(a) How godlike is "godlike" in your mind? You have made no argument that this first cause must, just to take for example one quality attributed to God, have a mind. If there were a first cause but it were mindless, would that still be a "godlike being" to you? Because if this is the route you take, then all you're basically saying is, "Whatever caused the universe, I'm just going to call it 'godlike'." Which is a pretty trivial claim; it tells us nothing about the qualities of the first cause. It's like saying, "Gremlins broke my car - and when I say that, I mean I have no idea what broke my car, but I'm just calling it 'gremlin-like' in the one respect that it's something that breaks cars."Quote from Valanarch »Either a godlike being exists because of what I said (unless if I am wrong, which I admit is always possible on MTG Salvation) or we just don't understand the mysteries of the universe and this discussion is pointless.
(b) Anyone who claims we do understand the mysteries of the universe may safely be ignored. But if we didn't talk about what we don't understand, we'd never come any closer to understanding anything. And worse still, we may end up thinking we understand something quite wrongly, because no one else is serving as a reality check.
Very well put.Quote from Taylor »I too like the idea of God and like the idea that--while there might not be a clear purpose for my life--there is at least a reason for existence. However, logic doesn't lead us to the conclusion of a Primum Movens. The idea that causality leads to an unmoved mover is self-contradictory. If everything must have a cause, then so must 'God.' Thus, that God isn't God. If you give an ad hoc ability to God to claim God is the start of the causality chain, such arbitrary attribute could just as easy be given to the Universe. Logic doesn't lead us to a prime mover.
I'm "guessing" that the universe wasn't created for a reason in the same way I'm "guessing" that zebra mussels can't speak Middle English. I have no evidence whatsoever that they can, and all the evidence I have is that the only things that can belong to a circumscribed category of entity which does not include zebra mussels - i.e., language is a distinctly human characteristic. And that's just zebra mussels. In the grand scheme of things, zebra mussels are very similar to humans, and easy to understand. How vastly less believable is it that something as absolutely alien to our experience and incomprehensible as the first cause of the universe should exhibit a quality as mundane as reasoning? The idea is a quaint, parochial anthropomorphism, and nothing more.Quote from Taylor »Some of us--like Blinking Spirit and Elvish Crack Piper--guess that this world likely wasn't created for a reason. Some of us--like myself and Highroller--guess it was created for a reason. We all know, however, that this is a guess. And, if more information does--miraculously--come to light, we will adjust that guess accordingly.