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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from Stax4Lyfe »
    Sup peeps, kind of new here and just got into EDH, so I thought the best place to go was the one that was specifically NOT about EDH

    Hi
    That's definitely the right way to approach the format.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Are Invocations equal to gold borders in tourney play?
    From what we've seen, these don't have black or white borders and are currently illegal for tournament play (MTR 3.3). Like LimDul79 said above, there's certainly going to be some kind of update to allow these for tournament play.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from Hermes_ »
    What's the issue about them being tournament legal?
    They don't have black or white borders.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from Life1ess »
    Sweet Jesus those Amonkhet masterpiece edition Force of Wills are going to be expensive.
    They're still going to be significantly cheaper than EMA foils, if the legacy players I know are any indication.

    Amonkhet masterpieces are some truly ugly cardstock. The art is nice, but the border and the card name/type line font are atrocious. They're also going to have to force a rules change seeing as they're not currently legal for tournament play.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on 5 Color Generals: Goodstuff or Legit?
    Quote from LouCypher »
    Yo, serious question, always wanted to know this. How did you find this topic, and once you did find it, how did you not see it hasn't seen posts in almost 6 years time?
    I usually assume google and new user respectively. Search for something, forum thread pops up, you have something to say, so you make an account and post. If you're not a forum regular, it's easy to miss the time stamp.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Well, how was YOUR box? (MM17 Edition)
    Drafted my box last night. Standouts were Snapcaster, Misty, Damnation, Goblin Guide, then a few more things in the $5-7 range. Other mythics were PiF and Entreat, foil rares were Wort, the Raidmother and Zealous Conscripts. One Path, one Inquisition. Lost value on it overall, but that's not really a surprise and the draft was a lot of fun.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from JWK »
    Aside from potential value, MM 2017 is indeed a very fun set to draft. Up there with Innistrad, and just behind the first Conspiracy set in terms of being great to draft, in my opinion. They did good with this one.
    How did the second Conspiracy compare to the first? I drafted the first one a few times but never got around to the second. Half searching for another box for a draft night, because that was a nice change of pace from the usual EDH night.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on [[Primer]] Mono-R Control with Jaya Ballard!
    "2, T: Draw a card (kind of)" is still a decent effect. It's not like the first ability is doing nothing for you. That kind of card advantage is what red has been getting for a few years now, and those cards have been in and out of the deck. Eventually turning into acceleration on top of card advantage is nice upside. It would have been a snap include a couple years ago. There may be enough good options to not need it by now.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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    posted a message on Magic Set Sales Statistics?
    They haven't released that information for many years. There's some information out there for sets maybe as far up as Urza's, but I haven't found anything more recent and even that wasn't officially confirmed by WotC.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Drafted my MM17 box. Notable pulls were Snapcaster, Misty, Damnation, Goblin Guide, and a few other assorted little things. Ended up with a super low to the ground naya build featuring 5x Avacyn's Pilgrim and 3x Fists of Ironwood. One game involved leading on Pilgrim, then following with Fists + Pilgrim for the next three turns. Tons of fun to draft.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Mazirek Theorycrafting
    Quote from Gashnaw »
    I think you need 2 persist creatures.
    -Sac
    -All crature get +1/+1
    -Perist takes effect.
    You're wrong. Both Mazirek and persist trigger at the same time. You control both triggers, so you stack them how you want. Put Mazirek on the stack followed by persist and your persist creature is back on board by the time Mazirek's trigger resolves.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Post your pimp decks here!
    That's fair. It's unusual to see any number of fetches besides 3 or 7 in a three color deck (aside from budget concerns, which are obviously not at play here) so I was curious.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Wanting to Build Golgari
    Quote from Gashnaw »
    While it is not a major question. Would Reyhan + Mickey + Sac outlet work? Undying brings creature back with a +1/+1. Sac. Move counter to another creature, no counters, undying brings it back. Or would it see the counter first prevnting undying from being amazing?
    Doesn't work for multiple reasons. Reyhan doesn't actually move counters around, even if that's how people are likely to play in practice. She sees a creature with counters die then her triggered ability puts an equal number of counters on a creature. In addition, the intervening if in undying's trigger just looks to see if an undying creature had one or more +1/+1 counters when it died, not whether it has any while in the GY (which is a feat on its own, seeing as Skullbriar is the only creature in the game that can currently do that). Even if you could somehow move the counters around, it would have to happen before the creature died.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on [[Primer]] Mono-R Control with Jaya Ballard!
    Quote from MuzzleMuffin »
    Little off topic, but I am definitely excited for the enemy fetches reprint in MM17. Can finally grab that Arid Mesa and Scalding Tarn for the Crucible of Worlds synergy.
    That's one of those engines that feels so good when it gets going. Crucible is already really solid here, which maybe makes it easier to justify spending on fetches for a mono-colored deck?

    I'm optimistic about Amonkhet. We know cycling is coming back and there's already a spoiled card that triggers on discarding. That design space is definitely interesting for Jaya.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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    posted a message on Post your pimp decks here!
    Looks nice. I went top to bottom and was shaking my head about foiling without picking up duals, but your reserved/unfoilable section came through.

    Any reason for not including Polluted Delta or Flooded Strand?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from Darcykun »
    Should probably stop while you're on a ahead, these boxes have been crazy high variance. Seems like yours was very good though, congrats.
    I got to draft two boxes my friends bought (the best way to play limited haha) and we saw 3 fetches total, no Goyf or Snappy. One guy got a Lilly and there were a smattering of ~$10 cards but that was it.
    Since I didn't have any investment I got to try some weird things with the limited format, I ended up with a deck with 5 Avacyn's Pilgrim that I really enjoyed. It was so all in that I either won on like, turn 4 or just straight lost the game. But it was a fun ride.
    I'm doing this with my box Tuesday. Everyone playing is primarily an EDH player who rarely drafts so I'm expecting it to be a bizarre collection of terrible decks. I'm looking forward to it a lot. I'm hoping for more value than either of those boxes, but I also already have everything of value in the set so it's just for trading/selling anyways.

