How was Collective Brutality against domain zoo? Seems odd being the only creatures you can hit are Noble and BBE. But even the other two modes are useful.
How often do you cast BBE and flip a total dud such as Bauble or Traverse (with no delirium)? There are other examples as well
His list changed a bit, since he lost to me yesterday. (he was also playing Qasali and knight)
Discard Helix, Bolt, Boros, Tribal Flames and more. And gain life if I need to.
Collective brutality has been OK yesterday so far. The master card was TBR against Zoo.
Not having delirium on turn 4 is something that very very rarely happens. Same for having 13 life or more.
Unless, I'm very behind and I have to try something, I won't cast it.
20-0 with the list at FNM level.. and great results online. I'm pretty sure this list have some potential.
20-0 sounds impressive, but what are you playing against? Need more context for your claim.
@ezey
This list looks great, and is actually like 3 cards off of what I'm running lol. I haven't played it yet in any events since I just put mine together a couple of days ago and I'm still in the "test every matchup 100x over like a madman" phase, but it looks like I'm on the right track w/ my decklist choices. I've had 3 flex spots I've been trying to figure out the past day or so, and I'm so mad I never even thought of glint-nest crane. It's so obvious. lol.
My sb plan for tron is a 2nd wetball (damp sphere) in the sb, 4th spyglass, chalice, padeem, sai, and skite. The idea is to find wetball/chalice asap, then stack needles on O-stone and karn (protecting them w/ jar, padeem, and skite) until you can close out the game with the combo/sai. Not that it's easy to do, and it is asking for quite a few things to go right, but wetball does give us a decent amount of time to find a pithing needle. Decay/pulse could be good in this MU as well, though figuring out what to drop will be pretty tough. I think the cuts post board are EE, cage/nihil spellbomb (I run spellbomb), bridge (I run 4, so I'd probably cut 1, maybe 2?), and perhaps tezzeret?
Anyways congrats, I'll be playing something very very close to that list this week at FNM.
A quick post to say that I start testing Ulvenwald tracker (1 main 1 SB) and it seems very good against creatures decks. Quite easy to kill anything in affinity and humans. Nice interaction with finks and even more when vizier is also present. Just 1 maindeck as chord target could be great especially seeing the number of humans, and their pesky meddling mages and kitesail freebooters. Any thoughts?
This card has been my secret bullet for months, and destroys any creature-based decks, particularly if you have him out alongside Rhonas. The local players have started learning that it is usually KoS or lose when it comes down.
Back when I was testing vizier knightfall and struggling against humans, I threw an ulvenwald tracker in my deck almost as a joke. I quickly realized that untapping with him is basically GG and have kept him as a 1 of in the sb ever since. He absolutely destroys other creature decks, and is a great way to force VoR to trade up into the token as well.
Back when I was playing vizier combo with Rhonas in the deck it felt like actual cheating to have tracker + rhonas in play.
I've been playtesting it since yesterday and it is absurd how much value this deck has. Not having spell quellers makes the linear matchups feel a bit more scary, but BBE > Queller feels pretty bad so it's understandable. Likely bringing this pile to FNM this week.
Looks pretty interesting, but I'm super hesitant to run a deck with no removal that can't assemble a combo fast. Jund is very popular in my local meta and showing up with a deck that can't answer Bob is playing a dangerous game. We all can't win by Bob flipping a BBE off the top.
Also I've been playing some games of the GP deck. I've been having fun, it's definitely more of a Vizier combo deck that coincidentally has a Retreat that you can win off of, not that there's anything wrong with that. Super pissed I can't find my copy of Worship though. I don't know how necessary it is to run Jace, but the one time I was able to play him I won off of it.
That list outgrinds jund so hard it's not a matchup I'd ever worry about. If they play a Bob, you just ignore it and continue vomiting value all over the board. You have 4x CoCo, 4x BBE, 2 Tracker, 2 Courser, 1 EWitt, 4 VoR, Gavony, etc that all come together to make the matchup near unwinnable for Jund. Reflector Mage is also huge in this matchup. Your clock is fast enough that the tempo swing from it is brutal for them. If you ever BBE into RMage, the game is just over almost on the spot.
The matchups that are difficult are the linear ones. Storm is too fast for you to race, infect is unwinnable, and tron is still blegh. This is why the sb runs 2 Eidolons of Rhetoric and 3 Crumble (BoP into t3 Crumble is probably good enough though).
I've been playtesting it since yesterday and it is absurd how much value this deck has. Not having spell quellers makes the linear matchups feel a bit more scary, but BBE > Queller feels pretty bad so it's understandable. Likely bringing this pile to FNM this week.
I think what sticks out to me is the amount of noncreature spells in a CoCo deck. You have 27 creatures and 10 of them are dorks. Being able to hold up mana to either Spell Queller or CoCo (or better yet, CoCo into Queller) seems really strong, but you lose a lot of value hits. Still, it must have worked out for him this weekend.
Yeah his list is a bit similar to what I've been running, but having 26 hits w/ coco (ballista being a miss) seems low af. Being low on ewitt/voice/tracker seems like the list would be weak to interaction as well. Was he on camera at all? Did they even stream the GP?
