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    posted a message on [Deck] NO RUG
    @ Dyne: that su***, but what can you do?!

    Regarding your list, have you ever thought about replacing your 2 basics with another fetch (Scalding Tarn) and another Taiga (or Trop) and cutting Daze to make room for some number of Spell Pierces?

    How do you like Ooze in the maindeck?
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck] NO RUG
    How do you guys add Sylvan Library without messing up the blue count for FoW?
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck] NO RUG
    Any thoughts on Scavenging Ooze or Terravore in NO RUG?
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Mental Misstep
    This is a dream card for Countertop decks (Supreme Blue/Intuition Countertop), as it's finally an answer to Vial AND GSZ. Countertop suddenly has 8 answers to their most problematic cards (Vial/GSZ/Lackey) with Misstep and Force of Will.

    I also think the card will be most effective when you run it next to more countermagic (FoW, Daze, Counterspell or whatever), so to me it doesn't seem to make any sense in the board of a Goblin deck for instance.

    Mental Misstep will most likely make Countertop a top tier deck again.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
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    posted a message on [Deck] Bant
    NO PRO countertop with 4x Spell Snare in the side comes in against Survival. The deck will become even better again with the banning of Survival of the Fittest.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck] Bant
    It's actually pretty simple:

    There are only 2 refined Countertop decks that don't need much to discuss (these are both 'Proven'):

    - Countertop Progenitus (first list on this page)

    - 4C Countertop (Martell's list).

    The Countertop Progenitus (Bant Control) version has made numberous of top 8 appearances and is still prefered by some of the best Countertop players among us, even after having played/tested the 4C Countertop version. Both are very strong decks. Countertop Progenitus plays Stoneforge Mystic and Jitte SB to fight aggro, while 4C Countertop plays Firespout (so it's basically the aggro route vs control route). 4C Countertop is more control orientated, while Countertop Progenitus is more aggro orientated.

    Less people play Natural Order because of the popularity of Jace. Most want to play Jace as their main win condition and why not? He fits perfectly in the Supreme Blue Countertop shell, thus Natural Order sees less play...although all of this doesn't have anything to do with the true power of NO in Countertop.

    Bant Aggro (2nd list on this page) is a whole different animal; it isn't as refined as Countertop. It has many variations and UGW Tempo is one solid example of it (= Bant Aggro with Wasteland, Noble Hierarch, Daze).
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Signs You've Been Playing Too Much Magic
    When your fantasy shows you an old and sick man laying on his hospital bed, telling his grandson his last words, right before he dies: 'Kid, remember one thing: never ignore Daze, they'll Pierce you to death'.
    Posted in: the Speakeasy
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    posted a message on [Deck] The Gate
    Pizzabagel:

    Personally I'd transform the deck into The Gate, especially since you're not far away from it.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] The "Why Magic Is/Was/Will Be Dying" Thread
    Magic won't ever die; we will.

    Just play the game till you can't play with your deck anymore. Seriously, I played Magic when I was a teenager and always loved it, especially playing it with my brother and cousins. I remember one of my cousins played a blue deck that seemed insanely broken compared to the other decks; it was the deck I always wanted to buy from him, haha. Magic has always been a great, great game. Until recently I came back to it (after years of not playing and a lot of serious ☺☺☺☺ happened in my life). Despite all of this, I love Magic again and I'll probably never give up on this game. It works like a drug, it always itches.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Eva Green wants to beat and win quickly with a lot of early game disruption (in conjunction with ritual) and then swinging for the win with an early Stalker, Tarmo, big Shade. Snuff Out feeds Stalker like no other removal spell, because it's totally free. It also has a great synergy with Shade, since you don't need mana to get rid of a creature (which means you can make fully use of Shades pumping ability). Swords is 1 mana, Smother is 2 mana, so both will have an influence on how the deck plays. Snuff Out fits perfectly in the strategy of Eva Green, it's made for the deck. I still believe the green splash is better than the white splash.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Snuff Out is better than Swords in Eva Green.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on DEADGUY ALE PRIMER
    Colo, I like your list very much, but the thing I don't understand is why you're running 10 fetches and only 3 Wastelands....isn't it better to go -3/4 fetch, +1 Wasteland, +2/3 basics (swamps).

    Also, how is the deck performing against Zoo/Merfolk?
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Quote from jamis
    I mean you just listed several bad match-ups; Zoo, New Horizons, and (depending on the build of each deck) Goblins are all unfavorable, so if you were going into a meta full of these decks, I'd suggest bringing something else instead of bringing this deck minus Sinkholes.


    Goblins is definately a favourable matchup for us, as well as New Horizons.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Quote from N00bSCH001BU5
    For example, killing a Noble Hierarch instead of a land is a much more effective way to gain tempo in that situation. So the question becomes; is Sinkhole the most effective way to gain tempo against the current meta?


    I don't think you understand it; you can kill the Hierarch AND a land at the same time for only 2 mana. Why? Because of Snuff Out. At the same time it makes up for a very early Stalker. Snuff Out also has a great synergy with Shade because you don't need the mana to get rid of an opposing creature, which means you can fully make use of Shades pumping ability when attacking.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Eva doesn't want Bob or SDT because the deck is already tight enough; they require too much valuable space in the deck, which means you'll have to cut some disruption or beaters and that's definately not what you want. Drawing an SDT in the early/mid game shouldn't make you happy either; you'd be much happier to draw a Shade, Stalker or whatever kind of threat/disruptive piece. We don't have time for library manipulation, period.

    Bob alone is still pretty good as a 2/3-off, but he WILL hurt with Snuff Out, Stalker AND Hippy/Nighthawk...it's the main reason why I don't play him, although I like the card very much. Cutting Snuff Outs for Smothers is a pretty bad move in my opinion; 0 mana vs 2 mana...it shouldn't be too difficult to choose which one is most tempo orientated. Really, the deck is great as it is, the only 'drawback' is no library manipulation. We don't need mana fixing because we only run 2 colors and our manabase is really solid enough, more solid than most. Many (top tier) decks run 3 colors these days, so the Sinkhole-Wasteland (LD) package is just a strong call in many cases.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Signs You've Been Playing Too Much Magic
    You've been playing too much magic if you want to put a huge tattoo of Mother of Runes on your back, to feel protected for the rest of your entire life.
    Posted in: the Speakeasy
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Quote from TLK
    Do people think Pulse is necessary? I've been wanting to try 2 mainboard, but will likely just throw them into the sideboard or not use them at all. I remember a few artifacts that gave my creatures problems when I ran Zoo, but I'm hoping our hand disruption will solve that. Thoughts?


    Not needed mainboard. However in your list you could side-out 2x Gatekeeper for 2x Pulse/Grip if your meta contains less aggro based decks. Otherwise adding Pulse/Grip next to Gatekeeper/Nighthawk/Hippy would mess with the curve; it would make the deck slower and less agressive, definately not what you want.