    In the continuing saga of how I'm wasting my money this month, I've upgraded my computer's GPU and added a liquid cooling system so I can run the new Mass Effect better. This is what happens when you give a nerd who likes electronics and always wanted a really nice computer growing up a decent job a decent job.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Dispersal Shield
    Depends on your group. If you see games end with Tooth and Nail or Craterhoof Behemoth on a regular basis, this is not reliable enough to stop them. If you're just trying to protect a combo or win con from disruption/removal, this is probably solid.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Random Card of the Day - Jolrael, Empress of Beasts
    Decent cantrip for GY focused decks. Worse than other options basically everywhere else.

    Quote from LouCypher »
    Still can't talk. Still Andromeda.
    Me too.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Random Card of the Day - Jolrael, Empress of Beasts
    I'm sure there's a good place for it. It's fairly efficient and effectively gives tokens/weenies haste and a buff. That's not enough for most decks, but this is one of the vehicles I can see being played with some success.

    There's also the obvious answer of King Macar, the Gold-Cursed, where a lot of the vehicles are snap includes.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Went to Target to buy toothpaste and parchment paper. Ended up impulse buying a 55" UHD TV.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on What lands are people feeling/playing with?
    For legacy, some EDH, and the occasional foray into modern I use Euro lands, specifically these 5
    For my Jaya list, I currently use Snow-Covered Mountains but am considering jumping over to this (mostly so I can foil them out while keeping an art I like)
    Current:
    Planned:
    For other EDH decks, it's mostly Snow-Covered or ZEN full arts. I'm less picky about those because they don't stay around all that long.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on Searching for Non-Basic Lands to ETB via Non-Creatures
    Much more color restrictive than most of the options mentioned so far, but Wargate is a solid land tutor (with many other uses).
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Do high priced cards ever drop to reasonable prices?
    Quote from FTW1987 »
    The Reserved List protects against that too. Not only can these cards never be reprinted, but Wizards cannot print new cards that makes them obsolete, to prevent their market value from declining for collectors.
    Source? I've never heard that before and it's not part of the reprint policy. They won't print functionally identical cards and have doubled down on that, but I have seen anything that prohibits better cards. Not trying to call you out, trying to make sure I have a complete picture of WotC communications on the RL.

    Regardless of that particular policy, I can't see them ever printing something that obsoletes Workshop so I wouldn't hold your breath either way.
    Posted in: Casual & Related Formats
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    posted a message on What's the Point?/In It Just to Get A Win
    Quote from ArbitersHeir »
    There is a quote in Christopher Nolans The Dark Knight. In reference to the joker he says some men just want to see the world burn. That same saying applies to uber competetive types you seek to understand. They could care less who likes them or not. They simply want the whole table to be smashed as early as possible. The reasoning is simple they simply enjoy winning and doing it so quickly they get that shock factor. Now in my opinion they simply enjoy pissing other people off. I also believe that it may or may not be linked to that competition edge they have. I have played against many of these types. I have nothing against them anymore. I used to hate playing them even avoid it. Then I just realized if I want to play at LGS locally I need answers. So I streamlined my blue and white control deck to handle most threats. While its not topshelf it certainly can hold it owns against these types. These players aren't going to change its simply against there nature. They want the shock and awe. You can avoid them or simply beat them at there own game. As a long time EDH player I understand your questions. Though lately I've seen less of these decks and more a push to return to casual decks. So I hope it helps you see why they play that style. Good luck!
    You seem to be confusing competitive players and ********s, which can be found in the casual parts of the playerbase too. The general consensus that I've seen from competitive players is that stomping an unprepared table isn't fun for them either. You can find several posts in this thread saying as much.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on What's the Point?/In It Just to Get A Win
    Quote from VaultTechy »
    There's kind of a convenient cycle that toxic EDH players get to spin through when it comes to stuff like this, and I actually just finished discussing it last night. If they get a quick, easy win then they're all "tch, nothin personnel kid.." but if they get blown out, they ride the high road of "you're such a tryhard!! EDH is meant to just be fun!" and thusly they get to dodge actually learning and developing as a player because they've got a 1-2 combo of "you're the problem here"

    Any cards that aren't on the banlist are legal for a reason - if they've got Armageddon or Winter Orb then you should have ample access to counters and removal to keep yourself in the game. Some games you won't draw into an answer and that's fine, but if a trend of losses establishes itself then it can't be blamed on luck, tryhards, cheese cards, RNGesus or the day of the week anymore - it's time to either get better or play tables that are of a similar skill level.

    Just as it would be toxic to bring Legacy Miracles down to a learn-to-play night and mop up kids, it's also toxic to take a casual deck and skillset, sit at a table with people who play competitively, and expect them to all slow down so you get to keep up. This guy bought the cards, studied the strats, wrote the list, practiced and earned every bit of the wins he's getting, but he's supposed to, what, keep Orb in his hand and take hits because you don't like losing?

    I know it's not a nice opinion but it's, in my opinion, a fair one.
    Equating what cards you like to play with skill is disingenuous and the "anything legal is fair" mindset has never been a universal one. It's possible to have a good understanding of the game, solid skills, and a deep card pool without playing competitively. That's doubly true for a format like EDH, which was created by a group of judges and remains a predominately casual format. Playing competitively is not wrong and neither is not wanting your EDH games to be full of prison elements, regardless of skill level or resources.

    As an aside, "bought the cards" has virtually nothing to do with skill. If your group is full of people playing draft chaff and you buy storm, you're probably going to win more. It doesn't magically make you better at the game. Having access to more cards != more skilled.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on What's the Point?/In It Just to Get A Win
    Quote from Ashmit »
    Is this fun for some?
    Yes.

    I'm cutting your post way down because this is really what it boils down to. Some people enjoy playing very cutthroat games of EDH. Optimizing a 100 card singleton deck to consistently win quickly and through a multiplyer game's worth of disruption is a different kind of challenge than doing the same for a 60 card deck, either duel or multiplayer. Slow build ups to battlecruiser boardstates don't appeal to everyone just like trying to combo out through three players worth of disruption doesn't appeal to everyone. If they're enjoying those games and it's a social experience, that's as within the spirit of EDH as a game of smashing 7-drops together. It's only problematic when either of those groups is trying to force their playstyle on a group that sees it differently.

