Jesus, people are over-reacting. People who play this in their decks are going to have to forego Flashback, Undying and reanimation so that rather limits the sort of the decks they can play.
To say EVERYONE will put 4 in their SB is staggeringly naive. I am far more concerned at how damned good B/W Tokens is going to be than I am about this card
It's not unthinkable. Remember when Lorwyn introduced Planeswalkers, and everyone ran Pithing Needle (re-introduced in 10th edition) in their sideboards? This is similar. Sure, it's unlikely to be banned (any more likely than it was for Pithing Needle to get banned), but it's safe to say that anyone not using graveyard strategies will want 4 (or 2 and some Trinket Mages).
BTW, since it is comparable to Pithing Needle in usefulness, I'd say it may very well reach the same price Pithing Needle did ($15-20) while Standard-legal.
Im liking this card a lot, B/W tokens is getting a nice push.
So far:
T1: Doomed
T2: Gather the Townsfolk
T3: Virtue/Doomed
T4: Sorin - Token
T5: Sorin - Emblem/Tap this land, attack with 2 2/1 ll/dts, and 3 3/2 ll dts.
What a great demonstration of exactly how easy you can get overpowered with the new Sorin and this new land. Black and white (especially white) have no shortage of cheap token making cards in Standard, and this land - even while you have very few tokens out - can allow you to swing for devastating amounts.
I like this land in Standard, but I'd rather have one for my commander deck There are many formats that will get a boost from this land, and probably from the other 4 lands that this one suggests (a set of 5 like we saw in Innistrad, but this one made up of enemy colors).
Correct, but you're missing the most important point: Wurmcoil goes in any deck looking for a 6-drop. Vorapede can only go in decks that can consistently get GGG. Which means Wurmcoil's going to be seeing about 10x as much play regardless.
Some may say that's not relevant in comparing card strength, but I disagree. A card that can only consistently run well in a couple of deck types has to be weighed along with all the baggage the restrictions of those deck types bring to the card. Obliterator would be a lot stronger if it cost 5 instead of BBBB; Relentless would never see play if he cost 1GGG.
You strike me as one of those players who says "Sure Baneslayer is strong, but it dies so easily to Doom Blade." This is, you mock the weaknesses of cards (and probably other things) to feed your ego.
Trolling warning issued for the above paragraph. -viper
Standard has plenty of mana-fixing options at the moment, especially if you're running green (there are 2 sets of dual lands with the friendly colors - red and white, and 1 set of dual lands for black and blue). Sphere of the Suns and Manalith are both still in Standard. What makes you think 3 mana symbols out of 5 makes it so difficult to play?
Green just gained a new vigilant creature, which makes a total of 8 monogreen creatures now that have vigilance or can gain it through their own abilities (none of which are in Standard). And I'd happily play a 5/4 vigilant trampler for 5, which means I'd definitely play one that's hard to kill and nearly impossible to kill with infect. So please save the pessimism, and recognize the features this card has which are worthwhile.
i dont want to just hate on a mythic, but i dont see this being playable in any capacity
the only way it does anything decent is if its dead with a Lich or Necrotic Ooze in play, other than that, how could you tap out for a 1/1?
its a decent ability but its not even that great, so my question is: Why waste a mythic slot on this?
You seem to be a Standard-Constructed-Only player, I would assume. If you drafted this, you know how valuable it would be? There is very little creature removal in draft games, and it's only a 1/1 by itself but it really is as strong as your opponent's strongest creature since it will soon be yours.
I relish the thought of using it in a Commander deck. If you haven't played this format, it's littered with Eldrazi, and creature theft that can't be removed (like an enchantment) is rare. Besides this, there's Dominate, Riptide Entrancer, Thalakos Deceiver, Bribery, Blatant Thievery, Govern the Guildless, and Memnarch - that's it... and only Memnarch allows you to pull it off more than once. It's a more valuable card than you think... just look outside your particular format.