    Just side in Krosan Grip if you think you need it. That's why we play Sinkhole, Hymn, Thoughtseize, Inquisition, Hippy. Artifact removal main is just too much, but it can be helpful at times; which is the reason why we have Krosan Grip in the sideboard.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    I pretty much agree with JohnnyL.

    There might be cheaper and 'stronger' decks for the current meta (like Merfolk), but I doubt they're more fun to play with. Knowing your playstyle and personal view on Magic is very important when you choose a deck, apart from everything else. Remember that Eva Green is just different than MBA, because it plays with duals, fetches, Goyfs (and Grip/Pulse/Summoning Trap/Choke etc.) Eva Green can adapt itself to the meta pretty easily, mostly because it has many solid SB options; that's another powerful aspect that should be mentioned.

    If you just want a cheap and strong deck I'd suggest spending your money on a Merfolk deck.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    My advice: play the deck you want to play. Eva Green is a powerful deck that has good matchups against several top legacy decks (take a look on page 1 about the matchups). It can win even from Zoo, which is definately not a favourable matchup in the first place. Since the deck doesn't run any library manipulation it comes with explosiveness instead. Snuff Out is awesome because it's free, which means it's very much tempo orientated; therefore it's better than Smother/Edict in this deck. Snuff Out is also your friend against a turn 1 Lackey/Hierarch etc. Against black it shouldn't be much of a problem, but you could try a split between Smother/Edict if you really think it's worth it for your meta.

    The reason why it doesn't show up much at tournaments is because most people want library manipulation, mana fixing and consistancy over explosivness and agression.

    Personally I find Eva Green exciting to play because it's a no-nonsense deck, it's the reason why I play it (it's not your standard blue or Green/White deck with KotR/FoW etc. I don't like playing standard cards that everybody plays (make them all look the same in the end), which is a big reason why I don't play blue or white. Eva Green is also an expensive deck and contains some cards that are hard to come by, which might be factors here as well. Good players that actually play Eva Green get good results, top 8's/top 4's.

    Remember that EVERY deck has its good and bad matchups, so I wouldn't say Merfolk is the better deck like you stated. It depends on how you look at it; for instance: we beat Merfolk. Way more people play Merfolk, so you'll hear more about their results than Eva. I like the fact that Eva is able to win from any deck, depending on your playing, draws, the cards you're running and luck from your side (which comes with no library manipulation).

    I look at my Bayou's and I think: that's how a dual land is supposed to look like Cool
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    I know that putting SDT on top doesn't save Lich...but again: how big is the chance that your opponent is able to Grip/Vindicate/Ring/Pridemage your SDT immediatly when Lich suddenly joins the battlefield? Wouldn't you play Lich after disruption/discard in the first place? I'd just keep him in my hands untill I've let them discard stuff or removed Qasali, whether with Gatekeeper, Goyf, Stalker, a blocking Nighthawk or Pulse, Smother).
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Quote from Johnny_Spike
    I tried Lich with 18 artifacts in the deck and couldn't consistently cast him. I'm not sure he's worth all the hype...


    How on earth is it impossible to cast Lich when you play 18 artifacts?! Do you know that it's really hard to get rid of SDT? That's why I added 3 of them in the list (also because of Confidant/Stalker/Pulse); SDT can always come back in play with its 2nd ability, so I don't see why it's a problem to play Lich in the list I posted.

    I think it's a huge mistake to build the entire deck around Lich, since he's just another huge beater that can suddenly be there (like Stalker, but in a different way). How many decks run artifact removal main? How big is the chance they can actually constantly remove SDT? Seems like a wasted play as well. I really don't see the problem. Unearth might deserve a spot here as well; Unearthing Lich doesn't seem like a bad move in the list. It's just an experiment; I'm not saying we should play him, I just think he has very much potentional in Vesper Green builds as an additional beater; No white splash needed for Doran, that's what I mean.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Mind Twist would be explosive on turn 1/2 with Ritual; that's why you'd want 3/4 copies and probably make some kind of split (3-2) with Hymn, but I'm not sure how that would work out. It's definately an interesting card for us if it were unbanned.

    I was a bit experimenting with a Lich build and I came up with this list:



    Any thoughts?
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Jamis, congratulations!

    How is Putrid Leech as a 1-off? Have you tried Reanimate in its spot? It's basically your 4th Shade or 5th Goyf (or some other extra beater for 2 life usually). It's 1 mana cheaper than Leech and it doesn't require green mana, which does make a difference.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    I don't understand why some Eva Green players still play Snuff Out; it's really, really bad against zoo, burn and aggro in general (at least nowadays).
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Elminister:

    Your list looks good, but you really should be playing 4 Bayou/1 extra swamp over 1 Urborg/4 Overgrown Tomb, especially with Deed and/or Pulse. I know Bayou's are expensive, but you'll really need them. You can add Jitte in the two empty slots from your sideboard or go -1 Krosan Grip + 3 choke, something like that.

    Patrunkenphat7:

    Since I've cutted Sinkhole from the deck, I'd like to playtest 2 Reanimate and 2 Basilisk Collar in the remaining slots. Reanimate is just awesome, early game, mid game or late game. Basilisk Collar gives your Shades, Gatekeepers, Goyfs and/or Stalkers more edge and don't forget it serves as a lifegain machine as well (next to Nighthawk). It has a great synergy with Reanimate as well.

    This is the list I'd like to playtest:



    The single Deed can either get replaced by another Gatekeeper (or a 1-off Diabolic Edict/Doomblade), another Pulse, or another discard spell (Duress, Thoughtseize or Inquisition). For now, I'd like to playtest a single Deed.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Quote from Patrunkenphat7
    I personally feel like Vesper Green is bad because the deck tries to be control and suicide/aggro at the same time, which just doesn't work out too well against most decks. You will lose a lot of the edge you have over most control decks. Regardless of how people feel about Vesper Green, it should be discussed in a rock-style thread.

    As a sidenote, Sinkhole is actually quite good against Zoo. Zoo cannot bounce back from losing 2 lands. I beat Zoo at a GPT last Saturday by blowing up 3 lands in one turn with 2 Sinkholes and a Wasteland, causing him to have no lands in play. I agree that Sinkhole is very bad against Goblins, but that's why I board them out for Engineered Plagues.

    @Elminister: Good luck building the deck! It's an awesome deck to play. I completely endorse Nighthawk, but I am skeptical of Deed as a MD card. Just test some and see what you think about them.


