"not to mention that agent locks you into 2 colors. Honestly there were plenty of absurd artifacts around at the time of tezzeret making his +1 quite powereful as fas as CA goes and usually the problem was more of a "I hit the wrong artifact" than a "I didn't hit an artifact". Honestly the reason jace's 0 is better is because it can grab cards to protect jace and ditch useless cards via fetch lands, while tezz just went and found you a sword, batterskull, or wurmcoil engine which are all great cards but none so good as an intact tezz and did nothing to fix an already bad hand. I think /the real issue is not so much that tezz was narrow (although he did force you to play a less interactive deck) but rather that Jace was just absurd. Even in an all artifact deck an argument could be made for playing jace over tezz. Certainly being narrow pidgeon holed tezz into a less interactive strategy (which is not true of auger) But Jace pidgeon holed an entire format. After jace rotated and non-jace decks emerged Tezzerator was one of the better decks (went undefeated at FNM regularly as in 2-0'd every opponent). But enough with the tangent I think where your comparison of tezz and auger go wrong is that auger fits into an already established archetype while tezzerate made it's own archetype. If you ever built a deck around auger you were playing him wrong. I realize what you are getting at is flexibility versus potential power but saying jace is good because he's "flexible" is as ridiculous as saying black lotus is good because it's flexible. Yes black lotus is flexible, but it's good because it's a ritual that nets you 3 god damn mana for a 0 mana investment. So in conclution I actually sort of agree with you so far as omenreader is concerned but I will never conceed that jace is better because he's less narrow. Elspeth vs tezz would have been a much better comparison or even elspeth vs Domri Rade. "
but augur of bolas does warp your deck, you have to run a very high count of instants/sorceries to hit consistently just like tezzie required artifacts.
the other big thing people keep overlooking is a two lander with this new gal is so much better than a 2 lander with augur of bolas.
tezzeret is very powerfull but narrow, artifacts are good but a critical mass makes them a target.
jace the mindsculptor power is 0% derivied from his flexibility he was like batman. if commanding lead fateseal opponent out of game, if behind bounce to stabilize, if board parity brainstorm to advantage, he was good in every machup as against midrange he was a huge tempo play against control he was card advantage and a finisher, and aggro he at least dug for wrath.
im on a tangent again i apologize
the point i am trying to make is while augur has more raw power and potential upside (grab that wrath/sphinxrev/counter) he has downsides (at least 20 instance/sorc, can miss, cant dig for land) vs omen is the bedrock of consistency always greatly improving odds of curving out properly.
curving properly into turn 3 is so much more vital than some random extra spell.
and now we can run more detention spheres and jaces, and why not, we can even run creatures.
Augury owl had to compete with insane cards (ponder/preordain), and actually was still fine if your into hyper consitency. However the format just did not really need him, squad hawk and ponder better at job. I will say I ran him and he held a sword as well as his rival. also could block malakar bloodwitch. unlike some other birds
Augur of bolas is good in decks reliant on absurd amounts of instants/sorc but those decks also had to contantly bend over backwards to play him, even if your not a
this new guy is absurd because he combos very well with jace achitect of thought. That is a big deal. augur generally limited number of jaces you could run. as well as scry bieng very power with jace raw dig ability (jace would be nutters in a good combo deck)
finally it comes down to comparison of power jace the mindsculptor vs tezzeret angent of bolas
honestly raw power wise tezzeret is better, his plus ability is far more powerfull gaining you card advantage while also digging 5 cards deep for the one you want. tezz minus ability was great at offense and defense (could even kill jace turn he came down)
and ultimate frequently kills but much early.
the tricky part is tezzeret requires specific things (artifacts) he almost always hits but could miss. he is more powerfull than jace in the value of his abilities.
but nowhere near as consitant, jace always nets cards on brainstorm, between unsummon and fateseal he has a wider net of protection. and his ultimate is very high power.
the driving point is jace is more powerfull for his flexibility and you will find this new wizard is also flexible
this is almost to funny, Lead the stampede is one of the dumbest over powered cards printed in green and your hacing trouble figuring what to do?
no green sun zenith, no splash, no monument no bad pump spells.
creatures gentlemen, creatures and lands (low count on the lands). vengevine, and btw
3 mana to draw 3-4 cards on average (if you run pure creatures and low count lands).
what is blue black really sappose to do about that, they realistly have to brainstorm 3 times to compete with that kind of ca, and you run vengevines.
but how do you kill somone without monument
vengevine, jorga, archy, ezuri, and honestly fauna shaman
so much win, its stupid.