    I'm not part of that crowd so we don't play together. They wouldn't necessarily enjoy the kinds of games I'm looking for when I sit down to play EDH and I'm not interested in what they want. The format is big enough that both groups can coexist.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Looking for a new EDH deck idea!
    Quote from Mercury01 »
    Why not go with reanimator, since this thread is over two years old?
    The OP wasn't even active the last time this thread was necroed.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Staples Binder Guide
    Quote from darkeshrine »
    This seems like something that just isn't worth it for someone that's played Magic for a decade or more that has a very large and extensive collection. A new player, just getting into the format, could benefit from this greatly and could easily adapt to the system as they venture into the format.
    As someone who played magic for a decade or more, had a bunch of decks together, and did something similar to this, it was absolutely worth it. I have a large chunk of cards I wouldn't have otherwise gotten thanks to unloading a lot of duplicates - things like Nether Void, The Abyss, and various foils. It's also made picking up new cards much cheaper and let me build constantly without having to spend a significant amount. I still have a fair number of duplicates so I can support other formats, but I haven't regretted downsizing my collection at all in the several years since I did it.

    Rather than maintaining partial decks with shared staples, I just consolidated everything into a "box," actually a shelving unit now, using all one kind of sleeve. I keep things sorted by color → creature/noncreature → alphabetically (one big reason a binder wouldn't work). I build decks when I feel like building decks. If I like a list, I'll write it down and be able to build it again later. More often, I just build around themes and recreate decks slightly differently each time I revisit them. I only keep 2-3 decks together at any given time, so there's not much overlap between them. Any overlap that does occur is dealt with by keeping an index card with the overlapping cards in my deck box and pulling them before games, which typically only takes a minute or so.

    This seems slightly more organized but less flexible. I can also see how this would drive you towards using the same cards over and over. Without more binders there's a cap on how many cards can be included, which would bug me a little. Whichever way you end up going I definitely recommend trying out some kind of system like this, especially if you prefer deck building to deck tuning.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Is it considered bad form to...
    Quote from XeroxedFool »
    I think youre both basically saying I'm not taking into account people who want to play 'cut throat'? Both also mention a mismatch of players being the real issue.

    I agree that people need to communicate on what type of games they want to have. I'm saying that for me I would not enjoy the specific example mentioned in the OP or other cases of Early, and emphasis on early here, one-shot kills. I would indeed consider it bad form. The only reason I posted was to provide example of people who don't enjoy that style of play and why. I came across as... crappy or whatever. That was not my intent, so I apologize for that. I stand by my opinion that early one-shots are lame, but I don't meant that to be offensive.
    Your initial response seemed very much in the spirit of "you're wrong for playing like that," which very rarely leads to any kind of good discussion. It pushes the conversation towards an us vs. them mentality, which happens way too often for my taste when people talk EDH online. I''m not sure I've ever seen anyone change their mind from an argument like that and there's really no reason the super casual and super competitive players can't coexist peacefully. I'm a very casual player when it comes to EDH and honestly don't understand the allure of competitive multiplayer. That doesn't make the people who disagree with me wrong. It does mean we probably shouldn't be playing together. I think we're more or less on the same page and your earlier comment came across a little more absolute than you intended.

    Quote from sH0opdAwoOp »
    That said, I just find myself curious - to those who consider themselves EDH purists (i.e. the format is not about winning, the format is about having "fun"). It seems like infinite combo is deemed uncool. And based on this thread creature-based alpha striking (a decidedly less powerful strategy) is uncool. I know that in many circles infect is deemed uncool. So what's left? Are mid-rangey value-based strategies the only thing that's acceptable?
    I'm good with anything as long as there's variety. I lean away from infinite combo personally but I'm not offended to run into it. If I'm playing against someone who's playing the same series of cards every game, or exclusively playing format powerhouses, I'm going to get bored with it quickly. It's common knowledge that a line of play like Buried Alive or Tooth and Nail into Mike/Trike or Deadeye/Palinchron is probably going to win the game, but it's boring as hell. I only get out to play once, maybe twice a week, so I want the games I play to be interesting. Seeing the same tired combos and win conditions doesn't do that for me. Pulling off a fast Sneak AttackBlightsteel Colossus is fun to see. Demonic Tutor into the same play every game is not.

    My current decks are Jaya Ballard, Task Mage control, some kind of awkward Daxos the Returned delay into large tokens, a Tana, the Bloodsower/Reyhan, Last of the Abzan combat tricks/creature buff, and a Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa/Tymna the Weaver hatebears. My group currently has a non-combo Breya, Etherium Shaper that aims to grind people out with artifact advantage, Oona, Queen of the Fae mill, Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker/Reyhan, Last of the Abzan counter shenanigans, Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis hug/chaos that aims to burn people out in the long game, Ghoulcaller Gisa zombie swarm, Vial Smasher the Fierce/Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist direct damage, and a few others I'm forgetting. Games can end to large creature swings, small creature swarms, general damage, direct damage, mill, soft locks (with some inevitable kill), and probably an infinite combo or two. Aside from everyone trying out the new general options, there's a lot of variety in decks and win conditions. A more competitive player would probably be bored to tears playing in my group, but it works for us.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Is it considered bad form to...
    Quote from XeroxedFool »
    I think that the attitude is all wrong in the OP and the first reply. "You're never gonna win if..." "take advantage of everything at your disposal.." are sayings that bring up red flags for me. Its the mindset of playing against everyone instead of with them. If you're whole group is playing with that mindset, why not be the vanguard for a more polite experience? I find games are more fun and memorable when everyone gets to play and interact. But Hey, thats just me.
    If your whole group is playing that mindset, that's great! Good for the group for finding the way they want to play and a bunch of like minded people. The format is big enough for different mindsets to coexist. The problem is when you show up to an unknown group with that mindset, or when the whole group isn't on the same page.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Is it considered bad form to...
    Like a lot of things in the format it depends on the group. Some are going to be entirely OK with that, some won't invite you back if you do it.

