*Also I agree with you that Ichorid would definitely see a place. I don't want to see Ichorid in Modern. Our local Dredge dude was frothing at the mouth at a potential reprint. And I mean Dredge dude; he owes his first Pro Tour qualification to the ubiquitous Golgari Grave-Troll.
I go to the same LGS as FoodChainGoblins, and this is how my FNM went:
Round 1 vs. Infect: 2-1.
Game 3, he doesn't find a second land until turn 4, and I don't find a kill until turn 6. It was a lot of draw-go, but I eventually found the kill.
Round 2 vs. Abzan: 2-1.
I play Bloodmoon in game 2 and proceed to just get ripped apart by discard spells and die from his basic swamp. In game 3, top decking a Bloodmoon after his IoK locks him down to a basic swamp and basic forest. He has a 2/3 goyf as his only threat, giving me plenty of time to find 5 lands, TTB, and both Worm and Griselbrand. When I find the 5th land I slam TTB to put in Worm (he was at 18 at this point) before picking it back up after realizing I'd be dead to Maelstrom Pulse (which I know he has in deck - incidentally I found out after the game that he also had 2 Engineered Explosives he sided in). Instead I waited until his end step to put Griselbrand in and kill him on the next turn.
Round 3 vs 4 Color Shadow (This is the same person from FoodChainGoblins' round 2): Draw.
Friend of mine. I feel like I have a bad match up, he feels like I get lucky a lot. We decide to draw.
Round 4 vs Elves: 2-1.
Game 1 he does Elf things and I can't find the kill fast enough. Game 2 he goes to 4 cards and still would have killed me on turn 4 if he'd gotten to it. Game 3 he Thoughtseizes me to see TTB, 2x Anger of the Gods, Lightning Axe, 2x Night's Whisper, and 2 lands. I take the game on turn 4 after finding another TTB, a Wurm, using the Lightning Axe, and killing 3 creatures with Anger.
Ended 3-0-1.
I have 1 Noxious Revival in the main deck, which has been performing very well for me both as another green card for Shoal and to flip things back on top of my deck during the combo turn.
I've been very unimpressed with Cathartic Reunion in this deck. Next week I'm going to try subbing in Tormenting Voice instead.
I feel the same way, which is giving me fits while side boarding. We used to have so many slots filled with mediocre-bad cards just to fill space in the deck. Now reunion is in a lot of those slots and feels bad to take out. Taking one out feels like siding out a faithless, and I've never considered doing that.
So, I have a different view on side boarding with this deck. I normally take out 5-7 cards, and bring in 6-8. In my experience, our game 1 match up is SO much more powerful than what other decks are doing that if we can get enough anti-hate to force through even a slightly diluted game one state we are going to win. However, the hate cards against us are so strong, if we can't get rid of them we're just playing an above-average draft deck.
With the introduction of cathartic reunion, I am relearning how to side board. Those slots used to be filled with cards that were so mediocre it didn't feel bad at all to just cut them for games 2 and 3.
I will keep notes on what I took in and out next week to give examples of how I board. At FNM this week, there were 2 or 3 extremely grindy games that ended with me winning at 0 cards in deck after boarding up to 61-62. I ended up playing the only other two people on dredge in rounds 1 and 2. I won, but both matches stalled out to time, with me winning in turns on 0 cards in deck.
Round 3 was Jund with a complete sweep. I whiffed on a reunion (loam as dredger, hits salvage, hits nothing) but the next card I drew was the one lightning axe in the main for the Scooze he played on 2. He never plays another relevant card game 1. Game two, he flips Anger with Bob on turn three, then plays an overgrown tomb (making his lands tomb/tomb/ravine). He never sees another red source and shows me the double anger in his hand after game.
Round 4 was Mardu 'Greatness at any cost'. Game one wasn't that interesting. I win. Game two though, I played the game so wrong. I thought he was going the control route, but he went the souls-beats-burn route instead. I tried playing around anger of the gods and rest in peace by splitting up my resources. I kept some in grave and some on field and didn't conflag souls tokens when I should have. He ended up beating me down and having multiple bolts and helix to finish me off. Game three, I was reminded of something I had never thought of: Nahiri can get artifacts. This was relevant because I had 4 amalgams and a ghast on field and all but 5 cards of my deck in my grave. I was also over 40 life from gnaw to the bone (brought in after game 2). He ults Nahiri, I go to sac some lands and a Bloodghast. He instead gets a nihil spellbomb, K-returns my Bloodghast away (putting 3 in the grave - this number is important) and spellbombs me, leaving me with 4 amalgams, 5 cards in deck, and no hand. I untap, draw my 4th ghast, and hit down to 2 with the amalgams. He untaps, plays a Bob as a blocker, has a shambling vents ready to activate, and has a bolt in hand. This would leave him at 1 life and he could untap with a full grip. I play the ghast with haste to attack him down to -1. So yeah, Nahiri can get artifacts. Who knew?
