It's been doing alright. I would love to get more rabblemaster. Also with the current decks I've been seeing I'm leaning more towards dropping the MD loyalist. I really can't recommend the 0 non-land/non-goblin cards. Ringleader is insane like this. I agree that the wasteland/port build should have the vials, but since this build, for me at least, was just to play gobos while those were all in D&T I can say the decks can be played without them. Also I understand if you don't want 1-ofs in the deck, but leaving out Matron just all around is a mistake. with instigator you can drop her on the first trigger and grab a ringleader which doesn't take long to find and drop it off the second trigger. The biggest problem I've been having is the all basic mana base with no card sifters leaves me either mana flooded or mana screwed too often. Otherwise the deck runs fine. it laughs at board wipes and even going full rabbit and dropping 1-3 guys a turn I rarely have less than 3 goblins in hand. I've heard people complain in the past that rabblemaster and piledriver both fill the same slot but I'm telling you they play great together. As well as the two make it more likely for a lackey/instigator to get through.
I'm still kinda around. I have had alot of trouble finding people to play with. my wife will play me once in a while but never more than one game, and she really will only ever play Gosse. I personally love Reis, going all in cannon has been pretty intense, and in the few times I've gotten a game with other people has proven to be just amazing. I didn't keep my starter decks intact I pulled them apart and built my own. However as bLatch told me they are like 1/3 randomized any how. However because of that I have no clue what decks are balanced.
It's a great game so sit back and you two have some fun with it.
Hi Everyone,
First time poster on this forum. I have been playing Death and Taxes for about a year with some success (60% win rate life time at local events). Our legacy community is ever growing where I live and I am struggling more and more to achieve a higher win rate.
My local meta is pretty small. Lots of Miracles, lots of shardless, 1 or two storm, couple delver lists, couple brews.
I struggle continually with the miracles match up. I dont know if its my list or just my approach to the match up or both.
As for my approach I tend to be more of the aggressive side of the fence. I will admit to jamming creatures onto the board to establish myself as the aggro deck, only to get wrecked by a terminus (which is obviously a problem). However I somehow rationalize that this was correct as, again I am the aggro deck in this matchup. Should I grind the matchup out deploying 1 threat at a time? Should I deploy a few threats, wait for a terminus, then deploy the rest and hope not to get terminused again? Or should I be jamming?
Any help is appreciated. Comments and criticisms are welcome.
While I don't often play DnT, I did play goblins for years and this was a huge problem there too. when you're the aggro player against decks with board wipes like terminus, or even the non-permanent -x/-1 effects discussed right now it is entirely wrong to over extend yourself. endlessly jamming creatures might get you a lot of early pressure but it leaves you empty and top decking after a board wipe and a decent opponent will just walk all over you. Now on the flip side playing one threat at a time is equally wrong, most of the time. You won't have the proper pressure you need to win the game and you're just more playing into their control. You need to find the sweet spot of holding enough creatures to rebuild post board wipe while still maintaining enough board presence to control the board. Sadly when playing DnT we don't have a ringleader effect to just hold back and recover from the board wipe, so we need to ask ourselves before we play a creature "do we need this guy/gal on the field right now?" if not hold it. As a very loose guide in the beginning try to keep about half your creatures back in hand to prevent board wipes, and with practice you'll be able to know that balance when you're playing.
in addition to that try to find small plays to help out. Obviously if you're expecting a board wipe, try to tax them out of playing it as best you can. If you have a vial on 3 hold your flickerwisp so you can save an important creature. We run the equipment so any of these creatures can quickly become a threat make good use of them. Hope this all helps.
While I haven't tested peasant in a while I do love peasant slide and since Khans has given us mush stronger manabases I'd probably try something like this. though forgive me it's not selesnya it's junk.
I've always wanted to combine nightmare effect creatures with astral slide, and suture priest is so insane in slide. She can stall the game by keeping your heal up or just kill your opponent by blinking out their attackers. honestly let a slide deck get in full swing and have a copy or two of her and you can take down like 3-4 players all gunning for you.
I would probably cut down to the normal 18 lands and add the fourth stifle and a pierce/snare.
huh, I've read over RUG list for a while and never took the time to notice they only run 8 fetches. np, I'd just go +1 stifle, +2 spell pierce, -1 chain lightning, -2 wooded foothills. personally I like spell pierce over spell snare for an unknown meta. outside of DnT I don't know too many times spell pierce is dead. spell snare might always have targets, but I've had a few too many times it just sat in my hand waiting to be pitched to FoW.
