Yeah, because Wizards themselves never had a website, and there certainly were never any fansites or random forums across the internet that discussed the game between Dojo folding and SCG/Brainburst being created.
Oh, wait, they did, and there were.
Without RE's spoilers, the internet magic community would've survived just fine on Wizards' site and all the other fansites. Crediting the survival of online discussion of Magic solely to the efforts of Daron Rutter is utterly... well, I can't really think of a truly appropriate word to put there.
During the period of MTGnews's heyday (2000-early 2003), Wizards website was little more than a joke. Sure, there were fansites and random forums, but MTGnews.com was BY FAR the most widely used resource. I stand by my previous statements.
Quote from urzassedatives »
A post on this thread asked why Hannes, the webmaster, was not also named in the suit, or had a suit thrown at him.
It is pretty simple really.
Message Boards employ a terms of service that includes an agreement that each user is held legally responsible for their actions, and that the actions of users are not the responsibility of the webmaster. The webmaster is expected to deal with offending content as needed, but the offending content is not his legal battle...
A good example is...
Few years back, a troublesome message board on Gamefaqs.com called Life, the Universe and Everything (LUE) discovered 'Sprint Relay' which lets you call anyone anywhere from your computer and have an operator 'relay' what you type to the person you call.
The entire message board called a pizza parlor for several hours.
The owner of the restaurant got wind of who did it, and contacted the webmaster of Gamefaqs, threatening harassment charges.
The webmaster then instituted a clause in the user agreement that he would not be held responsible for their actions.
He also kept a more watchful eye on that message board, eventually 'closing' it off to new members due to their tendency to vandalize other message boards.
Hannes is not responsible for what people post.
The internet becomes more like real life every day.
The distinction that I draw here is that Daron is a volunteer employee of this website, thus, it seems to me that the owner of the website would have to bear some responsibility for his employee's actions.
Can either of the two attorneys possibly provide an answer to this?
It's my observation that Wizards probably doesn't care all that much about the spoilers, so discussing their legality is a bit superfluous. They are seeking damages in the amount of $90,000. 3 playtest cards X $30,000 = $90,000, as his lawyer stated.
It also seems to me that it's strange that the webmaster of MTGSalvation has not yet been served with any type of charge stemming from this incident, other than being told to take down the offending images and text. It seems to me that at the very least, the webmaster of MTGSalvation would be an accessory to Daron's alleged "illegal activity". Perhaps one of the attorneys on this thread can better illuminate this for us... Is there no legal ground to sue someone for being an accessory to copyright infringement, in a civil suit? It just seems to me that in this highly litigious country, where you can sue someone for looking at you funny (if that suit would hold up in court is inconsequential; they can still bring a suit before a judge), that Wizards attorneys would at the very least bring some sort of charge against the webmaster.
My second point: True, it is important that we seperate Wizards as a company from their attorneys. If the attorneys decide to go for the metaphorical throat, it is not a reflection on them as a company. However, to use metaphor, a dog does not attack an intruder without at some point being instructed to do so by their master. Someone within Wizards or Hasbro had to give the go-ahead at some point to proceed with this lawsuit. Therefore, we can only seperate them from their attorneys to a certain point. It is also my opinion that since there has been no contact as of yet to reach an out-of-court settlement, that the dogs were in fact, told to go for the throat.
My final point: This is a personal point I would like to make. I consider Daron a personal friend. Daron and I were moderators together at MTGnews.com (before it went to hell). I considered Daron a personal friend. I still do to this day, though we converse less and less. I tried to enrich both MTGnews.com and the game of Magic by forming an editorial staff and publishing articles at MTGnews.com. Unfortunately, my grand experiment was a failure. It never realized its full potential. What I tried, and ultimately failed to do, Daron was doing three times a year. He has helped to grow the game. Spoilers are Daron's passion. Whatever damage Daron has done to Wizards corporate secrets, he has repaid a hundred times over in the good he has done for their game. In its time, MTGnews.com was the face of internet Magic. Believe me when I say this, that site would have crashed and burned, long before it did, without Daron's spoilers. Once The Dojo was shut down, we would have had nowhere to go if there was no MTGnews. The Internet Magic community would have been eradicated without Daron's spoilers keeping the site together. Sites like Brainburst and StarCityGames would never have even existed had MTGnews.com been around to bridge the gap between the Dojo and them. You have Daron Rutter to thank for that. By that same token, Wizards of the Coast has Daron Rutter to thank for that. He kept interest up in their game at a crucial time of uncertainty in their history.
I know a lot of you probably don't know me, but some of the real old school MTGnews users will remember me. In 2002 I narrowly beat out rancored_elf for Favorite Moderator in the Forum Awards.