Elves got the best draw spell in standard, and they want to run green sun zenith because it grabs the elf they want. (its not a bad card, but it really pales in comparison)
you generate so much pressure with these cards, im not saying they cant win, its just not in blue blacks favor to be honest, vengevine is a cosntant headache, and lead the stampede is simply better then the action they have access to.
btw it cost 3, I have had the fun of my friend turn 1 arbor efling me, turn 1 I inquesitioned, and slumped 2 lead the stampedes and a bunch of other cards taht did not matter. took the stampede hope he wiffed, he grumled for only snagging 3 cards, (he was one short of a free vengevine)
the rest of teh game degenerated from their via sylvan ranges he was able to curve out despite me killing every archy I saw. (not wanting to get vengvined to early)
and then the vengevines hit, and this point im running low on cards, I can cast jace brainstorm and watch him die, not the best plan, I can black sun zenith only to get vengevined again, or I could wait to get elfballed, (and hope he is dumb enough to not jorga his problems away).
its powerfull, I wont say I have not won against it. (In fact I usually do), im running blue black tezzerator , and I have alot better options than normal blue black decks.
but it usaully comes down to does he see two vengevines, I lose.
does he resolve stampede, and does he whiff (hes hit two cards before , which was only a mono green divination, ive never beaten stampede for 5).
the message im trying to get at is im a realist, I dont like elves I think green is the worst color in magic.
But dont be dumb, lead the stampede is a gross card with elves. its a 3 mana jace,
but dont setup for failurte, dont run spells (not even in your side, if your afraid of red, just get baloths (leather and life gainer). one lead the stampede later and they are not attritioning anyone. get the artifact killer elf, play smarter not harder.
Rakka Mar is my best nongoblin pick, it constantly puts threats on the boarded, and if stolen doesnt provide the blue player alot of power. (unless they have multi mana artifact in play)
Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician
is still my favorite pick as a red deck general, his first ability deals with any kinda of other aggro deck since they dont want to block your 1/1 goblin if it cost them 4 life.
and his second ability, allows you to run abilities such as decree of ahnialation with little negative effect. (sac your lands in reaction to cycling)
Decree of ahnalation will outright kill any blue deck. its a non recoverable effect.
Price of glory is another bonkers effect, it forces opponent to pay a mighty cost for coutnering your spells, tht were not really worth coutnering in the first place.
My honest recomendation is looking at card kingdom at all goblins, they will wreck a control deck.
this is an early bluepring of the deck he is running
I cant find the list I finally went with (I cut cards liek tuk tuk, and even voracious dragon, added some better cards, ligthnign grieves)
But this should give you a vague idea at some stupid cards I found
dont bother with these their are plenty of goblins that blow up artifacts and are still bodies to threat with. some only cost 1 or 2 mana. Which is yet again stupid frustrating for your opponenet
o btw, skull clamp is silly when your running a bunch of 1/1's
And thats all wort is good for.
The tactitian is a house, for going all in.
My bro has one games off the back of sacking 6 mountains on 6th turn, with goblin chieftan in play, then war striking his opponent. (they did stifle the first activation forcing a sack of 2 mountains for nothing).
he was then swinging all out, with his general 4 goblin tokens the war chief, and pile driver. then using a floating mana from the explosion he goblin warstriked, dealing 6 to the face.
pile driver hit in for 11 damage, 4 tokens hit in for 8 damamge, the general and chieftan were blocked for 8 damage. and 6 off the war stike.
he oppenent had already been knocked down, a to 32 so this was lethal damage.
the amazing part is this was a remarkebly bad hand. he didnt have that many goblins in play for the warstrike, he saw none of his mana ramp, his oppnonent was simply waiting for a good spell to counter. and he couldnt find any. (short of pile driver which was a turn 2 drop anyway).
"@Yux. Wort, the Raidmother might work, but I like unconventional generals, and I'd prefer to stay with mono-color as well. Oh, and Akroma, Angel of Fury is most definitely red.
"
sorry for the Confusion, first Akroma is technically a red spell, in the same sense that harmonize is a green spell.
But it happens to go against what a red deck is attempting to do, You want to win early not off the back of a super high cost creature.
Your advantage is the ability to threat on turn 1.
Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician, is the general of my bro's deck, its mono red, and deals with other aggro decks quite nicely (blocking really doesnt pan out agaisnt this).
Also it protects against the effects of cycling decree of ahnilation. (which is will wreck any control deck).
If he is not running a bunch of wizards even better.
He cant establish true board pressence without creatures, and azami is great, but if she is only drawing 2-3 cards a turn, really he should be even easier to beat.
The big thing to disprupt a player like that is black, if hes running limited creature count, stuff like gatekeeper, and fleshbag are a house, make him lose the few creatures he has, cheap creatures are another big aspect.