Also I just noticed the post about Young Pyromancer (I apologize finals week has my mind fried.) honestly if I were to go that route I'd just stick to my current UR delver build. YP just fits better in a more aggro shell imo. I do like the idea of tossing in a True-name nemesis so I might go with something more like -2 werebear, +1 true-name nemesis, +1 scavenging ooze. only swapping the second werebear for an extra ooze because I don't like having that many one ofs, and sometimes my wife still plays dredge.
Rather than treat it as Legacy without reserved cards, it might be interesting to look at it as its own format. "Unreserved", we could call it. In particular, there's no reason it should keep the same banlist as Legacy. This is the list of cards currently banned in Legacy that aren't reserved.
It's possible not all of these cards would have to be banned, and the presence of these cards would give the format its own character.
While by no means putting down a format where we unban the non-reserved list cards, but if you make a format with sol ring, mind's desire, Mana crypt, and Mana vault you'd be looking at the most broken format by far even without duels, hell I'd be running 20 islands and playing the above laughing all the way. LOL
I agree with who ever said just reprint the 20ish cards that would separate this and modern. Of course then you'll see $200+ wasteland and Force of Wills and we'll be hearing how we need to bring those prices down too.
Hey, got a pretty dumb question, and I'm 99% sure I already know the answer. Is there any half decent thing to run in place of Tarmogoyfs? I've been picking up the stuff to be able to bounce between RUG and UR delver for about 3 years and have just never been able to find Tarms for trade. If not It's no big deal I'll just stick with my other stuff until I get them, but thought I'd at least ask.
Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and i'm testing the following list. I'm trying to build a sort of canadia without green. The strenght of this deck the semplicity, which I can play 3 Blood Moon in side. A 3rd turn Blood Moon can be a GG in a lot of matches.
Can you give some advise about this list please:
Main:
4 Delver
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 True-Name Nemesis
3 Young Pyromancer
I want to repeat that this is not a Burn deck, is more like a canadian, more tempo. So I decided to don't play Chain Lightning, however I decided to play Eidolon. He could put a great clock for the opponent, who try to close his tech or try to find answers to my threats.
Did someone test a list like this?
*Sorry for my english
So the only thing I'm seeing is eidolon will be hitting you pretty good too. Delver lists you have cantrips that will trigger him and frankly we don't want that. So I'd drop him. Personally I'd run 2 snapcaster mage in their place.
Also I've been seeing a lot of people talking about how awesome delver becomes with black vise. While I really don't see vise being insane in legacy I know I've dropped a few into my U/R sideboard. It seems to me what I want for match-up where I'm playing against someone who wants to play control vs. me. I drop my counter packages and side in 3 vise and a few other board cards. But then again I get to do almost no tournaments these days so I could be very wrong on that one.
1. What do you all think about Thunderous Wrath in addition to the Lightning Bolts, Chain Lightnings, and PoPs? With Ponder and Brainstorm, it seems pretty easy to set it up and 5 damage is a ton for 1 mana. It is, however, terrible if you draw them without a brainstorm.
2. What about playing 4 Spell Pierce instead of Force of Will? 4 Pierce and 2 Daze has been pretty effective for me so far, and I'm not sure how much I enjoy 2 for 1 ing myself. I know it is the most powerful counterspell, but I don't enjoy giving up that card advantage in this deck. What do y'all think?
1. I don't like it, it's alot of damage for 1 mana but I'm usually using my Brainstorm/ponders with fetches to get rid of things I don't want or set up a delver. While yeah I can set up a delver and a wrath together it seems like more work then I really want to put in when I'm just trying to be quick. That's my feelings of course as always I say try it out and let us know your results.
2. I've found more often then not I'll take Force of Will over daze. A late game Daze is just dead so often with this deck since we don't have mana denial, and even worse when Goblin Guide has been feeding them lands. I run 4 Force of Will and 2 Spell pierce at the moment and find unless I'm playing combo they are the first things I board. I guess you could try 3 force/3 pierce but since most of the time the things I really want to stop are creatures pierce just doesn't seem to help as much.
How will Dack Fayden look in this deck?
I mean, his +1 gives fuel for both Snapcaster and also draws cards.
His -2 can be used against decks that win with artifact cards, such as Imperial Painter, or MUD.
And his -6, well, it just utterly wrecks here with the Bolts and the such.
