Well that looks do-able. I actually have most of that list on hand except the Ob Nixes and a few cheapies. Ob Nix ain't cheap in my local market though.
I'd be a little sad if I didn't run Scrib Nibblers for at least a trial. Is it a common thing for draft virgins to desperately want to craft a deck around a neat combo they drafted? If it won games, especially? Either way, sentimentality will perish in the face of logic.
That could sure work, because it wouldn't just be reusing the land's trigger, it'd mean an extra mill per Nibbler, an extra Journey per Angel, etc., and a nice blocker to boot.
Could put these in as well as some Khalni Gems to ensure dropping a land each and every turn. More if it splashed Green for Explore.
Dang, this is looking like fun to play, but I'm already thinking it'll be too slow to compete, may be relegated forver to casual.
So that's the basis of what I'm looking to do.
The Ruin Ghosts bounce either the Pirhanas or the Crossroads every turn to either gain life or deal damage as the situation requires. The Angel and Crawler are removal every time the Ghosts fire off. With a couple of Ghosts out, the Scrib Nibblers can mill opponent 3 times a turn each (4 if you draw a land).
Marsh Flats are a bit beyond budget, unless this gets looking competitive. The advantages there are painfully obvious.
So how's it look? What would you put in to fill out the rest of the deck? Disfigure for cheap early removal that can stack with the Crawlers later to clean up fatties? Whispersilk Cloak to protect the Angel?
And is there anything you could put in the 1-drop slot that leads into the main strat, or would you throw in some cheap blockers at the shallow of the curve?
Played my first ever draft last night at the Worldwake prerelease and finished 4th in a WW/WW/WW. Had an interesting time with Scrib Nibblers combo with Ruin Ghost for a surprisingly effective milling engine. Caustic Crawler was my bomb as it syched off the mill combo for sustainable free removal.
I'm tempted to make a standard deck based around it. The Crawler would have to go though, sadly, it was oustanding in limited but won't cut constructed (if only its ability was on a 1/1 for 2B or something)
The Warped Devotion is the main thing I'm troubled by dropping. Counterspell is non-essential and easily replaceable, as is Capsize.
Dromar's Cavern was already a stand-in for Watery Grave when I've got the cash to invest in a few.
I justed picked up a Quest For The Nihil Stone in a pre-release draft, and considering working that in.
So what's the best way to go for replacing the Warped Devotion in Extended? It's a fairly vital card to this deck's strategy, but I'm confident there'll be a way around it.
Any thoughts?
Note this will also be my first foray into 1.X, so I'm not too familiar with the competitive archetypes, is there much in the meta I'd need to address in this build?
Hmm there are Enchantress decks of that kind played in the Legacy format. I think they use Argothian Enchantress and Enchantress's Presence- I don't know if that's in your budget.
I looked at those cards, and they are out of budget for the moment, but that's the beautiful thing about Legacy - you can spend the money to turn a strong casual into an entry-level Legacy later on.
Now we're talking. Utopia Sprawl can straight away replace the Fertile Grounds. Serra's Sanctum probably a little pricey and the only thing I'd really need to pump that much mana into is the Sigils. Solitary Confinement ... well I can't see how I could pass that over. Especially using the Sterling Grove to tutor for it.
If you want to use Rancor, you could use Auratog in conjunction to make an arbitrarily large atog :D.
I'm a big fan of Distress as well as Duress. For an extra B you can hit a creature. Ideally, first-turn Duress followed by second-turn Distress puts a huge halt on any opponent's early play.
This is just an embryo of an idea at the moment, so no decklist just yet.
What I'm looking to put together is something that uses a lot of enchantments for control/damage and keeps card advantage by playing a few enchantresses to draw cards whenever I play enchantments.
Here's a sort of list of cards I'm looking at using. I don't really play white at all so there's probably better options out there for most of what I'm wanting to do.
Ah, whoops. Warped Devotion is in the deck, but I missed it posting the list. Picked up 4 Nyxathids after Thrax's suggestion, so the deck is now physically:
Capsize would be a good fit, I might grab a few and trial them out. Costing 3 for a bounce even without paying the buyback is a bit iffy for me though. It's sustainable bouncing, and I considered Nightscape Master for the same reason, but this deck seems to win* or die by about turn six. In practice, I tend to have a couple of spectres out by then and a hand full of 1-2 mana instants so I can cast more than one a turn if need be.