    I'm generally OK with it. I would get tired of someone doing it every game if they couldn't keep the momentum going and wipe out the rest of the table (at least occasionally, doesn't have to happen every game). Aggressive decks that can pull it off are a nice change of pace from the typical value train EDH deckbuilding. Assassin-like decks that take out a single player and then sit are not.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on A little help
    Quote from Chaoticist »
    I've tentatively decided on the combo of Lifespark Spellbomb and Eradicate, though that may eventually change to Enchanted Evening and Scour to avoid that weakness of Eradicate in not being able to get rid of black lands in that fashion.
    lands are colorless unless something changes their color, so I wouldn't worry about that. An swamp animated with Spellbomb is still a valid target for Eradicate.

    I would question how well this is going to do in general. Modern manabases tend to be nonbasic heavy, and you've got a pretty mediocre combo unless you can hit at least a couple lands in play with it.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on What happened today w/ all of the price jumps?!?!?!
    Quote from Raver »
    edit: scratch that, the issue might be a software one with the system behind TCGplayer: Crystal Commerce. It went down taking a lot of stores offline so i'm assuming that screws with the numbers.
    I would put money on this or something related to it. Crystal Commerce member site has been down for 20 hours when I post this. I'd guess either an automatic shift in pricing data as stores went down or opportunists relisting at higher prices when stocks disappeared. The alternative is a run of casual coin flip players suddenly making a run on 5ED Game of Chaos, which seems unlikely at best, or speculators trying to corner the market on that card, which seems even less likely. I wouldn't trust automatically generated pricing data for a day or two until there's more information about that.

    That said, a couple of those are probably actual demand, at least in part. That list includes some modern playable stuff not showing up in MM17 like Fulminator Mage and Ancient Stirrings, and Hardened Scales has gotten some attention as part of a BG artifact list (same reason for the jump in Rite of Passage).
    Posted in: Market Street Café
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from Life1ess »
    If you're selling locally there's not a lot of different IMO. Personally I expect a discount of some sort if I buy a full playset, but maybe I'm in the minority. Also, if you're mailing cards out you'll incur cost for each shipment, so you've either got to charge for shipping or raise your asking price to compensate.
    I'd generally expect some kind of discount on a playset as well. Like you mention, that doesn't mean the seller is taking a loss on it thanks to shipping costs.

    I'm honestly not sure when the last time I bought a playset from a single seller was. Aggregators like TCGPlayer have made bargain hunting a lot more painless, so even if I'm grabbing 4 of a card in an order it's rare that they're all coming from a single seller. I'm also mostly an EDH player, so it's not like I buy a lot of playsets to begin with.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Ascendant Evincar scrub help
    To elaborate a little, always check oracle text when you're unsure. All old legends now have creatures types, because legend[ary] is now a supertype rather than a creature type. There have also been a lot of little edits to creatures over the years. A lot of old creatures that previously only had class types (e.g. cleric) now have races (e.g. human) and vice versa. There are also little wording changes, some of which change the functionality of a card. Oracle text is always the final word on a card's characteristics and what it actually does.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Random Card of the Day - Jolrael, Empress of Beasts
    I would rather have Preyseizer Dragon or Predator Dragon for a similar effect most of the time, working on the assumption that any red deck running one of these with goblins to devour is also going to have haste sources for Preyseizer. The one mana discount doesn't make up for the narrower options for devouring for full effect.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Recursion for non-creature cards in Mono-Black?
    Petrified Field
    Artifact recursion chained with one of the artifact options, so Arcbound Reclaimer, Beacon of Unrest, Buried Ruin, Fortuitous Find, Junk Diver/Myr Retriever/Workshop Assistant, Trading Post, etc.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on How important is commander damage (to you/in general)?
    Quote from MinaHarcourt »
    Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not talking about not using commander damage. I'm rather talking about a commander with an intrinsic power of 0.
    That pretty much puts you on Akiri, Azami, Jace VP, Reveka, or Skeleton Ship. Two of those typically helm powerful combo control decks, one of them is unlikely to have 0 power at any point in the game, and the last two would still be gimmicky with greater than 0 power. You're either more or less unaffected by having 0 power or know what you're getting into.

    Commander damage kills are relatively uncommon in games that I play, but are almost always a threat. I see people one swing from death on a regular basis, so it definitely has an impact.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on The Commander Price Discussion Thread
    Quote from Majikal »
    I'm skeptical of this one. There are tons of these still available for $8.
    If you could get them for $2-3 a week ago it's still a significant jump. It looks like someone is buying them out (very sharp spike with no recent tournament results or spoiled cards that could motivate it, at least not that I'm aware of), so they should drop pretty rapidly over the next couple weeks.
    Posted in: Market Street Café
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from SpeedGrapher »
    I'm hoping it's reprinted in this masters set if not the price will continue to rise. We have a few more days before we know.
    We already know that it's not. Izzet Signet is 223/249 and Orzhov Signet is 224/249.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on The Commander Price Discussion Thread
    Quote from krichaiushii »
    Another odd jump: Carpet of Flowers.

    http://www.mtgstocks.com/cards/8928

    Commander, again?

    Cheers!
    Carpet sees moderate legacy play. I'm guessing that's the bigger driver.
    Posted in: Market Street Café
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card Discussion
    Quote from Life1ess »
    Zur, particularly with the old art, is a strange choice for a reprint IMO.
    There's a modern control deck running him that shows up from time to time. It's never really made an impact, but he's seen some play because of it.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Do you pull punches?
    I don't pull punches in game but my decks are heavily built down. I generally try and build in a way that I would enjoy playing against the deck, which includes skipping cards like Sol Ring and friends. People who pull punches in game generally annoy me, especially if they announce that they're pulling punches.

