growing on me considering the possibilities of the -2. And the high starting loyalty is nice. Yavimaya Hollow Atraxa blocks something big or there's a board wipe and this lets her live. Kor Haven Slightly worse Maze of Ith, but probably worth it.
Cards that kind of "win more". I try to put only a few of the best of these in. Rings of Brighthearth, Strionic Resonator, The Chain Veil Can be strong but they do nothing if you don't have relevant things to copy on the board. Also, you're paying mana so that's something in your hand not being cast. Inexorable Tide Haven't tested extensively, but on paper I'm not impressed: You need things with counters on board, and you need things in hand to cast. Could be good at times, just not always. (Edit: On further testing, totally a good card) Contagion Engine, Deepglow Skate Yep, running these.
Cards that are so strong that I don't play them - keeping deck power down for the local meta. They do good if you're into that. Humility, Doubling Season, Meekstone
Cards from mine that seem like an upgrade: Crop Rotation Extra copy of Maze of Ith. Respond to opponent's attempt reanimate a big dude or combo piece by Bojuka Bog exiling their graveyard. Awakening Zone, From Beyond Same line of thought as Bitterblossom, but these chump block, mana ramp and don't cost life. No flying is very relevant, but they seem good still. (Edit: Taking these out. Too slow.) Luminarch Ascension Play it turn 2 if you don't mind being a target. Or wrath + ascension on same turn later. If they somehow give you 1-3 counters, then proliferate it up. Hope you have enough white mana once it's at 4 counters. Calciform Pools, Dreadship Reef, Saltcrusted Steppe Comes in as untapped colorless source initially and proliferate for more mana later. Ajani Unyielding Bonkers card. Average around 1.8 non-land cards off of the +2. Swords effect in a pinch. Only thing he doesn't do is win the game directly, but after a few +2 you'll find something that does. (Edit: Correction, 1.3 cards instead of 1.8. For some reason I missed the "permanent" part of that ability.) Sorin, Solemn Visitor This is mostly here for a "Cast, +1, Proliferate at end of turn, Emblem next turn" scenario. Can also gain you life or finish the game by buffing tokens. Baral's Expertise, Mystic Confluence These are mostly for sitting back and bouncing whatever creatures try to attack your planeswalkers. Extra value too. Cryptic Command could go in this category as well, but the triple blue mana symbols kept me away from that. Black Sun's Zenith, Toxic Deluge Sometimes opponents play like Avacyn, Angel of Hope or Xenagos, God of Revels and Lightning Greaves it - you really need that gone. Also, just more board wipes generally.
On a strategy note, you'll notice that mine is huge on ramp (and a little lower on land). Also more board wipes. The ramp count could arguably go down a bit, but I think having lots of removal is super important. Things like Leyline of Sanctity, Cathars' Crusade, Inexorable Tide - they really don't do much on their own. So I'm happy to run less of that "support" kind of card.
Sci Fi Genre, Durham NC
1. Competent judges & staff
2. Typical prize distribution is to top 50% of the field. (1st/2nd gets less than some other places, but since I'm usually in that 3rd to whatever section, this is great.)
3. Deli is both literally next door and better than most fast-food joints.
4. Somewhat competitive metagame. No true "pro" players and most people play more for fun than focus on winning. But when an SCG tourney or GP nearby the place empties out and a few locals finish well on the larger scene.
5. Weekly legacy tourneys. (Only store in the area that regularly and reliably fires that format.)
All undying creatures immediately return to the battlefield at the exact same time on both sides. With all creatures now on the battlefield, NOW we follow APNAP for ETB trigger order, meaning that his Metamorphs (as defending player) copy my Flayer (which is already on the battlefield) then trigger the Flayers' abilities
One problem with this reasoning has already been pointed out, but as a footnote I'll add a 2nd thing that was wrong with it.
Clone-type effects (Clone, Phyrexian Metamorph, Phantasmal Image) must choose something to copy that existed on the battlefield prior to their own entering the battlefield. If all creatures entered at same time (which they don't here, but if they did), then the Metamorph could not copy anything entering at same time. This would be relevant in cases like Living Death, Show and Tell, or Genesis Wave.
The reason for this stems from rule 400.6:
400.6. If an object would move from one zone to another, determine what event is moving the object. If the object is moving to a public zone, all players look at it to see if it has any abilities that would affect the move. Then any appropriate replacement effects, whether they come from that object or from elsewhere, are applied to that event. If any effects or rules try to do two or more contradictory or mutually exclusive things to a particular object, that object’s controller—or its owner if it has no controller—chooses which effect to apply, and what that effect does. (Note that multiple instances of the same thing may be mutually exclusive; for example, two simultaneous “destroy” effects.) Then the event moves the object.