Anyway, Friday was my three year anniversary of dating my girlfriend. Unbeknownst to her, I came down to her house while she was at work the day before, and asked her mother, brother, and uncle for their permission to ask her to marry me. They all gave me their blessing.
I am most pleased to announce my engagement to this community that meant so much to me. I hope some of my old friends can read this, that they might share my happiness with me.
I didn't do a triple Saviors draft, but I was lucky enough to get a Charge Across the Araba in the main event of the prerelease, and a buttload of 3/3 blue flyers (The channel one, and Teller of Lies, and some other one, I forget what its name was, I think it was the 3/1 guy.) I played U/w and dropped 3 games all day. I was 3-1 overall, 7-3 on games. I won every game I drew the Charge, sadly enough I didn't draw it twice against the same guy and ended up losing 1-2. Charge Across the Araba is ABSOLUTELY a first pick. The person that got it 5th or 6th, consider yourself lucky, because once people start drafting Kamigawa block, you're not going to get it that late ever again.
OMG I loved Warlord, I still have my Black Tom deck. Too bad no one plays it around here. I also played DBZ, Duel Masters, Yugioh (won well over 1000 playing that game.) Netrunner, L5R (god, also loved that game) and just about everything else under the sun. Except none of those (except yugioh, but I despise that game.) are really played around here. VS is played lightly and I like the game, it reminds me alot of Warlord.
Warlord is even more fun now... You should go to some of the warlord sites, www.warlordccg.com, www.temple-of-lore.com, and www.lot.f2o.org, there's a lot going on in the game since Black Tom was played. (They made a Type 2-ish format, Black Tom is no longer legal, neither is Behlial, Duchess Brymin, or the wizard guildmaster, the name escapes me. However, the good thing is that while you can no longer play them in "Campaign Format", people actually still play "Open Format" which is like Type 1.)
I haven't really met anyone on here that I could recruit, but I'm still looking. I think we still have a few days before we have to register as a clan.
You know Telim, you're going to hurt Dagger's feelings. You keep leaving him out of the count! We have five DM's. Telim, El Gato, Verbal, Dementia, and Daggertooth(he sucks the butt, but he's still a fellow DM;))
I thought Daggertooth said he couldn't rejoin because he was in another clan?
Wow... This is too close to call. I voted for Tawnos. Right now the top 3 are:
Tawnos: 84
Extremestan: 83
Ertai: 82
Very close.
I go to a site, called the Temple of Lore. It's another card game that I play regularly. They have a feature that when you log in, you can choose the entire site to appear how you want it, forum included. They have like five different choices. Maybe we wouldn't have to choose? Is there a way in VB3 to do that?
I talked to AgentKami ages ago...I just don't see her online anymore. I have Lejakals AIM and see her on regularly, at least I think it's her. I don't say hi much and she doesn't talk to me. I see Dementia once in a while, but I avoid him as much as possible. I find him detestable and stinky....very very stinky. :puke:
When we get a strong wind, I can smell him from all the way over in the midwest.
Lejakl is the forbidden###### person on AIM.
Kami doesn't come online on AIM anymore. She used to have a special account she only gave to certain people, but she doesn't even come on that anymore, you have to email her.
We need to start recruiting... We need six people to be a recognized clan, and there are only three of us right now. Also, Joey, some other clan has you on their member list, I forget who it is, but I saw it on the Clan Council thread. Anyone have any nominees?
Edit: We don't have three, we have four. Myself, Verbal, Dementia, and ElGato. I'm a silly flanker. =P Two more people and we're a recognized clan again!!!
And about the dog... Everyone likes self-flagellation. Nothing like the satisfaction you get from a job well done.
There are places in the midwest that marijuana actually grows wild. Police burn it as quickly as they can, and there are routine patrols along the places where it is known to grow, but it's there.
And yes, I understand what you're saying about all the red tape... It really is a "pipe" dream. =P
During the period of MTGnews's heyday (2000-early 2003), Wizards website was little more than a joke. Sure, there were fansites and random forums, but MTGnews.com was BY FAR the most widely used resource. I stand by my previous statements.
The distinction that I draw here is that Daron is a volunteer employee of this website, thus, it seems to me that the owner of the website would have to bear some responsibility for his employee's actions.
Can either of the two attorneys possibly provide an answer to this?
It also seems to me that it's strange that the webmaster of MTGSalvation has not yet been served with any type of charge stemming from this incident, other than being told to take down the offending images and text. It seems to me that at the very least, the webmaster of MTGSalvation would be an accessory to Daron's alleged "illegal activity". Perhaps one of the attorneys on this thread can better illuminate this for us... Is there no legal ground to sue someone for being an accessory to copyright infringement, in a civil suit? It just seems to me that in this highly litigious country, where you can sue someone for looking at you funny (if that suit would hold up in court is inconsequential; they can still bring a suit before a judge), that Wizards attorneys would at the very least bring some sort of charge against the webmaster.
