As someone who stopped playing MTG around the time Alara rotated out of Standard due to personal reasons and, thus, don't really have much confrontations with the deck in question, I'm fairly neutral towards the notion of banning Jace and Stoneforge, although I too think it's a tad too late, when the cards are about to rotate out of Standard anyway.
Does banning Jace and Stoneforge fix the format? Maybe. The ban will cripple Caw Blade, no doubt, and other decks might dethrone it as the dominant deck in Standard. Valakut seems to be what everyone's excited/worried about.
It (Caw Blade) was less clear this time, so we were willing to see if players were in fact tolerant of a skill-rewarding one-deck metagame. The ultimate goal is player enjoyment, and if most people were enjoying themselves, we weren't going to take any rash actions based solely on the math of deck lists.
This portion of the article stood out to me. You can argue, cry and whine all you want about Mythics and/or Wizard being in it for the money, but the reality is that everything goes back to player enjoyment. If no one enjoys playing MTG, Wizard makes no money, so please stop with the drama-queen nonsense about Wizard being some giant vortex that devours money. To make money, they have to keep the player base happy.
How to keep the players happy is a more subjective matter. Certainly, I can imagine people enjoying a format where victory is awarded to the player with more skill and insight. After all, the games which both players can give a genuine "GG." at the end, regardless of victory or defeat, are often the close ones where both decks perform equally well and fight tooth and nail for the win. I can also see why people would like to see a diverse meta, just to take a break from the same deck.
In this case, the dominant deck is skill-intensive, but very much seals the deal in a game if the player is skilled. However, the player base wanted a diverse meta. Wizards responded with the ban of Jace and Stoneforge. I doubt anyone can guarantee that the meta after this will be more diverse until the results of events start rolling in, but the fact that Wizard has made a response to attempt to provide the players with what they want should (And has been.) appreciated.
As for the outcry from those who have invested in Jace about the drop in value of their cards, take a good, hard look at Yu Gi Oh. More often than not, Konami just dumps a pile of cards which they deem broken onto the ban list for the next format, sometimes very rashly. You made the investment in those cards and Wizard has no obligation to ensure that those cards remain at that value. Just be glad they didn't blindly go: "Right, no moar Caw Blade. Ban Jace, Stoneforge, Hawk, Batterskull and the Swords.".
Bojuka Bog and Nihil Spellbomb is GG, as are Haunting Echoes and Leyline of the Void. Granted, all these are black cards and the latter two probably won't be played too often, but it's more than enough to ruin your efforts IMO. Memoricide naming Ooze also stops the deck in its tracks.
It's a cool idea though, and I hope you can come up with some way to overcome these obstacles.
10/1/2009 If a spell is exiled, it's removed from the stack and thus will not resolve. The spell isn't countered; it just no longer exists. This works on spells that can't be countered, such as Terra Stomper.
If a creature with an ETB effect (Say, a Titan.) is targeted by Mindbreak, does that mean that its ETB effect won't trigger since the spell will not resolve, despite Mindbreak not strictly countering the spell?
Well, currently I'm running two Negates and two Stoic Rebuttles because I've found myself against infect decks and other aggro decks where my Negates weren't coming in handy because it couldn't target the creatures. I guess it'll just take tinkering with?
You do have four Wrath cards in DOJ and Ratchet and, from memory, people were doing fine handling aggro using four DOJ's. Not to mention the fact that you have Leak. Liberal use of these cards should be good enough to fend off aggro IMO.
Actually, maybe you should cut the DOJ's and just run four copies of Ratchet? You do run a fair number of creatures, so the selective destruction of Ratchet may sometimes be more beneficial than DOJ's indiscriminate destruction. Plus, more Artifacts means greater chance for Rebuttal to have access to Metalcraft.
Stoic Rebuttle because it's the same thing as a Cancel, slim chance says it could work as Metal Craft if you had 3/5 artifacts on the field, and it could make your opponent sidedeck artifact destruction if they think it's artifact based due to the spell being that and not Cancel.
The bluffing thing would be worthwhile to implement if you were considering running Rebuttal over Cancel. Negate is one mana cheaper, easier on the mana base and probably improved tenfold in efficiency due to the number of Artifacts that Scars has given us.
Unless the bluffing factor surpasses all these factors, (Or unless you put Metalcraft to good use, which is not the case here.) I don't think Rebuttal will be as good as Negate.
Alpha Tyrranax is incorrectly spelled as Alpha Tyrannax.
Glimmerpoint Stag is incorrectly spelled as Glimmerpost Stag. (This also comes up in its effect text, so while it's just a minor thing, it might be worth changing too.)