I drew round 5 against infect for first and second place.
I like your report. Good job on your top 4 finish.
You bring up a good point on mulligan decisions with this deck. The dredge mechanic allows you to mulligan extremely aggressively. In most match ups, game one at least, I still feel favored with a good-but-not-amazing four card hand. For example, I beat Junk in a post-board game on a 4 card hand last Friday. Land, land, faithless, dredger with faithless drawing into artifact destruction was enough to do it.
Neonate, troll, fetch, 4 blanks? Ship it, it's a trap and you can do better.
Right, you don't have to announce the first trigger, but if you forget to bring it back during the end step, you have not demonstrated awareness at the appropriate time, so you'll miss the trigger completely. If you do announce the initial trigger, you can't miss the important one.
It's not something even most judges would know, because there are so few cards that create delayed zone change triggers. The only two I know off hand are Obzedat, Ghost Council and Prized Amalgam. Obzedat because I played that standard and it was the card that got that change implemented. Amalgam because I play Dredge a lot. It's something you as a dredge player need to learn and remember, specifically so you can educate judges that don't know.
Edit: Actually, I even had it a little wrong. According to:
“If the triggered ability is a delayed triggered ability that changes the zone of an object, resolve it. For these two types of abilities, the opponent chooses whether to resolve the ability the next time a player would get priority or when a player would get priority at the start of the next phase. These abilities do not expire and should be remedied no matter how much time has passed since they should have triggered.”
You have forever to remember to bring it back. In reality, your opponent would have to confirm that you definitely remembered the initial trigger, and after a couple turns it's reasonable that they just won't remember.
I'm thinking so hard about my Conflagrate plan and sweating on finding it that in my flashbacked Faithless Looting two draw two LfTL I remember the Narcomoeba trigger but skip past my end step, forgetting to return 3 Prized Amalgams... I wanted a hole to crawl into after that missed trigger. It turned the tempo of the game as he topped removal for the Stinky and could start attack with Kalitas without fear of a swingback. 1-1
Ok, so time to enlighten, well, probably a lot of people depending on how many views this post gets.
When you bring back a ghast, narco, haunted dead, whatever: point at your Amalgams and say "trigger". If you do that, you literally can't miss their return trigger for roughly the rest of your opponent's turn. It's really that simple. As long as you acknowledge their trigger to create a delayed trigger, even if you forget to get them back on your end phase, the judge will just have your opponent choose whether they ETB immediately or at the beginning of the next phase.
Source: I am a L2 judge, and regularly read nerdy ***** such as this right here...
My LGS runs a 3 round modern event on Tuesdays, usually getting 18-30 people. On Fridays they run both standard and modern, getting about 35 people for each of them. The past couple weeks they've gotten 43-45 people for both modern and standard FNM.
Pyre-cage Skeleton2B Creature-Skeleton
Exile Pyre-cage Skeleton from your graveyard: add R to your mana pool.
Something to help madness/dredge decks and a solid (but I feel fair) finisher for esper control builds
Noooooope. Nope, nope, nope. As a player who solely plays degenerate decks (currently dredge, previously everything that I could fit goryo's vengeance into), I can't even think of a way to accurately state how fast this would get banned. We're talking another eldrazi winter here, but worse for everyone involved that didn't build whatever combo this ends up being best in.
I can definitely see how this enables degenerate combo's but isn't it just Simian Spirit Guide from your GY instead of your hand? As long as SSG is modern legal I don't see why this is so much worse. It's also harder to access the mana than SSG because you have to play a deck that actively mills/discards itself (like madness and dredge). I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just curious why this would cause havoc when SSG (which is probably the better card in my opinion) currently doesn't.
Ok, so imagine this. Your dredge opponent has ~15 cards left in deck and 16 power on board. It's turn two, they were in the play, and they're passing to your turn two.
Is that a world you really want to live in?
I mean, it's my wet dream, so it would be weird if you showed up tbh.
Pyre-cage Skeleton2B Creature-Skeleton
Exile Pyre-cage Skeleton from your graveyard: add R to your mana pool.