Yeah, you'd have to exile a creature. The Lich doesn't replace the casting cost of your creature in any way, merely opens up a new zone that it can be cast from.
I don't really see what makes these ideas mutually exclusive (a "dichotomy" that doesn't work well together). Even if you're running both themes in the same deck, you're working towards them in the same manner - putting creatures into your graveyard. Some of them you may want to resurrect, and some of them you may want to exile, but the choice is there to do whatever fits your particular situation best. It's versatility, not competing interests - a card that you've decided is a "cast from graveyard creature" doesn't "have to be cast" if it's a better idea to exile it.
Really? Can someone explain to me why everyone and their mothers are going bonkers over this.
It's versatile. It creates lifelinkers as chump blockers, so you can survive longer. The big ability, which only takes 2 turns to build up to, allows you to blow up opposing creatures to kill your opponents with. If your opponent isn't playing creatures or planeswalkers, you can just build up your own unblocked creatures to win with. It's very defensive and offensive.
It's awesome without being broken (in my humble opinion). I wouldn't say I'm "bonkers over this", but I am excited.
Just something to note: This isnt actually mana accelleration.
It's restriction is SUPER restrictive, and would actually hurt any burning vengeance deck it was put in: It makes less room for the flashback cards the deck needs.
Moving along...
Well... it's technically mana acceleration, but as you said, it's too restrictive. Even in a deck with nothing but flashback spells, lands, and a playset of these, you still have 3 cards in your deck that this can't help cast (the other 3 Altars)! And you could be running Manalith instead, which would still provide you with mana of any color for flashback cards or your other Manaliths, would not enter tapped, and still cost the same amount. It's not necessarily a bad card, but with a better alternative right there in standard, I can't see anyone bothering with this card. It might see play in block or limited games, but if you're drafting it'll still be last pick after you've determined if you're even using enough flashback to turn it into a useful draft pick.
I think this would make for a fun mechanic with a Form of the Dragon deck. And I love the shout-out to Platinum Emperion found in one post, the nearly unplayable creature that's still in Standard.
Because of phyrexian mana, there are 6 cards (by my count) that can be spammed to get you down to 4 or 5 life instantly - Hex Parasite, Lashwrithe, and all of the "Souleaters" except for the white-mana Blinding Souleater. And there are a few cards outside of Standard, too, such as Wall of Blood. So if Fateful Hour brings along some cards that can win the game for you quickly, it could find its way into some Standard decks.
However, because infect is still to be found in Standard (unless Undying becomes too prevalent to keep using it), you may find it extremely difficult to make use of cards with this mechanic. I'm currently pessimistic about it, but the right cards could persuade me to embrace it.
When I see this card, I don't think of it in terms of a Johnny card. Sure, it's useful with Grimgrin and other sac outlets. But I love one comparison I saw above with Bloodghast - just like Bloodghast, it limits the strength of countering decks like U/W Tempo.
Who cares if this gets countered? You can bring it back later. Who cares if it gets Vapor Snagged? It's a cheap drop. It's "cast" when you bring it back, so it can ruin someone's ability to transform Innistrad's werewolves - and if you've played a draft or sealed block game, you've probably run into that frustration. And a playset of these bad boys will help each other find their way to the battlefield very cheaply.
It'll probably end up being a "sideboard only" card, but it's still got a lot of utility as an emergency help.
ill be looking up other card interactions with this in standard (other than hex parasite) when i get home. undying sounds like it can be abused
I agree. Sweeping the board with Black Sun's Zenith is a sort of Plague Wind if you control undying creatures. Infect creatures can't kill them (thus "undying", especially in Standard), and removing the counters isn't that difficult thanks to Scars block - Grim Affliction! Instill Infection! Carnifax Demon! Virulent Wound! Trigon of Corruption(!) and Necropede(!) are even playable in Monogreen. And it gives the user addition uses for Contagion Clasp while limiting the usefulness of his opponents' clasps.
