question: how do people feel about reveillark or protean hulk in the lists? i'm not running either of them.... am i wrong to discount them?
The interesting thing about Kiki Pod is that even though it's considered the "bigger" version of Melira Pod, it doesn't want any pod targets at 5 or 6 that aren't combo pieces, generally. The number of times you would want to pod into Reveillark versus the number of times you'd rather just have a Kiki-Jiki is so small that it's not worth a slot.
Protean hulk follows a similar line of logic. By the time you can cast this card (there's no cards on 6 to pod into it) and win with it, you could've probably won in many other ways. Of course there are times when protean hulk is exactly the card you need, but that case is again so marginal that it's not worth a slot.
Dude blocks not only Smiter, but monstruous Fleecemane Lion, Blood Baron of Vizkopa (which practically kills you, you have 0 ways of removing it or blocking), Boros Reckoner, Voice and its tokens and so on. It's stellar in every matchup, can act as a finisher and even as a late game mana sink. You might also want some number of Mizzium Mortars somewhere in the 75 for Blood Baron.
Sorry, but I don't think I communicated my issues with Stormbreath clearly.
The card is a 4/4 flying for 5 when you're behind on board.
It trades with Smiter.
It chump blocks monstrous Fleecemane Lion.
It trades with Boros Reckoner.
It trumps Voice and tokens.
On the other hand, both Demon and Reaper have much better bodies.
They trump smiter.
They trump monstrous Fleecemane Lion
They trade with Boros Reckoner.
They trump Voice and tokens.
The advantages of replacing some number of either Demon or Reaper for Dragon are:
1. Dragon blocks Blood Baron.
2. Dragon closes out games faster.
Blood Baron is an obvious silver bullet for this deck that I had not considered. I believe that it does indeed require some number of Mizzium Mortars or Stormbreaths then.
This deck approaches midrange with a heavy control perspective and aims to maximize the value of Anger of the Gods. So far, I find the deck to be very synergistic and smooth to pilot. However, the one gripe I have is the (non-)interaction between spot removal and Chandra in certain situations.
I feel like some number of Stormbreath Dragons may be correct here, but I don't think they're better than Demon or Reaper. Stormbreath does best in a deck whose goal is to close out the game. This deck's goal is to drown the opponent in value while maintaining a solid defense. Tapping out on 5 for a Stormbreath that doesn't block cards such as Loxodon Smiter very well is a relative liability.
I'm also not sure whether I want Putrefy or Hero's Downfall. Putrefy is marginally easier to cast and we already have Dreadbore, which is why I've put it in the list to start. However, if Planeswalkers become problems then Hero's Downfall may need to take its place. Either way, the removal package can be tweaked depending on the expected metagame.
Looking at the sideboard, we have a total of 12 cards that interact poorly with hard control (non-dreadbore spot removal). We can board in nearly the entire sideboard against the 2 Aetherling control builds. Abrupt decay is great here as it hits Ashiok and Detention Sphere. An argument can be made for slaughter games in the board, as I don't believe this deck can beat Aetherling very easily.
Against aggro, we are already relatively favored due to 4 mainboard Anger of the Gods. However, the board of -2 Rakdos -1 Vraska -3 Putrefy +4 Deathrite +2 Abrupt Decay can be good here. Golgari Charm can also be brought in in place of Abrupt Decay if Burning Earth is expected.
I have dismissed the possibility of a Domri build because as far as I am concerned, Domri just performs better in Naya - they have better creatures. I certainly think that a Domri Jund build is fine, but it is outclassed by the Naya build no matter how I look at it.
Well, first of all, Nighthawk much more easily kills bigger stuff. I suppose in the Mirror this isn't an issue because we're basically talking about Hellkites and Olivia here. But I was mostly thinking from the perspective of Nighthawk actually killing stuff it damages (via blocking or attacking) where as Avenger can only kill things through combat and then surviving by regenerating.
Why do you need more removal in the mirror? The mirror is a huge grind already due to decks running more answers than threats.
I don't see the benefit of running this card. I don't feel like we're short playables. Why lose 2 mana's worth of tempo on this card when you can just play more creatures/lands?
Not to mention, this card has the potential to miss in removal heavy builds, which again decreases its viability. I consider netting a land as missing.
I'm running 3 side to beat detention spheres, oblivion rings, and as strictly better dreadbores. The card is awesome but I would never want it main deck, as targets that are must-remove are almost always over 3 cmc.
There is just no reason to play a fragile card like noble over deathrite shaman. Deathrite shaman is a must-answer and absolutely destroys snapcaster mage and does collateral damage against zombies. Noble just seems to be worse than that card in both matchups. Not to mention, the mirror isn't very good for that card either.
I am currently running a 1/2 split of Staff of Nin/Underworld Connections for the mirror. I don't think it is very likely that you will lose after resolving staff of nin.