Personally I'm not liking it. while yeah the abilities are pretty relevant I'm not a fan of 3 drops in here. It's competing with snapcaster on that turn and a snapcaster is usually more versatile. but that's my thoughts, I've been wrong on these things before.
Also, my wife has picked up Death & Taxes, I've yet to beat it. While I don't mind getting stomped around the house it does make me worried about the match up out and about, what are some ways to deal with it? I've just been going with boarding out my counters for 2 sulfuric vortex, 2 smash to smithereens, and a pair of lava spikes. I've had some moderate success with switching over to the burn style, but it's not usually too long before it stabilizes or crushes me under my own vortex.
This has worked well for me, I can't say there have been too many times if any that I was off on the wrong color mana. I usually grab basics and only grab my duels when I need a red mana and have a misty or need a blue and have a foothills. I like this play style as it shuts off their wastelands, it protects me if I decide to be crazy and cast multiple Price of Progress. It also has the add bonus for some of you of being $600 cheaper, not the reason I choose it oddly enough, but it does make my wallet smile knowing this. If I were to tweak it I'd probably add a few more fetches, but even as is I'm happy.
Also I recommend coordinating your fetches, I have mine matching what you'd expect in RUG (originally done because I'm slowly working to get the stuff for RUG) I have caught a few people off guard with my lands with a few play choices making them think I'm playing RUG then catch them out of left field with a PoP for 6+. It's a little thing but it's got me at least 2 wins. Though this doesn't help too much with a small local meta where people know each other.
I've been running this deck since mid September. it started off as just as many counters as I could pack with some delvers, bolt, and goblin guides for aggro. (at the time my local meta was something like 80% combo and the heavy counters were amazing.) After my meta evened out I swapped to a similar list to what most people run from what I'm seeing here. I run the no stifle/waste build with Price of Progress/goblin guide. I've found the best creature base for me has been:
the only thing I often question is daze. I love it against combo, I like it early game, but when I hit one after about turn 3 it's usually just FoW food. what is every one else's opinion on it? I saw people find FoW to be one of the worse cards of the deck but I rarely if ever see one and don't want it and I run the full 4 main. My current counter package is:
Main:
I'm thinking about cutting a daze for a spell snare to try it out and if I like it dropping both for it, I feel like with Stoneforge Mystic being so popular it's strong and it plays nicer with snapcaster mage.
The other problem I'm having is what to do for Graveyard hate. I'm running Relic of Progenitus but with 4 snapcasters and 3 lavamancers they hurt me more then a little. I do like them because they're strong vs Tarmogoyf and Deathrite shaman but I'm pretty strong in most match ups I see those two in anyhow. I've thought about Grafdigger's cage and tormod's crypt but I'm not completely sold on either. I need the GY hate because there is a bit of dredge & loam stuff about and dredge particularly is a rough match up. any suggestions?
The Dark Depths / Thespian's Stage combo is a big problem here for my non-Wasteland Guide/PoP version. They can get that flying 20/20 token out very early and we don't have an answer for it. Perhaps switch out the Forked Bolt with Fire // Ice ? Vapor Snag would also be very nice in those situations.
Yeah I dropped the forked bolt for a fire // ice. I've not had any one pull off the depths combo on me but I can say I'm loving the Fire over forked bolt just for the instant speed. equipment is huge around my way and I've found myself a few times trying to pick the creature(s) to burn off while knowing Jitte/Cranial plating/Sword of ___ and ____ is just getting put on a different creature. being able to burn the creatures at instant speed helps alot. Though I do wonder the decks you face that have the depths combo can't you just burn them out with PoP quickly? I've got 3 main 1 sb with 4 snapcasters and most of the time I can get 2 PoP off for the kill on those decks before they can get the pieces together.
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Legion Loyalist
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 warren instigator
4 goblin matron
1 goblin Rabblemaster
1 goblin sharpshooter
3 gempalm Incinerator
4 goblin warchief
4 goblin chieftain
4 goblin ringleader
20 Mountain
1 legion loyalist
2 blood moon
4 goblin king
1 sparksmith
2 goblin sharpshooter
2 krenko, mob boss
1 tuktuk scrapper
2 stingscourger
It's been doing alright. I would love to get more rabblemaster. Also with the current decks I've been seeing I'm leaning more towards dropping the MD loyalist. I really can't recommend the 0 non-land/non-goblin cards. Ringleader is insane like this. I agree that the wasteland/port build should have the vials, but since this build, for me at least, was just to play gobos while those were all in D&T I can say the decks can be played without them. Also I understand if you don't want 1-ofs in the deck, but leaving out Matron just all around is a mistake. with instigator you can drop her on the first trigger and grab a ringleader which doesn't take long to find and drop it off the second trigger. The biggest problem I've been having is the all basic mana base with no card sifters leaves me either mana flooded or mana screwed too often. Otherwise the deck runs fine. it laughs at board wipes and even going full rabbit and dropping 1-3 guys a turn I rarely have less than 3 goblins in hand. I've heard people complain in the past that rabblemaster and piledriver both fill the same slot but I'm telling you they play great together. As well as the two make it more likely for a lackey/instigator to get through.