Lastly when can a creature be tapped, I know it can not be tapped the turn you cast it. If you have out Lurking Predators and you put those creatures into play on your opponents turn can you tap those creatures? Also if you lose control of you creature and get it back can you tap it on your turn?
Exsam already correctly answered this, but there is a nuance that you may not have caught: the word "Tap" and the tap symbol are not the same thing. Costs including the tap symbol cannot be paid while the creature is summoning sick. Costs including the word "tap" can be paid immediately (example: Grand Architect's last ability)
Here is the exact wording for the rule:
302.6. A creature‘s activated ability with the tap symbol or the untap symbol in its activation cost can‘t be activated unless the creature has been under its controller‘s control continuously since his or her most recent turn began. A creature can‘t attack unless it has been under its controller‘s control continuously since his or her most recent turn began. This rule is informally called the ―summoning sickness‖ rule.
To the OP: You've made one mistake that happens to be same thing I did when starting out... The ratio of creatures to things-that-do-nothing-without-a-creature is too small on the creature side.
Spirit Mantle, Butcher's Cleaver, Cobbled Wings, Sharpened Pitchfork: I would not run more than 4 copies of Auras/Equipment. Also, I happen to think that Cobbled Wings and Spirit Mantle are trash. Consider some mix of Cleaver, Pitchfork, Angelic Destiny, Sword of War and Peace, Sword of Feast and Famine.
True Conviction: how often do you hit your 6th land and have multiple creatures already in play to get the bonus from this? Probably not often, so cut this. Honor of the Pure on the other hand, might be worth adding a 4th copy: it is cheap enough.
Are you trying to stay in the 3 CMC or less category? If no, Hero of Bladehold is a very good card. Keeping the CMC of the deck down is respectable since it allows you to also keep your land count low. Just depends what your goal is here.
Suppose player A controls Delver of Secrets and player B controls Ratchet Bomb with 1 counter on it. It is the beginning of player A's upkeep.
1. Am I correct that the transform part of Delver trigger does not create a separate entity on the stack? In other words, if player B does not activate the Ratchet Bomb prior to an instant or sorcery being revealed, then there is no opportunity to activate Ratchet Bomb prior to Delver becoming CMC 0?
2. Suppose player A reveals the instant or sorcery before player B clearly allows the Delver trigger to resolve. What might determine whether the Delver trigger is considered to have resolved or not? (This coming from someone who serves as a judge on occasion. Comes down to player communication of course, just looking for tips on how to call it.)
Tip: Play land pre-combat when Wolf-Run in play. Don't try to be cute and mind-game them by holding it.
I lost a match at States *only* from that 1 mistake: Wurmcoil swinging into 2 inkmoths in an Esper control deck, he goes Snapcaster - Dismember wurmcoil going to 6 life - block with 1 Inkmoth & Mage, and I'm 1 mana short of killing with Wolf Run. And then I lose the following turn to the remaining Inkmoth.
My meta is mostly pod/rdw/steel but 4-5 of the best player play b/u control u/w control or solar flare.
I put 2 trun main and 2 side ... Any good card i can play main/side to help my control matchup ?
I've noticed this problem as well (and it was happening vs. Valakut last season too).. How about Autumn's Veil? 1 mana counter your couterspell or removal.. I haven't tested it yet -- anyone here with experience on that?
Had this one come up in an EDH game and wanted to check our rules understanding:
Suppose Academy Rector dies in combat. Its ability triggers and is on the stack while it is in the graveyard. If Withered Wretch (or any other card that exiles from the graveyard) were activated to exile Academy Rector, would the "search your library for an enchantment card, put that card onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library." part occur?
My thinking is that the Rector is getting exiled either way. So that would suggest yes. However, it is not being exiled using the Academy Rector's ability. So that might suggest no. Really hinges on to what exactly the 'If you do' clause refers, and I'm not sure of that part.
How about getting out most of the taplands? Your goal is to be fast here, remember. Terramorphic Expanse, Evolving Wilds, Razorverge Thicket, Bant Panorama These I think would be first to go. Selesnya Sanctuary, Myriad Landscape, Krosan Verge I can see more upside to those, so might be worth it (not sure). Could be basics if nothing else.
Horizon Canopy seems like a strictly better City of Brass or Mana Confluence.
Banishing Light seems like a strictly better Song of the Dryads (because they don't get a forest). Edit: Maybe not. Song is an Aura, while Banishing Light is not. Interactions with Kor Spiritdancer, Open the Armory, Sram, etc.
Yavimaya Hollow is a good card.
I think I'd like another board sweeper or 2 more than you've got. You've got plenty of indestructibility effects, so Austere Command or Wrath of God or something.
