Anyone running into a bug with the Ring of Three Wishes? I just used it three turns in a row, trying to select a creature and all three times it gave me a land for some reason.
I made sure the card I wanted was highlighted, even double tapped it to see if there was an option to select that card but there isn't. Very frustrating if something as simple as a card effect is bugged.
Let's say the Original Duals are all $100 each (they're not; some are more, some less, but just standardise the cost for the sake of this thought process). WotC reprints all 10 duals in a product called, From the Vault: Lands. Now, most places are going to open that product themselves, and sell the Duals, because they're still going to be really expensive. Consider that a lot of Legacy players want Duals, but don't have them. So, the price of the Duals drops to, say, $60 (and that's probably being very generous).
So WotC sees that the price for Duals went down, and is happy, but wants to drop it further, so the next year, they release Allies Vs. Enemies, and they reprint all 10 Dual lands again. This time, they'll maybe fall to $35-$40, which seems more reasonable, but it's taken us 2 years to get there, and is still out of some people's price ranges.
On top of that, consider that the Duals are the only Legacy staple. You also need Fetches, Force of Will, Brainstorm (admittedly not that bad), Tarmagoyf, Dark Confidant and a host of other cards that are all pretty expensive, and increase barrier of entry money-wise. Reprinting the duals once won't open up the format to a lot of people; they'd need to be reprinted 2 or maybe even 3 times before their cost drops low enough for people to be able to afford them, realistically, and even then, they aren't the only expensive cards in the format, nor are they the only expensive cards on the reserved list. This problem goes well beyond the duals.
I think your logic is flawed. First of all, no matter how many copies of a card are reprinted, they can never take away the value associated with being from Alpha, Beta or Unlimited. Period. As I mentioned in a post above, comic books have been dealing with this issue for years. Do you think if DC reprinted (and they probably actually have) Action Comics #1 or Detective Comics #27 that the original prints of those issues would fall in value? No way.
The only thing the RL serves is people who've invested in those cards for financial reasons. Pure collectors won't be affected or put off by reprints because their originals will still retain value simply for being original.
I don't deny that initially the prices of the original cards may dip, but as more people are introduced to dual lands (there has got to be legions of younger fans who don't look at old card sets or spend a lot of time on sites like MTGS who've never even heard of the dual lands) the value of those original cards will rebound as their very rareness and aura of unavailability grows. Reprints are second class citizens when compared to first editions. Reprints will be used for play, originals will remain collector's items.
most of the people that own the duals are magic's most devoted players. the people who work hard, earn money, and spend a good chunk of it on magic cards.
to reprint the duals and have those people's collection value hit the floor, would not be good for the game, or for business. some would probably quit the game. or, if not, at least stop buying magic cards.
think if you spent most of the money you set aside for enjoyment on magic cards. you had 9x of each dual, and had earned them over the course of 3 years. then they reprint the duals, and each one falls to about $12 each. what would you do?
sure, it might be good for business in the sense that now newer players can pick them up more easily. it's tangible that they might even do such a thing.
but i think the system is fine how it stands. not as many people are complaining/going crazy about the prices of duals now as there would be if they got reprinted. sure, i wouldn't mind if underground sea dropped $30 so i could get a set more easily, but i'm not *****ing about the price, and most people i've dealt with aren't either.
legacy already has its pool of people, and it's growing, not shrinking. wizards is making plenty of money. standard players are playing standard. everything is behaving as it should. reprint the duals, chaos breaks loose. i don't think wizards wants that. as a company, i'm pretty sure they would want to play it safe.
unless something strangely dramatic happens in the future, i can't see them reprinting the duals.
I don't think this is entirely true. For example, the comic book industry has been dealing with reprints for decades, and original prints of comics are not devalued because of it.
From a collector standpoint, reprints of cards won't affect value enormously, because regardless of how many copies of a card are reprinted, they can never have the same cachet as an original print.
True, card values of something like the dual lands might see an initial dip, but an original print will always have that added value of being original.
Doubtless the market would correct itself and in fact, wider knowledge of how good those original dual lands are could actually drive value up on the collector market.
Personally, even though I have reprints of lots of comics for the purposes of collecting the entire run, I still look for earlier reprints or first editions because their collector value is still great to me, even though I already have an edition. The same will most likely hold true for a great many of OOP Magic cards.