    Vesper Green is just aggro/control, without being a suicide deck like Eva Green; it doesn't play Snuff Out, nor Sinkhole. Playing Thoughtseize and fetches doesn't mean you're playing Suicide at all. Sinkhole is the card we mostly side-out for different stuff, well too many times (!) because it really doesn't make the difference anymore. Why not cut Sinkhole entirely and make room for other stuff in that 4-slot? 2 Deed, 2 Reanimate...just an idea. Deed feels really nice, especially with Ritual. With Deed, I can make better use of the 'dead' Ritual(s), so Ritual is definately less of a dead draw. In this case, you might not need SDT. Just -4 Sinkhole, +2 Deed, +2 Reanimate. I'm also playing 2 Pulses maindecked. Against Goblins you can go -2 Deed, -1 Reanimate, +3 Engineered Plague. Against Zoo you can go -2 Deed, -2 Reanimate, -2 Pulse, +3 Perish, +2 Jitte, +1 Inquisition/Deathmark...just something like that. Deathmark deserves a spot as well, as it's awesome against almost any deck nowadays, including Zoo. I'd rather draw a Deathmark in the mid game against Zoo instead of a Sinkole as well.

    And by the way, I also like Nighthawk and he deserves the full set; it's much better than Hippy nowadays (my opinion anyway).
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Throst, I'll give my personal view on your statements.

    We are, however, one of the decks that runs Tombstalker. 8 Fetches insure that you will be able easily play one whenever you want.

    I find 6 fetches to be more than enough for 3 Stalkers. It also makes the deck less vulnerable to Stifle.

    The format will likely shift towards aggro.

    That's why I don't think Sinkhole makes the difference anymore. It's too slow against aggro and it's basically another dead draw in the mid/late game. Nowadays we should focus more on the mid/late game to even get a chance against fast aggro, so either I'd suggest to play Vesper Green or something entirely different. Zoo will probably stick for a loooooooong time as well, so as long people keep playing Zoo, we can forget about Eva becoming a tier 1 deck again. If we don't search for maindeck solutions against fast aggro, I don't think we'll have much succes coming years.

    The only big things Inquisition wont hit is FoW and ANT. 3/2 TS/IoK split seems the best if you want a split. 5 1cc discard has felt like the correct number to me for a long time.

    In fact I'm running a 3-2 split between Thoughtseize and Inquisition.

    Nighthawk doesnt stick around long enough or he sits there untapped stalling out the red zone, and Zoo/Goblins etc win the inevitability war a lot better than we do.

    Opposing creatures shouldn't be much of a problem for us; it's the amount of creatures that Eva Green can't handle in many situations, because we play too much early game disruption (Sinkhole is too much here), which is why we don't have MD answers to a Goblin/Zoo army. Pernicious Deed should be considered maindecked, which is why moving to a Vesper Green (more controllish build) isn't that strange at all...
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Quote from Inkkubus
    sup, new in the forum

    have you ever tried phyrexian arena instead of bob? i know its 3-4 creatures less, but there arent many enchantment hate on MD at least, and that 1 card extra every turn just makes it so much better, and you dont have the life loss of bob, you dont show the card(so you dont give any information) and there are too many creature hate on legacy.

    what you think??


    I see it this way: Bob and Arena are played for different purposes. SDT is a card that will fit in a more controllish version (or even in the traditional Eva build if you make room for it), as Eva Green is very draw dependent and that drawback is more of a drawback than ever.

    Eva Green with SDT is called 'Vesper Green'. With SDT and without Sinkholes, I'd definately go for Bob as a 3/4-off. I know he dies much easier compared to Arena, but that's just how it works. Bob dies, Goyf survives. They've wasted removal on Bob instead of your Shades, Goyfs, Nighthawks, Stalkers. Never expect Bob to survive long; if he's able to give you 1 or 2 extra cards then that's already great. He's cheaper compared to Arena and doesn't need 2 swamps; only 1 swamp and a colorless mana (bayou, wasteland, forest). Bob is easier to get rid of as well, Phyrexian Arena isn't. I'd rather get 1/2 extra cards from Bob then constantly drawing an extra card and losing one life. Bob-> fetch -> Stalker does it for me.

    Eva Green just need to adapt itself to legacy, just like any other deck needs to (especially now with the banning of MT). I think Vesper Green has lots of potentional nowadays.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    I don't think Berserk will make the cut as the card is just too situational and creature dependent.

    We always talk about Zoo being extremely problematic, but not anyone stands up and comes with solutions. We are NOT, read: NOT playing Suicide. Of course, unless you play Snuff Out you're playing suicide. Just forget about that card.

    Second: we are not the only deck that runs fetchlands. Legacy is almost dominated by fetchlands. I personally think 6 fetches are enough for Eva Green.

    Third: we have the option to cut Thoughtseize for Inquisition of Kozilek and Duress, but Thoughtseize (or some kind of split) shouldn't be a problem to run against Zoo.

    We have Deathmark, Doomblade, Smother etc. Especially Deathmark seems like a godess card for Eva Green in todays meta. Nearly every creature we should concern about is green or white. Gatekeeper as a 2-off (together with our discard) gets rid of non-white/green creatures. We have our own creatures to fight, including a perfect blocker and lifegainer -> Nighthawk. We are one of the few decks that are immune to opposing Deathmarks (of course except for Goyf). It's not the opposing creatures we should concern about in Eva Green, it's the amount of creatures.

    The thing I really dislike is that we don't run any library manipulation and/or some kind of card advantage like Bob. Vesper Green does; therefore it doesn't run one card: Sinkhole. There's a lot to say about Sinkhole, but lets face it: it doesn't cut it anymore in todays legacy metagame. Especially without library manipulation it's often a wasted/dead draw.

    Cards to think about:

    Pernicious Deed.
    Deathmark.
    Sensei's Divining Top.
    Smallpox.
    Dark Confidant.

    And probably more.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on DEADGUY ALE PRIMER
    1) Do you guys run Gatekeeper?

    2) Do you run Persecutor or Stalker?

    3) Can you post a list I can work on or could you just PM me about this? I'd like to know where to start with building a proper DGA deck. With all the new stuff available it's getting really difficult to get a proper idea of how a DGA deck should look like these days. For instance: I'd like to play Gatekeeper, but I don't see it working with only 2 basic swamps in the deck.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
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    posted a message on DEADGUY ALE PRIMER
    Quote from White_Ghost
    Keep it black heavy and remember the emphasis on disruption. Moving towards midrange Rock lists or BWG Agro lists (Anwar's article) doesn't seem like the right decision, even if I did end up losing to Anwar's list (due to a severe error on my part coupled with two ridiculously bad stretches of topdecks).


    Adding Goyf to the deck means you're playing BWG aggro instead BW pikula...I'd like to know if you stick with BW or add green for Goyf. Adding green makes the mana base less stable and Gatekeeper is useless when you run 3 colors.

    Doesn't Persecutor have a place in DGA these days or is Stalker still prefered?
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
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    posted a message on DEADGUY ALE PRIMER
    @ White Ghost,

    That's good to hear.