If you have nothing worth taking it hurts him alot, 5 mana to take a 3 drop, is pretty bad.
Its honestly why I am a fan of tribal, thiers really very few wizards that I have that are worth killing, or stealing. However thier so many combo pieces when 5 hit the board most people scoop.
Same thing with goblins, individually they suck soemthing fierce, however the speed they operate at (even in edh) is pure stupidity, and thier invidual guys are not worth killing.
people thing combo's are the best edh. And thats why blue dominates so well.
Build a deck with synergy. And blue decks will ahve something to worry about.
Speaking as a blue player, (in fact I was the one who had my seas boiled, in my azami deck, He also forgot to mention it was a 3vsMe game, and all he succeeded in doing was breaking my lock on the sliver player (I had 20 wizards in play, and attempted to draw my way into an answer for boil, failing to do so and tapping myself out), causing the sliver player to win.).
I can tell you Akroma doesnt scare me in the slightest she is quite frankly not a red card (she is a white one). She is not fast, she is slow. And expesnive you have to run alot of mana in red to pay for that card. So much the better for me. Go ahead and try to out late game blue see how that works out for red.
The correct answer are those annoying little goblins. My little bro is so fond of.
We recently built him a deck, and its a blast to play against, thier are goblins that provoke my creature killing my important wizards, tons of stuff to shatter my artifacts. Constant pressure all the time, Toys like decree of ahnilation which is quite the trick to stop from cycling
And you want to know the worst part, Its worthless, I cant take anything from him, I end up shackling his stupid goblin piledriver (Usually hits alot harder than akroma, and drops way to early for me to deal with).
His is deck is just random idiocy, and its effect of agaisnt just about anyone.
you like elves well ill bolt your roflhouse, or searign blaze, or flame javil, it gets old fast.
People have forgoten a simple concept, aggro beats control, control beats combo, and combo beats aggro.
can teh goblins defeat a good combo deck, possible but not likely. He has to stop all the pieces from hitting at the right time. Or just beat them to death stupid fast (I have seen it happen), lackey into siege gang is agonizing.
His general is the goblin tactitian, anytime you have the bravado to block a goblin 4 to the face. adds up quick with a million 1/1. goblins.
But its not the only way to beat it, combo decks can still beat blue people are just looking in the wrong colors.
Green, is the answer, Green has almost good as draw as blue, and way better mana excell, Green decks laugh as blue turns taps out to play a darksteel ignot, when green can simply play unholy mana ramp objects, I run a druid deck that sets off to fast for blue to do anything. blue takes a turn green takes 2, blue takes a turn green takes 4, blue takes a turn, green slurpies its hand, and takes 3 turns. blue pulls off shenagains and cast time warp, and takes another turn muahahahahahah, green is sitting on 10 mana sources and a full hand.
this is acutally a pretty weak hand for my druid deck. seton is such an undervalued general, He turns everyone of his guys into a a land. and fun fact druids get the gilt leaf archdruid. taking all of blues lands makes them a sad panda
the druids deck cost me roughly 30 bucks, the goblins hit 60 (piledriver is pricey, and lackey is not much better).
as far building decks designed to kill blue, awesome its amusing when my deck turns red just long enough to kill your toys, and if you think boil is a great card agaisnt mono blue back to basics, has a lesson to teach tri-color decks for messing with mono colored bases.
stop attacking blue players the way blue players want to fight, I would not try to sword fight somone who has studied the art for 10 years, I would shoot him, twice, just to be sure.
"
They attack with Emrakul. One of two things happen:
1. You annihilate 6 (sacrifice everything except Emrakul) and block him. He just gained 6 permanents on you.
2. You annihilate 6 and you don't block him. You attack him next turn, he sacrifices all his lands. He attacks you back, you sacrifice everything, and you have no permanents."
"Blue red standard goblin rock is the worst idea for a deck I've ever heard"
Really a little while ago I heard somone suggestign 4 jaces in a budget deck
"
I tried to play a goblin deck with seige gang, guide, whacker, fodder, etc before WW came out at FNM and got 3rd... but mostly because of the last match my opponent was stuck on 4 mana in a baneslayer control deck..."
and Guide could have lost you that game buy giving them that 5th land, stuff happens.
"I have built more of a midrange deck. uses the goblins early on to do dmg, then if it goes to later turns, I have dragons to come in. Also, with RoE i have added the new Sarkhan and trying to fit in splinter twin for either broodmate or siege-gang. Sure the main gets sacced, but gets lots of tokens to swarm if you were stalled early game."
the trouble with midrange is your late game has to be as powefull as thiers, and bs angel and jar jar are just better then the dragons in standard, splinter twin has the vice of bieng an enchantment, and a 4 mana one to boot, if its not going on a troll shrouded creature your pushing the value of the card (an auto win like fatesitcher might be worth it but even still, very vulnerable).