Something to help madness/dredge decks and a solid (but I feel fair) finisher for esper control builds
Noooooope. Nope, nope, nope. As a player who solely plays degenerate decks (currently dredge, previously everything that I could fit goryo's vengeance into), I can't even think of a way to accurately state how fast this would get banned. We're talking another eldrazi winter here, but worse for everyone involved that didn't build whatever combo this ends up being best in.
Yeah, that 1 extra mana is a killer on the horse. A realistic play is to get a Skaab into the GY turn 1 any number of ways, then discard 2 amalgams to bring it back on your opponent's turn. Swinging for 9+ on turn three is pretty ok when it cost you essentially 0 resources other than, maybe, 1-2 life or 1-2 gem counters
As far as horse not dying to bolt goes: who cares if Skaab dies to bolt? It came down a turn earlier than steed, it's a discard outlet again, and you can use it to trigger amalgams all over again.
Also, an update on how my list is doing: I am currently 25-1-5 with the list, with this week's match ups being Jeskai Nahiri x2, Mardu control...midrange...stuff? (not sure how to classify it. Probably control) x2, abzan mid-range, TitanShift, Grixis delver, and shared fate combo.
This is counting both Tuesday night and Friday night. Starting next Tuesday, I'm pretty sure I'll be playing a rally the peasants package for a couple weeks just to try it out.
I wouldn't say I was "frothing at the mouth."
Round 1 vs. Infect: 2-1.
Game 3, he doesn't find a second land until turn 4, and I don't find a kill until turn 6. It was a lot of draw-go, but I eventually found the kill.
Round 2 vs. Abzan: 2-1.
I play Bloodmoon in game 2 and proceed to just get ripped apart by discard spells and die from his basic swamp. In game 3, top decking a Bloodmoon after his IoK locks him down to a basic swamp and basic forest. He has a 2/3 goyf as his only threat, giving me plenty of time to find 5 lands, TTB, and both Worm and Griselbrand. When I find the 5th land I slam TTB to put in Worm (he was at 18 at this point) before picking it back up after realizing I'd be dead to Maelstrom Pulse (which I know he has in deck - incidentally I found out after the game that he also had 2 Engineered Explosives he sided in). Instead I waited until his end step to put Griselbrand in and kill him on the next turn.
Round 3 vs 4 Color Shadow (This is the same person from FoodChainGoblins' round 2): Draw.
Friend of mine. I feel like I have a bad match up, he feels like I get lucky a lot. We decide to draw.
Round 4 vs Elves: 2-1.
Game 1 he does Elf things and I can't find the kill fast enough. Game 2 he goes to 4 cards and still would have killed me on turn 4 if he'd gotten to it. Game 3 he Thoughtseizes me to see TTB, 2x Anger of the Gods, Lightning Axe, 2x Night's Whisper, and 2 lands. I take the game on turn 4 after finding another TTB, a Wurm, using the Lightning Axe, and killing 3 creatures with Anger.
Ended 3-0-1.
I have 1 Noxious Revival in the main deck, which has been performing very well for me both as another green card for Shoal and to flip things back on top of my deck during the combo turn.
I've been very unimpressed with Cathartic Reunion in this deck. Next week I'm going to try subbing in Tormenting Voice instead.
Spoiler: I'm going to Dublin.
https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/5hut9w/modern_winning_my_pt_airfare_with_dredge/
With the introduction of cathartic reunion, I am relearning how to side board. Those slots used to be filled with cards that were so mediocre it didn't feel bad at all to just cut them for games 2 and 3.
I will keep notes on what I took in and out next week to give examples of how I board. At FNM this week, there were 2 or 3 extremely grindy games that ended with me winning at 0 cards in deck after boarding up to 61-62. I ended up playing the only other two people on dredge in rounds 1 and 2. I won, but both matches stalled out to time, with me winning in turns on 0 cards in deck.
Round 3 was Jund with a complete sweep. I whiffed on a reunion (loam as dredger, hits salvage, hits nothing) but the next card I drew was the one lightning axe in the main for the Scooze he played on 2. He never plays another relevant card game 1. Game two, he flips Anger with Bob on turn three, then plays an overgrown tomb (making his lands tomb/tomb/ravine). He never sees another red source and shows me the double anger in his hand after game.
