I think it is a fine choice of commander for mono red. I think a lot of what you're aiming at with your list would be feasible, if only this format (when played to its most cutthroat potential) wasn't more like Legacy than EDH. Extraplanar Lens is a good example of a card that seems so good because hey, it's miniature EDH! But really, this format is more like "Legacy without Jace". So in light of this, here are a few suggestions:
Blood Moon: A SB card. You don't have the acceleration and consistency of Dragon Stompy, and most decks can't run that many duals, but many fetches, which means everybody can fetch basics. Consider for the SB.
Faithless Looting: Card disadvantage in a control deck is bad. Also most of your spells do the same thing, so digging is not that important. Suggested cut, perhaps consider Burning Wish instead.
I'm working on a Chandra list myself, but it is more a RDW approach (more creature heavy) where almost every card is a threat, however all the burn is also removal and it has a few nice hate bears for additional disruption. Let me know if you want to see the list in progress
Would also like to see this list. I'm working on Zurgo Bellstriker but would consider switching to Chandra, Kaladesh and would love more decklists to study.
I think Eidolon is better then Swiftspear in the main here, especially if you try adding Tarmogoyf or using 16 creatures. Atarka's Command is also likely better in the maindeck then Skullcrack if you add the green creatures.
I have noticed we don't really need the 3 Sacred Foundry or the 2 Stomping Ground. So long as you have 12+ fetchlands you'll always have the mana you need. I've also noticed the matches where you would need Rain of Gore are not usually the same matches where you will need Destructive Revelry.
Adrian Sullivan posted a great read about aggressive red deck strategy and theory, and how you want to value cards relative to the overall attacking strategy your deck has. Much of it is know info, but it's a great read anyway.
I think it might be worth trying Rain of Gore again, with or without Bump in the Night. The majority of lifegain now is effect based (Kitchen Finks, Kor Firewalker, Lightning Helix, Siege Rhino, Scavenging Ooze, Timely Reinforcements, Feed the Clan), and while Skullcrack/Atarka's Command are better against one-shot cards, they're not very effective against anything gaining life repeatedly, which is problematic when Jund/Junk are popular decks. I think it might be worth it to try a couple of copies and try 6 anti-lifegain spells, while SB-ing 2 Rain of Gore.
For fun, SB'ing examples (though haphazard) and maybe inspiration to try out MODO because if I can go inf. (heck even make money) even with all my mistakes - you can as well!.
I apologize if you answered this in the videos, but why no copies of Eidolon of the Great Revel?
Also, did 4 Shard Volley ever feel excessive? I'd feed comfortable with two copies, but I'd be afraid of it clogging my hand at that point.
So this might be a bad idea, but has anyone tested Wild Nacatl in a naya build? More attackers seems good with Atarka's Command, and a repeatable, non-targeted, non-red source of damage is good against a lot of the hate we see. Falls prey to bad topdeckability and efficient removal of course, but it puts some tension on your opponent's sideboarding choices. Might be better than lavamancer. Thoughts?
I think it's a fair rival to Swiftspear here, if you run 2x Sacred Foundry and 2x Stomping Ground (plus at least 2 Atarka's Command main). I've been trying 4 Command and 4 Skullcrack main and I like it, but I also prefer Nacatl not requiring spells to attack for 3.
It's going to hurt in the mirror though, so you might want Helix mained.
I'm solo testing my r/b list with 24 bolts and get more turn 3-4 kills. I don't even anticipate that my opponent is using fetches or shocks. Just counting from 0-20 with my attacks and bolts. Def quicker now. Thinking about r/b list with 2 foundry/maybe s. Grounds and sb hate for leyline.
24 being Lightning Bolt, Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, Bump in the Night, Shard Volley, and Collateral Damage?
There's a supply crunch on this set, similar to Innistrad. Prices keep jumping because we haven't hit the second/third product wave to meet demand.
What there isn't, though, is another wave of M15, which I think is contributing to this. I've heard that V4 being out out the same time curtailed drafting and redeeming, so there's less of it from online sources, plus less drafted in paper because KTK was released earlier.
I think that's why even uncommons like Stoke are up to $4 while in-print, and same with Rabblemaster - both are generically good cards, on already stressed supply, same with Painlands.
Was instructed by the mods to come here for specific card recommendations for this deck.
In short, am thinking of playing this deck again now that it seems to be a lot better, partly due to some new cards. Recently sold my Chain Lightnings due to monetary issues. Also, don't own several of the cards that I am seeing in decklists such as Sulfuric Vortex.
So here's my question. What cards are absolutely must haves in order to run this deck and which ones can be substituted for?
Thanks for the assistance.
Cards you'll need:
4x goblin guide
4x eidolon of the great revel
2x grim lavamancer
4x lightning bolt
4x chain lightning
4x lava spike
4x rift bolt
4x fireblast
4x price of progress
Optional, but worth it:
4x searing blaze
4x flame rift
+ 2x grim lavamancer
8-12 red fetchlands (I'd recommend at least 8 with 2x Grim. The reprint in Khans makes this much cheaper)
SB
2-3 Sulfuric Vortex
Sadly, most of the optimal burn cards aren't really replaceable. Vexing Devil is ok, but I think Grim is generally better.