I really like the amount of variety this deck allows while still remaining very competitive. Nothing wrong with brewing, if it works, why not right? I personally prefer a more traditional list (link in sig), but I might start messing around with different idea's soon enough. Not like I'm going to a Pro Tour or massive GP anyway haha
Oh yeah if I was going to a competitive event and taking this deck I would bring a "stock" list. It has served me well in the past, but as much as I like to win at all costs, I am a brewer at heart so I have begun to do sleight experimentations with the deck at regular Modern events during the week. First it was the Knights, then trying out Knightfall with the Druid combo, then straight Ralliers, then Scullers, and now this value package. The stakes aren't high at casual weeknight events so why not try and experiment?
I have also been working on something like that, but it includes Stoneforge Mystic and Lightning Greaves, so not really something for this topic. Going the Vial route is super left field, and not really something that I think makes the deck better overall. I still want to try it trough so I may play a list like that this week.
- Because Aether Vial should take care of creatures you will hopefully have mana up a lot, so I'd be playing 4 Duskwatch Recruiter if I can, but no less than 3 for sure. Gotta try and pick up some foils this week.
- I think you could trim the dorks down to maaaybe 5, but at least play 4 Noble Hierarch/2 Birds of Paradise. The deck isn't that white intensive, and with only a 2 colour deck you can max out Hierarch and it's better because of Exalted. My argument for 5 dorks is that like Bant Eldrazi who wants their turn 1 plays to be a Dork or a Stirrings, here it is a Dork or a Vial. Usually I play 8 dorks, but dropping down to only 5 still lets me play 9 one drops with Vial so it in theory should up the Turn 1 consistency of the deck. You pick dork plan or Vial plan on turn 1 and go with it.
- I do think that dropping one Vizier of Remedies is ok since you can just hold it in hand and vial it in whenever you have a druid. It's not like anyone is going to Thoughtseize it over other impactful cards. That's how I'd justify playing three, but if I want to combo as often as possible I'd go the 4 Vizier route.
- When I originally designed my list I had it as 2 drop focused as I could for Vial. I am thinking about adding maybe another Renegade Rallier so that I can Vial it or EWit in in response to removal. That would allow you maybe 2 turns of 2 drops to get the druid combo off with Vial, and then move it to 3 counters and use your lands to play the 2 drops. I was doing it the other way around before because you still have a lot of mana flying around from dorks and stuff.
- I like the Kessig Wolf Run inclusion in lists with KotR. I had success with it before and I expect it to work again.
- I'm debating between +1 Horizon Canopy or +1 Forest. The life loss may be relevant, but that can be fixed post board. And if I'm winning fast enough it won't mater.
- Idk about Magus, I'd rather sideboard that. Same with Scavenging Ooze. I just want something more proactive Game 1. I am also uneasy of Voices, but they are 2 drops and kinda fill the roll of Finks for chumping and will be huge threats alongside KotR so they get included for now.
- Fauna Shaman is hilarious with Vial so we'll include it for now.
- Maybe cutting one Forest for a Ghost Quarter is correct, or just having one in the sideboard. It's a super low land count though so I'd be hesitant to play 3 colourless sources.
-I'm not sure I want to shave the number of dorks down any further with only 20 lands in the deck, esp considering I still want to ramp into an early coco. playing a 3/3 split instead of 4/2 is also a concession to having kessig + magus in the MB. If I end up moving magus out of the MB I could see going back to a 4/2 split.
-Magus has actually been very good, and does a great job at randomly locking people out g1. It's actually just insane against humans as well, and just straight up locks them out of casting creatures. I might end up moving it to the sb once people catch on to it locally, but for now it has been great at catching people off guard and stealing games.
-Without the kitchen finks combo, vizier is a pretty awful creature on it's own and 3 has felt correct in any non-finks build I've played.
-Scooby is partially a concession to how bad the burn MU is. It is a flex spot, so it might just be better off as another recruiter or voice though.
So I put aether vial in my deck and I'm 8-1 locally. 4-0 at fnm last night, and played a 30 man tournament today going 3-0 before double drawing in to top 8, losing in the semi finals to burn. Duskwatch Recruiter + Vial is one hell of a value train.
Aether vial and eternal witness is the best combo in magic
But I wonder what you took out for it, birds?
Surely it makes chord of calling much worse?
And company. Makes that worse too....
Dropped 1 hierarch, 1 chord, and 2 lands for 4 vials. Here's the list I ran yesterday:
So I put aether vial in my deck and I'm 8-1 locally. 4-0 at fnm last night, and played a 30 man tournament today going 3-0 before double drawing in to top 8, losing in the semi finals to burn. Duskwatch Recruiter + Vial is one hell of a value train.
JVP does not let you cast the suspend cards with Flashback.
"It's [Ancestral Vision] a legal target, since Jace's ability only requires an "instant or sorcery card in your graveyard" as its target.