Round 4 was Mardu 'Greatness at any cost'. Game one wasn't that interesting. I win. Game two though, I played the game so wrong. I thought he was going the control route, but he went the souls-beats-burn route instead. I tried playing around anger of the gods and rest in peace by splitting up my resources. I kept some in grave and some on field and didn't conflag souls tokens when I should have. He ended up beating me down and having multiple bolts and helix to finish me off. Game three, I was reminded of something I had never thought of: Nahiri can get artifacts. This was relevant because I had 4 amalgams and a ghast on field and all but 5 cards of my deck in my grave. I was also over 40 life from gnaw to the bone (brought in after game 2). He ults Nahiri, I go to sac some lands and a Bloodghast. He instead gets a nihil spellbomb, K-returns my Bloodghast away (putting 3 in the grave - this number is important) and spellbombs me, leaving me with 4 amalgams, 5 cards in deck, and no hand. I untap, draw my 4th ghast, and hit down to 2 with the amalgams. He untaps, plays a Bob as a blocker, has a shambling vents ready to activate, and has a bolt in hand. This would leave him at 1 life and he could untap with a full grip. I play the ghast with haste to attack him down to -1. So yeah, Nahiri can get artifacts. Who knew?
I drew round 5 against infect for first and second place.
You bring up a good point on mulligan decisions with this deck. The dredge mechanic allows you to mulligan extremely aggressively. In most match ups, game one at least, I still feel favored with a good-but-not-amazing four card hand. For example, I beat Junk in a post-board game on a 4 card hand last Friday. Land, land, faithless, dredger with faithless drawing into artifact destruction was enough to do it.
Neonate, troll, fetch, 4 blanks? Ship it, it's a trap and you can do better.
Edit: Actually, I even had it a little wrong. According to:
“If the triggered ability is a delayed triggered ability that changes the zone of an object, resolve it. For these two types of abilities, the opponent chooses whether to resolve the ability the next time a player would get priority or when a player would get priority at the start of the next phase. These abilities do not expire and should be remedied no matter how much time has passed since they should have triggered.”
You have forever to remember to bring it back. In reality, your opponent would have to confirm that you definitely remembered the initial trigger, and after a couple turns it's reasonable that they just won't remember.
Ok, so time to enlighten, well, probably a lot of people depending on how many views this post gets.
When you bring back a ghast, narco, haunted dead, whatever: point at your Amalgams and say "trigger". If you do that, you literally can't miss their return trigger for roughly the rest of your opponent's turn. It's really that simple. As long as you acknowledge their trigger to create a delayed trigger, even if you forget to get them back on your end phase, the judge will just have your opponent choose whether they ETB immediately or at the beginning of the next phase.
Source: I am a L2 judge, and regularly read nerdy ***** such as this right here...
http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2013/02/tournament-tuesday-zone-change-triggers/
4x Troll
4x Imp
4x Amalgam
4x Narcomoeba
4x Neonate
4x Ghast
2x Street Wraith
1x Haunted Dead
4x Faithless
3x Conflagrate
2x Loam
2x Collective Brutality
1x Lightning Axe
1x Darkblast
2x Stomping Grounds
2x Blood Crypt
1x Steam Vents
2x Mountain
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Copperline Gorge
2x Dakmor Salvage
1x Mana Confluence
Side:
3x Nature's Claim
2 each: Abrupt Decay, memory's journey, ancient grudge, gnaw to the bone
1 each: Golgari Charm, Ray of Revelation, Lightning Axe, Darkblast
Here is my tournament report if anyone wants to read it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/513bzi/tournament_reportmodern_1st_pptq_with_dredge/
Ok, so imagine this. Your dredge opponent has ~15 cards left in deck and 16 power on board. It's turn two, they were in the play, and they're passing to your turn two.
Is that a world you really want to live in?
I mean, it's my wet dream, so it would be weird if you showed up tbh.
Noooooope. Nope, nope, nope. As a player who solely plays degenerate decks (currently dredge, previously everything that I could fit goryo's vengeance into), I can't even think of a way to accurately state how fast this would get banned. We're talking another eldrazi winter here, but worse for everyone involved that didn't build whatever combo this ends up being best in.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/4prw7x/whos_2515_and_loves_playing_dredge_this_guy_401/
As far as horse not dying to bolt goes: who cares if Skaab dies to bolt? It came down a turn earlier than steed, it's a discard outlet again, and you can use it to trigger amalgams all over again.
Also, an update on how my list is doing: I am currently 25-1-5 with the list, with this week's match ups being Jeskai Nahiri x2, Mardu control...midrange...stuff? (not sure how to classify it. Probably control) x2, abzan mid-range, TitanShift, Grixis delver, and shared fate combo.
This is counting both Tuesday night and Friday night. Starting next Tuesday, I'm pretty sure I'll be playing a rally the peasants package for a couple weeks just to try it out.