I think it makes the near-useless Glistening Oil a good addition now and I agree with a poster before who mentioned its great fit in Kessig Run decks (thanks to it already having a perfect working with Slagstorm and its Haste). I think this card will be another chase uncommon similar to Path to Exile... it's just that good. And of course it's hard to predict the usefulness of other undying creatures, but I imagine this mechanic will completely reshape sideboards - you have to be prepared for it, especially if you're aiming to win with infect.
The cost is written wrong - the main page has it as "5WB" but the card pic shows that it's "5WU". I was pretty shocked when I saw this, too - A blue lifelinker??? There is a total of 4 blue lifelinkers so far. Double strike? Only 2 blue creatures.
So I would've assumed it was white and black, too.
Was expecting a heavy Jund Meta, turns out there were only about 5 Jund decks in the whole tourny. The rest was a mixture with a large turn out of ..ugh..Vampires.
Out of my 4 regular magic-playing friends, 2 of them play Vampires. I can tell you straight from them why it's so popular - it's inexpensive! Lands, the main expense of any deck not running Jace TMS or Baneslayer, aren't expensive in a Vampire Deck. Nighthawk, despite its huge popularity in Vampires and Grixis Control, is merely uncommon, as are its other staples like Gatekeeper and Hexmage. Vampire Nocturnus is still pricey, but not necessarily requiring a playset or even a showing. So because of our economy (I write this from the USA, but unless you're in China I imagine you agree) a cheap deck like Vampires will be seen a lot.
I love UWx, but a playset of Glacial Fortresses, Celestial Colonnades, Day of Judgments, and Jace the Mind Sculptors (don't even get me started) set me back quite a bit. I don't expect in my FNMs to make a positive EV off them.
It's not unthinkable. Remember when Lorwyn introduced Planeswalkers, and everyone ran Pithing Needle (re-introduced in 10th edition) in their sideboards? This is similar. Sure, it's unlikely to be banned (any more likely than it was for Pithing Needle to get banned), but it's safe to say that anyone not using graveyard strategies will want 4 (or 2 and some Trinket Mages).
BTW, since it is comparable to Pithing Needle in usefulness, I'd say it may very well reach the same price Pithing Needle did ($15-20) while Standard-legal.
What a great demonstration of exactly how easy you can get overpowered with the new Sorin and this new land. Black and white (especially white) have no shortage of cheap token making cards in Standard, and this land - even while you have very few tokens out - can allow you to swing for devastating amounts.
I like this land in Standard, but I'd rather have one for my commander deck
You strike me as one of those players who says "Sure Baneslayer is strong, but it dies so easily to Doom Blade." This is, you mock the weaknesses of cards (and probably other things) to feed your ego.
Trolling warning issued for the above paragraph. -viper
Standard has plenty of mana-fixing options at the moment, especially if you're running green (there are 2 sets of dual lands with the friendly colors - red and white, and 1 set of dual lands for black and blue). Sphere of the Suns and Manalith are both still in Standard. What makes you think 3 mana symbols out of 5 makes it so difficult to play?
Green just gained a new vigilant creature, which makes a total of 8 monogreen creatures now that have vigilance or can gain it through their own abilities (none of which are in Standard). And I'd happily play a 5/4 vigilant trampler for 5, which means I'd definitely play one that's hard to kill and nearly impossible to kill with infect. So please save the pessimism, and recognize the features this card has which are worthwhile.
You seem to be a Standard-Constructed-Only player, I would assume. If you drafted this, you know how valuable it would be? There is very little creature removal in draft games, and it's only a 1/1 by itself but it really is as strong as your opponent's strongest creature since it will soon be yours.
I relish the thought of using it in a Commander deck. If you haven't played this format, it's littered with Eldrazi, and creature theft that can't be removed (like an enchantment) is rare. Besides this, there's Dominate, Riptide Entrancer, Thalakos Deceiver, Bribery, Blatant Thievery, Govern the Guildless, and Memnarch - that's it... and only Memnarch allows you to pull it off more than once. It's a more valuable card than you think... just look outside your particular format.