I'm not sure what your getting at. What does your admittedly flawed forum, with a completely different base code, have to do with salvation?
how i can i put this? either you're trolling, both here and in the complaining about the mods thread, or you're simply unable to understand the arguments people are making.
what i was getting at, with my previous comment about a different forum, is that it works well and there is not a section anywhere on this other forum where people complain about the site administration. sure, there are complaints- the search function sucks, thumbnail limits are too small, etc.- but it's all trivial stuff that doesn't really bother anyone. the point is that the community polices itself. it doesn't require an overzealous band of guys prodding people with their mod-stick to make it run smoothly. it runs smoothly because the community wants it to run that way.
yes, the community wants mtgs to run smoothly as well, however, this is the most rules conscious forum i've ever visited and it shows. not only does it show, but there is an obvious and totally understandable level of annoyance regarding the rules.
the admins, mods and their supporters (or those who don't care) are happy with the system and make up the majority of the user base, so things won't change.
let me put it this way: i like mtgs because i can come here and get rules clarified. there's tons of information here. however, i don't like visiting mtgs. the mods and admins have created an unwelcome feel to the place and the general tone of the forum is kind of unpleasant.
Yes, I agree. Forcing people to obey traffic laws, drinking laws, murder laws and other important laws are detrimental, no matter what.
Not a single rule on this site is unreasonable. Even minor ones like using deck tags when posting a deck exist to make reading posts easier for everyone.
you do make a good point, but let's just take your analogy one step further...
the american government enacted prohibition in the 30s. that was a law on the books, alcohol was illegal just like cocaine and heroine are now.
however, no one was happy with prohibition (with the usual exceptions: religious nuts, prudes, crazy people, etc) so the government eventually repealed a law that was found to be both unjust and unenforceable. taking it one tiny step further, look at the american war on drugs: it's resulted in the country with the highest rate of incarceration in the developed world, and possible the entire world, and has not stemmed the tide of illegal drugs in that country one bit. in fact, research shows that drug costs go down and purity levels rise as more money is poured into the war on drugs.
does it make sense to continue the war on drugs? it's an extreme analogy, but it's apt. the mods and admins can never spend enough time infracting, warning and banning users to create the utopian vision they are shooting for. it's simply a numbers game. if you have 51,000 members and 50 mods, the mods are severely outnumbered.
depending on how you define it, sure, none of the rules are unreasonable. the problem is, most of the time people are unreasonable too. the rules of the site do maintain a certain order, but they also create a sense of frustration when simply trying to interact with the community. when you have to spend extra minutes checking rules, pming mods and awaiting an answer, in the end it's easier just to eat an infraction than to follow the rules.
sure, those situations are probably well in the minority, but the fact that there are as many threads as there are in this particular subforum complaining about the system is it's own commentary on how frustrating the rules system is overall.
if the goal is a clean and easy to read forum, i think the rules have failed. if the goal is to create an atmosphere free of trolling, flamewars and off topic nonsense, then i suppose you could call the rules a success. personally, i'd prefer the former goal be achieved, but hey, that's just me.
honestly, your "experienced" friend should know better. unless it's a specific card that says otherwise, anyone who claims to have been playing for 7 years should know that you can't "save up" regeneration "counters" on a creature. you can certainly activate regeneration on one creature more than once per turn, but it doesn't carry over to the next turn, nor can you "save it" until your creature takes lethal damage.
if you haven't already, i suggest you take the time to sit down and read through the comprehensive rules. you'll gain a lot of insight and you'll also be able to recognize more easily when you and your friends may be misinterpreting the rules and that will give you the chance to go to the rules right then and there to try and figure it out on your own.
So, I get the fact that you don't find harm in double posting and necro'ing. But the reality is, not only does it clutter the forum, it often brings back irrelevant information.
aargh. i'm working very hard to remain polite and not insult anyone, but this thought process is exactly what is wrong with this entire forum.
"start an entirely new thread because using an old thread clutters up the forum"
does this make any sense to anyone? so rather than continue a discussion, which granted may be old, you'd like an entirely new thread on the exact same thing. this only makes sense in bizzaro world.
new information in an old thread which might, might, contain irrelevant information is less preferable than upping the thread count with a new thread that is either lacking context, because the previous thread about the same subject is considered "dead" by the mods, or a new thread with all that old, "irrelevant" information included so the rest of the community knows what you're talking about/referring to?
is this not both needlessly complex and completely insane?
