Is it possible to use the mana given by LED to pay for tha madness cost, if the madness trigger (=discarding the card) come form the activation of LED.
I hope i made myself clear.. thanks a lot for the answers!!
I'm liking the idea of Tidespout Tyrant. Gerry Thompson and Reid Duke were both running it this past Open. It just seems nuts as a second target after a Griselbrand. Draw a bunch of cards, then use them to bounce the opponent's entire board, Karakas and all.
I loved the idea of the tyrant and because i was never 100% happy with the angel of despair in the MB, so i replaced it.
In some game he was awsome, BUT i had such a hard time beating a Karakas or a Maze of Ith. Sure i can/should counter the KotR to prevent the problematic lands from beeing tutored. but lands can be drawn from the top of the deck (as we know). what to do then? how do you beat these lands?
I am running the following list and as far as I can tell it is good in todays meta. Good against rug, and stoneblade. There is just one problem I have with this deck. In the late game (and there we need to go in order to win) I often get stuck in topdeck mode…sometimes it costs me game, if I am not having good draws. Is anyone else having this problem?? I would like to solve this issue. I was thinking about two options:
1. Adding 3 jtms and some fetches/Tundras /mystic gates. He is a late game bomb and he is bringing card quality as well as card quantity. The problem I see with him is the cost (double blue)
2. Adding 2-3 Sylvan Library and 3-4 fetches and a savannah. It brings card quality and is much easyer to cast the jtms.
i prefere the sylvan library solution...
MY list now:
4 CotV
3 3sphere
2 tanglewire
3 armageddon
3 o-ring
4 Ghostly prison
4 mox diamond
3 crucible of worlds
2 elspeth v.1
3 magus of the tabernacle
1 hero of bladehold
3 smokestack >>> 3 jtms or 3sylvan library??
4 city of traitors
4 Ancient tomb
4 Wasteland
3 Flagstones
3 mishra's factory
1 Kor haven
6 Plains
I consider the smokestack as the weakest card at the moment, this is why it cutted them. but i am open to other sugestions
I was trying the gifts-storm approach (but not a "controlish-version") and i like it so far.
I could not see any sense in a control-deck that uses a storm engine to win. In my opinion you give up lots of speed and don’t get much for that sacrifice I am not willing to give up speed and not getting consistency in exchange. but maybe that is just me, but as long as i am playing strom i allways go All in (as unkyunk said).
At my LGS we have a little modern event next week and i would like to hear your comments on my list. thanks in advance!
DRAW/TUTOR (8)
4 Gifts
4 Serum Vision
RITUALS & CO (14)
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
2 Pyretic Ritual
4 Manamorphose
THE ENGINE (7)
2 Past in Flames
2 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Noxious Revival
1 Increasing Vengeance
9 power for 5 mana?? but you have to pay the echo...or it is 5 mana for 4 power..or 10 Mana for 9 Power with the echo...or am i getting something wrong?
and you have to pay the echo even when you get him with the Pod. or am i wrong?
@Chimera87:
How does your manabase look like with the Tar Pit? did you cut a fetch for it?
Mine looks like this:
3 UndergroundSea
3 Trop.Island
2 Island
4 Deltas
4 Rainforests > or > 3 Rainforest and 1TarPit
4 Wasteland
4 Factorys
our SB must look almost the same
@Kevinliu
i agree with you that this is a deck that forced you to be absolutly focused in order to win. But this makes it fun. And the look on some peoples faces when they got beaten by some factries is priceless!
i think the 2 loams MB are a must at the moment to beat all the tempo decks...
I am convinced that in the current meta the BUG-Jacestill is a good option.
I have two issues i like to talk about and hear some thoughts from other players.
1. What do you think about Creeping Tar Pit as Factory 5-x??
I tried it as a one-of and wasent happy with it, mainly for two reasons. First it comes in tapped which can be a huge disadvantage. second it cost 3 mana to make it a creature and then you have to tap the tar pit as well. this often forces you to tap out during your turn, which is not at alll what this deck should do.
2. what kind of removal setup do you play and why?
i play 2 Inncoent Blood, 1 Ghastly Demise and 1 Smother as spot removals (but i do change them all the time). in addition i play 4 Deeds and 2 lil`lilis as board control. But a friend of mine argued that lil`lili shouldent be in a removal slot cause she is too slow/expensive to be an effectiv solution the threats such as goyf (not my opinion). what do you think about this?
And in the SB i have the SnT-Emrakul-Package to bring in. i like it a lot, cause most of the hate the opponents bring is useless against Emrakul.. BUT i am still unsure what to take out (at least 6 cards) against what kind of decks... Do you take out combo-parts as well? i never do that, but that reduces my options..
any thoughts about the sieboarding with this deck are very wellcom ...