*Or rather take complete control, even if it takes a few more swings with the specters to finish the job.
Any particular reason why? I want to be able to deal with early creature-based combos before they hit the field too. Ah wait, first-turn Duress. Maybe I should use both?
Funny, I've been resisting the urge to put it in, because it's such an obvious choice in any black or mostly-black deck. But the one thing this deck is doing perfectly at the moment is mana base. Playing a tapland first turn, so by turns 3-4 the deck can perform any of its functions. The only card that costs more than 4 is the Tar Fiend which I'm 90% sure I'm going to cut.
That being said, I might trial some Dark Rits anyway, see if it opens up a strat I hadn't considered.
maybe you want to add some of these cards:
+3 Counterspell
Fair point. There's only one because I only have one, but I will add at least one more when I can. The counter in this deck is mostly just to protect the specters from instants, and Confound does that without UU and with card advantage.
+ cut the harpy, tar fiend and abyssal nocturnus gives u 7 free slots. nocturnus gets +2/+2 only after damage is dealt with specters adn doesn't swing in big.
The Tar Fiend is an obvious cut now you mention it. The Abyssal Nocturnus doesn't combo with the specters but it does synergise with the rest of the deck. Say I Recoil something with Warped Devotion out, if they had two cards in hand that makes the Nocturnus a 6/6 with fear before the specters even swing. I'm sure there's something better I can use in their place, but it'd want to be pretty decent.
+ may be add a better bounce than unsummon. Into the Roil gives you some card advantage while bouncing a permanent for example a stupid Planeswalker which you can't deal with otherwise.
It's hard to look past Unsummon when in a discard deck essentially makes it a U instant kill, but Into the Roil does look nice. Worth considering for sure.
The wishlist for this deck is more specters when I can get my hands on them (looking for Doomsday Specter at the moment, since it can hit lands from the hand too), any other suggestions for creatures that would synergise (and cost 4 or less total mana)?
Yavimaya granger isn't exactly a powerhouse, as kyonu pointed out. Echo hurts, especially if the guy you're playing against has instant-speed removal. I'd replace him with something. Wood elves is certainly an option. You could also go with sakura-tribe elder.
The grangers are pretty much standing in for a couple more Wood Elves when I get hold of them. I don't mind the grangers though, echo in a card like this just means you get to choose what the disadvantage is (card advantage/mana curve) by the game conditions.
Living terrain and desert twister seem kind of underwhelming. Yes the twister's green removal and we all like that but it also costs six. Rampaging baloths also costs six. Unless your metagame's got a lot of really insane cards that you have to kill, and considering your deck's theme, I'm kinda hoping that you'd rather draw the creature over the kill spell like 99% of the time.
Living Terrain is really a placeholder. It's a card I love to death, and it does have the use in this deck of making an alternate function for spare forests. But it won't make the final cut. The twisters are just an insurance policy for planeswalkers or big enchantments I can't otherwise deal with. You're dead right about playing the creature instead most of the time though.
I'm a huge fan of silverglade elemental. Gotta say that. It's really efficient and has a funny habit of getting the job done in most of the decks I throw it into.
It's usually pretty good, being very cost-effective, although most of the time jumping from 5 to 6 on the curve is a bit moot. But in this deck it's never a waste to throw a land.
Also, consider battlewand oak. If you're using harrow and other land fetch/recursion to get down 2+ forests a turn, how big do you think this guy can get?
Mate you are spot on with that one. I hadn't heard of it before, and I think that's worth getting four of now. At 2c it'll fit perfectly into the curve to start taking advantage of land-drops before the Baloths hit the ground.
Cheers for the help! I'm testing the deck as it is against a new field tonight. I'll let you know how it goes before and after some of your suggested changes.
This deck at its current stage is fairly straightforward, force discard, destroy early threats with disfigure and smother until the specters begin to dance and keep the opponent top-decking. Protect the specters with counter and bounce anything they manage to play (with Warped Devotion turning bounce essentially into cheap destroy).