    Obviously none of this applies to choices made for strategic reasons. If there's an in game reason not to kill someone or remove something that needs to be taken into account.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Crazy Plays in EDH.
    I had a fun couple of turns in a 3 player game with Tana, the Bloodsower/Reyhan, Last of the Abzan last night. Played Tana, followed with Wolfir Silverheart the next turn, paired and hit player A for 6 and 6 saprolings. Following turn, activate Mosswort Bridge to put Fallen Ideal on Tana, sac the 6 saprolings for lethal on player A and 18 more saprolings. Following turn, sac 18 saprolings for lethal on player B. I'm omitting where a couple attempted removal spells met some protection, but it was a nice sequence of turns.

    The game after that I got pretty brutally ground out thanks to Breya, Etherium Shaper keeping me from ever getting things moving, but the first game was nice.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on The Modern Price Discussion Thread
    Quote from Stoogeslap »
    There is some interesting movement going. Any (most) explanation for the growth would be acceptable (except "low print run" and "it's time was due").

    These are the jumpers (pre-price jump/post-price jump):
    Basilisk Collar: $9.81/$23.44
    Noxious Revival: $1.96/$4.00
    Paradise Mantle: $1.74/$3.49

    Are there any decks using these cards, hence raising the popularity?
    Eldrazi tron, cheerios, and cheerios.
    Posted in: Market Street Café
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    posted a message on [[Primer]] Mono-R Control with Jaya Ballard!
    Quote from Mercury01 »
    I try to remain open to all options. Sometimes it's just straight Jaya damage. Sometimes it's double damage. Sometimes it's a win with Repercussion or Vicious Shadows, like Myrmadillo said. Sometimes it's a win with Stuffy Doll or Comet Storm. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, I get a win with Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. Once, it was a win with Molten Psyche.

    I guess since I run it like it's a control deck (the commander is a boardwipe, after all), I gotta stay flexible.
    More or less the same for me. Most often, it's some kind of direct damage. I've also had wins beating down with creatures (I run enough equipment to make that viable option) and a couple times via mill, when an opponent was outdrawing me and I could chain a few wheels together.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
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    posted a message on Random Card of the Day - Jolrael, Empress of Beasts
    Combat tricks are the most recent thing that I'm playing around with in the format, so I've picked up a bunch recently. This is not one of them. I don't think this places highly enough to even be considered in most decks, even the budget ones. I'd run the classic Giant Growth before this one.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Random Card of the Day - Jolrael, Empress of Beasts
    Quote from LouCypher »
    Also wouldn't Jaya Ballard especially love this guy? Pitch it to one of your effects, then later on wheel on demand? Sounds good to me.
    I think so. My list in particular always loves having an evasive equipment carrier too. The hard part is finding the cut, and I don't pull Jaya out as often as the decks I'm tinkering with most nights. I honestly haven't had a lot of time to play over the last few months either, which makes changes even slower than they usually are.

    Quote from FunkyDragon »
    Are you not counting things like Molten Psyche as a wheel effect because it shuffles rather than discards? I guess there is a difference, but I've always lumped them together (cards out, cards in).
    Cards like Psyche are never card advantage, which is the biggest strike against them. Always drawing to 7 is a big part of why wheels are so powerful.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Random Card of the Day - Jolrael, Empress of Beasts
    Quote from LouCypher »
    Runehorn HellkiteWhile Red is known as the colour of wheels, it only has 5 actual wheels; Wheel of Fortune, Wheel of Fate, Reforge the Soul, Dragon Mage and this.
    You're forgetting Magus of the Wheel. I'm not sure how many decks even want to go that deep on wheels outside of Nekusar.

    I like this card a lot despite the large mana investment. I'm still planning on trying it in Jaya at some point, but it's tough to crack Wheel of Fortune, Reforge the Soul, Memory Jar, and assorted other draw/"draw" effects for a permanent spot. I love that mono-red has so many options that I can skip several of them at this point.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on The Commander Price Discussion Thread
    Quote from Morphling »
    Memory JarFoil was recently identified as a good target..
    They were commenting on the increase after it happened. That was alerting people to the price change, not telling people to go out and buy it.
    Posted in: Market Street Café
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    posted a message on Random Card of the Day - Jolrael, Empress of Beasts
    The tap kills it. I'd be running it all over without that. As it is, I've never even considered it.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on 2cmc vs. 3cmc vs. 4cmc Ramp Spells
    Quote from Lithl »
    Use 2-drops to ramp you into the 4-drops Wink
    This is one of my favorite opening sequences. It's so satisfying to have 7 mana T4, especially without any fast mana. It really only works with any degree of reliability is heavy ramp decks, where you're going to have a use for the 4 cmc options later on.

    I typically favor 2 cmc ramp, with edits to the ramp package depending on what I want to be doing. The 2 cmc spells go a long ways towards fixing your colors and smoothing out opening hands. There are definitely exceptions. If you have a game plan that relies on dropping your 5 CMC general or other high impact plays at 5 cmc, Cultivate/Kodama's Reach gain a lot of value for reliably getting you there (early) off of three lands in your first 10-12 cards, a very attainable goal for even the stingiest land counts. They also play nicely with 1 cmc mana dorks, where the 2 cmc spells can leave you with an extra mana T2. If I'm trying to hit 7 mana, the 4 cmc options are huge for a couple reasons. First is similar to Cultivate for a 5 cmc impact play. Even without any other ramp, the 4 cmc spells are likely to get you enough mana to play that on curve, even with poor land draws. Second, anything relying on a 7 cmc play is probably running other ramp to get there and the odds of an early 4 cmc spell go way up, which is a huge tempo advantage. It's a little more awkward to aim for 6 cmc impact plays, so I probably just load up on dorks and cheap ramp again. I understand that it's a little odd to drop back down on ramp when aiming for 6-drops, but that has other deckbuilding implications beyond the ramp package and it's rare for me to build around a 6-drop without going bigger or using it as a long game plan.

    I'm not a particularly competitive player, but I do want my decks to run smoothly. Ramping too much is almost as damaging as not ramping enough thanks to the tempo hit you're going to take. Unless your endgame plan is going to go over all of your opponents, you're probably better off making more impactful plays sooner. Spending some time on figuring out your mana requirements over the first few turns of the game, then planning your ramp around that pays off in the long run. It's a little more difficult in EDH thanks to the higher variance, but you can generally guess a best, worst, and average case. There are enough ramp options available now that you can build a reliable ramp package with that information.

