MTG Salvation

So here's the situation

• I control Loyal Cathar, Garruk Relentless, Mycosynth Lattice, March of the Machines
• I cast Mirrorweave targetting Loyal Cathar
• Garruk Relentless is now a copy of Loyal Cathar. When he dies, he comes back on my end step transformed

How many loyalty counters does Garruk, Veil Cursed have when he enters the battlefield?

For what it's worth - the analogy to Standard isn't at all relevant. Vengevine was extremely good until Primeval Titan was printed and wafflestomped every possible midrange deck into submission. In Shards - ROE Standard, there were Vengevine decks in virtually every color combination -- Naya and Jund builds that played no/almost no non-creature spells (ie, 1 Basilisk Collar with 2 Stoneforges) in order to make Bloodbraid Elf a rebuy every time. Next-Level Bant was a deck that was founded entirely on 2 cards, Vengevine and Jace, the Mind Sculptor. And the aforementioned Dredgevine in BUG. When Primeval Titan and Valakut happened, you had to either play extremely aggressive (RB Vampires) or a million counterspells (UB Control). Vengevine was too slow to win before Titan came online, and not powerful enough to overcome Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle.

Anyway, Vengevine seems fine against Zoo, if you can stay alive long enough they only have 4 Paths plus maybe a Snapcaster or two, and those will get stretched between Goyf, Vine and Kitchen Finks. Against control decks, he's hard to kill and worth infinite card advantage (although Teachings is playing an Extraction, kind of a bummer).

Fauna Shaman is slow to win, but if you're dumping Vengevines you've basically got a Dark Confidant that costs G instead of life.

This deck 3-1'd a Daily, and is crazy fun to play.

When you play to resolve Past in Flames every single game, it turns out Burning Inquiry s actually rather insane.

I'm not entirely sure what your plan is supposed to be against decks with multiple counterspells, considering the reliance on Past in Flames. I suppose Empty the Warrens is much more reasonable as a win condition without PiF-ing, postboard

It's an exaggeration to say that Garruk is "at worst" a 2-for-1. If I have Midnight Haunting + Instigator Gang in hand, all you get for 3G is a 2/2 wolf and a fog. Just like every Planeswalker ever...

Freakin' love this guy. Oh, your first 6 picks included Chapel Geist, Voiceless Spirit and Midnight Haunting? Good strategy

That he's colorless is a huge boon to my idiot durdle 3 color decks

Kessig Wolf Run is an extremely mana-intensive bomb. It's also great insurance against flooding. Your friends who told you the card is bad are wrong; spell-like lands are always amazing in Limited, especially when they have a damn X written on them.

The most important thing it does isn't Fireballing your opponent's face; rather, it makes your worst creature trade with virtually anything. GWr makes the card especially insane - when you trade up your Avacyn's Pilgrim for a Night Revelers, or a spirit token for a Stitched Drake, you're going to love the card too.

Simple UW with no splash seems plenty good, and if you want a little more removal or reach there's a Brimstone Volley easily within reach in Red.


The mana curve is a little high and you have a couple low-impact dudes (1/4s) but it's sealed and there are tons of fliers. You're almost impossible to race thanks to Feeling of Dread, bounce spells, and Cleaver, and your late game is fantastic with the 3/3 fliers (esp the Blue one -- 3/1 voiceless spirits! 2/1 tokens!), Moorland Haunt and flashback spells.

In the humans mirror, cut two lands and a Bonds for a Mountain, the dual and Brimstone Volley. I'd go with 2 Plains, because Inquisitor is much lower impact and I don't want to have Claustrophobias stuck in my hand, but 1/1 is fine too.

Seems to me that OP's point isn't so much "Bombs define this format" (as they did in Scars block, to the extent that Pith Driller was better P1P1 vs Volt Charge so you could be open to Sunblast Angel pack 3) as the draft metagame is so archetype-centric that you get shipped insanely late bomb rares.

This certainly happened to me in a draft a few weeks ago where I got a 3rd pick Reaper from the Abyss pack 3, followed immediately by my second Unburial Rites. Thanks, guy three seats to my right, for opening a Bloodline Keeper pack 1 and shutting the two directly to my right out of Black

Why play Lightning Bolt when you could play Slagstorm, or Earthquake, or another spell that can kill all the stupid utility dorks? They also work on token legions.

The only time you'd want Lightning Bolt over a slightly pricier sweeper is when you have a specific target who needs to die, and you need to spend all of your mana but 1 on a different spell on the same turn. These situations just don't happen that much - either you won't really fall behind by not casting your spell, or the target doesn't need to die that badly, or the spell that costs all your mana is actually far more important than their Sygg (maybe you're gonna Genesis Wave for 12)

RW seems pretty good; plenty of removal, 3 excellent fliers (Angels and a Dragon) with a decent curve.



Auras aren't completely unplayable, especially when you get the chance to slam a 7/7 Akroma for 7 :). You will have to run auras into removal, but hopefully they won't have anything for your followup bomb.

Fiery Hellhound and Doom Blade would be nice to have but your mana would just be too awful (with elite vanguard, Warhorse and Lawkeeper demanding more plains). One Manalith or Terramorphic and you could probably justify cutting two of the awful Red dudes for Doom Blade + Gravedigger.

Griffin Rider is a 4/4 fwiw

I'd try to avoid both cards in general, but when your draft goes sour you go with aggressive high-variance cards exactly like these so you can try to steal games. Goblin Grenade should be fairly good for this, actually - 1 mana lava axe as long as you're playing the crappy 2/1s you got forced into playing? Sure!

I don't think there are any bounce spells that affect non-creatures in M12, though.

You definitely want to have some game-ending cards if you're going to play this, though - a Fireball, an Overrun, etc - in addition to some enchantment removal, because you can very realistically have your 1 out in the last 15 cards or whatever that you'll draw as part of the game-losing upkeep

Quote from Benjammn

Chancellor of the Tangle only really plays well with Legacy Hypergenesis since you also need a land + a Spirit Guide which you have an additional 4 over the Extended list. While he enables T1's, it is a dead card if you can't combo T1 and therefore is only useful about 20% of the time. I would run, however, Chancellor of the Annex to disrupt your opponent a bit.

He's not an awful fatty to plop into play, either. Unlike Progenitus, he beats Baneslayer Angel

It is true that you need 3 specific cards in your opening hand (Simian Spirit Guide, CTangle, Violent Outburst) to get big, so I don't think it's worthwhile overall, but I think it's honestly close. And 2x CTangle gets there, too...

Y'know, Brozek-deck-Wins is legal again. RW burn with Steppe Lynx, Geopede, Adventuring Gear (?), Zektar Shrine Expedition plus Ghost Quarter/Flagstones of Trokair legend-ruling itself for massive damage!

Depending on the ruleset (what starting life?), Lyzolda the Bloodwitch is quite good. RB aggro is legitimate (Dauthi Slayer + Grafted Wargear is a big game), and Lyzolda is a decent threat + card advantage/removal engine

It must have been Standard, because Tangle Mantis is from MBS

I've scooped to prevent my brain from exploding from Knowledge Pool + Hive Mind interactions, that's probably the worst.