Focusing more on goblin guide, he allows my opponents to draw cards, sure not everytime, but even if its just 1/3rd of the time. Thats very hard for a coutner deck to deal with.
This deck wins off winning through attrition, giving my opponets more ammo is a pretty bad idea. even more so when bushwacker turns my whole army into goblin guides.
even with comboing out with jace, If Jace sees their top card is a land, i would much rather let them keep that.
anyway im going to go back to working on my budget skyfisher/wall of omen/kngiht of the white orchid, deck. It runs 4 elspeth.
"it sounds like really you are making excuses for budgetary constraints by not putting in Guide and Chieftain, the best aggro goblins in standard atm"
sorry i just like to drink that statement in. For the record I actually own 4 chieftans, and 5 jaces, if I cared about goblin guide it would be mine. in a heartbeat.
I Was always weary of a card that can give my oppenet vic (swing with guide they reveal plains, then their turn they draw baneslayer).
Not to say he doesnt have a place, he is good if you plan on making sure that your opponent never survives till 5th turn.
However that is a rather ambitious goal, and with kor firewalker around dangerously ambitious.
This deck is not afraid of going late game. if they drop baneslayer jace returns it then goblins bash, fallout is about the best answer to deck, thats why jar jar is in sideboard.
cheiftan is good but he is a valuable target, where as the rest of the deck is perfectly fine to be terminated or pathed (siege gang commander, but that leves 3 dudes on board, would be the main target now). He also is a double red mana for 3 making him very hard to run counter magic (3rd and 4th turn are most important phase for counters).
To be honest I think you are bieng blinded by the net deck effect. Where if people say something is good it has to be. Goblin guide has little purpose in a solid rock deck. If you really think i am wrong ask how many jund decks run goblin guide.
this deck is much closer to a rock deck than a straight aggro deck.
In most Rdw, the idea is to hit so hard so fast they can die with a full hand.
this deck can have explosive early wins, but not its focus. It has I good deal of card advantage, and like any deck running jace, my opponent on top deck mode is ideal. Dont get me wrong this is a synergy with guide and Jace. But to be honest, Raging Goblin can swing without fear. And with the silliness of bushwhacker, I really dont care about that 1 extra damage.
Goblin Chieftain was a Harder choice. He and Warren Instigator, are dangerous in any goblin deck. However they cost double red mana. and are harder to sneak in.
The sole reason this deck is so powerful is because it can drop goblins with counter magic up. The exception is siege gang and jace, since they effect the board so powerfully.
Third turn against Jund, you want to have Swerve open or at least unified will. Dropping a raging goblin lets you do that, chieftain and warren don't.
the main reason dragon fodder made it as a 2 of, is to keep other decks from keeping up with creature base (unified will).
Don't get me wrong if you hit elfball you simply side out unified will for flash freeze.
But the deck has a specific purpose and goal.
It has a strong burn base, and a stupid about of CA the first time you bounce siege gang to your hand, you can see the look of sadness in your opponents eye.
Try it, it sounds stupid and silly, because it is. But how many decks really have a first turn drop. Raging goblin, arsonist, and bushwacker, are all potential turn 1 drops.
second turn unified will is online.
meanwhile you get to bash your opponents to death with goblins.
Siege gang commander is great, Jace is amazing with it. Siege gang lives blockers for defense. Jace provides gas, and btw goblin bushwacker with kicker, return bushwacker to hand, goblin bushwacker with kicker.
Ive played test with and against it. Sleeve it up, it works way better than it sounds.
you have alot of coniditional combos, but since they are so many that intersect.
And besides its alot more entertaining than generic Goblins beat face number 45.
Actually I currently run an aggro creature esper deck, it Stacks up nicely to aggro but has harder time with control.
the simple premise is use thropter foundry to mess with removal, and open the vaults as a way to regain control of board.
It uses a couple o simple tricks, etherium sculptor, esperzoa and kaliedastone. Combine means you have to return kaleidastone to hand then you play it for free and draw a card.
It runs orinthropters, as possible esperzoa bounce targets, as well thier syngergy with master of etherium.
It also runs scour glass as its only removal. (mainboard)
and of course ethersworn shield mage, is why its good against aggro decks. Just flash and block and rip apart their army. and Ethersworn cannonist is used to mess with jund (and force them to use removal before etherium and esperzoa show up).