    Can you post the DGA list you're talking about (with Gatekeeper/Goyf)? I'm really interested.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
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    posted a message on DEADGUY ALE PRIMER
    Well I thought Deadguy is a tier 1 deck nowadays Smile
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
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    posted a message on DEADGUY ALE PRIMER
    @ dirtyapes,

    I'd like to hear some comments as well about the differences between the control version of DGA or the aggro version (stoneforge mystic, equipment and/or mother, spectral lynx.


    Also where's Dark Confidant in some lists? DGA is one of those decks that can run Bob because he fits in the strategy/curve and he's one of the reasons to play DGA. Bob is just insane CA.

    I'm definately not a fan of night's whisper or sign in blood.

    So is there anyone really experienced with the deck?
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Some of the cards Anwar mentioned in his article have been discussed before (a lot), like Sinkhole, Hippy, Snuff Out, no library manipulation.

    -) Sinkhole is a dead card in the mid/late game, Vindicate isn't.

    -) Hippy doesn't make the cut in this fast format, only with a first turn ritual...he's also a fragile 2/2 body.

    -) Snuff Out hurts a lot next to all the fetch lands, thoughtseizes and zoo decks that are around in large numbers.

    Also no library manipulation means that you'll never know what you're going to draw next turn(s) = inconsistency. Most (if not all) decks are running some sort of library manipulation these days (SDT/Sylvan Library/Bob and others).

    Kitchen Finks is awesome (particularly against Zoo, our worst matchup). Putrid Leech is an agressive 5 turn clock suicide beater; great synergy with Finks).

    Qasali Pridemage is excellent (exalted, artifact/enchantment removal).

    SDT needs no explanation in a 3-colored build, no matter if its an aggro, control or combo deck.

    I just think Anwar has it right; there needs to happen something to the deck, a new evolution.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Edit: After playtesting Bob again, I have to admit he just doesn't belong in the deck; I'm convinced and it's the last time I'll ever play him again in Eva Green.

    We play threats and disruption; Bob is neither.

    What do you guys honestly think about Nighthawk? I personally don't think it's a replacement for Hippy (ever), even not in an aggro-ish environment, since Hippy is an important part of our disruption.

    I'd like to hear your personal opinions on this.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Quote from Throst54
    How do you like the MB grips? Do you have a ton of aggro in your meta? If so, since aggro doesnt really refill their hand fast you could probably goto hyppie/hawk 3/2 split since hawk is generally better in that matchup.
    Or even just change the 1 hawk to a reanimate since it will almost always be a late game draw and reanimate will (probably) give you more choices.
    Mostly i wonder why you have just once hawk...

    Have either of you tried replacing yours 4th nantuko shade with a Putrid Leech?


    I've never tried Putrid Leech, as I feel the lifeloss will hurt too much with all the Seizes, Fetches and Snuff Outs. I play 2x Gatekeeper main because it gets rid of creatures you missed with Thoughtseize and/or it gets rid of creatures you were not able to hit with Snuff Out. Gatekeeper is also CA.

    Actually I was thinking Nighthawk OR Reanimate myself as well (I chose Nighthawk for a little more edge in a creature heavy meta (I face a lot of aggro, but control as well, that's the difficult part). I'll try Reanimate in its spot.

    I'm not sure about a split between Hippy/Nighthawk, as I feel Hippy needs to be a 4-off to be able to cast it turn one (with Ritual); otherwise I don't know if it makes much sense to play Hippy at all. The DCI foils Hippies are also way too nice to look at!

    Popeye: I notice you're using Doomblade as a 2-off instead of Gatekeeper...how is that working for you? Don't you worry about Progenitus/Mongoose?
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Buy me a drink too!

    Anyway, this is the list I'm playing (with the new Inquisition):

    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Yeah, Death's Shadow pretty much sucked after playtesting Wink

    It's just that I want to play Bob, I almost need to play him, but I can't find any deck space and indeed he doesn't seem to fit in the tempo orientated strategy of the deck.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck] The Gate
    That's why you always play disruption turn 1 (Thoughtseize, Inquisition, Hymn, Ritual/Hippy or some combination of them).

    Swamp
    Dark Ritual
    Bloodghast, float 1 black
    Culling the Weak
    Abyssal Persecutor

    swords

    It's one of the many plays with Culling and actually it still sounds pretty good to me; you'd only have 3 Persecturs left with 5/6 sac outlets (2x Gatekeeper, 3x Culling/1x Innocent Blood) including Thoughtseize/Inquisition and Snuff Out for opposing creatures (and your own beaters to fight with as well). In this scenario your yard would be already filled with 4/3 cards for Stalker on turn 1, depending on if you fetched the swamp or not.

    4 Persecutor, 4 Stalker, 4 Culling. Shade is another threat that can end games quickly (with remaining Rituals/Swamps). They'd need like 12 STP's to stop the aggro-insanity. Hippy is must-answer card as well and like Hymn he's capable to hit lands/combo pieces.

    4x Tombstalker
    4x Abyssal Persecutor
    4x Nantuko Shade
    4x Hypnotic Specter
    2x Gatekeeper of Malakir

    4x dark ritual
    4x Thoughtseize
    2x Inquisition of Kozilek
    4x Hymn to Tourach
    4x Culling the Weak
    3x Snuff Out
    1x Innocent Blood
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
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    posted a message on [Deck] The Gate
    What do you guys think about Culling the Weak?

    -it's only 1 mana, at instant speed.
    -it's another sac outlet for Persecutor.
    -it feeds Stalker.
    -it can make some crazy plays with Shade (whether combined with Ritual or not).

    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Throst54/Popeye79:

    I agree that DS is a dead draw in the first 2/3 turns in the game, but so is Sinkhole in the mid/late game. This deck has enough early game explosiveness/disruption. Bob is the one that replaces Sinkhole, not Death's Shadow. Bob can be a crucial turn 2 play if you run a basic forest, at times where you normally would mulligan because you don't have acces to that second swamp (only a first turn seize). From that point the CA comes into play.

    I won't ever play DS as a 4-off; only as a 3-off (for the mid/late game), so you won't see them in large numbers early game anyway....and even if you would, you'd still have all the beaters you normally run in Eva Green, thus you can still disrupt and lay down a quick beater. Reanimate can make some crazy plays in the mid/late game as well here. The only card you'll miss is Sinkhole and that card is still debatable, since he's only good early game and too slow against a large number of (aggro) decks.

    Anyway, I love the deck and I'll always try out new stuff for it. When I recieve my foils I'll just playtest it and see how it works out.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Quote from Throst54
    About Death's Shadow-
    Its only truly good when your at 8-5 life... which in all honestly legacy decks are fast enough these days that you dont need to bring yourself down that far.