I'd be a little sad if I didn't run Scrib Nibblers for at least a trial. Is it a common thing for draft virgins to desperately want to craft a deck around a neat combo they drafted? If it won games, especially? Either way, sentimentality will perish in the face of logic.
Could put these in as well as some Khalni Gems to ensure dropping a land each and every turn. More if it splashed Green for Explore.
Dang, this is looking like fun to play, but I'm already thinking it'll be too slow to compete, may be relegated forver to casual.
? Swamp
4 Pirhana Marsh
4 Kabiri Crossroads
4 Scrib Nibblers
4 Admonition Angel
4 Caustic Crawler
So that's the basis of what I'm looking to do.
The Ruin Ghosts bounce either the Pirhanas or the Crossroads every turn to either gain life or deal damage as the situation requires. The Angel and Crawler are removal every time the Ghosts fire off. With a couple of Ghosts out, the Scrib Nibblers can mill opponent 3 times a turn each (4 if you draw a land).
Ob Nixilis could go in as an alternate win.
Marsh Flats are a bit beyond budget, unless this gets looking competitive. The advantages there are painfully obvious.
So how's it look? What would you put in to fill out the rest of the deck? Disfigure for cheap early removal that can stack with the Crawlers later to clean up fatties? Whispersilk Cloak to protect the Angel?
And is there anything you could put in the 1-drop slot that leads into the main strat, or would you throw in some cheap blockers at the shallow of the curve?
Splash another colour even?
Any feedback would rock my world. Cheers.
I'm tempted to make a standard deck based around it. The Crawler would have to go though, sadly, it was oustanding in limited but won't cut constructed (if only its ability was on a 1/1 for 2B or something)
The deck as it currently stands:
2 Dromar's Cavern
1 Drowned Catacomb
4 Jwar Island Refuge
4 Salt Marsh
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Hypnotic Specter
2 Blizzard Specter
2 Shimian Specter
2 Guul Draz Specter
4 Nyxathid
2 Confound
1 Counterspell
3 Disfigure
4 Recoil
2 Smother
4 Unsummon
4 Distress
2 Capsize
2 Into The Roil
2 Doom Blade
The Warped Devotion is the main thing I'm troubled by dropping. Counterspell is non-essential and easily replaceable, as is Capsize.
Dromar's Cavern was already a stand-in for Watery Grave when I've got the cash to invest in a few.
I justed picked up a Quest For The Nihil Stone in a pre-release draft, and considering working that in.
So what's the best way to go for replacing the Warped Devotion in Extended? It's a fairly vital card to this deck's strategy, but I'm confident there'll be a way around it.
Any thoughts?
Note this will also be my first foray into 1.X, so I'm not too familiar with the competitive archetypes, is there much in the meta I'd need to address in this build?
I looked at those cards, and they are out of budget for the moment, but that's the beautiful thing about Legacy - you can spend the money to turn a strong casual into an entry-level Legacy later on.
Now we're talking. Utopia Sprawl can straight away replace the Fertile Grounds. Serra's Sanctum probably a little pricey and the only thing I'd really need to pump that much mana into is the Sigils. Solitary Confinement ... well I can't see how I could pass that over. Especially using the Sterling Grove to tutor for it.
G: Auratog gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
Hehe.
Thanks, I'll start tinkering a list together.
What I'm looking to put together is something that uses a lot of enchantments for control/damage and keeps card advantage by playing a few enchantresses to draw cards whenever I play enchantments.
Here's a sort of list of cards I'm looking at using. I don't really play white at all so there's probably better options out there for most of what I'm wanting to do.
Card Draw
Mesa Enchantress
Verduran Enchantress
Fun Bomb Enchatments
Luminarch Ascension
Beastmaster Ascension
Sigil Of The Empty Throne
Control Enchantments
Prison Term
Oblivion Ring
Shackles
Mana Accel Enchantments
Wild Growth
Fertile Ground
Aggro
Yavimaya Enchantress
Rancor
So what I'm asking for at this stage is to throw some synergy suggestions at me so I can come up with a list.