Also since it relies on alot of fliers, alot of decks, just cant keep up with it.
dont get me wrong it has its flaws, but ive never done terrible with it. And it can play tier 1 decks out thier, it would not survive hate as well as tier 1 decks can, thus right now its just practice for world wake. at which point I will be a very happy camper.
but augur of bolas does warp your deck, you have to run a very high count of instants/sorceries to hit consistently just like tezzie required artifacts.
the other big thing people keep overlooking is a two lander with this new gal is so much better than a 2 lander with augur of bolas.
tezzeret is very powerfull but narrow, artifacts are good but a critical mass makes them a target.
jace the mindsculptor power is 0% derivied from his flexibility he was like batman. if commanding lead fateseal opponent out of game, if behind bounce to stabilize, if board parity brainstorm to advantage, he was good in every machup as against midrange he was a huge tempo play against control he was card advantage and a finisher, and aggro he at least dug for wrath.
im on a tangent again i apologize
the point i am trying to make is while augur has more raw power and potential upside (grab that wrath/sphinxrev/counter) he has downsides (at least 20 instance/sorc, can miss, cant dig for land) vs omen is the bedrock of consistency always greatly improving odds of curving out properly.
curving properly into turn 3 is so much more vital than some random extra spell.
and now we can run more detention spheres and jaces, and why not, we can even run creatures.
Augur of bolas is good in decks reliant on absurd amounts of instants/sorc but those decks also had to contantly bend over backwards to play him, even if your not a
this new guy is absurd because he combos very well with jace achitect of thought. That is a big deal. augur generally limited number of jaces you could run. as well as scry bieng very power with jace raw dig ability (jace would be nutters in a good combo deck)
finally it comes down to comparison of power jace the mindsculptor vs tezzeret angent of bolas
honestly raw power wise tezzeret is better, his plus ability is far more powerfull gaining you card advantage while also digging 5 cards deep for the one you want. tezz minus ability was great at offense and defense (could even kill jace turn he came down)
and ultimate frequently kills but much early.
the tricky part is tezzeret requires specific things (artifacts) he almost always hits but could miss. he is more powerfull than jace in the value of his abilities.
but nowhere near as consitant, jace always nets cards on brainstorm, between unsummon and fateseal he has a wider net of protection. and his ultimate is very high power.
the driving point is jace is more powerfull for his flexibility and you will find this new wizard is also flexible
no green sun zenith, no splash, no monument no bad pump spells.
creatures gentlemen, creatures and lands (low count on the lands). vengevine, and btw
3 mana to draw 3-4 cards on average (if you run pure creatures and low count lands).
what is blue black really sappose to do about that, they realistly have to brainstorm 3 times to compete with that kind of ca, and you run vengevines.
but how do you kill somone without monument
vengevine, jorga, archy, ezuri, and honestly fauna shaman
so much win, its stupid.
Elves got the best draw spell in standard, and they want to run green sun zenith because it grabs the elf they want. (its not a bad card, but it really pales in comparison)
you generate so much pressure with these cards, im not saying they cant win, its just not in blue blacks favor to be honest, vengevine is a cosntant headache, and lead the stampede is simply better then the action they have access to.
btw it cost 3, I have had the fun of my friend turn 1 arbor efling me, turn 1 I inquesitioned, and slumped 2 lead the stampedes and a bunch of other cards taht did not matter. took the stampede hope he wiffed, he grumled for only snagging 3 cards, (he was one short of a free vengevine)
the rest of teh game degenerated from their via sylvan ranges he was able to curve out despite me killing every archy I saw. (not wanting to get vengvined to early)
and then the vengevines hit, and this point im running low on cards, I can cast jace brainstorm and watch him die, not the best plan, I can black sun zenith only to get vengevined again, or I could wait to get elfballed, (and hope he is dumb enough to not jorga his problems away).
its powerfull, I wont say I have not won against it. (In fact I usually do), im running blue black tezzerator , and I have alot better options than normal blue black decks.
but it usaully comes down to does he see two vengevines, I lose.
does he resolve stampede, and does he whiff (hes hit two cards before , which was only a mono green divination, ive never beaten stampede for 5).
the message im trying to get at is im a realist, I dont like elves I think green is the worst color in magic.
But dont be dumb, lead the stampede is a gross card with elves. its a 3 mana jace,
but dont setup for failurte, dont run spells (not even in your side, if your afraid of red, just get baloths (leather and life gainer). one lead the stampede later and they are not attritioning anyone. get the artifact killer elf, play smarter not harder.
Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician
is still my favorite pick as a red deck general, his first ability deals with any kinda of other aggro deck since they dont want to block your 1/1 goblin if it cost them 4 life.
and his second ability, allows you to run abilities such as decree of ahnialation with little negative effect. (sac your lands in reaction to cycling)
Decree of ahnalation will outright kill any blue deck. its a non recoverable effect.
Price of glory is another bonkers effect, it forces opponent to pay a mighty cost for coutnering your spells, tht were not really worth coutnering in the first place.
My honest recomendation is looking at card kingdom at all goblins, they will wreck a control deck.
Searing Blaze
2 Goblin Vandal
3 Skullclamp
*Raging Goblin
5 Sensation Gorger
* Predator Dragon
* Siege-Gang Commander
Goblin King
* Lightning Bolt
* Banefire
* Goblin Arsonist
13 Decree of Annihilation
14 Goblin Chirurgeon
15 Price of Glory
*Browbeat
17 Wild Ricochet
18 Mogg Fanatic
19 Goblin Caves
20 Moggcatcher
* Raid bombardment
* Dragon Fodder
*Siege Gange Commander
24 Stingscourger
Goblin Lackey
26 Goblin Warrens
27 Akki Blizzard-Herder
28 Goblin Grenadiers
29 Arms Dealer
30 Bloodmark Mentor
31 Goblin Ruinblaster
32 caterwauling Boggart
33 goblin recruiter
* Voracious Dragon
* Seething Song
36 Mogg Infestation
37 Goblin War Strike
* Goblin Chieftan
* Goblin Bushwacker
* Empty the Warrens
* warren Instigator
42 Goblin Warchief
43 Goblin Grenade
Goblin Piledriver
* Aether Vial
45 Goblin Matron
46 Gempalm Incinerator
47 Intimidator Initiate
48 Brightstone Ritual
*Mogg Sentry
50 Rage Reflection
51 Warbreak Trumpeter
52 Goblin Offensive
53 Mogg War Marshal
54 Skirk Prospector
55 Goblin Sledder
56 Skirk Fire Marshal
57 Goblin Grappler
58 Boggart Shenanigans
* tuk tuk goblin explore
60 Firefright Mage
this is an early bluepring of the deck he is running
I cant find the list I finally went with (I cut cards liek tuk tuk, and even voracious dragon, added some better cards, ligthnign grieves)
But this should give you a vague idea at some stupid cards I found
While at first Wort was my first pick for a goblin general, Over time i realized i suffers the same trap as most edh decks.
You will not out late game a blue deck, not with mono red, not with mono black (thats the closest option).
"Shattering Spree, Shatterstorm, Shattering Pulse, Keldon Vandals, Hearth Kami for starters.'
dont bother with these their are plenty of goblins that blow up artifacts and are still bodies to threat with. some only cost 1 or 2 mana. Which is yet again stupid frustrating for your opponenet
o btw, skull clamp is silly when your running a bunch of 1/1's
And thats all wort is good for.
The tactitian is a house, for going all in.
My bro has one games off the back of sacking 6 mountains on 6th turn, with goblin chieftan in play, then war striking his opponent. (they did stifle the first activation forcing a sack of 2 mountains for nothing).
he was then swinging all out, with his general 4 goblin tokens the war chief, and pile driver. then using a floating mana from the explosion he goblin warstriked, dealing 6 to the face.
pile driver hit in for 11 damage, 4 tokens hit in for 8 damamge, the general and chieftan were blocked for 8 damage. and 6 off the war stike.
he oppenent had already been knocked down, a to 32 so this was lethal damage.
the amazing part is this was a remarkebly bad hand. he didnt have that many goblins in play for the warstrike, he saw none of his mana ramp, his oppnonent was simply waiting for a good spell to counter. and he couldnt find any. (short of pile driver which was a turn 2 drop anyway).
"
sorry for the Confusion, first Akroma is technically a red spell, in the same sense that harmonize is a green spell.
But it happens to go against what a red deck is attempting to do, You want to win early not off the back of a super high cost creature.
Your advantage is the ability to threat on turn 1.
Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician, is the general of my bro's deck, its mono red, and deals with other aggro decks quite nicely (blocking really doesnt pan out agaisnt this).
Also it protects against the effects of cycling decree of ahnilation. (which is will wreck any control deck).
If he is not running a bunch of wizards even better.
He cant establish true board pressence without creatures, and azami is great, but if she is only drawing 2-3 cards a turn, really he should be even easier to beat.
The big thing to disprupt a player like that is black, if hes running limited creature count, stuff like gatekeeper, and fleshbag are a house, make him lose the few creatures he has, cheap creatures are another big aspect.
If you have nothing worth taking it hurts him alot, 5 mana to take a 3 drop, is pretty bad.