Grasp of Darkness is incorrectly spelled as Grip of Darkness.
Seize the Initiative is incorrectly spelled as Seize the Initative. (Note the lack of an 'i'.)
Pic-related errors:
Ghalma's Warden's pic doesn't show up unless you change its name to include the space.
@Bob: Not meaning to nitpick, but do you mind changing the name of the pictures so that the file name has upper and lower-case letters and spaces matching the card name? It's probably more consistent that way. (As demonstrated by Ghalma's Warden.)
Pro Tour results from Kanazawa, Japan here. A Neo Wildfire deck (Under the equally smexy name of Titan Force.) finished at eighth place in the tourny. Decklist below.
There are striking similarities between this list and the URG list I found on Magic League a few pages back. Link here.
Frost Titan's apparently a house here, given a 2-2 split with Primeval. I think this confirms my suspicion that all the ramp elements leave few options for Primeval by the time it hits the field.
One thing I don't get is that both lists run Khalni Garden. What exactly is the point of this? To hold off aggro?
If you're gonna run Rampaging Baloths, I think a 2-2 split between it and Primeval Titan is the way to go. It'll ensure you having a means of triggering (Two.) Landfalls per turn.
Personally, I'm thinking of dropping the number of Primeval Titans down to two in favour of other Titans like Inferno and Frost for URG. As good as he is, amongst all the ramp elements, I often find myself with only fetches left in the deck by the time I drop Primeval.
I'm curious myself as to the inclusion of Khalni Garden. I imagine Awakening Zone is there for both chump-blocking and ramping. The Gardens seem to serve strictly to chump-block, and IDK if that's worth it being a CIPT land.
Also, is anyone with me in thinking that the blue Titan can actually be of some use here? Not only does he have quasi-shroud to make removing him a complete nightmare, he can tap lands after a Destructive Force to further cripple the opp's attempt to recover.
While DF is a nice card to pave the path to victory, I think the deck should be able to survive/win on its own without DF, hence the lack of ramp.
Since I'm running Naya colours, KOTQ is an auto-include for awesome synergy with DF while being a decent standalone card. Primeval and Sun Titan also survive DF.
To stand up to fast decks, I figured it'll be easier just to spew out creatures to match them. I threw in an Ally package to handle early games. Sun Titan can revive them post-DF, and I'm relatively sure the Ally triggers go off too.
Does banning Jace and Stoneforge fix the format? Maybe. The ban will cripple Caw Blade, no doubt, and other decks might dethrone it as the dominant deck in Standard. Valakut seems to be what everyone's excited/worried about.
This portion of the article stood out to me. You can argue, cry and whine all you want about Mythics and/or Wizard being in it for the money, but the reality is that everything goes back to player enjoyment. If no one enjoys playing MTG, Wizard makes no money, so please stop with the drama-queen nonsense about Wizard being some giant vortex that devours money. To make money, they have to keep the player base happy.
How to keep the players happy is a more subjective matter. Certainly, I can imagine people enjoying a format where victory is awarded to the player with more skill and insight. After all, the games which both players can give a genuine "GG." at the end, regardless of victory or defeat, are often the close ones where both decks perform equally well and fight tooth and nail for the win. I can also see why people would like to see a diverse meta, just to take a break from the same deck.
In this case, the dominant deck is skill-intensive, but very much seals the deal in a game if the player is skilled. However, the player base wanted a diverse meta. Wizards responded with the ban of Jace and Stoneforge. I doubt anyone can guarantee that the meta after this will be more diverse until the results of events start rolling in, but the fact that Wizard has made a response to attempt to provide the players with what they want should (And has been.) appreciated.
As for the outcry from those who have invested in Jace about the drop in value of their cards, take a good, hard look at Yu Gi Oh. More often than not, Konami just dumps a pile of cards which they deem broken onto the ban list for the next format, sometimes very rashly. You made the investment in those cards and Wizard has no obligation to ensure that those cards remain at that value. Just be glad they didn't blindly go: "Right, no moar Caw Blade. Ban Jace, Stoneforge, Hawk, Batterskull and the Swords.".
If my opponent and I each control a Vat and a creature is sent to the grave, which Vat gets Imprinted?
It's a cool idea though, and I hope you can come up with some way to overcome these obstacles.
If a creature with an ETB effect (Say, a Titan.) is targeted by Mindbreak, does that mean that its ETB effect won't trigger since the spell will not resolve, despite Mindbreak not strictly countering the spell?
Thanks in advance.