    And if you are going to bring yourself down that low, I wouldnt do it with confidant because its not controllable enough. I'd pull him and replace him with Hatred and Skeletal Scrying.... Basically you end up moving away from being Tempo Sui (eva green) to just straight Suicide.


    Well, I accept your opinion on this, but I don't agree with your statements. It's definately not the goal to bring yourself down to 8 (or less) life as fast as possible; then you'd play it the wrong way anyway. Death's Shadow is just an insane top deck beater that can suddenly turn the game to your favor and beat for the win (for instance next to a free Stalker). Even if you're at 9 life, you'd still have 4/4 creature for only one mana and don't tell me that's bad Wink

    It's not a problem at all to be at 8 life with thoughtseize, reanimate, snuff out and dark confidant; in some games the lifeloss from Bob isn't that terrible at all, which means you'll have straight CA without any serious damage; other games Bob will hurt you more, but you still have CA and the more it hurts you, the better Death's Shadow will be in the end. Bob is just straightforward and always feels kind of risky to play, but it's a lot more of a threat with Death's Shadow in your deck.

    It's all fine what people think about this card, but at least I'm going to test it as a 3-off with Bob (and reanimate). He only gets bigger and bigger without being graveyard dependent like Stalker. It's life-dependent. To me it seems like a perfect mid/late game beater for Eva Green, period.

    Death's Shadow isn't associated with a strategy or combo; the only strategy you need to have is playing sui black, which is what we do (only with a green splash for Goyf, Pulse/Grip).

    I'd rather have more speed (CA from Bob) in the early mid game instead of hoping to draw the right stuff at the right time after a godly starting hand.

    I've already ordered 3 foils of Death's Shadow and I'll test it to death, with Bob. 3x Bob/3x Stalker, 0x Top, 0x Sinkhole.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Quote from popeye79
    extirpate has been really good for me lately. reanimator can't counter it, and you should have enought time to win before they can reanimate again. lands just keels over to loosing their loam, hitting trop islands in canadian thresh prevents them from playing any threats. hitting bridge from below will slow dredge down considerably. i've even extirpated a squee from bant-survival to prevent him from gaining any CA.


    And then we have Perish against zoo, survival, countertop Cool

    About the Thoughtseize-Inquisition split -> I'm going to test them together this week to see how it works out. I'm thinking about a 4/2 split or a 3-3 split, as 6 one drop discard spells feel solid to me.

    I can't help you any further with the depths/hexmage combo in Eva Green as I've never played it and I haven't heard a lot about the combo in Eva Green.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Edit: What do you guys think about Death's Shadow in Eva Green builds that play Dark Confidant without Top. Let's say 2/3 Dark Confidant, 2/3 Death's Shadow, together with the cards you usually run in Eva Green (Snuff Out, Tombstalker, Hippy, Thoughtseize, fetchlands etc). No Sinkholes. I don't know, but I just saw this card and thought: 'wow, this could be awesome for the Bob-without-Top criminals among us!

    The cards fits in our deck (which is suicide) and it's another beater. Reanimate as a 1/2-off seems to make even more sense here and it looks more brutal than ever, with CA from Bob.



    The list would be something like this (I call it 'Eva
    Death's')



    Gatekeeper main can be either replaced by Pulse or Jitte (!), depending on your meta and playstyle.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Quote from jamis
    The life-loss does hurt, I agree, and that's why I went 3/2 instead of 4/1 (though, I may switch that depending on the meta), but I feel the card that will be more relevant in the majority of situations, should be the card you run more of.


    So in what meta would you want to switch from a 3-2 thoughtseize/inquisition split to a 4-1 split? In a meta full of aggro? If so, then a 3-2 split or even 3-3 split between thoughtseize/inquisition might be better here. I don't understand why you'd run 4 thoughtseize in an aggro-ish meta when we have acces to Inquisition or 4 thoughtseize in a combo meta when we have acces to Duress. Too much lifeloss is bad for us as well, as we already lose life because of Snuff Out and 7/8 fetches.

    You have to come with a tight explanation why you'd run 4 thoughtseize over 3. 'Versatility' while you always lose 2 life with Thoughtseize is a bad argument here.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck] The Gate
    Quote from Barl, Artificer
    Inquisition of kozilek is not always better than seize. It can't grab FoW. It can't grab natural order. It can't grab tendrils or ad nauseam or IGG. Its great in some MUs but pitiful in others.


    Duress can; that's why I think a split between IOK and Duress has potentional; it's at least something to think about if you care about too many lifeloss (which can easily make the difference between losing or winning). I don't mind losing life from Snuff Out, but with Thoughtseize I realise I often grab spells that IOK could have taken away too (and he does that for free). I'd consider something like a 3-3 split between IOK and Duress. IOK for the aggro pieces (thus mostly low cmc spells), Duress for the combo/control pieces (thus often higher cmc spells). It also depends on your strategy/goal. IOK can grab all the cheap threats you should worry about and then you still have snuff out, gatekeeper, pulse for extra creature removal when needed (including your own beaters) and hymn, hippy and duress that can all get rid of FOW, Tendrils, Natural Order, Ad Nauseum and so on. Sinkhole together with Wasteland are a nightmare for many decks as well and they can slow them down significantly.

    I do agree that Thoughtseize is most versatile, but is it really always worth losing 2 life? I don't think so. IOK does what it does, so does Duress and since we already tend to run 5/6 one drop discard spells you can split those cards for different purposes instead of versatility and lifeloss. You're playing a tempo deck that wants to beat/win quickly, not a control deck that needs to get rid of mid/late game pieces during your first few turn(s) when you want to take the lead and put pressure.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Quote from Throst54
    Thoughtseize ALWAYS has the most potential to do damage because it can grab the most. When will Inquisition be better than seize? When youre in a straight aggro environment where all the decks curve out at 3cc.
    Eva Green is a suicide deck.


    I said I'm just going to test Inquisition as a 4-off in place of Thoughtseize. I know more about its performance (in conjunction with a 2-off Duress) after testing.

    There are way too many times that you just pick a swords or other low cmc threat with Thoughtseize; let's say a goyf. Inquisition does the same thing here and I feel more comfortable using Reanimate after free discard; it's just another advantage and it depends on your playstyle/strategy as well.

    I don't think the lifeloss from Thoughtseize is always worth it at all. A deck that depends on higher than 3cmc spells is bad anyway and will die to the disruptive speed of Eva Green. We have more than enough disruption against combo; again: hippy, hymn to tourach, duress, sinkhole. Those are the key cards that get rid of almost everything. We have Pulse too. I keep repeating myself this way, but after testing I'll know more of it; maybe I like it, maybe I don't. I play cards that work for me (and my meta), not because 'it's better in general' or because 'we are playing a suicide deck'. I take the lifeloss more serious than ever.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Quote from jamis
    Also Inquisition of Kozilek is great. It will definitely replace Duress in my build. I'm going to continue the 3/2 split, but may go to 4/1 or 4/2 later on.