Its honestly why I am a fan of tribal, thiers really very few wizards that I have that are worth killing, or stealing. However thier so many combo pieces when 5 hit the board most people scoop.
Same thing with goblins, individually they suck soemthing fierce, however the speed they operate at (even in edh) is pure stupidity, and thier invidual guys are not worth killing.
people thing combo's are the best edh. And thats why blue dominates so well.
Build a deck with synergy. And blue decks will ahve something to worry about.
I can tell you Akroma doesnt scare me in the slightest she is quite frankly not a red card (she is a white one). She is not fast, she is slow. And expesnive you have to run alot of mana in red to pay for that card. So much the better for me. Go ahead and try to out late game blue see how that works out for red.
The correct answer are those annoying little goblins. My little bro is so fond of.
We recently built him a deck, and its a blast to play against, thier are goblins that provoke my creature killing my important wizards, tons of stuff to shatter my artifacts. Constant pressure all the time, Toys like decree of ahnilation which is quite the trick to stop from cycling
And you want to know the worst part, Its worthless, I cant take anything from him, I end up shackling his stupid goblin piledriver (Usually hits alot harder than akroma, and drops way to early for me to deal with).
His is deck is just random idiocy, and its effect of agaisnt just about anyone.
you like elves well ill bolt your roflhouse, or searign blaze, or flame javil, it gets old fast.
People have forgoten a simple concept, aggro beats control, control beats combo, and combo beats aggro.
can teh goblins defeat a good combo deck, possible but not likely. He has to stop all the pieces from hitting at the right time. Or just beat them to death stupid fast (I have seen it happen), lackey into siege gang is agonizing.
His general is the goblin tactitian, anytime you have the bravado to block a goblin 4 to the face. adds up quick with a million 1/1. goblins.
But its not the only way to beat it, combo decks can still beat blue people are just looking in the wrong colors.
Green, is the answer, Green has almost good as draw as blue, and way better mana excell, Green decks laugh as blue turns taps out to play a darksteel ignot, when green can simply play unholy mana ramp objects, I run a druid deck that sets off to fast for blue to do anything. blue takes a turn green takes 2, blue takes a turn green takes 4, blue takes a turn, green slurpies its hand, and takes 3 turns. blue pulls off shenagains and cast time warp, and takes another turn muahahahahahah, green is sitting on 10 mana sources and a full hand.
this is acutally a pretty weak hand for my druid deck. seton is such an undervalued general, He turns everyone of his guys into a a land. and fun fact druids get the gilt leaf archdruid. taking all of blues lands makes them a sad panda
the druids deck cost me roughly 30 bucks, the goblins hit 60 (piledriver is pricey, and lackey is not much better).
as far building decks designed to kill blue, awesome its amusing when my deck turns red just long enough to kill your toys, and if you think boil is a great card agaisnt mono blue back to basics, has a lesson to teach tri-color decks for messing with mono colored bases.
stop attacking blue players the way blue players want to fight, I would not try to sword fight somone who has studied the art for 10 years, I would shoot him, twice, just to be sure.
They attack with Emrakul. One of two things happen:
1. You annihilate 6 (sacrifice everything except Emrakul) and block him. He just gained 6 permanents on you.
2. You annihilate 6 and you don't block him. You attack him next turn, he sacrifices all his lands. He attacks you back, you sacrifice everything, and you have no permanents."
Legendary rule says you do niether
Really a little while ago I heard somone suggestign 4 jaces in a budget deck
"
I tried to play a goblin deck with seige gang, guide, whacker, fodder, etc before WW came out at FNM and got 3rd... but mostly because of the last match my opponent was stuck on 4 mana in a baneslayer control deck..."
and Guide could have lost you that game buy giving them that 5th land, stuff happens.
"I have built more of a midrange deck. uses the goblins early on to do dmg, then if it goes to later turns, I have dragons to come in. Also, with RoE i have added the new Sarkhan and trying to fit in splinter twin for either broodmate or siege-gang. Sure the main gets sacced, but gets lots of tokens to swarm if you were stalled early game."
the trouble with midrange is your late game has to be as powefull as thiers, and bs angel and jar jar are just better then the dragons in standard, splinter twin has the vice of bieng an enchantment, and a 4 mana one to boot, if its not going on a troll shrouded creature your pushing the value of the card (an auto win like fatesitcher might be worth it but even still, very vulnerable).