Match 1: G/W stuff.
New player, not very familiar with the game, no interactions. 2-0.
Match 2: Bant control.
Game 1 was a stalemate, with both parties packing more answers than threats and holding the correct answers at the correct times. I won because my opponent drew off of Sphinx's revelation and decked out.
Game 2 was a turn 4 slaughter games from me, naming Angel of Serenity, since that is the biggest board swing the opponent could play. I managed to hit an angel in his hand, and then resolve a Rakdos's Return for his entire hand. He was unable to answer my Thragtusk in topdeck mode.
Match 3: Bant midrange
Game 1 was incredibly long, with both players going over 30 life. Eventually I won the board with 2-for-1s and a giant Rakdos's return for X=16.
Game 2 I resolved slaughter games again, naming angel of serenity, since the opponent kept double land off of turn 4 jace. His hand was land, land, dissipate, angel. He then jaces again, keeping dissipate thragtusk over tamiyo and tapping out for Tusk. I rakdos away his hand and win the rest of the game off of 2 tusks and a keyrune.
Match 4: Esper control ft. drownyards
Game 1 was drawn out, but he ran out of answers for my resolved huntmaster and was unable to race me with drownyard. I had about 20 cards left in my library at the end of the game.
Game 2 he took a mulligan to 5 and was unable to answer my threats again. Huntmaster was an all star in this game too.
Match 5: UW Humans
Game 1 he lost to huntmaster flips and removal. I don't believe he had a mainboard answer to huntmaster that wasn't "force the opponent to block"
Game 2 he had a nuts start with 12 power over 4 creatures on turn 3: Silverblade + War Falcon, War Falcon, Champion. I play golgari charm on his attack step for the blowout, reducing a 12 damage attack to 2. I then proceed to stabilize with 2 thragtusks and take the game.
The tempo loss on this card is huge. Also, if you board this in against control (probably its best matchup), you still run the risk of having the relevant spell exiled (oring, detsphere, syncopate, dissipate)
Well, I just came back from a 3-0-1 finish at FNM.
I have to say, what I learned most about this deck today is that Deathrite Shaman is a beast out of the board against zombies and decks with flashback.
1. Against zombies, you are exiling creatures for value. Incidentally, you get lifegain which is relevant in the matchup since you're the control.
2. Against control, you are exiling spells for value. Incidentally, you get to deal damage to their dome which is relevant since you're the beatdown.
I highly recommend trying this card. A turn 1 Deathrite Shaman has not failed me yet.
Seems like it's not worth a card, but I think you really have to test it against the specific matchup to be sure. I can MAYBE see a use for it in like, frites.
Recently in my testing, Bloodline Keeper has been a total champ. I really like this card, as once you untap with it, you're pretty much invincible. In current standard, it has won me multiple games against naya pod (I play zombie pod). In rotation standard (Jund Midrange), I've shut out so many aggressive decks with bloodline keeper, as he is pure card advantage.
Furthermore, it is often possible to trick your opponents to swing in, let it through, then vampire up, drop a vampire from your hand, flip, and swing for lethal.
Overall, this card feels extremely solid. Has anyone else at least been testing it?
The interesting thing about Kiki Pod is that even though it's considered the "bigger" version of Melira Pod, it doesn't want any pod targets at 5 or 6 that aren't combo pieces, generally. The number of times you would want to pod into Reveillark versus the number of times you'd rather just have a Kiki-Jiki is so small that it's not worth a slot.
Protean hulk follows a similar line of logic. By the time you can cast this card (there's no cards on 6 to pod into it) and win with it, you could've probably won in many other ways. Of course there are times when protean hulk is exactly the card you need, but that case is again so marginal that it's not worth a slot.
Sorry, but I don't think I communicated my issues with Stormbreath clearly.
The card is a 4/4 flying for 5 when you're behind on board.
It trades with Smiter.
It chump blocks monstrous Fleecemane Lion.
It trades with Boros Reckoner.
It trumps Voice and tokens.
On the other hand, both Demon and Reaper have much better bodies.
They trump smiter.
They trump monstrous Fleecemane Lion
They trade with Boros Reckoner.
They trump Voice and tokens.
The advantages of replacing some number of either Demon or Reaper for Dragon are:
1. Dragon blocks Blood Baron.
2. Dragon closes out games faster.
Blood Baron is an obvious silver bullet for this deck that I had not considered. I believe that it does indeed require some number of Mizzium Mortars or Stormbreaths then.
4 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Desecration Demon
Artifacts
2 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Whip of Erebos
Instants and Sorceries
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Read the Bones
2 Dreadbore
3 Putrefy
3 Doom Blade
2 Shock
2 Rakdos's Return
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Vraska the Unseen
Lands
4 Blood Crypt
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Stomping Ground
4 Rakdos Guildgate
3 Mountain
4 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Rakdos's Return
4 Thoughtseize
2 Underworld Connections
2 Golgari Charm
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Abrupt Decay
This deck approaches midrange with a heavy control perspective and aims to maximize the value of Anger of the Gods. So far, I find the deck to be very synergistic and smooth to pilot. However, the one gripe I have is the (non-)interaction between spot removal and Chandra in certain situations.