What improves the community is forcing people follow the rules that are in place to improve the quality of posts on the forums.
oh my. oh my, oh my. since when has forcing people to do anything, anywhere ever made them happier or more willing to cooperate? of course it would be ridiculous of me to equate your position with such frivolous subjects as slavery or the attempted systematic eradication of the jewish people, because that would be just silly. however, on the one hand i think we can all see how forcing your views, rules, beliefs or philosophies upon others, no matter what, is generally held to be detrimental. except of course by those setting the rules and their supporters.
Have you ever considered that the reason this is such a great community is because of the rules and the work that the mods do?
not at all. i've never visited a website, forum, bbs or any other community-minded site where i could honestly say that the community- good or bad- was a result of the rules and not the people.
i frequent a community weblog where the only form of policing is by a karma system with all members able to give positive and negative mods to all posts and comments. drop your karma too low and you have to earn some positive karma before you can post. you can always post comments, but as it only takes 5 negative mods to make your comment disappear from view, if someone comes to the site specifically to troll and flame, they'll not get very far when everything they say or do is modded into oblivion.
the system isn't perfect, but at the same time we don't have a cabal of moderators standing over us and rapping us on the knuckles every time we deign to break a rule, which is exactly what MTGS is like.
in the end, if you treat people like children, with endless, persnickety rules and anal and pedantic moderators more than happy to enforce every single one of them, you will always have an undercurrent of unrest.
I've been around a few forums and the vast majority simply disable editing of moderated posts, which is a cleaner solution than making it a rule and hoping people follow it.
it really took 4 pages for someone to mention this? seriously, why is this not already the case? the easiest solution is that after a mod edits a post, the post is locked. the thread lives on. frankly, after that, if the OP double posts, or "spams" as it were, then the mod could just lock the thread and done.
but no, the mods would just prefer to diddle around with a bunch of goofy rules and hand out infractions.
MTGS is a great community of magic players, an unimpressive group of mods and a whole bunch of stupid rules.
i just got called a troll for expressing this opinion:
ugh, this is why i kind of hate the rules that we have since i've returned to MTG. the last set i played with before zendikar was ice age, what with all the interrupts and all.
now that i've come back and there's this stack thing, which we all just used intuitively anyway, as well as "priority", it seems counter-intuitive.
if you think about it, the game is a "duel" (two player, anyway) and in a duel, you don't let your opponent shoot first then wait for your your shot before you take it. fastest draw wins, right? so, in my mind, once my opponent's summon spell resolves, and the stack is empty, it should be fair game. i shouldn't have to wait for my opponent to pass priority to me so i can tap an artifact or play an instant. i should be able to do those things because they are at instant speed. priority is only a tacked on rule in my mind.
i know i'm just griping, and i realize that the priority rules serve a purpose, i.e. in sanctioned play, but i think they are needlessly complex and restrictive and take away the original flavour and flow of MTG. when we used to play we had summons and interrupts and instants and sorceries and you knew when you could play each and the game had the simplicity/complexity dichotomy which is the hallmark of many classic games of strategy.
one of the reasons i don't and won't play in tournaments or FNM is because MTG seems to have evolved- or perhaps devolved- into a morass of rules aimed at keeping tournament play fair. to me it bogs down the game in a way i don't like.
wtf, i say, wtf
edited to add in a moderator showing how trolling is done:
please apply for the gutter we need more posters like you sincerely a caring and kind and personal writing forums moderator that's name is stifle as you can see upon you recieving this PM oh and hey look semantics you are reading more and more hahaha
a blind player vs a sighted player would require, in an official type of play, an impartial viewer to make sure that neither player was taken advantage of. don't forget, a sneaky blind player could claim that, for example, the braille on his sleeve identified a card as one thing, whereas the card itself may be something different. when played, the blind player would see it as one card and the sighted player another. could be all sorts of difficult situations like that.
i think having an observer would really be necessary, unless it was just casual play with friends, who are unlikely to cheat against their blind friend. or so i would hope.
i've been tinkering with this, but only in a casual play deck. the life gain part is easy, holding out long enough to get the combo running is the tough part. i'm working with a small card base, so i'm slowly working on the deck as a accrue more cards.
also, i know that life gain/sanguine bond decks are out there, but i haven't looked at the card lists. i prefer just to fiddle away on my own.