    Tl;DR: I like Cultivate/Kodama's Reach if I have high impact 5-drops, 4 cmc ramp if I have high impact 7-drops or a similar big mana plan, and 2 cmc ramp + dorks for everything else. Balance your ramp with what you want the deck to do.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on The Commander Price Discussion Thread
    Quote from Xoth »
    Looks like Memory Jar is finally moving, especially foils. I'm guessing it's because it's on the Reserved List and can be useful in Commander.

    Anyone know anything else?
    Haven't heard anything new. I'm a little surprised it took as long as it did on the foils, despite being banned in legacy. Reserved list + powerful + well known is a perfect storm for high prices. Maybe the FTV printing has been holding them down a little?
    Posted in: Market Street Café
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    posted a message on 5c Door to Nothingness [forced suicide]
    Quote from Springlake »
    The core of the "combo" is heavy U/G leaning so I'm thinking either a Temur or Sultai control shell to go with it, Sultai might be better thanks to better tutors in black over red.
    Why not just run what you need out of RB? You're going to be 5C anyways. If you're leaning heavy green, you should be able to fix well enough that an effective 4C deck isn't too painful. If a self-inflicted Door kill is your primary wincon, you're unlikely to get a whole lot of people complaining about the deck's power level.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Increasing combat damage without increasing power
    Thanks for the suggestions, all. I'll probably give it a try as is and see if I even want more ways to kill people before making any changes, but I appreciate the input. Graveblade Marauder and Inquisitor's Flail in particular are both respectable options.

    Quote from Lithl »
    Downdraft and Whiteout both provide repeatable means to make multiple creatures lose flying in one turn. (Too bad you're not in red for Gravity Sphere, or the myriad of cards that prevent non-fliers from blocking.)
    Green has one of those in Bower Passage, and junk has plenty of ways to find it if I really want it all the time. I suspect Kondo's evasion is going to do the trick most of the time and I'd rather just go straight to Hurricane effects rather than get cute with anti-flying tech.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Increasing combat damage without increasing power
    I'm putting together a Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa/Tymna the Weaver hatebear aggro list and I'm searching for additional ways to kill people. So far I'm planning on cards that halve life totals (Quietus Spike, Scytheclaw, Raving Dead, and possibly Ebonblade Reaper), double strike, and Wound Reflection. There are also options like Doran, the Siege Tower/Assault Formation, Guiltfeeder, and instant speed mass pump like Kamahl, Fist of Krosa/Jazal Goldmane/Leonin Sun Standard, which may be a little mana heavy. I'd like to avoid intentional combo kills.

    Any other good ideas out there?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Underrated and Underplayed Board Wipes
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    I got one

    Harsh mercy

    One mana less than the wrath

    Con is only good in tribal decks.
    It also always misses each opponent's best creature/token swarm, which is not a desirable feature in a wrath.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Underrated and Underplayed Board Wipes
    Quote from Jusstice »
    For me, all of the red wipes come to mind. Fiery Confluence, Starstorm, Fault Line, Mizzium Mortars. They all have their perks for me over the standard 4cmc destroy all effects, such as being instant speed, only killing certain creatures, not killing your own, etc. I think the reason that they’re not run more often is because they don’t kill Rampaging Baloths (or insert your own green fatty here). But then shuffle up, and all you see is Oracle of Mul Daya, Rafiq of the Many, and Thada Adel, Acquisitor for 8-10 turns, because same people seem to think that their Baloths are guaranteed to hit a wipe the turn after they are played.
    Agree with these. They're not guaranteed to kill everything you're going to see in a game, but they frequently end up overperforming.

    Along those lines, I've had a fair amount of success with Sudden Demise as a targeted wipe. If you're looking for almost universal creature kill and player damage, Rolling Earthquake is a lot more attainable thanks to its FtV printing.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Alternatively, just pull the Sol Ring (assuming unpowered)? Games lacking fast mana aren't significantly worse in my experience, and a cube can enforce a level playing field.

    If you've already got a stack of moxen in there, all bets are off.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Generals that are Completely Unfun to Play Against
    Quote from Life1ess »
    More on topic, I can't stand Norin the Wary. Everyone who builds this thinks it's so damn cute and it's really just a big waste of time.
    I'm with you here. It was a fun deck for a while but the borderline cult following has been grating for long enough that I'm just tired of it at this point.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Random Card of the Day - Jolrael, Empress of Beasts
    I run Armillary Sphere in Jaya, which is a far cry from both budget and multicolor. In that list hitting land drops is important, having cards in hand to discard is important, and red has decent artifact support so it's a solid role player. I picked up a Scarecrow to test when it came out but still haven't gotten around to it.

    I like it a lot in theory despite never having played it. It's an easily recurrable—if expensive—source of card advantage and mana fixing. It could fill a niche, even outside of budget builds.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from Donald »
    I got a travel case from Aaron Cain (has some YouTube videos). He's got some cool looking commander boxes. I did have a couple minor complaints, there was a ding in one if the corners and light clamp marks on the lid, but overall I'm happy with it.
    They're definitely nice looking. I'm likely holding off on anything until the tax return comes in at the very earliest, but I'm keeping him in mind.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    I'm pseudo-in the market for a deckbox that comfortably fits a double sleeved deck, but I think I'm a lot more likely to grab or make something nice and (probably) wooden. I double sleeved Jaya after a near miss with some iced coffee, so the deck doesn't fit in the old box anymore. I kind of want to move past fat pack box given the amount of time and money sunk into that deck.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on B&R Update: Emrakul, Copter, Reflector Mage banned in Standard, Gitaxian Probe, Gravetroll in Modern!
    Quote from Colt47 »
    You obviously weren't around for cawblade. The reason Sfm got banned isn't because of cawblade itself but because of valakut and the fact people wanted to play that deck. We are in a similar situation right now with combo Saheeli Vs vehicles. If people keep playing Saheeli combo despite it being bad against Mardu vehicles it is completely plausible it will be banned.
    I'm not sure you were around for caw blade if that's how you remember that going down. JtMS and SFM were two dominating cards (see 88% of day two decks at GP Singapore running multiple JtMS and 70% running multiple SFM, 26 and 28 copies in the top 8 respectively, or the GP Dallas top 8 with 32 copies of JtMS) in a dominating deck that drove tournament attendance, even things like the NPH prerelease, down. It was banned because it was a dominating deck that drove tournament attendance down, not because people wanted to play a different archetype. The only way Valakut decks played into it at all was by being unexpected. In the FFL, JtMS wasn't as much of a problem thanks to Vengevine decks. Those decks didn't really play a role in caw blade standard because they lost to the Valakut decks, which no one in the FFL found. Caw blade standard was a genuinely unhealthy format with a very clear cut best deck in one of the more powerful standard environments in recent memory.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on what was your first deck?
    Probably some pile with 18-20 lands and a gameplan of waiting until I drew one of my two Scaled Wurm. The first well thought out one was years later, a UB bounce list that used Recoil, Warped Devotion, and Sigil of Sleep enchanted Metathran Elite or Prodigal Sorcerer to control the game, with a couple Megrim to kill. I also have fond memories of a three land elf deck, but I don't remember any of the specifics other than sets of Llanowar Elves and Priest of Titania. In hindsight, I have no idea how that ever got rolling (very lenient mulligan rules?) but it was very successful at my middle school lunch tables.

