Pretty good. I mean, I've always drawn her one turn too late so far, but everytime (but one, to be honest, but nothing else would have saved me) she would have won me the game single-handedly had she been in my hand one turn earlier.
When do you bring her in? Do you play her only when you can monstrous wipe the turn after? I got one recently in a pack and am interested in using her
Took 1st last night. I just don't see anything in Dragon's Maze worth adding to Jund aggro. My question for you guys though. When you add Varolz, and lotleth troll to Jund aggro is it still aggro? I get that you're calling Varolz a win condition but I'll take a Thundermaw hellkite over him any day. A 2/2 for 3 with no haste that doesn't activate until you start losing. Just what I'm seeing on paper.
Couple of things. What did you like about viper? And 3 of them?
Also, what about Strangleroot? I used to run him but got mad when I had him in hand with a BTE and played a dumb bear. Ive been playing mogg flunkies over geist and love it
Quick question about this deck, arguing with my friends.
You can reanimate Emrakul with Vengeance because you cast it in response to the trigger of him being shuffled into your deck, correct? Therefore he just comes into play and your deck isn't shuffled/etc.
A question that has been bothering me many games, sometimes I answer it correctly sometimes I don't.
What exactly do we name with cavern? Do we name the best thing in our hand? Do we name beast so our Thrags dont get countered? Do we name hoof so we can inevitably cast him and win? What happens if we draw it super late game, do we always say angel then?
One game against control I named Zombie on cavern and won with 2 Lotleth Troll, he just couldn't deal with them outside of countering them. Is that what we want to do? Or did I just make a weird play he didn't expect?
So Lotleth Troll is in many lists that do well, and also absent in lists that do well. I personally like him, but I would also like to learn some better ways to use him AND if he is really 'all that and a bag of chips' in the junk reanimator lists.
do we pitch creatures asap when needed? (obviously not stupidly, we do it in response to spears or blocking/attacking). Do we only pitch when we can reanimate that turn and let him die if we can't regen?
So is Devour Flesh a staple now? I haven't tested much with it, but how good is it against naya when they have a pilgram turn 1, and a smiter turn 2? What do you guys think?
I also like the idea of splashing white. Did you consider Obzedat, Ghost Council and Blind Obedience. Those cards look great in a build like this, escaping Mutilate and constantly draining life. Mutilate should be even better after Gatecrash, with all the indestructibility going around.
I REALLY like the B/W splash. But we have to get rid of dreadbore, which is REALLY hard, and Rakdos keyrune, which is pretty much our deck. So, why not go B/w/r? Major on the black, with splashes of white for souls and ghost dad and red for keyrune, rakdos return, and dreadbore?
Well yeah you're probably right.
Since we don't know most GTC cards that discussion is quite worthless for now.
Ofc we want to build deck with at least 18-20 swamps but the truth is black alone lacks few responses. For now red seems the best friend mostly because of strong keyrune, that helps stall the board, and X burns. But lets see what Orzhov or Dimir brings- can one of these colours replace red?
For me extort looks like strong mechanics when you have good CA engine (can mitigate life loss from opponent and own SiB,UC, BGD), and if there will be particulary strong BW card which can replace red then why not take o-rings, lifegain and board sweepers from white instead?
It all depends on the keyrune, at least for me. If it is something lame like lifelink, we can't afford to even think about white. The rakdos keyrune allows us to stop thragtusk, and still deal some good damage. The 3/1 with first strike is phenomenal, we need something like that
Have you been thinking about other creatures?
Might seem crazy but since we're discussing: can shades or Dark Impostor be any good in this kind of deck as a late game mana sink? Evernight Shade can survive Mutilate and hit hard after
and Dark Impostor is free hard removal while being so cheap you wouldn't mind him eating removal.
Dark Imposter is sadly a waste of a card slot at this point. If we need a mana sink we can use Devils Play or something similar. He has possibilities, but in this meta he is too slow.