This deck wins off winning through attrition, giving my opponets more ammo is a pretty bad idea. even more so when bushwacker turns my whole army into goblin guides.
even with comboing out with jace, If Jace sees their top card is a land, i would much rather let them keep that.
anyway im going to go back to working on my budget skyfisher/wall of omen/kngiht of the white orchid, deck. It runs 4 elspeth.
sorry i just like to drink that statement in. For the record I actually own 4 chieftans, and 5 jaces, if I cared about goblin guide it would be mine. in a heartbeat.
I Was always weary of a card that can give my oppenet vic (swing with guide they reveal plains, then their turn they draw baneslayer).
Not to say he doesnt have a place, he is good if you plan on making sure that your opponent never survives till 5th turn.
However that is a rather ambitious goal, and with kor firewalker around dangerously ambitious.
This deck is not afraid of going late game. if they drop baneslayer jace returns it then goblins bash, fallout is about the best answer to deck, thats why jar jar is in sideboard.
cheiftan is good but he is a valuable target, where as the rest of the deck is perfectly fine to be terminated or pathed (siege gang commander, but that leves 3 dudes on board, would be the main target now). He also is a double red mana for 3 making him very hard to run counter magic (3rd and 4th turn are most important phase for counters).
To be honest I think you are bieng blinded by the net deck effect. Where if people say something is good it has to be. Goblin guide has little purpose in a solid rock deck. If you really think i am wrong ask how many jund decks run goblin guide.
this deck is much closer to a rock deck than a straight aggro deck.
In most Rdw, the idea is to hit so hard so fast they can die with a full hand.
this deck can have explosive early wins, but not its focus. It has I good deal of card advantage, and like any deck running jace, my opponent on top deck mode is ideal. Dont get me wrong this is a synergy with guide and Jace. But to be honest, Raging Goblin can swing without fear. And with the silliness of bushwhacker, I really dont care about that 1 extra damage.
Goblin Chieftain was a Harder choice. He and Warren Instigator, are dangerous in any goblin deck. However they cost double red mana. and are harder to sneak in.
The sole reason this deck is so powerful is because it can drop goblins with counter magic up. The exception is siege gang and jace, since they effect the board so powerfully.
Third turn against Jund, you want to have Swerve open or at least unified will. Dropping a raging goblin lets you do that, chieftain and warren don't.
the main reason dragon fodder made it as a 2 of, is to keep other decks from keeping up with creature base (unified will).
Don't get me wrong if you hit elfball you simply side out unified will for flash freeze.
But the deck has a specific purpose and goal.
It has a strong burn base, and a stupid about of CA the first time you bounce siege gang to your hand, you can see the look of sadness in your opponents eye.
4 Goblin arsonist
3 Unified Will
2 Swerve
2 Spell Pierce
4 Siege Gang Commander
4 Jace the Mind Sculptor
3 Double Negative
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Bushwacker
2 Dragon Fodder
4 Scalding Tarn
10 Islands
10 Mountains
4 Flash Freeze
4 Goblin Mountaineer
4 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
3 Flame Slash
Try it, it sounds stupid and silly, because it is. But how many decks really have a first turn drop. Raging goblin, arsonist, and bushwacker, are all potential turn 1 drops.
second turn unified will is online.
meanwhile you get to bash your opponents to death with goblins.
Siege gang commander is great, Jace is amazing with it. Siege gang lives blockers for defense. Jace provides gas, and btw goblin bushwacker with kicker, return bushwacker to hand, goblin bushwacker with kicker.
Ive played test with and against it. Sleeve it up, it works way better than it sounds.
you have alot of coniditional combos, but since they are so many that intersect.
And besides its alot more entertaining than generic Goblins beat face number 45.
He finally got to 10 mana 2 of each color (mana ramp). and was on top deck mode. He had some terrifying beaters.
I cast telemins performance and burned through his draw spells, and his nicolo bolas, into progenetus. Nicolo bolas was actually on top of progenetus.
He walked away from the table.
the simple premise is use thropter foundry to mess with removal, and open the vaults as a way to regain control of board.
It uses a couple o simple tricks, etherium sculptor, esperzoa and kaliedastone. Combine means you have to return kaleidastone to hand then you play it for free and draw a card.
It runs orinthropters, as possible esperzoa bounce targets, as well thier syngergy with master of etherium.
It also runs scour glass as its only removal. (mainboard)
and of course ethersworn shield mage, is why its good against aggro decks. Just flash and block and rip apart their army. and Ethersworn cannonist is used to mess with jund (and force them to use removal before etherium and esperzoa show up).
Also since it relies on alot of fliers, alot of decks, just cant keep up with it.
dont get me wrong it has its flaws, but ive never done terrible with it. And it can play tier 1 decks out thier, it would not survive hate as well as tier 1 decks can, thus right now its just practice for world wake. at which point I will be a very happy camper.