    The first format deck I built was much later, a zoo deck in ALA/ZEN standard.
    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from XeroxedFool »
    Old threads being 'necroed' or posted on many years or months after theyve been un-replied to.
    It's more or less a constant thing. I haven't noticed it happening with any higher frequency recently, though I've admittedly been offline for longer than usual thanks to a conference.

    edit: I played Tana/Reyhan the other night against Zada (among others) and now I really want to smash the two decks together into what's basically a limited deck running a bunch of single shot pump spells. I'm almost positive the deck is going to be awful but I'm equally sure I'm going to build it. I look forward to wiping my field of 20 saproling tokens by copying Berserk onto all of them.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    I don't think Magic is in decline unless everyone saying so is using a different metric than I am. I think there's a pretty good chance the rapid growth from the past 5-7 years has declined, but that's not saying much. They reported 25% growth between 08 and 12. Speaking as someone with relatively little business knowledge, that kind of growth sounds hard to sustain over a long term period and they were pulling it off in a recession. Hasbro is publicly traded. You can find their quarterly reports. While they don't break down by property, they consistently say that Magic shows growth and has for years. The game is certainly not in decline by that standard, though it's understandable that the recent growth may have slowed. WotC's current business model is their current business model because it's selling products.

    One thing that's absolutely not true is that standard is WotC's primary breadwinner. The vast majority or their sales are to kitchen table players who may not even be aware of the existence of tournament formats. I don't remember the exact numbers and they're several years out of date anyways, but the last time I looked the estimate was something like 12-15 million magic players worldwide and about 400k DCI numbers (I have a post from a couple months ago somewhere that sources all of this, but I don't have it handy and don't really want to go searching). Even making pessimistic assumptions like the total player estimate being wildly overblown, say 2x, and each DCI number actually being a unique, current player, there are 15x as many casual players as tournament ones. Even beyond that, limited formats move more product than standard. Serious constructed players don't crack packs. Serious limited players never stop. The number of eternal/modern players is even smaller than either of those groups, though modern has overtaken standard in some places. It doesn't matter if eternal players don't buy packs because there aren't enough eternal players to sustain the game anyways and buying off the secondary market is still selling/did sell packs somewhere.

    We're also discussing this in a place that only the most interested and most invested people are going to be. Internet discussions of the games health are going to disproportionately weight tournament (and EDH) play and discount casual play. WotC wants to promote standard because it spreads the word about their new products and builds a dedicated base, but it's not their only or even primary source of revenue for Magic.

    I'm not a WotC apologist. I don't play standard, modern (often), or limited. I generally like the older trend with more powerful spells and less powerful creatures more than the current midrange battles. I just don't think there's any real evidence that Magic on the whole is in decline.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Worst EDH generals?
    Quote from ChazA4 »
    Didn't he die in the storyline? I mean, this isn't Marvel or DC here...lol
    They've had a few dead characters show up in supplemental products. See Feldon of the Third Path, Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa, and various others. Supplemental products don't have to follow the main storyline.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    There's currently a rumor mill thread where one person is saying MtG is in decline because WotC isn't reprinting enough cards and someone else is saying that MtG is in decline because WotC is reprinting too many cards. That kind of exchange is why I still read the rumor mill from time to time.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from jackad7 »
    Just because it is an uncommon doesn't mean there are a lot of them. I think it was remand in MM15 that was the uncommon that people were getting one maybe two per box. (might be a different uncommon from a different set, I just remember a decent value reprint uncommon that people were opening boxes and seeing between 0-2 per box) Just about anyone could tell this card would be good/popular so wizards might have done the same with this. Also most modern players want them because they are a great removal in black and any standard player looking to play black will want them so there is just a massive market for it.
    Quote from ashtonkutcher »
    Actually, that's exactly what it means!

    The set just hasn't been opened enough yet to meet demand. Wait a month.
    jackad7's not wrong, but it has nothing to do with WotC tweaking print runs of popular uncommons and everything to do with magic players consistently overestimating how frequently uncommons show up. Based on the number of uncommons in AER, you can expect to open an average of 1.8 (fudging a little because I'm lazy) copies of Fatal Push, or any other uncommon, in a box of AER. You can expect to open 0.9 copies of any given uncommon in MM15 - a box with no Remand was more likely than a box with 2. If you compare an uncommon and a rare (~0.8 copies/box) from AER, there are only a little more than twice as many of the uncommon as there are of the rare (roughly the same ratio as rare to mythic). Supply of an uncommon still outstrips that of a rare by a significant amount, but not by nearly as much as people seem to think based on forum posts.