    The whole point of playing Inquisition of Kozilek in Eva Green is because it's a very functional early game/first turn play, without any lifeloss. We have enough discard/removal/disruption that gets rid of the higher cmc spells. Also we already slow down our opponents with Sinkhole, Wasteland, Hymn, Hippy and then we haven't even talked about Pulse. This is why Inquisition of Kozilek just seems to make more sense than Thoughtseize (no lifeloss, the perfect first turn/early game one drop discard spell for a tempo orientated deck like Eva Green). We already lose life for goodness (tempo/CA) with Snuff Out and all the fetches.

    Early game/First turn I'd rather grab a swords, goblin piledriver/lackey, vial, counterbalance or whatever kind of spell.

    A 3/2 Inquisition-Thoughtseize split seems more logical to me than a 3/2 Thoughtseize/Inquisition split.

    Inquisition makes more sense in early game (which is why I'm going to playtest it as a 4-off), while Thoughtseize has more potentional mid/late game (that's why I play 2x Duress #instead of Thoughtseize# next to Inquisition, for added discard that can get rid of the higher cmc stuff as well, next to Pulse). I can't wait to test it.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Deck]Eva Green
    Guys, have you ever thought about replacing Thoughtseize with Inquisition of Kozilek?

    Thoughtseize is great, but Inquisition does basically the same thing without the lifeloss. Too much lifeloss is just bad, especially now the meta is shifted more and more towards aggro where every point of life counts more than ever (we need to be able to give a good game against Zoo as well, at least that's my opinion).

    Snuff Out is still great in Eva Green, but together with Thoughtseize and all the fetches the lifeloss is just bad in general. There's no replacement for Snuff Out (tempo reasons), but there is a replacement for Thoughtseize.

    Why would you care about picking a 4 (or higher) cmc card during your first turn(s) when we have Hippy, Hymn, Duress (as a 1/2-off) and Sinkhole. All these cards are played early/early mid game. Then we still have Maelstrom Pulse as 2/3-off (and it can hit planeswalkers and other permanents).

    You want to pick the cheap spells/cheap, annoying creatures to make room for your own cheap spells/beaters (like shade for instance). We are playing a tempo deck.

    It's just my view on it and I'd like to playtest it soon (-4 Thoughtseize + 4 Inquisition of Kozilek, + 2 Duress).

    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on [Primer] Team America (BUG Delver)
    Quote from Double_Death
    what do you think about this SB ?



    Personally i like this SB i made.


    If you like it, then don't change it Tongue Sideboards are meta dependent, so there really isn't a good or wrong here...just make sure that it suits your main deck.

    Extirpate is card disadvantage; I'd prefer EE, but again it's meta dependent. Pernicious Deed is more of a control card and doesn't really fit in this tempo orientated deck.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    Avatar of Shadow,

    Personally I didn't replace Hippy for Gatekeeper. I play Vesper Green without Sinkholes and currently without Snuff Outs; instead I'm playing Dark Confidants, SDTs, Gateekeepers and Pulses (Pulse instead of Jitte). The deck is more controllish with card advantage from Bob + Gatekeeper and it's able to filter your draws with SDT. It works and I've great results with this change. I'm playing Nantuko Shade a 4-off (for pressure/tempo reasons).

    You need to play smart with Bob/SDT (timing is most important). I side-in Jitte against burn/zoo. Too much dumb mistakes against certain decks can be fatal in the end.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    Popeye,

    After your 1-2 cmc disruption Gatekeeper and Snuff Out are able to kill 2 creatures at the same time for only 3 mana; you've cleaned the board and you're in favor again because of Gatekeeper.

    I don't see any countertop or combo in my meta. Sometimes you have to choose between Gatekeeper or Hippy and in many cases Gatekeeper can be the better play first, depending on what you see.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    Quote from Drekavac


    1) Actually, I'm not sold on Dark Confidant either. It is true that the deck needs some form of card advantage after you're out of steam and start playing Top Deck Magic. However, I feel he imposes heavy design constraints on the deck.

    2) Most of the lists I've seen with Bob play some combination of Smother, Diabolic Edict and even Gatekeeper of Malakir as their dedicated removal cards with a number of Maelstrom Pulse's added for good measure. In what, think you will agree, is a very Goyf-centric format most of these spells, if not all of them, are outclassed by Snuff Out in that regard.

    Personally, I think that the reasoning behind this is kind of obvious but I will go into detail about it if it can help the subject along, but the condensed version would be that playing any number of Dark Confidants reduces the number of Snuff Outs I can reasonably play in my deck and that is not something I can really get behind.

    3) Because I don't play Dark Confidant I always mulligan aggressively with this deck, looking for good early plays relevant to the matchup or are just plain ruthless if I'm facing an unknown opponent.

    4) If you are playing him, and I imagine you are otherwise why bring it up, how has he been working for you and how has he influenced the rest of your list?


    1) Dark Confidant has a big influence on how the deck plays; he isn't the right choice for classic Eva, period. Why? Because Dark Confidant hurts way too much without SDT, especially with Stalkers/Snuff Outs. It doesn't fit in classic Eva because it isn't a threat (not in this deck); without SDT you never know what to expect from Bob. I've played him without SDT as a 2-off (like in Dyne's build), but he really hurts way too much to take the card serious (in classic Eva). You have to change many things in the deck and go to the controllish route to get more advantage from Bob and even then it's the question whether to run him or not.

    2) Reducing the number of Snuff Outs is not bad at all, but I would't cut them entirely for something else. I play Snuff Out as a 2-off in conjunction with a 3-off Gatekeeper. I really like Gatekeeper and the synergy it has with Snuff Out and the deck in general; both Snuff Out and Gatekeeper are capable to clean the board after the disruption (LD/Discard). Pulse does the same thing, only it's more versatile (thus less specific); It can hit everything relevant in the mid game; I run it as a 2-off in classic Eva (in the Jitte spot).

    3) Agreed. Mulligan is the way to go for.

    4) I can't answer this question for Dyne, but Dark Confidant can be a very desirable turn two play (because of the use of wastelands in the deck). Sometimes you have a killer starting hand, but with only a wasteland and swamp..and when you don't draw that third land you can always play Dark Confidant because it doesn't require double black mana....but once he joins the battlefield he starts hurting you the next turn(s) (3 damage for Hippy, 4 damage for Snuff Out, 8 damage for Stalker); every possible scenario has already occurred to me.

    Vesper Green can use Bob in conjunction with SDT, but the deck is much less tempo orientated.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Signs You've Been Playing Too Much Magic
    Quote from MmmChicken
    I had a dream the other night that combined magic and the winter olympics. It was weird... when I woke up I was really confused and actually thought magic was in the olympics for a second


    That's a cool dream Grin (and frustrating at the same time!)