My second point: True, it is important that we seperate Wizards as a company from their attorneys. If the attorneys decide to go for the metaphorical throat, it is not a reflection on them as a company. However, to use metaphor, a dog does not attack an intruder without at some point being instructed to do so by their master. Someone within Wizards or Hasbro had to give the go-ahead at some point to proceed with this lawsuit. Therefore, we can only seperate them from their attorneys to a certain point. It is also my opinion that since there has been no contact as of yet to reach an out-of-court settlement, that the dogs were in fact, told to go for the throat.
My final point: This is a personal point I would like to make. I consider Daron a personal friend. Daron and I were moderators together at MTGnews.com (before it went to hell). I considered Daron a personal friend. I still do to this day, though we converse less and less. I tried to enrich both MTGnews.com and the game of Magic by forming an editorial staff and publishing articles at MTGnews.com. Unfortunately, my grand experiment was a failure. It never realized its full potential. What I tried, and ultimately failed to do, Daron was doing three times a year. He has helped to grow the game. Spoilers are Daron's passion. Whatever damage Daron has done to Wizards corporate secrets, he has repaid a hundred times over in the good he has done for their game. In its time, MTGnews.com was the face of internet Magic. Believe me when I say this, that site would have crashed and burned, long before it did, without Daron's spoilers. Once The Dojo was shut down, we would have had nowhere to go if there was no MTGnews. The Internet Magic community would have been eradicated without Daron's spoilers keeping the site together. Sites like Brainburst and StarCityGames would never have even existed had MTGnews.com been around to bridge the gap between the Dojo and them. You have Daron Rutter to thank for that. By that same token, Wizards of the Coast has Daron Rutter to thank for that. He kept interest up in their game at a crucial time of uncertainty in their history.
Signed,
Kevin Leech
Former MTGnews.com Moderator
I know a lot of you probably don't know me, but some of the real old school MTGnews users will remember me. In 2002 I narrowly beat out rancored_elf for Favorite Moderator in the Forum Awards.
Anyway, Friday was my three year anniversary of dating my girlfriend. Unbeknownst to her, I came down to her house while she was at work the day before, and asked her mother, brother, and uncle for their permission to ask her to marry me. They all gave me their blessing.
I am most pleased to announce my engagement to this community that meant so much to me. I hope some of my old friends can read this, that they might share my happiness with me.
-Kevin Leech
(Sung to the tune of the dreidel song)
Birthday, birthday, birthday!
My birthday is today!
If you haven't sent a present,
then send it right away, hey!
Yes, it's Telim's TWENTY FIRST birthday!!! I'm going to Atlantic City this weekend for some alcoholism and gambling, yay!
Warlord is even more fun now... You should go to some of the warlord sites, www.warlordccg.com, www.temple-of-lore.com, and www.lot.f2o.org, there's a lot going on in the game since Black Tom was played. (They made a Type 2-ish format, Black Tom is no longer legal, neither is Behlial, Duchess Brymin, or the wizard guildmaster, the name escapes me. However, the good thing is that while you can no longer play them in "Campaign Format", people actually still play "Open Format" which is like Type 1.)
Recruit, everyone! We're almost to our obligatory six members!
NEW SMILIES!
I think this should be the DMs pet beholder. I think we should call him "Pickles". :caco:
I thought Daggertooth said he couldn't rejoin because he was in another clan?
Tawnos: 84
Extremestan: 83
Ertai: 82
Very close.
I go to a site, called the Temple of Lore. It's another card game that I play regularly. They have a feature that when you log in, you can choose the entire site to appear how you want it, forum included. They have like five different choices. Maybe we wouldn't have to choose? Is there a way in VB3 to do that?
When we get a strong wind, I can smell him from all the way over in the midwest.
Lejakl is the forbidden###### person on AIM.
Kami doesn't come online on AIM anymore. She used to have a special account she only gave to certain people, but she doesn't even come on that anymore, you have to email her.
We need to start recruiting... We need six people to be a recognized clan, and there are only three of us right now. Also, Joey, some other clan has you on their member list, I forget who it is, but I saw it on the Clan Council thread. Anyone have any nominees?
Edit: We don't have three, we have four. Myself, Verbal, Dementia, and ElGato. I'm a silly flanker. =P Two more people and we're a recognized clan again!!!
And about the dog... Everyone likes self-flagellation. Nothing like the satisfaction you get from a job well done.
And yes, I understand what you're saying about all the red tape... It really is a "pipe" dream. =P