    That said, there's still going to be a lot more product opened. The set hasn't even been out for a week yet. It's not surprising that there's still a limited supply of a high demand card.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from JWK »
    Honestly, killing someone via combat with a Deadeye Navigator, of all things, makes me really think about finally building the sorta-voltron Riku deck I've been thinking about for a couple years. Riku wading into battle, made unblockable and empowered by doubling up various boost spells, hitting for lethal general damage.... that would be as far from the typical Riku deck as one can get, I think. Forget spell-slinger Riku... this would be spell-punch Riku!

    Only problem is, I don't really want two decks with one general, and I rather like my current Riku deck, which I have crafted to have a nice balance between the critter-doubling and the spell-doubling shenanigans.
    There was some discussion of voltron Riku in one of the old Riku threads. bobthefunny may have even thrown a list together at one point.

    I've been wanting to play around with single shot pump spells in EDH for a while now. There have been a couple solid ones printed in the last couple years and Berserk's reprint makes it a lot more accessible. I was leaning towards someone partnered with Tana, the Bloodsower, either Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa to take advantage of instant speed or one of the black ones to get things like Hatred. I haven't actually followed through with it yet, but it's going to happen at some point. I've got a bunch of deck concepts that I just don't want to spend the time building right now.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Fast lands for Rith the Awakener
    Lots of words incoming.

    I would immediately ditch Meteor Crater, Rith's Grove, and Thran Quarry if you're concerned about powering out Rith quickly. Grove guarantees you'll be down a land drop and only lets you play Rith on curve if it's the last land you need to hit 6 mana. Crater and Quarry are both easy for opponents to turn off. I wouldn't run any of those three over basics the vast majority of the time (some exceptions like Quarry in Donald's Edric list, but they're few and far between). Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper depends heavily on the rest of your deck, but I'm never really a fan of it. It's too restrictive. You say you have 13 legends to cast. With 33 lands, that leaves 53 nonlands in your list that this can't possibly help with. Eiganjo Castle is also deck dependent, but can at least take a basic land slot. I've never really found it useful, but the opportunity cost is very low. You might try out Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers instead. Slightly less defensive, but it turns Rith into a three turn clock and early green is important if you're running mana elves.

    I'm guessing you already have City of Traitors if you're considering that for a spot. I wouldn't use it here. Between general tax and increased game lengths, permanent mana sources are generally better to have in EDH. If you do in fact have one, aren't using it, and aren't attached to it, you could likely turn that into a very solid manabase all on its own.

    To give better manabase advice, it would be helpful to see your ramp package. The rest of the deck is also important, particularly curve and heavy/early colored costs, but you already have a stated goal of getting Rith out ASAP. Without any of that information, building off of what you already have, and trying to keep things very budget, I would start with something like this:
    Of the lands you didn't list, everything there can be picked up for $1 or less with the exceptions of Clifftop Retreat, which you were already planning on getting, and Cinder Glade, which is about as cheap as it's ever going to be right now and has a couple useful upsides. That leaves you with 6 lands guaranteed to CIPT, all of which either provide any of your colors or have some other upside, plus 5 lands with an easy condition to bring in untapped. For less budget fixing, fetches and shocks are the obvious upgrade but are by no means necessary. You can safely prioritize green if you go that route, which also happen to be the cheaper ones right now. You can also look to cards like City of Brass, Mana Confluence, and Reflecting Pool. For utility lands, I skipped Keldon Necropolis but it can find a home - I just don't like the 6 mana sac outlet, even as reach. Gavony Township is an excellent utility land for Rith, as it takes him into 3 turn kill territory while buffing up your token swarm. The other lands in that cycle, Kessig Wolf Run and Slayers' Stronghold, also speed up Rith's clock by a lot. Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion as well.

    For more wrath resilient ramp, take advantage of green's land ramp. Cultivate and Kodama's Reach are both very helpful for a 6 CMC general and play nicely with mana dorks. Farseek and Nature's Lore can both grab Canopy Vista and Cinder Glade, as well as green shocks if you ever go that route. Wood Elves and Farhaven Elf both play nicely with any elf tribal themes you may be running, such as Priest of Titania, Elvish Archdruid, Wirewood Channeler, or Elvish Guidance. You should also not underestimate old standby Rampant Growth. I'm a big fan of 2 CMC ramp into 4 CMC ramp 2 (Explosive Vegetation, Skyshroud Claim, or Ranger's Path) as an opener, which can happen with some consistency thanks to the number of options you have. That has you untapping on T4 with a minimum 6 mana without a fast mana start, which is solid. You can also do something similar if more card intensive by going mana dork into 3 CMC ramp into 4 CMC ramp 2. If you do go for an extremely ramp heavy route, make sure you have mana sinks or some other way to turn late game ramp into business. An explosive early game comes with a very real deckbuilding cost if you want to do it at all consistently.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on Playing with Proxies - How do you feel about it?
    Quote from Colt47 »
    I feel you on the costs. The problem is that the haves don't want their cards devalued and the guys selling genuine cards as singles and trying to make a living don't want their merchandise devalued either. However, if wizards doesn't reprint them, I don't see why it's a bad thing to buy proxies assuming the quality is up to par. It sounds like a great way to flesh out a cube or getting cards like Scalding Tarn, that are just in way too much demand and printed ages ago.
    I disagree with a lot of this post. I agree that singles sellers don't want cards devalued if they're sitting on a large stock, which I suspect is a relatively small number of sellers. Otherwise, they have a lot to gain from cheaper cards moving faster. Margins on buying and selling singles are small. Selling a stack of Seas at $40-50 a pop is likely making them more money than selling one or two at $250-300. WotC has demonstrated that they can manage reprints well enough to drop card values without cratering them, so I'm sure they can reprint responsibly. For players, it's been my experience that legacy players are more interested in having opponents than watching a portfolio of expensive cards slowly appreciate. We mostly bought our cards to play with. Future value is a side perk at best. Along those lines, I don't think I've ever met a legacy player (in person, I've seen a couple online) who was opposed to proxies outside of sanctioned events.

    I'm still generally opposed to buying proxies, particularly if they're a recreation of the actual card and not alternate art. It seems like you're on much shakier legal ground once someone is making money on it. It's not difficult to get access to a color printer and make decent ones to test with or stick in a cube.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
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