Noob question. Why 3 Grim Lavamancers instead of 4?
You never want 2 in your hand or on the field at the same time at any time in the game. If that's what you think of a card, you add only 3 of it.
But conversely, you're not guaranteed to draw one. And if you do, it is still susceptible to discard, counter, removal, etc.
I agree much more with this, plus it's also a great 1-drop. If you want to play them, 4 is correct if you run 10-12 fetchlands. Drawing 2 just means the first one immediately gets destroyed, which is not that big of a deal. Run 2-3 with 8 or less fetches.
Hey guys, I'm currently playing RWB Burn and had a question. Is there another variant of the deck that has a little more depth/reach? I'm finding myself getting dragged into the midgame in my meta and being in top deck mode with no cards in hand is getting old. Also, while the deck is fun to play it does get a bit boring! The only thing I can think of is adding some Grim Lavamancers to give me a little reach.
With the ONS fetches, add more Grim Lavamancers, and play more fetches. Searing effects and Flames of the Blood Hand are good for reach, but you really don't want that many 3-CMC spells, and Grim makes playing them harder.
Because
(1) It is a 3cmc spell.
(2) isn't fantastic in multiples
(3) is a 3cmc spell.
(4) is a 3cmc spell.
This. Also, Vortex is good SB card, but is not as good in the maindeck as it use to be due to Abrupt Decay, the increased number of creatures in decks, and Ediolon being good enough to warrant maindeck play. It's also only really amazing versus Miracles, and is good versus Blade if the board is kind of clear.
I agree on this being a deck where "don't fix it if it's not broken" applies, with a little room for flex slots. The SB is where you can experiment a bit more.
What are your guys thoughts on 2x Dragon's Claw in the SB? I know it's a good card, but I don't know if it's worth the SB space. I don't play online, and mostly play in blind metas. How popular do you think Burn (all variants) really is to warrant it?
Current SB:
4x Searing Blood (any creature deck, 4x Searing Blaze main)
4x Molten Rain (UWR decks, possibly BG if on the draw, needs testing)
3x Smash to Smithereens (Affinity)
2x Torpor Orb (Twin, Pod, UWR Kikki Twin, any UW Flash or Finks decks) (I've found these to really be worth it even though they aren't Burn)
2x Flex slot (between Relic of Progenitus, Guerilla Tactics, Cryoclasm, Ensnaring Bridge, Dragon's Claw)
Q. What does my deck want to do?
A. Play 7 spells for 3 damage each over 3-4 turns
Q. How many land do I want to play in 1 game?
A. 3 land
Q. I don't want to draw any land after I have 3
A. So I want to be able to draw 2 land in my opening hand. 1 land in the next 3 cards. (Being at 19-20 land and then fetching your needed lands gives the deck the most probability to only draw 3 land in 10 cards).
If you need a color you can fetch it. If you don't need black or white just go get a mountain to avoid taking unnecessary damage.
Here is the deck that I will run now
While I agree with the logic behind the amount of land you want, I would highly recommend against running more than 12 fetches for filtering. At that point you border on drawing dead fetches pretty often and start taking about 3-4 damage per game, not counting untapped shock lands. This is from experience in Legacy, where running 4 Grim and 4 Searing Blaze is much more common.
I'd suggest 12 red fetches, 20 total land (it's the same as 19 with 12 fetches) and maxing out on Grim and Searing Blaze.
I'd highly recommend never playing any non-red land in this deck. We don't care about Blood Moon and IMO can't risk playing around it.
Where is everyone getting these prices... Zen fetches were always around 20 bucks. Arid mesa was the most expensive one... as Boros was the best deck for a while... And yes, it used a lot of land fall...
Really, the only time they dropped to 7 was before the legacy boom, at roation, before modern was a thing, and they very very quickly went up to 12. Then 15, than 20. Like within a year.
Regardless, this is the SPoiler thread people. Not price. I think we ought to get back on topic. Even me. Move the fetches price to price threads.
Fetches were around 10-12 each throughout there T2 tenure, with the exception of release as everyone scrambled to get copies for non T2 formats. I remember buying Arid Mesas for 10 each from TNT and trading for Marsh Flats at 8 around the release of ROE. The ZEN fetches didn't break 10-12 until about a year or more after rotation.
Would also like to see this list. I'm working on Zurgo Bellstriker but would consider switching to Chandra, Kaladesh and would love more decklists to study.
Tarmogoyf was just theory crafting, but Nacatl x4 was in both decks.
As for results, Pascal didn't play the deck, and I'm not sure Josh made Day 2
Josh Utter-Leyton also ran 4x Wild Nacatl in his Burn deck at GP Charlotte:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpcha15/modern-history-2015-06-13
I think Eidolon is better then Swiftspear in the main here, especially if you try adding Tarmogoyf or using 16 creatures. Atarka's Command is also likely better in the maindeck then Skullcrack if you add the green creatures.