@ Lim-Dul: Personally I would run -1 Innocent Blood and +1 Dismember. Innocent blood is good but ideally you want to use your spot removal at the end of your opponent's turn to clear the board and have mana to cast Still on your turn. Innocent blood being a sorcery doesn't allow this. Unfortunatly unlike white black doesnt have great instant speed 1CMC spot removal (sorry but Ghastly Demise doesn't do it for me). This is why i would include 1-2 dismember, while losing life while playing Still is undersirable creating CA and an advantagous board state should be your first priority. (life is just another resource after all) It also serves as spot removal that you can use if you dont have any black mana (If your opponent is wastelanding your Seas and/or using Stifle on your fetches or if you are just not drawing any and need to remove a troublesome creature) also mid to late game you can hard cast it when you have mana its only 1 more than your other spot removal. I personally also run 1 Island 1 Swamp 1 Forest so that reoccuring Wastelands dont screw me (cause you can't cast LftL w/o a green mana source) I really hate 42 Lands. Not sure about Karakas or Academy Ruins though since you dont run white Its not as appealing as it is in UWx and Ruins is slow plus right now you dont have any artifacts to use w/ it. Overall your deck does look quite good, how's Liliana been for you? Ive been trying to fit her in my BUG Still deck for some time but Im already tight on MD slots so I haven't been able to more than 2-3 times though she did win me 1 of those games basically single-handedly.
you are absolutly right about the innocent blood, but i wasnt really convinced with the dismembers (i tryed them) cause of the life loss. but i should/will give them another chance...
the thing with the basic lands is, that i never ever want to draw or start with a forest. i am playing 3 counterspells so i am very hungry for blue mana. im some MUs i had problems with it, but usually i can handle some wastes (which are very often used against me to hit the factorys anyway). and i am very careful with the fetches when i realize that i need green mana for a lftL.
Lil`Lili is super in this deck (if you dont play in a combo heavy meta, which i am not). she is good in the long games vs control-decks and helps a lot agains aggro too. even if she is just an edict and a fog. if you can play her on an empty board backed up with all the permision-spells this deck offers she can win games quite quick. or allow jace and the factorys to win it (just to be precise)
BUG-Landstill is my Pet deck and i love to play it no matter how the meta looks. At the moment i saw Lili 2.0 in the spolier i wanted to try her out in this deck. And after the first testing i can say that she is awsome!!!
LANDS
4 Factorys
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
SB
3 Veldilion Clique
3 Thoughtseize
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Intuition
1 Worm Harvest
2 Diabolic Edict
Any comments on the list are very welcom..
At the moment you can bring her on an empty board (sure, not against Combo) she is as BOMB!! and even if she has to kill one creature first to survive she is still good...
And together with LftL your opponent is loosing his hand over the following turns and you have time to stabilize while she kills the coming threats..
Fazit: In a meta with mainly control and/or aggro decks she is deffinitly a good addition to this deck!! like her a lot!! the more combo the meta the less she deserves her spots MB.
what do you think about the new lilian? i can see her fitting in the deck quite well. she is a edict and maybe even a repetable edict. d evne if you only get one creature and she dies after that, it is ok too for three mana...
sure she doesnt win and she is not the bomb under standstill, but as a edict that might live on.. as a one-of..??
I did not make that experiance...if a null rod drops and you dont have the TWO card solution ready...good luck trying to find these tow pieces... i can see this as a solutionagainst the white leyline but not against null rod..i lost a lot of games due to a null rod.. even after boarding in REBs...
what do you think is it worths? it is on a FBB tropical island...
The small one in the down corner is from the artist jesper myrfors. i assume...
but the big one in the center looks a bit like the signature of richard garfield.
what do you think?
It is about the interaction of the Lion's Eye Diamond and card with madness such as Arrogant Wurm.
Is it possible to use the mana given by LED to pay for tha madness cost, if the madness trigger (=discarding the card) come form the activation of LED.
I hope i made myself clear.. thanks a lot for the answers!!
I loved the idea of the tyrant and because i was never 100% happy with the angel of despair in the MB, so i replaced it.
In some game he was awsome, BUT i had such a hard time beating a Karakas or a Maze of Ith. Sure i can/should counter the KotR to prevent the problematic lands from beeing tutored. but lands can be drawn from the top of the deck (as we know). what to do then? how do you beat these lands?
1. Adding 3 jtms and some fetches/Tundras /mystic gates. He is a late game bomb and he is bringing card quality as well as card quantity. The problem I see with him is the cost (double blue)
2. Adding 2-3 Sylvan Library and 3-4 fetches and a savannah. It brings card quality and is much easyer to cast the jtms.
i prefere the sylvan library solution...
MY list now:
4 CotV
3 3sphere
2 tanglewire
3 armageddon
3 o-ring
4 Ghostly prison
4 mox diamond
3 crucible of worlds
2 elspeth v.1
3 magus of the tabernacle
1 hero of bladehold
3 smokestack >>> 3 jtms or 3sylvan library??