That's too bad. However, it does work if your creatures haven't already "undied".
It's versatile. It creates lifelinkers as chump blockers, so you can survive longer. The big ability, which only takes 2 turns to build up to, allows you to blow up opposing creatures to kill your opponents with. If your opponent isn't playing creatures or planeswalkers, you can just build up your own unblocked creatures to win with. It's very defensive and offensive.
It's awesome without being broken (in my humble opinion). I wouldn't say I'm "bonkers over this", but I am excited.
Fateful hour may also give you some nice utilities, but it's too early to say.
Well... it's technically mana acceleration, but as you said, it's too restrictive. Even in a deck with nothing but flashback spells, lands, and a playset of these, you still have 3 cards in your deck that this can't help cast (the other 3 Altars)! And you could be running Manalith instead, which would still provide you with mana of any color for flashback cards or your other Manaliths, would not enter tapped, and still cost the same amount. It's not necessarily a bad card, but with a better alternative right there in standard, I can't see anyone bothering with this card. It might see play in block or limited games, but if you're drafting it'll still be last pick after you've determined if you're even using enough flashback to turn it into a useful draft pick.
Because of phyrexian mana, there are 6 cards (by my count) that can be spammed to get you down to 4 or 5 life instantly - Hex Parasite, Lashwrithe, and all of the "Souleaters" except for the white-mana Blinding Souleater. And there are a few cards outside of Standard, too, such as Wall of Blood. So if Fateful Hour brings along some cards that can win the game for you quickly, it could find its way into some Standard decks.
However, because infect is still to be found in Standard (unless Undying becomes too prevalent to keep using it), you may find it extremely difficult to make use of cards with this mechanic. I'm currently pessimistic about it, but the right cards could persuade me to embrace it.
Who cares if this gets countered? You can bring it back later. Who cares if it gets Vapor Snagged? It's a cheap drop. It's "cast" when you bring it back, so it can ruin someone's ability to transform Innistrad's werewolves - and if you've played a draft or sealed block game, you've probably run into that frustration. And a playset of these bad boys will help each other find their way to the battlefield very cheaply.
It'll probably end up being a "sideboard only" card, but it's still got a lot of utility as an emergency help.
I agree. Sweeping the board with Black Sun's Zenith is a sort of Plague Wind if you control undying creatures. Infect creatures can't kill them (thus "undying", especially in Standard), and removing the counters isn't that difficult thanks to Scars block - Grim Affliction! Instill Infection! Carnifax Demon! Virulent Wound! Trigon of Corruption(!) and Necropede(!) are even playable in Monogreen. And it gives the user addition uses for Contagion Clasp while limiting the usefulness of his opponents' clasps.
I think it makes the near-useless Glistening Oil a good addition now and I agree with a poster before who mentioned its great fit in Kessig Run decks (thanks to it already having a perfect working with Slagstorm and its Haste). I think this card will be another chase uncommon similar to Path to Exile... it's just that good. And of course it's hard to predict the usefulness of other undying creatures, but I imagine this mechanic will completely reshape sideboards - you have to be prepared for it, especially if you're aiming to win with infect.
So I would've assumed it was white and black, too.
Out of my 4 regular magic-playing friends, 2 of them play Vampires. I can tell you straight from them why it's so popular - it's inexpensive! Lands, the main expense of any deck not running Jace TMS or Baneslayer, aren't expensive in a Vampire Deck. Nighthawk, despite its huge popularity in Vampires and Grixis Control, is merely uncommon, as are its other staples like Gatekeeper and Hexmage. Vampire Nocturnus is still pricey, but not necessarily requiring a playset or even a showing. So because of our economy (I write this from the USA, but unless you're in China I imagine you agree) a cheap deck like Vampires will be seen a lot.
I love UWx, but a playset of Glacial Fortresses, Celestial Colonnades, Day of Judgments, and Jace the Mind Sculptors (don't even get me started) set me back quite a bit. I don't expect in my FNMs to make a positive EV off them.