Budget-wise I'm thinking $50-100, I'm expecting a good chunk of that will have to go into investing in some Temple Gardens and Sunpetal Groves though.
2 Dromar's Cavern
1 Drowned Catacomb
4 Jwar Island Refuge
4 Salt Marsh
2 Cavern Harpy
4 Nyxathid
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Hypnotic Specter
2 Blizzard Specter
2 Shimian Specter
2 Confound
1 Counterspell
2 Disfigure
4 Recoil
4 Smother
4 Unsummon
4 Distress
Capsize would be a good fit, I might grab a few and trial them out. Costing 3 for a bounce even without paying the buyback is a bit iffy for me though. It's sustainable bouncing, and I considered Nightscape Master for the same reason, but this deck seems to win* or die by about turn six. In practice, I tend to have a couple of spectres out by then and a hand full of 1-2 mana instants so I can cast more than one a turn if need be.
*Or rather take complete control, even if it takes a few more swings with the specters to finish the job.
Any particular reason why? I want to be able to deal with early creature-based combos before they hit the field too. Ah wait, first-turn Duress. Maybe I should use both?
Funny, I've been resisting the urge to put it in, because it's such an obvious choice in any black or mostly-black deck. But the one thing this deck is doing perfectly at the moment is mana base. Playing a tapland first turn, so by turns 3-4 the deck can perform any of its functions. The only card that costs more than 4 is the Tar Fiend which I'm 90% sure I'm going to cut.
That being said, I might trial some Dark Rits anyway, see if it opens up a strat I hadn't considered.
Fair point. There's only one because I only have one, but I will add at least one more when I can. The counter in this deck is mostly just to protect the specters from instants, and Confound does that without UU and with card advantage.
The Tar Fiend is an obvious cut now you mention it. The Abyssal Nocturnus doesn't combo with the specters but it does synergise with the rest of the deck. Say I Recoil something with Warped Devotion out, if they had two cards in hand that makes the Nocturnus a 6/6 with fear before the specters even swing. I'm sure there's something better I can use in their place, but it'd want to be pretty decent.
It's hard to look past Unsummon when in a discard deck essentially makes it a U instant kill, but Into the Roil does look nice. Worth considering for sure.
The wishlist for this deck is more specters when I can get my hands on them (looking for Doomsday Specter at the moment, since it can hit lands from the hand too), any other suggestions for creatures that would synergise (and cost 4 or less total mana)?
The grangers are pretty much standing in for a couple more Wood Elves when I get hold of them. I don't mind the grangers though, echo in a card like this just means you get to choose what the disadvantage is (card advantage/mana curve) by the game conditions.
Living Terrain is really a placeholder. It's a card I love to death, and it does have the use in this deck of making an alternate function for spare forests. But it won't make the final cut. The twisters are just an insurance policy for planeswalkers or big enchantments I can't otherwise deal with. You're dead right about playing the creature instead most of the time though.
It's usually pretty good, being very cost-effective, although most of the time jumping from 5 to 6 on the curve is a bit moot. But in this deck it's never a waste to throw a land.
Mate you are spot on with that one. I hadn't heard of it before, and I think that's worth getting four of now. At 2c it'll fit perfectly into the curve to start taking advantage of land-drops before the Baloths hit the ground.
Cheers for the help! I'm testing the deck as it is against a new field tonight. I'll let you know how it goes before and after some of your suggested changes.
8 Swamp
2 Dromar's Cavern
1 Drowned Catacomb
4 Jwar Island Refuge
2 Salt Marsh
1 Tar Fiend
4 Abyssal Nocturnus
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Hypnotic Specter
2 Blizzard Specter
2 Shimian Specter
1 Counterspell
2 Disfigure
4 Recoil
4 Smother
4 Unsummon
4 Distress
This deck at its current stage is fairly straightforward, force discard, destroy early threats with disfigure and smother until the specters begin to dance and keep the opponent top-decking. Protect the specters with counter and bounce anything they manage to play (with Warped Devotion turning bounce essentially into cheap destroy).
Any comments and critique would be great! Thanks!