Where in the SB would the Rain of Gore be? I don't think we really need the 3rd Path/Rakdos Charm, or 3rd sweeper IMO.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30926_The-Burnsey-Scale.html
Adrian Sullivan posted a great read about aggressive red deck strategy and theory, and how you want to value cards relative to the overall attacking strategy your deck has. Much of it is know info, but it's a great read anyway.
I think it might be worth trying Rain of Gore again, with or without Bump in the Night. The majority of lifegain now is effect based (Kitchen Finks, Kor Firewalker, Lightning Helix, Siege Rhino, Scavenging Ooze, Timely Reinforcements, Feed the Clan), and while Skullcrack/Atarka's Command are better against one-shot cards, they're not very effective against anything gaining life repeatedly, which is problematic when Jund/Junk are popular decks. I think it might be worth it to try a couple of copies and try 6 anti-lifegain spells, while SB-ing 2 Rain of Gore.
I apologize if you answered this in the videos, but why no copies of Eidolon of the Great Revel?
Also, did 4 Shard Volley ever feel excessive? I'd feed comfortable with two copies, but I'd be afraid of it clogging my hand at that point.
I think it's a fair rival to Swiftspear here, if you run 2x Sacred Foundry and 2x Stomping Ground (plus at least 2 Atarka's Command main). I've been trying 4 Command and 4 Skullcrack main and I like it, but I also prefer Nacatl not requiring spells to attack for 3.
It's going to hurt in the mirror though, so you might want Helix mained.
24 being Lightning Bolt, Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, Bump in the Night, Shard Volley, and Collateral Damage?
What there isn't, though, is another wave of M15, which I think is contributing to this. I've heard that V4 being out out the same time curtailed drafting and redeeming, so there's less of it from online sources, plus less drafted in paper because KTK was released earlier.
I think that's why even uncommons like Stoke are up to $4 while in-print, and same with Rabblemaster - both are generically good cards, on already stressed supply, same with Painlands.
Cards you'll need:
4x goblin guide
4x eidolon of the great revel
2x grim lavamancer
4x lightning bolt
4x chain lightning
4x lava spike
4x rift bolt
4x fireblast
4x price of progress
Optional, but worth it:
4x searing blaze
4x flame rift
+ 2x grim lavamancer
8-12 red fetchlands (I'd recommend at least 8 with 2x Grim. The reprint in Khans makes this much cheaper)
SB
2-3 Sulfuric Vortex
Sadly, most of the optimal burn cards aren't really replaceable. Vexing Devil is ok, but I think Grim is generally better.
I agree much more with this, plus it's also a great 1-drop. If you want to play them, 4 is correct if you run 10-12 fetchlands. Drawing 2 just means the first one immediately gets destroyed, which is not that big of a deal. Run 2-3 with 8 or less fetches.
With the ONS fetches, add more Grim Lavamancers, and play more fetches. Searing effects and Flames of the Blood Hand are good for reach, but you really don't want that many 3-CMC spells, and Grim makes playing them harder.
This. Also, Vortex is good SB card, but is not as good in the maindeck as it use to be due to Abrupt Decay, the increased number of creatures in decks, and Ediolon being good enough to warrant maindeck play. It's also only really amazing versus Miracles, and is good versus Blade if the board is kind of clear.
I agree on this being a deck where "don't fix it if it's not broken" applies, with a little room for flex slots. The SB is where you can experiment a bit more.
Current SB:
4x Searing Blood (any creature deck, 4x Searing Blaze main)
4x Molten Rain (UWR decks, possibly BG if on the draw, needs testing)
3x Smash to Smithereens (Affinity)
2x Torpor Orb (Twin, Pod, UWR Kikki Twin, any UW Flash or Finks decks) (I've found these to really be worth it even though they aren't Burn)
2x Flex slot (between Relic of Progenitus, Guerilla Tactics, Cryoclasm, Ensnaring Bridge, Dragon's Claw)
While I agree with the logic behind the amount of land you want, I would highly recommend against running more than 12 fetches for filtering. At that point you border on drawing dead fetches pretty often and start taking about 3-4 damage per game, not counting untapped shock lands. This is from experience in Legacy, where running 4 Grim and 4 Searing Blaze is much more common.
I'd suggest 12 red fetches, 20 total land (it's the same as 19 with 12 fetches) and maxing out on Grim and Searing Blaze.
I'd highly recommend never playing any non-red land in this deck. We don't care about Blood Moon and IMO can't risk playing around it.
Fetches were around 10-12 each throughout there T2 tenure, with the exception of release as everyone scrambled to get copies for non T2 formats. I remember buying Arid Mesas for 10 each from TNT and trading for Marsh Flats at 8 around the release of ROE. The ZEN fetches didn't break 10-12 until about a year or more after rotation.