You do have four Wrath cards in DOJ and Ratchet and, from memory, people were doing fine handling aggro using four DOJ's. Not to mention the fact that you have Leak. Liberal use of these cards should be good enough to fend off aggro IMO.
Actually, maybe you should cut the DOJ's and just run four copies of Ratchet? You do run a fair number of creatures, so the selective destruction of Ratchet may sometimes be more beneficial than DOJ's indiscriminate destruction. Plus, more Artifacts means greater chance for Rebuttal to have access to Metalcraft.
The bluffing thing would be worthwhile to implement if you were considering running Rebuttal over Cancel. Negate is one mana cheaper, easier on the mana base and probably improved tenfold in efficiency due to the number of Artifacts that Scars has given us.
Unless the bluffing factor surpasses all these factors, (Or unless you put Metalcraft to good use, which is not the case here.) I don't think Rebuttal will be as good as Negate.
7 Island
6 Plains
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Tectonic Edge
Creatures: 7
4 Mnemonic Wall
3 Wall of Omens
Other Spells: 29
4 Into the Roil
4 Mana Leak
4 Negate
4 Silence
3 Day of Judgment
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Venser, the Sojourner
2 Gideon Jura
2 Jace's Ingenuity
4 Flashfreeze
4 Ratchet Bomb
3 Baneslayer Angel
3 Revoke Existence
1 Day of Judgment
Not so for me. Might be something from your end.
Pic-related errors:
@Bob: Not meaning to nitpick, but do you mind changing the name of the pictures so that the file name has upper and lower-case letters and spaces matching the card name? It's probably more consistent that way. (As demonstrated by Ghalma's Warden.)
Thanks for the work, guys. ^.^
4 Forest
4 Island
3 Mountain
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Raging Ravine
2 Halimar Depths
2 Khalni Garden
2 Scalding Tarn
Creatures: 4
2 Frost Titan
2 Primeval Titan
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Instants: 10
2 Into the Roil
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
Sorceries: 14
3 Cultivate
3 Destructive Force
3 Explore
2 Mind Spring
3 Rampant Growth
4 Negate
3 Obstinate Baloth
2 Mind Control
2 Earthquake
2 Pelakka Wurm
1 Destructive Force
1 Mold Shambler
There are striking similarities between this list and the URG list I found on Magic League a few pages back. Link here.
Frost Titan's apparently a house here, given a 2-2 split with Primeval. I think this confirms my suspicion that all the ramp elements leave few options for Primeval by the time it hits the field.
One thing I don't get is that both lists run Khalni Garden. What exactly is the point of this? To hold off aggro?
Personally, I'm thinking of dropping the number of Primeval Titans down to two in favour of other Titans like Inferno and Frost for URG. As good as he is, amongst all the ramp elements, I often find myself with only fetches left in the deck by the time I drop Primeval.
4 Forest
3 Island
2 Mountain
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Raging Ravine
3 Halimar Depths
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Khalni Garden
Creatures: 4
4 Primeval Titan
Other Spells: 31
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Mana Leak
3 Destructive Force
3 Explore
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Rampant Growth
2 Awakening Zone
2 Cultivate
2 Into the Roil
2 Mind Spring
4 Negate
4 Obstinate Baloth
4 Overgrown Battlement
2 Pelakka Wurm
1 Destructive Force
I'm curious myself as to the inclusion of Khalni Garden. I imagine Awakening Zone is there for both chump-blocking and ramping. The Gardens seem to serve strictly to chump-block, and IDK if that's worth it being a CIPT land.
Also, is anyone with me in thinking that the blue Titan can actually be of some use here? Not only does he have quasi-shroud to make removing him a complete nightmare, he can tap lands after a Destructive Force to further cripple the opp's attempt to recover.
5 Plains
4 Forest
3 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
3 Jungle Shrine
3 Sunpetal Grove
2 Raging Ravine
Creatures: 27
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Kabira Evangel
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Knight of the New Reliquary
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sun Titan
3 Dauntless Escort
4 Destructive Force
3 Condemn
2 Naya Charm
3 Celestial Purge
3 Combustion
3 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Naturalise
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Pithing Needle
While DF is a nice card to pave the path to victory, I think the deck should be able to survive/win on its own without DF, hence the lack of ramp.
Since I'm running Naya colours, KOTQ is an auto-include for awesome synergy with DF while being a decent standalone card. Primeval and Sun Titan also survive DF.
To stand up to fast decks, I figured it'll be easier just to spew out creatures to match them. I threw in an Ally package to handle early games. Sun Titan can revive them post-DF, and I'm relatively sure the Ally triggers go off too.