- Contagion Engine, - Awakening Zone, - From Beyond
+ Inexorable Tide, + Cultivate, + Blatant Thievery
I also realized that Ajani Unyielding is less powerful than I had thought, so it's still in, but on the chopping block if a better idea shows up.
There's one or 2 slots though that I wanted to ask for ideas on: Sometimes you have a bunch of mana, draw a lot of cards, and you just want to win. So what in the 7-10 mana range, not red, is good for that? Right now I've got Blatant Thievery there, so it would replace either that or Ajani Unyielding. Some that might fit the bill:
Thoughts?
One thing I did want to point out in Ertai's last post though:
I don't think that works. You activate the target planeswalker, then you activate Venser, the Sojourner to exile that planeswalker until end of beginning of the next end step, then it returns and you can't activate the planeswalker again because it is no longer your main phase. (Edit: Unless you have Teferi, Temporal Archmage emblem) Resetting Spike Weaver is nice, resetting the counters on a planeswalker that was lower than starting loyalty is nice, making Vraska tokens unblockable is a game win.. Just seems less impressive than other things I could be doing with the slot.
Cards that seem good to me, but I haven't put in yet:
Spike Weaver Got that idea here, thanks!
Austere Command (easy upgrade over Phyrexian Rebirth)
Rhystic Study
Narset Transcendent Initially I didn't like this one because you're about 40% to whiff on the +1 ability. But it's been growing on me considering the possibilities of the -2. And the high starting loyalty is nice.
Yavimaya Hollow Atraxa blocks something big or there's a board wipe and this lets her live.
Kor Haven Slightly worse Maze of Ith, but probably worth it.
Cards that kind of "win more". I try to put only a few of the best of these in.
Rings of Brighthearth, Strionic Resonator, The Chain Veil Can be strong but they do nothing if you don't have relevant things to copy on the board. Also, you're paying mana so that's something in your hand not being cast.
Inexorable Tide Haven't tested extensively, but on paper I'm not impressed: You need things with counters on board, and you need things in hand to cast. Could be good at times, just not always. (Edit: On further testing, totally a good card)
Contagion Engine, Deepglow Skate Yep, running these.
Cards that are so strong that I don't play them - keeping deck power down for the local meta. They do good if you're into that.
Humility, Doubling Season, Meekstone
Cards from mine that seem like an upgrade:
Crop Rotation Extra copy of Maze of Ith. Respond to opponent's attempt reanimate a big dude or combo piece by Bojuka Bog exiling their graveyard.
Awakening Zone, From Beyond Same line of thought as Bitterblossom, but these chump block, mana ramp and don't cost life. No flying is very relevant, but they seem good still. (Edit: Taking these out. Too slow.)
Luminarch Ascension Play it turn 2 if you don't mind being a target. Or wrath + ascension on same turn later. If they somehow give you 1-3 counters, then proliferate it up. Hope you have enough white mana once it's at 4 counters.
Calciform Pools, Dreadship Reef, Saltcrusted Steppe Comes in as untapped colorless source initially and proliferate for more mana later.
Ajani Unyielding Bonkers card. Average around 1.8 non-land cards off of the +2. Swords effect in a pinch. Only thing he doesn't do is win the game directly, but after a few +2 you'll find something that does. (Edit: Correction, 1.3 cards instead of 1.8. For some reason I missed the "permanent" part of that ability.)
Sorin, Solemn Visitor This is mostly here for a "Cast, +1, Proliferate at end of turn, Emblem next turn" scenario. Can also gain you life or finish the game by buffing tokens.
Baral's Expertise, Mystic Confluence These are mostly for sitting back and bouncing whatever creatures try to attack your planeswalkers. Extra value too. Cryptic Command could go in this category as well, but the triple blue mana symbols kept me away from that.
Black Sun's Zenith, Toxic Deluge Sometimes opponents play like Avacyn, Angel of Hope or Xenagos, God of Revels and Lightning Greaves it - you really need that gone. Also, just more board wipes generally.
Cards in Meatwalker's deck that seem sub-par. None horribly bad, but some I tried and didn't seem good enough:
Oath of Gideon, Kiora, Master of the Depths, Venser, the Sojourner, all of the Tri lands (you've got good enough mana without them)
On a strategy note, you'll notice that mine is huge on ramp (and a little lower on land). Also more board wipes. The ramp count could arguably go down a bit, but I think having lots of removal is super important. Things like Leyline of Sanctity, Cathars' Crusade, Inexorable Tide - they really don't do much on their own. So I'm happy to run less of that "support" kind of card.