Evernight Shade however could be used. The fact that it has undying basically is the only reason it can be playable, otherwise it just eats removal. You just have to realise though, would you rather block a thragtusk and use all of your mana to pump him to survival, or play knighthawk/demonic rising/any other current powerhouse for this deck
I have a similar list, but instead of hellkites i have Desecration Demon.What are you thoughts on him? I am never unhappy to see him, and he is a major factor to me winning any game I have won
I agree with most things in your list, save demonic rising and Hellkite. How have those been going? I actually tested hellkite for a bit, and had mixed results
I completely disagree here. Tapping out for her is something entirely non-problematic unless you are just throwing her at an opponent who has complete board control with a few unanswered creatures, which, against our decklists, is not only unlikely but extremely unfortunate.
I agree with you that Dark Lili isn't perfect in some decklists. In mine, she is way better than LotV. Firstly, because she doesn't compete with my essential 3 mana drops. Keyrunes and Nighthawks almost always have priority on turn 3 for me. Either to stabilize with a Nighthawk or ramp with keyrune. This is, of course, ideally followed up from turn 1 and/or 2 removal spells. Secondly, she doesn't make me discard my own cards. I don't know about you, but usually I don't want to discard my own lands because I generally want to cast my 5-6 mana drops. Also, I'd rather have card advantage with Dark Lili early in the game (or the option to spot removal a creature) than to hope that what I discard with LotV is less harmful than what my opponent is discarding. That's a gamble I would make when I tested her and I was usually very unimpressed with the results. Thirdly, the only 4-mana drop I run is Mutilate. Dark Lili fits my curve better, being an additional 4-mana drop. Sometimes she even helps me get to my fifth land drop when I otherwise haven't found one. Getting to 5 mana is crucial for my own build.
I agree that each Lili is good, and it's even ok to run neither. What Szogun said about them being suited for certain MBC strategies is absolutely certain. After 3 months of playtesting, I've settled on Dark Lili being much more impacting than LotV, and this will probably become more true once Gatecrash comes out and I plan on splashing a third color.
You make very valid points for each end of the arguement, but in the end we have entirely different deck lists I feel as if each is good in a different build, and both seems to not be the best idea. If I end up switching up my list, I may throw her in there. Mind posting your list? I would like to compare with mine
When do you bring her in? Do you play her only when you can monstrous wipe the turn after? I got one recently in a pack and am interested in using her
Couple of things. What did you like about viper? And 3 of them?
Also, what about Strangleroot? I used to run him but got mad when I had him in hand with a BTE and played a dumb bear. Ive been playing mogg flunkies over geist and love it
You can reanimate Emrakul with Vengeance because you cast it in response to the trigger of him being shuffled into your deck, correct? Therefore he just comes into play and your deck isn't shuffled/etc.
What exactly do we name with cavern? Do we name the best thing in our hand? Do we name beast so our Thrags dont get countered? Do we name hoof so we can inevitably cast him and win? What happens if we draw it super late game, do we always say angel then?
One game against control I named Zombie on cavern and won with 2 Lotleth Troll, he just couldn't deal with them outside of countering them. Is that what we want to do? Or did I just make a weird play he didn't expect?
do we pitch creatures asap when needed? (obviously not stupidly, we do it in response to spears or blocking/attacking). Do we only pitch when we can reanimate that turn and let him die if we can't regen?
This guy definitely needs some discussion
I REALLY like the B/W splash. But we have to get rid of dreadbore, which is REALLY hard, and Rakdos keyrune, which is pretty much our deck. So, why not go B/w/r? Major on the black, with splashes of white for souls and ghost dad and red for keyrune, rakdos return, and dreadbore?
It all depends on the keyrune, at least for me. If it is something lame like lifelink, we can't afford to even think about white. The rakdos keyrune allows us to stop thragtusk, and still deal some good damage. The 3/1 with first strike is phenomenal, we need something like that
Dark Imposter is sadly a waste of a card slot at this point. If we need a mana sink we can use Devils Play or something similar. He has possibilities, but in this meta he is too slow.
Evernight Shade however could be used. The fact that it has undying basically is the only reason it can be playable, otherwise it just eats removal. You just have to realise though, would you rather block a thragtusk and use all of your mana to pump him to survival, or play knighthawk/demonic rising/any other current powerhouse for this deck
You make very valid points for each end of the arguement, but in the end we have entirely different deck lists