As other's have stated, I think you should involve your parents. First of all, while an adult store owner may not respect you because of your age, if you bring a parent in to speak to him about this issue, he's going to want to listen or risk a call to your local Better Business Bureau regarding his behaviour and possible some police involvement for stealing your cards. Regardless of whether or not the cards are proxies, they are still your property. He's certainly within is rights to ask you not to use them and to leave his store, but he can't take your belongings.
This is all well and good, but stopping people using proxies is about as likely as stopping people illegally downloading music. Personally I think WotC should allow people to make proxies for personal use. For one thing, it's not going to hurt their business, especially if people are just using it for playtesting or because it's a 13 year old who can't afford to more than a couple boosters a month or can't afford the inflated prices on many singles.
I made sure the card I wanted was highlighted, even double tapped it to see if there was an option to select that card but there isn't. Very frustrating if something as simple as a card effect is bugged.
I think your logic is flawed. First of all, no matter how many copies of a card are reprinted, they can never take away the value associated with being from Alpha, Beta or Unlimited. Period. As I mentioned in a post above, comic books have been dealing with this issue for years. Do you think if DC reprinted (and they probably actually have) Action Comics #1 or Detective Comics #27 that the original prints of those issues would fall in value? No way.
The only thing the RL serves is people who've invested in those cards for financial reasons. Pure collectors won't be affected or put off by reprints because their originals will still retain value simply for being original.
I don't deny that initially the prices of the original cards may dip, but as more people are introduced to dual lands (there has got to be legions of younger fans who don't look at old card sets or spend a lot of time on sites like MTGS who've never even heard of the dual lands) the value of those original cards will rebound as their very rareness and aura of unavailability grows. Reprints are second class citizens when compared to first editions. Reprints will be used for play, originals will remain collector's items.
I don't think this is entirely true. For example, the comic book industry has been dealing with reprints for decades, and original prints of comics are not devalued because of it.
From a collector standpoint, reprints of cards won't affect value enormously, because regardless of how many copies of a card are reprinted, they can never have the same cachet as an original print.
True, card values of something like the dual lands might see an initial dip, but an original print will always have that added value of being original.
Doubtless the market would correct itself and in fact, wider knowledge of how good those original dual lands are could actually drive value up on the collector market.
Personally, even though I have reprints of lots of comics for the purposes of collecting the entire run, I still look for earlier reprints or first editions because their collector value is still great to me, even though I already have an edition. The same will most likely hold true for a great many of OOP Magic cards.
how i can i put this? either you're trolling, both here and in the complaining about the mods thread, or you're simply unable to understand the arguments people are making.
what i was getting at, with my previous comment about a different forum, is that it works well and there is not a section anywhere on this other forum where people complain about the site administration. sure, there are complaints- the search function sucks, thumbnail limits are too small, etc.- but it's all trivial stuff that doesn't really bother anyone. the point is that the community polices itself. it doesn't require an overzealous band of guys prodding people with their mod-stick to make it run smoothly. it runs smoothly because the community wants it to run that way.
yes, the community wants mtgs to run smoothly as well, however, this is the most rules conscious forum i've ever visited and it shows. not only does it show, but there is an obvious and totally understandable level of annoyance regarding the rules.
the admins, mods and their supporters (or those who don't care) are happy with the system and make up the majority of the user base, so things won't change.
let me put it this way: i like mtgs because i can come here and get rules clarified. there's tons of information here. however, i don't like visiting mtgs. the mods and admins have created an unwelcome feel to the place and the general tone of the forum is kind of unpleasant.
you do make a good point, but let's just take your analogy one step further...
the american government enacted prohibition in the 30s. that was a law on the books, alcohol was illegal just like cocaine and heroine are now.
however, no one was happy with prohibition (with the usual exceptions: religious nuts, prudes, crazy people, etc) so the government eventually repealed a law that was found to be both unjust and unenforceable. taking it one tiny step further, look at the american war on drugs: it's resulted in the country with the highest rate of incarceration in the developed world, and possible the entire world, and has not stemmed the tide of illegal drugs in that country one bit. in fact, research shows that drug costs go down and purity levels rise as more money is poured into the war on drugs.
does it make sense to continue the war on drugs? it's an extreme analogy, but it's apt. the mods and admins can never spend enough time infracting, warning and banning users to create the utopian vision they are shooting for. it's simply a numbers game. if you have 51,000 members and 50 mods, the mods are severely outnumbered.