    Dream on (Aerosmith).
    Posted in: the Speakeasy
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    posted a message on [Deck] Reanimator
    Doesn't a first turn Leyline destroy this deck? I like the deck lists, but I can imagine that it's way too easy too play around it, especially game 2 where people tend to side-in much graveyard hate against these kind of decks.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    Quote from popeye79
    but i also finaly got my set of entombs.

    don't know if i want to play the prosecutor list i posted or an animator. Slant

    opinions?


    What do you need a set of entombs for?
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    @ Practical Joke

    Never heard of Gatekeeper of Malakir? He is bomb against
    Reanimator.

    Nighthawk is awesome here too. They can both kill anything.

    You can counter our discard and disruption, but then we still have hippy who does keep the discard pressure going on, next to Gatekeeper/Nighthawk (Pulse). I can't see why it would be difficult for Eva Green to win, but I think it depends a lot on the build.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    Interesting discussion going on; lots of good arguments and good sights from everybody.

    I don't think you should mulligan immediately if you don't have a turn one play; not if you have strong turn two plays with enough black mana producers. Sometimes I mulligan when I don't have a turn one play, but that's mostly when I only have access to a single Wasteland and Verdant CC (which is really bad if you want to play Hymn or Sinkhole on turn 2). That's still where Bob shines though; it's mana efficient.

    I'd always crack the first fetch for a swamp cause I don't really mind bluffing when you can take the advantage of going first with your own playing. Always play your own game first.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    Quote from Avatar of Shadow
    What about just playing it as a 61 card deck? I don't think that 1 card will slow you down that much. I've always kept my deck at 61 and have had good results. Just a thought.


    61 cards are usually not a problem for the deck, you're right about that. I'll try to fit in Reanimate in my newest list (as a 1-off); should be awesome.

    @ aaronc123

    Congrats.

    Spiritmonger is nice, but it's too mana intensive for Eva Green (5 mana).
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    Quote from Patrunkenphat7
    I really, really don't like non-black basics because of my 4 Hymn, 4 Sinkhole, 3 Shade, and 2 Gatekeeper.


    A basic forest has never been a problem for me in straight B/G Eva Green, not even with 3 Gatekeepers. The use of non-black basics becomes more complicated when you add white and you can get mana screwed much more easily. I like the basic forest with Goyf and Pulse; no doubts about this at all.

    A basic forest (or plains) is really a bad idea for the deck if you use 3 colors (B/G/W); everything will lose its strenght instead of being more agressive or powerful with Vindicate.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    @ Fade to Black

    Glad you like the deck; To be honest I like Eva Green the best without a white splash. I really like the addition of Vindicate, but it does make the deck more vulnerable to non-basic hate and it doesn't seem worth with the addition of Maelstrom Pulse in straight B/G (if you dig versatility like me). I seem to like Pulse as much as I like Vindicate and it's much easier to cast with a straight B/G mana base (4x bayou, 1x forest). Shade also loses some of its strenght with a white splash; 5x swamp is definately more solid. I really like Shade and in fact I dig a 4-off instead of 3-off in my newest list; I'll post that list.

    @ Avatar of Shadow

    Reanimate does very well as a 1-off. It's just another win condition and useful early game, mid game or late game; it gives you another creature/beater next to your other creature(s)/beater(s) for only 1 mana and 2 life (depending on which creature you pick). However, I don't seem to like a 3-off Seize; definately must be a 4-off, which means -1 Reanimate.

    In my newest list I cutted Hippy as I'm not really happy with him these days; he shines with dark ritual on turn 1, but I'd rather see Nighthawk, Gatekeeper and/or Shade in the mid game instead Hippy. Hippy needs free space to do what he's good at; that's why he's better against combo, but not against aggro...and the meta is shifted more towards aggro these days.

    This is my newest list and I like it.

    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    I'm currently testing a B/G list with slight adjustments:



    This is what I did:

    -1 Thoughtseize +1 Reanimate.

    Reanimate is great as a 1-off and since I'm already running 2x Duress next to Thoughtseize I decided to cut one for this awesome card.

    -1 Marsh flats +1 Bayou.

    I'm playing a 3-off Stalker instead of a 4-off and 2x Maelstrom Pulse next to 4x Goyf, so the extra Bayou is very nice (even next to the 1-off Forest).

    -1 Shade -1 Tombstalker +2 Gatekeeper of Malakir.

    Diabolic edict on a stick next to a 3-off Snuff Out.

    -2 Jitte +2 Maelstrom Pulse.

    I like Maelstrom Pulse for versatility, no more than a 2-off. It hits everything that your other cards couldn't hit. Solid card, it does what it does.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    Quote from jamis
    But then we're largely dependent on Sinkhole. I'd rather not have to depend on drawing multiple Sinkholes in order to lock an opponent out. This is not the goal of our deck.

    I'm not denying that Choke is a good card, it is. I run 3 in my Pox sideboard. But our sideboard should have synergy with the rest of our maindeck, and slowing the game down really doesn't fit in this deck. That's why I'm thinking the Trap is good -- it puts large creatures into play for a low cost; this is what our deck wants.


    Summoning Trap is a solid choice in a build with enough creatures/beaters; it's definately fast and straightforward, while Choke is slower and more controllish.

    Sinkhole slows down your opponent and helps to fuel Stalker. I dig Vindicate as a 3-off next to Sinkhole; you'll always draw early game LD; enough, never too much. Sinkhole as a 4-off isn't always enough; you need it in multiples to get really aggressive and straightforward, otherwise it's pretty much a dead card. Vindicate makes Sinkhole more aggressive and the extra disruption/LD is very, very desirable and feels more solid in general; Vindicate can also act like Maelstrom Pulse (without the drawback); I recommend a 3-off Vindicate in Eva Green (3 scrubland, 4 bayou).

    @Dyne

    Canadian Thresh and Eva Green are both very good decks against combo.

    Eva Green is one of those decks that can do very well against most decks, especially with all our SB choices. Maybe except against burn (but then we still have nighthawk and jitte).
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    @ Avatar of Shadow

    I definately like Vindicate (as a 3-off), mainly for added LD next to sinkhole, hymn and wasteland.

    I also like the fact that Vindicate destroys other permanents as well (if needed)...every game is different; use Vindicate for LD or use it to get rid of something else in the mid game, depending on what your opponent brings
    to the table and depending on your own playing.

    Sinkhole is always a 4-off. Hymn to Tourach is a 4-off. Wasteland is a 4-off. Vindicate is a 3-off, next to them. Sometimes you don't draw enough sinkholes and/or hymns early game...this is another thing where Vindicate shines; to destroy a land that Sinkhole couldn't destroy or to eliminate a permanent that Thoughtseize/Hymn couldn't take away earlier. That's why you play Vindicate as a 3-off and not as a 4-off.