I feel like some number of Stormbreath Dragons may be correct here, but I don't think they're better than Demon or Reaper. Stormbreath does best in a deck whose goal is to close out the game. This deck's goal is to drown the opponent in value while maintaining a solid defense. Tapping out on 5 for a Stormbreath that doesn't block cards such as Loxodon Smiter very well is a relative liability.
I'm also not sure whether I want Putrefy or Hero's Downfall. Putrefy is marginally easier to cast and we already have Dreadbore, which is why I've put it in the list to start. However, if Planeswalkers become problems then Hero's Downfall may need to take its place. Either way, the removal package can be tweaked depending on the expected metagame.
Looking at the sideboard, we have a total of 12 cards that interact poorly with hard control (non-dreadbore spot removal). We can board in nearly the entire sideboard against the 2 Aetherling control builds. Abrupt decay is great here as it hits Ashiok and Detention Sphere. An argument can be made for slaughter games in the board, as I don't believe this deck can beat Aetherling very easily.
Against aggro, we are already relatively favored due to 4 mainboard Anger of the Gods. However, the board of -2 Rakdos -1 Vraska -3 Putrefy +4 Deathrite +2 Abrupt Decay can be good here. Golgari Charm can also be brought in in place of Abrupt Decay if Burning Earth is expected.
I have dismissed the possibility of a Domri build because as far as I am concerned, Domri just performs better in Naya - they have better creatures. I certainly think that a Domri Jund build is fine, but it is outclassed by the Naya build no matter how I look at it.
Why do you need more removal in the mirror? The mirror is a huge grind already due to decks running more answers than threats.
Not to mention, this card has the potential to miss in removal heavy builds, which again decreases its viability. I consider netting a land as missing.
3 Thragtusk
2 Bloodline Keeper
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Garruk Relentless
2 Vraska the Unseen
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Sever the Bloodline
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Rakdos's Return
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Farseek
3 Dreadbore
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Blood Crypt
2 Dragonskull Summit
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Swamp
3 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Rootbound Crag
2 Golgari Charm
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Dreadbore
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Slaughter Games
Match 1: G/W stuff.
New player, not very familiar with the game, no interactions. 2-0.
Match 2: Bant control.
Game 1 was a stalemate, with both parties packing more answers than threats and holding the correct answers at the correct times. I won because my opponent drew off of Sphinx's revelation and decked out.
Game 2 was a turn 4 slaughter games from me, naming Angel of Serenity, since that is the biggest board swing the opponent could play. I managed to hit an angel in his hand, and then resolve a Rakdos's Return for his entire hand. He was unable to answer my Thragtusk in topdeck mode.
Match 3: Bant midrange
Game 1 was incredibly long, with both players going over 30 life. Eventually I won the board with 2-for-1s and a giant Rakdos's return for X=16.
Game 2 I resolved slaughter games again, naming angel of serenity, since the opponent kept double land off of turn 4 jace. His hand was land, land, dissipate, angel. He then jaces again, keeping dissipate thragtusk over tamiyo and tapping out for Tusk. I rakdos away his hand and win the rest of the game off of 2 tusks and a keyrune.
Match 4: Esper control ft. drownyards
Game 1 was drawn out, but he ran out of answers for my resolved huntmaster and was unable to race me with drownyard. I had about 20 cards left in my library at the end of the game.
Game 2 he took a mulligan to 5 and was unable to answer my threats again. Huntmaster was an all star in this game too.
Match 5: UW Humans
Game 1 he lost to huntmaster flips and removal. I don't believe he had a mainboard answer to huntmaster that wasn't "force the opponent to block"
Game 2 he had a nuts start with 12 power over 4 creatures on turn 3: Silverblade + War Falcon, War Falcon, Champion. I play golgari charm on his attack step for the blowout, reducing a 12 damage attack to 2. I then proceed to stabilize with 2 thragtusks and take the game.
I have to say, what I learned most about this deck today is that Deathrite Shaman is a beast out of the board against zombies and decks with flashback.
1. Against zombies, you are exiling creatures for value. Incidentally, you get lifegain which is relevant in the matchup since you're the control.
2. Against control, you are exiling spells for value. Incidentally, you get to deal damage to their dome which is relevant since you're the beatdown.
I highly recommend trying this card. A turn 1 Deathrite Shaman has not failed me yet.
Furthermore, it is often possible to trick your opponents to swing in, let it through, then vampire up, drop a vampire from your hand, flip, and swing for lethal.
Overall, this card feels extremely solid. Has anyone else at least been testing it?