It's a great game so sit back and you two have some fun with it.
While I don't often play DnT, I did play goblins for years and this was a huge problem there too. when you're the aggro player against decks with board wipes like terminus, or even the non-permanent -x/-1 effects discussed right now it is entirely wrong to over extend yourself. endlessly jamming creatures might get you a lot of early pressure but it leaves you empty and top decking after a board wipe and a decent opponent will just walk all over you. Now on the flip side playing one threat at a time is equally wrong, most of the time. You won't have the proper pressure you need to win the game and you're just more playing into their control. You need to find the sweet spot of holding enough creatures to rebuild post board wipe while still maintaining enough board presence to control the board. Sadly when playing DnT we don't have a ringleader effect to just hold back and recover from the board wipe, so we need to ask ourselves before we play a creature "do we need this guy/gal on the field right now?" if not hold it. As a very loose guide in the beginning try to keep about half your creatures back in hand to prevent board wipes, and with practice you'll be able to know that balance when you're playing.
in addition to that try to find small plays to help out. Obviously if you're expecting a board wipe, try to tax them out of playing it as best you can. If you have a vial on 3 hold your flickerwisp so you can save an important creature. We run the equipment so any of these creatures can quickly become a threat make good use of them. Hope this all helps.
4 secluded steppe
4 tranquil thicket
4 barren moor
3 Scoured Barrens
3 jungle Hollow
3 blossoming sands
2 swamp
2 plains
2 forest
1 tormented existence
1 eternal witness
3 tilling treefolk
2 chittering rats
2 faceless butchers
4 Krosan Tusker
2 centaur healer
2 essence warden
4 suture priest
2 mesmeric fiend
4 street wraith
I've always wanted to combine nightmare effect creatures with astral slide, and suture priest is so insane in slide. She can stall the game by keeping your heal up or just kill your opponent by blinking out their attackers. honestly let a slide deck get in full swing and have a copy or two of her and you can take down like 3-4 players all gunning for you.
huh, I've read over RUG list for a while and never took the time to notice they only run 8 fetches. np, I'd just go +1 stifle, +2 spell pierce, -1 chain lightning, -2 wooded foothills. personally I like spell pierce over spell snare for an unknown meta. outside of DnT I don't know too many times spell pierce is dead. spell snare might always have targets, but I've had a few too many times it just sat in my hand waiting to be pitched to FoW.
Also I just noticed the post about Young Pyromancer (I apologize finals week has my mind fried.) honestly if I were to go that route I'd just stick to my current UR delver build. YP just fits better in a more aggro shell imo. I do like the idea of tossing in a True-name nemesis so I might go with something more like -2 werebear, +1 true-name nemesis, +1 scavenging ooze. only swapping the second werebear for an extra ooze because I don't like having that many one ofs, and sometimes my wife still plays dredge.
so my new list would be
4 delver of secrets
4 nimble mongoose
1 tarmogoyf
2 scavenging ooze
1 true-name nemesis
Lands: 18
4 scalding tarn
4 misty rainforest
3 volcanic island
3 tropical island
4 wasteland
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
4 daze
4 ponder
4 lightning bolt
4 stifle
2 spell pierce
2 forked bolt
2 chain lightning
While by no means putting down a format where we unban the non-reserved list cards, but if you make a format with sol ring, mind's desire, Mana crypt, and Mana vault you'd be looking at the most broken format by far even without duels, hell I'd be running 20 islands and playing the above laughing all the way. LOL
4 delver of secrets
4 nimble mongoose
1 tarmogoyf
2 werebear
1 scavenging ooze
Lands: 20
4 scalding tarn
4 misty rainforest
2 wooded foothills
3 volcanic island
3 tropical island
4 wasteland
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
4 daze
4 ponder
4 lightning bolt
3 stifle
2 forked bolt
3 chain lightning
just a loose outline, I'd have to actually put a build together and give it a few plays and tweak obviously, but how does that look in a vacuum?