It would, however, be a waste of the ability's use, because you still cannot actually cast Ancestral Vision this way. Jace's ability essentially gives you permission to cast the targeted card from an unusual place (the graveyard) that you normally cannot cast cards from. But since the ability doesn't say anything about not paying the cost for the spell, you still have to pay normally. Paying normally involves paying the mana cost of the card. But since Ancestral Vision does not have a mana cost, you cannot pay it, and the end result is that you cannot cast it, for the same reason that you normally cannot cast it from your hand." (and suspending a card can only be done from hand) http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/652878-jace-telepath-unbound-ancestral-vision
You use JVP to cast it w/ As Foretold, JVP let's you cast it from the gy (it's not flashback), and As Foretold let's you pay 0 instead of it's mana cost.
I put this deck together last night, playing 4 Rune Snag in place of mana leak/serum visions, and it was pretty great. The only downside is that you pretty much have to play all 4 copies of it or bust, which eats up a pretty big chunk of cards in the list. I'd recommend you guys give the card a shot though, it's extremely good in the late game.
20-0 sounds impressive, but what are you playing against? Need more context for your claim.
Might want to try posting that list in anything BUT alphabetical order if you expect anyone to read it.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1282930#paper
This list looks great, and is actually like 3 cards off of what I'm running lol. I haven't played it yet in any events since I just put mine together a couple of days ago and I'm still in the "test every matchup 100x over like a madman" phase, but it looks like I'm on the right track w/ my decklist choices. I've had 3 flex spots I've been trying to figure out the past day or so, and I'm so mad I never even thought of glint-nest crane. It's so obvious. lol.
My sb plan for tron is a 2nd wetball (damp sphere) in the sb, 4th spyglass, chalice, padeem, sai, and skite. The idea is to find wetball/chalice asap, then stack needles on O-stone and karn (protecting them w/ jar, padeem, and skite) until you can close out the game with the combo/sai. Not that it's easy to do, and it is asking for quite a few things to go right, but wetball does give us a decent amount of time to find a pithing needle. Decay/pulse could be good in this MU as well, though figuring out what to drop will be pretty tough. I think the cuts post board are EE, cage/nihil spellbomb (I run spellbomb), bridge (I run 4, so I'd probably cut 1, maybe 2?), and perhaps tezzeret?
Anyways congrats, I'll be playing something very very close to that list this week at FNM.
This card has been my secret bullet for months, and destroys any creature-based decks, particularly if you have him out alongside Rhonas. The local players have started learning that it is usually KoS or lose when it comes down.
Back when I was playing vizier combo with Rhonas in the deck it felt like actual cheating to have tracker + rhonas in play.
That list outgrinds jund so hard it's not a matchup I'd ever worry about. If they play a Bob, you just ignore it and continue vomiting value all over the board. You have 4x CoCo, 4x BBE, 2 Tracker, 2 Courser, 1 EWitt, 4 VoR, Gavony, etc that all come together to make the matchup near unwinnable for Jund. Reflector Mage is also huge in this matchup. Your clock is fast enough that the tempo swing from it is brutal for them. If you ever BBE into RMage, the game is just over almost on the spot.
The matchups that are difficult are the linear ones. Storm is too fast for you to race, infect is unwinnable, and tron is still blegh. This is why the sb runs 2 Eidolons of Rhetoric and 3 Crumble (BoP into t3 Crumble is probably good enough though).
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/996341#paper
I've been playtesting it since yesterday and it is absurd how much value this deck has. Not having spell quellers makes the linear matchups feel a bit more scary, but BBE > Queller feels pretty bad so it's understandable. Likely bringing this pile to FNM this week.
Yeah his list is a bit similar to what I've been running, but having 26 hits w/ coco (ballista being a miss) seems low af. Being low on ewitt/voice/tracker seems like the list would be weak to interaction as well. Was he on camera at all? Did they even stream the GP?
edit: he was on stream!
-I'm not sure I want to shave the number of dorks down any further with only 20 lands in the deck, esp considering I still want to ramp into an early coco. playing a 3/3 split instead of 4/2 is also a concession to having kessig + magus in the MB. If I end up moving magus out of the MB I could see going back to a 4/2 split.
-Magus has actually been very good, and does a great job at randomly locking people out g1. It's actually just insane against humans as well, and just straight up locks them out of casting creatures. I might end up moving it to the sb once people catch on to it locally, but for now it has been great at catching people off guard and stealing games.
-Without the kitchen finks combo, vizier is a pretty awful creature on it's own and 3 has felt correct in any non-finks build I've played.
-Scooby is partially a concession to how bad the burn MU is. It is a flex spot, so it might just be better off as another recruiter or voice though.
Dropped 1 hierarch, 1 chord, and 2 lands for 4 vials. Here's the list I ran yesterday:
4 Devoted Druid
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Eternal Witness
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Renegade Rallier
3 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
2 Voice of Resurgence
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
3 Forest
1 Stomping Ground
3 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Gavony Township
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Spellskite
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Kor Firewalker
3 Path to Exile
only until you leave.
You use JVP to cast it w/ As Foretold, JVP let's you cast it from the gy (it's not flashback), and As Foretold let's you pay 0 instead of it's mana cost.