depending on how you define it, sure, none of the rules are unreasonable. the problem is, most of the time people are unreasonable too. the rules of the site do maintain a certain order, but they also create a sense of frustration when simply trying to interact with the community. when you have to spend extra minutes checking rules, pming mods and awaiting an answer, in the end it's easier just to eat an infraction than to follow the rules.
sure, those situations are probably well in the minority, but the fact that there are as many threads as there are in this particular subforum complaining about the system is it's own commentary on how frustrating the rules system is overall.
if the goal is a clean and easy to read forum, i think the rules have failed. if the goal is to create an atmosphere free of trolling, flamewars and off topic nonsense, then i suppose you could call the rules a success. personally, i'd prefer the former goal be achieved, but hey, that's just me.
if you haven't already, i suggest you take the time to sit down and read through the comprehensive rules. you'll gain a lot of insight and you'll also be able to recognize more easily when you and your friends may be misinterpreting the rules and that will give you the chance to go to the rules right then and there to try and figure it out on your own.
aargh. i'm working very hard to remain polite and not insult anyone, but this thought process is exactly what is wrong with this entire forum.
"start an entirely new thread because using an old thread clutters up the forum"
does this make any sense to anyone? so rather than continue a discussion, which granted may be old, you'd like an entirely new thread on the exact same thing. this only makes sense in bizzaro world.
new information in an old thread which might, might, contain irrelevant information is less preferable than upping the thread count with a new thread that is either lacking context, because the previous thread about the same subject is considered "dead" by the mods, or a new thread with all that old, "irrelevant" information included so the rest of the community knows what you're talking about/referring to?
is this not both needlessly complex and completely insane?
head asplode.
oh my. oh my, oh my. since when has forcing people to do anything, anywhere ever made them happier or more willing to cooperate? of course it would be ridiculous of me to equate your position with such frivolous subjects as slavery or the attempted systematic eradication of the jewish people, because that would be just silly. however, on the one hand i think we can all see how forcing your views, rules, beliefs or philosophies upon others, no matter what, is generally held to be detrimental. except of course by those setting the rules and their supporters.
not at all. i've never visited a website, forum, bbs or any other community-minded site where i could honestly say that the community- good or bad- was a result of the rules and not the people.
i frequent a community weblog where the only form of policing is by a karma system with all members able to give positive and negative mods to all posts and comments. drop your karma too low and you have to earn some positive karma before you can post. you can always post comments, but as it only takes 5 negative mods to make your comment disappear from view, if someone comes to the site specifically to troll and flame, they'll not get very far when everything they say or do is modded into oblivion.
the system isn't perfect, but at the same time we don't have a cabal of moderators standing over us and rapping us on the knuckles every time we deign to break a rule, which is exactly what MTGS is like.
in the end, if you treat people like children, with endless, persnickety rules and anal and pedantic moderators more than happy to enforce every single one of them, you will always have an undercurrent of unrest.
it really took 4 pages for someone to mention this? seriously, why is this not already the case? the easiest solution is that after a mod edits a post, the post is locked. the thread lives on. frankly, after that, if the OP double posts, or "spams" as it were, then the mod could just lock the thread and done.
but no, the mods would just prefer to diddle around with a bunch of goofy rules and hand out infractions.
MTGS is a great community of magic players, an unimpressive group of mods and a whole bunch of stupid rules.
wtf, i say, wtf
edited to add in a moderator showing how trolling is done:
i think having an observer would really be necessary, unless it was just casual play with friends, who are unlikely to cheat against their blind friend. or so i would hope.
i've been tinkering with this, but only in a casual play deck. the life gain part is easy, holding out long enough to get the combo running is the tough part. i'm working with a small card base, so i'm slowly working on the deck as a accrue more cards.
also, i know that life gain/sanguine bond decks are out there, but i haven't looked at the card lists. i prefer just to fiddle away on my own.
This is all well and good, but stopping people using proxies is about as likely as stopping people illegally downloading music. Personally I think WotC should allow people to make proxies for personal use. For one thing, it's not going to hurt their business, especially if people are just using it for playtesting or because it's a 13 year old who can't afford to more than a couple boosters a month or can't afford the inflated prices on many singles.
It's a game, for pete's sake.
because mtgsalvation is home to the most pedantic and anal mods i've ever been subjected to.
Flame warning. -Carsten
is this just a language thing? as in playing a land and putting a land in to play from some other effect are different?
i.e. i can use a terramorphic expanse on an opponent's turn, if i so choose.