*edited to fix links
So the only thing I'm seeing is eidolon will be hitting you pretty good too. Delver lists you have cantrips that will trigger him and frankly we don't want that. So I'd drop him. Personally I'd run 2 snapcaster mage in their place.
Also I've been seeing a lot of people talking about how awesome delver becomes with black vise. While I really don't see vise being insane in legacy I know I've dropped a few into my U/R sideboard. It seems to me what I want for match-up where I'm playing against someone who wants to play control vs. me. I drop my counter packages and side in 3 vise and a few other board cards. But then again I get to do almost no tournaments these days so I could be very wrong on that one.
1. I don't like it, it's alot of damage for 1 mana but I'm usually using my Brainstorm/ponders with fetches to get rid of things I don't want or set up a delver. While yeah I can set up a delver and a wrath together it seems like more work then I really want to put in when I'm just trying to be quick. That's my feelings of course as always I say try it out and let us know your results.
2. I've found more often then not I'll take Force of Will over daze. A late game Daze is just dead so often with this deck since we don't have mana denial, and even worse when Goblin Guide has been feeding them lands. I run 4 Force of Will and 2 Spell pierce at the moment and find unless I'm playing combo they are the first things I board. I guess you could try 3 force/3 pierce but since most of the time the things I really want to stop are creatures pierce just doesn't seem to help as much.
Personally I'm not liking it. while yeah the abilities are pretty relevant I'm not a fan of 3 drops in here. It's competing with snapcaster on that turn and a snapcaster is usually more versatile. but that's my thoughts, I've been wrong on these things before.
Also, my wife has picked up Death & Taxes, I've yet to beat it. While I don't mind getting stomped around the house it does make me worried about the match up out and about, what are some ways to deal with it? I've just been going with boarding out my counters for 2 sulfuric vortex, 2 smash to smithereens, and a pair of lava spikes. I've had some moderate success with switching over to the burn style, but it's not usually too long before it stabilizes or crushes me under my own vortex.
This has worked well for me, I can't say there have been too many times if any that I was off on the wrong color mana. I usually grab basics and only grab my duels when I need a red mana and have a misty or need a blue and have a foothills. I like this play style as it shuts off their wastelands, it protects me if I decide to be crazy and cast multiple Price of Progress. It also has the add bonus for some of you of being $600 cheaper, not the reason I choose it oddly enough, but it does make my wallet smile knowing this. If I were to tweak it I'd probably add a few more fetches, but even as is I'm happy.
Also I recommend coordinating your fetches, I have mine matching what you'd expect in RUG (originally done because I'm slowly working to get the stuff for RUG) I have caught a few people off guard with my lands with a few play choices making them think I'm playing RUG then catch them out of left field with a PoP for 6+. It's a little thing but it's got me at least 2 wins. Though this doesn't help too much with a small local meta where people know each other.
the only thing I often question is daze. I love it against combo, I like it early game, but when I hit one after about turn 3 it's usually just FoW food. what is every one else's opinion on it? I saw people find FoW to be one of the worse cards of the deck but I rarely if ever see one and don't want it and I run the full 4 main. My current counter package is:
Main:
sideboard:
I'm thinking about cutting a daze for a spell snare to try it out and if I like it dropping both for it, I feel like with Stoneforge Mystic being so popular it's strong and it plays nicer with snapcaster mage.
The other problem I'm having is what to do for Graveyard hate. I'm running Relic of Progenitus but with 4 snapcasters and 3 lavamancers they hurt me more then a little. I do like them because they're strong vs Tarmogoyf and Deathrite shaman but I'm pretty strong in most match ups I see those two in anyhow. I've thought about Grafdigger's cage and tormod's crypt but I'm not completely sold on either. I need the GY hate because there is a bit of dredge & loam stuff about and dredge particularly is a rough match up. any suggestions?
Yeah I dropped the forked bolt for a fire // ice. I've not had any one pull off the depths combo on me but I can say I'm loving the Fire over forked bolt just for the instant speed. equipment is huge around my way and I've found myself a few times trying to pick the creature(s) to burn off while knowing Jitte/Cranial plating/Sword of ___ and ____ is just getting put on a different creature. being able to burn the creatures at instant speed helps alot. Though I do wonder the decks you face that have the depths combo can't you just burn them out with PoP quickly? I've got 3 main 1 sb with 4 snapcasters and most of the time I can get 2 PoP off for the kill on those decks before they can get the pieces together.