Lands (38)
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Calciform Pools
1 Dreadship Reef
1 Saltcrusted Steppe
1 Command Tower
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Woodland Cemetary
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
2 Swamp
3 Plains
3 Forest
3 Island
1 Sol Ring
1 Golgari Signet
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Simic Signet
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Astral Cornucopia
1 Farseek
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Awakening Zone
1 From Beyond
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wood Elves
1 Deepglow Skate
Planeswalkers (26)
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Ajani Unyielding
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Dovin Baan
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Karn Liberated
1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Liliana Vess
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Sorin Markov
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Oath of Jace
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Contagion Engine
1 Tezzeret's Gambit
1 Luminarch Ascension
Removal/Bounce (13)
1 Aura Shards
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Baral's Expertise
1 Mystic Confluence
1 Phyrexian Rebirth
1 Fumigate
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1. Competent judges & staff
2. Typical prize distribution is to top 50% of the field. (1st/2nd gets less than some other places, but since I'm usually in that 3rd to whatever section, this is great.)
3. Deli is both literally next door and better than most fast-food joints.
4. Somewhat competitive metagame. No true "pro" players and most people play more for fun than focus on winning. But when an SCG tourney or GP nearby the place empties out and a few locals finish well on the larger scene.
5. Weekly legacy tourneys. (Only store in the area that regularly and reliably fires that format.)
One problem with this reasoning has already been pointed out, but as a footnote I'll add a 2nd thing that was wrong with it.
Clone-type effects (Clone, Phyrexian Metamorph, Phantasmal Image) must choose something to copy that existed on the battlefield prior to their own entering the battlefield. If all creatures entered at same time (which they don't here, but if they did), then the Metamorph could not copy anything entering at same time. This would be relevant in cases like Living Death, Show and Tell, or Genesis Wave.
The reason for this stems from rule 400.6:
Stonehorn Dignitary
Exsam already correctly answered this, but there is a nuance that you may not have caught: the word "Tap" and the tap symbol are not the same thing. Costs including the tap symbol cannot be paid while the creature is summoning sick. Costs including the word "tap" can be paid immediately (example: Grand Architect's last ability)
Here is the exact wording for the rule:
Spirit Mantle, Butcher's Cleaver, Cobbled Wings, Sharpened Pitchfork: I would not run more than 4 copies of Auras/Equipment. Also, I happen to think that Cobbled Wings and Spirit Mantle are trash. Consider some mix of Cleaver, Pitchfork, Angelic Destiny, Sword of War and Peace, Sword of Feast and Famine.
True Conviction: how often do you hit your 6th land and have multiple creatures already in play to get the bonus from this? Probably not often, so cut this. Honor of the Pure on the other hand, might be worth adding a 4th copy: it is cheap enough.
Are you trying to stay in the 3 CMC or less category? If no, Hero of Bladehold is a very good card. Keeping the CMC of the deck down is respectable since it allows you to also keep your land count low. Just depends what your goal is here.
Elite Vanguard is an OK card. Same for Gideon's Lawkeeper. Leonin Relic-Warder isn't a human, but I'd play it -- perhaps as a 2-of. Not being a human can even be advantage when Stromkirk Noble on your opponent's side.
So summary.. Creature count up, creature enhancers down. A small amount of removal and another land or 3 would be worth a thought, but optional IMO.
"Beat" when turning cards sideways means "to attack".
1. Am I correct that the transform part of Delver trigger does not create a separate entity on the stack? In other words, if player B does not activate the Ratchet Bomb prior to an instant or sorcery being revealed, then there is no opportunity to activate Ratchet Bomb prior to Delver becoming CMC 0?
2. Suppose player A reveals the instant or sorcery before player B clearly allows the Delver trigger to resolve. What might determine whether the Delver trigger is considered to have resolved or not? (This coming from someone who serves as a judge on occasion. Comes down to player communication of course, just looking for tips on how to call it.)
I lost a match at States *only* from that 1 mistake: Wurmcoil swinging into 2 inkmoths in an Esper control deck, he goes Snapcaster - Dismember wurmcoil going to 6 life - block with 1 Inkmoth & Mage, and I'm 1 mana short of killing with Wolf Run. And then I lose the following turn to the remaining Inkmoth.
I've noticed this problem as well (and it was happening vs. Valakut last season too).. How about Autumn's Veil? 1 mana counter your couterspell or removal.. I haven't tested it yet -- anyone here with experience on that?
Had this one come up in an EDH game and wanted to check our rules understanding:
Suppose Academy Rector dies in combat. Its ability triggers and is on the stack while it is in the graveyard. If Withered Wretch (or any other card that exiles from the graveyard) were activated to exile Academy Rector, would the "search your library for an enchantment card, put that card onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library." part occur?
My thinking is that the Rector is getting exiled either way. So that would suggest yes. However, it is not being exiled using the Academy Rector's ability. So that might suggest no. Really hinges on to what exactly the 'If you do' clause refers, and I'm not sure of that part.