    I find hippy to be even better with 3x Vindicate around him; Hippy shines with lots of LD and other disruption.

    Your list looks very good, but 4x Smother should be 4x Snuff Out or at least a mix between Diabolic Edict/Snuff Out.

    Snuff Out is way too good and too fast for the deck to be ignored.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    Quote from Avatar of Shadow
    The only green I run is for Goyf and Pulse.


    Agreed.

    Personally I'm running a 3-off Vindicate next
    to a 1-off Maelstrom Pulse (instead of a 4-off
    Vindicate).

    Tombstalker works best for me as a 4-off.

    This is the list I'm currently running:

    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    Putrid Leech is most used as a 1-off, next to Shade.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Tempo Thresh (RUG Delver)
    Quote from Dyne
    Have you ever tried to destroy a Nimble Mongoose in Legacy.


    Diabolic edict, Gatekeeper of Malakir.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    Quote from Dyne
    That doesn't make any sense at all. Your blaming the synergy of Stalker on the fact that you played with Shade?

    Personally, if you saved your rituals for Shade instead of Stalker, you were playing the deck wrong.

    And Shade is a great beater against control decks, because not only can you play him turn 1 (instead of 3 like Doran) he can potentially take out opponents Goyfs.

    I'm not in favor of the White splash, I think it adds too many inconsistencies, and looks like it folds to Tempo Thresh because of the 3 color requirement.


    Shade is a 2/1 creature when it enters the battlefield, thus it dies very easily against burn. Without ritual(s) there are too many situations where Shade is just too small to compete with the rest on the field or to survive burn spells, especially when you're tight on mana; after it enters the battlefield it needs another turn to really do something. Doran doesn't die as easily (if not at all) by burn and he's strong enough to compete with most other creatures on the field; it's always a 5/5 creature; Shade isn't by far...talking about inconsistency.

    Add 4 scrublands, 3 Dorans and 3 Vindicates and I'd like to hear your opinion by then.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    Quote from popeye79
    and if they're going to swords my 11/11 (or bigger) terravore, i'll still have a doran stalker or goyf bashing in, along with a much bigger life cushion. and if they don't have the removal ready because they've wasted it on the other creatures, well, i win.


    Agreed.

    I personally don't mind opposing swords, since getting free life isn't that bad.

    2x Duress is a solid choice.

    Don't forget about Hippy; he's another threat that has to be answered and maybe even one of the most important ones against control/combo. When he gets killed, you'll have Stalkers, Goyfs and Dorans next to your own removal/disruption (no 2/1 Shades anymore that need the mana/rituals to get bigger than they actually are). Shades die too easily against burn, period. Although they can grow, they aren't big threats from themselves; neither is hippy without enough disruption/big guys around him.

    Without Shade and with Doran you can finally make better use of your rituals by casting very cheap Stalkers; that's why I seem to like Stalker better as a 4-off now instead of 3-off.

    How is your match-up vs Team America?
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
  • 0

    posted a message on Eva Green
    Glad you took the Bobs out Smile

    I like Hippy better with Vindicate (added LD/Disruption). The LD and discard together together with snuff outs definately seem to make more room for Hippy to shine. If you can keep your opponent off lands a couple of turns (or even longer), than Hippy seems a very strong play, especially against combo/control (but aggro as well).

    Hippy is good with more LD/Discard, which is why I think he's better than Nighthawk, especially in Doran Suicide. Eva Green plays Shade instead of Doran and no Vindicates. Hippy needs big guys around him and lots of disruption to get the space he needs; and when he dies to removal, then you suddenly have your big guys that can end the game faster than Hippy.

    Looking at your deck list:

    What about -1 Snuff Out, -1 Duress + 2 Gatekeeper? Gatekeeper is card-advantage and it would be a solid choice to run next to Hippy. It also gives you more options combined with Snuff Out (it's like a 3/2 split between snuff out and diabolic edict -> on legs).

    Nighthawk is less disruptive than both Hippy and Gatekeeper and fits less in the game plan as well. It's nice for lifegain, but I'd rather end the game more quickly with disruption and free Stalkers.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
  • 0

    posted a message on Eva Green
    So how do you like Swords over Snuff Out?

    I like Vindicate as a 3-off mainly for added LD next to Sinkhole, Hymn to Tourach and Wasteland. These cards together are insane. Tombstalker is a beast and I seem to like it as a 4-off instead of 3-off. Not a problem to cast a second one soon after the first one at all, especially since you don't have to spend your rituals on early/mid game shades anymore Smile

    Vindicate seems to make the deck how it is supposed to be. It feels like the deck is stronger with Vindicate; lots of disruption, cheap stalkers, big dorans, big goyfs, annoying hippies that keep the random discard pressure going on (how it supposed to be in this deck).
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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    posted a message on Eva Green
    @ Popeye

    I'm back to the white splash, only for Vindicate this time (not STP). 3x Vindicate seems like the perfect number in the deck next to your sinkholes, wastelands and hymns. It's a 3 cmc spell; maybe that's why 3 seems to be the right number Rolleyes

    I'm also thinking more and more about converting the deck to Doran-Suicide (debatable slot = Vindicate, the always mana-intensive/dependent Shade = the always great Doran.

    Playing with the 3-off Vindicate (without STP, but with Snuff Out) was a great experience and honestly I can't wait to test Doran in the Shade slot, as a 3-off as well.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
  • 0

    posted a message on Eva Green
    Quote from Avatar of Shadow
    Has anyone ever thought about Phyrexian Arena?


    No.

    -) Phyrexian arena requires 3 mana, which is one more than dark confidant. The deck is about speed and laying down threats...phyrexian arena is not exactly a threat and dark confidant isn't a threat either (at least not in Eva Green), since he doesn't add anything to the game plan. Dark Confidant is inconsistent without SDT and with Snuff Outs (3/4x) and Tombstalkers (3/4x); sometimes you'll be lucky drawing lands or very low cmc spells first, other times you'll kill yourself because of way too many damage in short time (which is why I don't like him in the deck). As a 'non-threat' he also eats up too many valuable space.

    -) Phyrexian arena makes you lose 1 life every upkeep, while Dark Confidant can give you cards for free (1st card a land= 0 damage). This is what makes Dark Confidant so good, especially in a deck with already very low cmc spells.

    -) Phyrexian arena is a lot more difficult to get rid of...(it's an enchantment). When the lifeloss is getting too much, you can't sacrifice it (unless you run Seal of Primordium next to it, but that's a really bad strategy to begin with). You can always get rid of Bob, mostly by attacking/blocking and it's easier to kill for your opponent as well (which I found a plus in this deck).

    -) Phyrexian arena can't swing (for 2) like Bob can.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
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