4 city of traitors
4 Ancient tomb
4 Wasteland
3 Flagstones
3 mishra's factory
1 Kor haven
6 Plains
I consider the smokestack as the weakest card at the moment, this is why it cutted them. but i am open to other sugestions
I could not see any sense in a control-deck that uses a storm engine to win. In my opinion you give up lots of speed and don’t get much for that sacrifice I am not willing to give up speed and not getting consistency in exchange. but maybe that is just me, but as long as i am playing strom i allways go All in (as unkyunk said).
At my LGS we have a little modern event next week and i would like to hear your comments on my list. thanks in advance!
DRAW/TUTOR (8)
4 Gifts
4 Serum Vision
RITUALS & CO (14)
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
2 Pyretic Ritual
4 Manamorphose
THE ENGINE (7)
2 Past in Flames
2 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Noxious Revival
1 Increasing Vengeance
PROTECTION (10)
4 Remand
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Lightning Bolt
LANDS (21)
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Shivan Reef
3 Islands
2 Halimar Depths
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
SIDEBOARD
4 Deciever Exarch
2 Pestermite
4 Splinter Twin
1 Kiki-Jiki
2 Disspell
2 Mana Leak
and you have to pay the echo even when you get him with the Pod. or am i wrong?
if not, does the dismember getting counter by a chalice of the void @1 if i play it for one colorless?
Please use card tags in future posts. The Forum Guidelines explain how to do that. -Carsten
How does your manabase look like with the Tar Pit? did you cut a fetch for it?
Mine looks like this:
3 UndergroundSea
3 Trop.Island
2 Island
4 Deltas
4 Rainforests > or > 3 Rainforest and 1TarPit
4 Wasteland
4 Factorys
our SB must look almost the same
@Kevinliu
i agree with you that this is a deck that forced you to be absolutly focused in order to win. But this makes it fun. And the look on some peoples faces when they got beaten by some factries is priceless!
i think the 2 loams MB are a must at the moment to beat all the tempo decks...
I have two issues i like to talk about and hear some thoughts from other players.
1. What do you think about Creeping Tar Pit as Factory 5-x??
I tried it as a one-of and wasent happy with it, mainly for two reasons. First it comes in tapped which can be a huge disadvantage. second it cost 3 mana to make it a creature and then you have to tap the tar pit as well. this often forces you to tap out during your turn, which is not at alll what this deck should do.
2. what kind of removal setup do you play and why?
i play 2 Inncoent Blood, 1 Ghastly Demise and 1 Smother as spot removals (but i do change them all the time). in addition i play 4 Deeds and 2 lil`lilis as board control. But a friend of mine argued that lil`lili shouldent be in a removal slot cause she is too slow/expensive to be an effectiv solution the threats such as goyf (not my opinion). what do you think about this?
Creatures:
4 Painters
4 Goblin Welders
2 Spellskite
Instants:
4 Brainstorm
4 FoW
4 Intuition
3 REB
Artefacts:
4 Tops
4 Grindstones
3 Mox opal
3 LED
21 lands
And in the SB i have the SnT-Emrakul-Package to bring in. i like it a lot, cause most of the hate the opponents bring is useless against Emrakul.. BUT i am still unsure what to take out (at least 6 cards) against what kind of decks... Do you take out combo-parts as well? i never do that, but that reduces my options..
any thoughts about the sieboarding with this deck are very wellcom ...
you are absolutly right about the innocent blood, but i wasnt really convinced with the dismembers (i tryed them) cause of the life loss. but i should/will give them another chance...
the thing with the basic lands is, that i never ever want to draw or start with a forest. i am playing 3 counterspells so i am very hungry for blue mana. im some MUs i had problems with it, but usually i can handle some wastes (which are very often used against me to hit the factorys anyway). and i am very careful with the fetches when i realize that i need green mana for a lftL.
Lil`Lili is super in this deck (if you dont play in a combo heavy meta, which i am not). she is good in the long games vs control-decks and helps a lot agains aggro too. even if she is just an edict and a fog. if you can play her on an empty board backed up with all the permision-spells this deck offers she can win games quite quick. or allow jace and the factorys to win it (just to be precise)
My deck looks like this at the moment:
DRAW/CA
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
4 Jace 2.0
2 LftL
COUNTER
4 FoW
3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
REMOVAL
4 Deed
2 Lili 2.0
2 Innocent Blood
1 GftT
1 Smother
LANDS
4 Factorys
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
SB
3 Veldilion Clique
3 Thoughtseize
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Intuition
1 Worm Harvest
2 Diabolic Edict
Any comments on the list are very welcom..
At the moment you can bring her on an empty board (sure, not against Combo) she is as BOMB!! and even if she has to kill one creature first to survive she is still good...
And together with LftL your opponent is loosing his hand over the following turns and you have time to stabilize while she kills the coming threats..
Fazit: In a meta with mainly control and/or aggro decks she is deffinitly a good addition to this deck!! like her a lot!! the more combo the meta the less she deserves her spots MB.
and jace now has a babe to play...;)
sure she doesnt win and she is not the bomb under standstill, but as a edict that might live on.. as a one-of..??