I've been messing around with a black splash on and off for a couple years now--back when splashing was sacrilegious. I think SwordsToTimeshares is on the right track with his current version. My struggle is trying to decide if we should go up to 2 bitterblossom (1 in the main and 1 in the sb). In those attrition matchups, blossom pulls me way ahead. What's everyone's sbs looking like with a black splash?
What about running a singleton melira, sylvok outcastin the sb for Yisan builds? While infect isn't a match that I particularly struggle with, it's hard to say no to such a strong hoser. Bonus, it gets protected by Karakas. Infect's numbers have been rising and I wouldn't say the match is a walk in the park. The question we have to ask ourselves is do we have time to yisan tutor into a 2 drop before they kill us. I love a good toolbox.
Hey guys, just a short tourney report from Indy where I finished 21st. Memory is pretty fuzzy and there's no way the rounds are all in the correct order:
Round 1 vs Hexmage Depths: Lose 1-2
I don't remember too much except that the games 1 & 2 were really close. At one point during g1 after answering 2 marit larges, I have mindcensor out and he manages to find the 3rd thespian stage out of the top 4 cards in his library and promptly wins it. Talk about bad luck. G3, he blows me out going t1 mana confluence, t2 crop rotation for urborg, play depths, tap out for hexmage. I make my second land drop looking at a hand with flickerwisp and other goodies. I boarded as if he was on life from the loam, but his deck was more of a brew playing sylvan scrying, expedition maps, etc. He was all in on the depths plan and surprisingly wasn't running loam.
Round 2 vs stoneblade (can't remember which variant): win
Round 3 vs Bug Delver: win
Round 4 vs goblins: win
Round 5 vs Sneak & Show: win
Round 6 vs Miracles: win
Round 7 vs Maverick: win
Round 8 vs sneak and show: win
Round 9 vs Dnt: Lose 0-2
G1, I get a mom or 2 out, but he finds the jitte, and manages to connect. G2, He blows me out with jitte, despite several active moms.
At this point, I'm x-2 which is solid for Day 2.
Round 10 vs Storm: Lose 0-2
G1, he's on the play and manages to win through 2 revokers as my only sources of disruption. G2, I make a mistake here that costs me the game. I manage to resolve thalia with karakas backup and Mom protection with RIP in hand. He doesn't do much of anything except make land drops while I'm stuck on 2 lands. I finally find a 3rd land and choose to resolve a SOTL instead of hardcasting the RIP. He's still at relatively high enough life to ad naus and I wanted to apply a bit more pressure before tapping out for the RIP. He untaps, manages to ritual into 4 cabal rituals, PIF, repeat, and kill me. Had I casted the RIP--which was probably the more correct play, he wouldn't have been able to recover. He reveals to me after the game that he boarded out ad naus anyway.
Round 11 vs Miracles: Win
I do remember resolving mindcensor g3, which blew him out by negating 3 of his fetches.
Round 12 vs goblins: win
Round 13 vs Bug Control: win
Round 14 vs omnitell: win
G1, he takes me down with little resistance. G2, I win off thalia + canonist + rishadan ports and flickerwisp off a show n tell. G3 was the greatest thing ever. I mull to 6 and decide to keep vial, waste, port, thalia, 2 x flcikerwisp. He forces my t1 vial, and I proceed to draw no white sources for the next 6-8 turns. In the meantime, he casts somewhere around 2 dig through times, 2 brainstorms, ponder, and a preordain or 2. I'm slowing him down with ports, although he consistently makes land drops. I finally find a plains and attempt to cast thalia which meets a force. I topdeck another plains and hardcast a flickerwisp. He continues to cantrip. I add a serra avenger to the field while making another non white source land drop. He's at 13, when he finally show and tells. I put the wisp in play, he puts in omniscience wisp blanks the enchantment for a turn, he passes. I swing in for 9 dropping him down to 4. His turn, he casts the emrakul, takes an extra turn, swings I sac off everything except my creatures, and swing in for the win. Throughout the course of the game, he played 4 dig through times, and half his cantrips, while I didn't play a spell for 6-ish turns. Luck doesn't even begin to describe it.
Round 15 vs Maverick: Lose 0-2
So if I win this round, I'm in for the top 8. G1, he blows me out with a sword of light and shadow with reccuring pridemage. He also drew all 4 stps with sylvan library out. G2, I keep a flyer heavy hand, and start going to town on his life. I've got 2 avengers and a wisp out, He decays one avenger and starts getting 2 deathrite shaman and kotr online. At the point, I'm not convinced I can outrace him with DRS life gain and choose to cast my second flickerwisp. Naturally, the 1 card left in his hand is Zealous Persecution which wipes my field. I can't recover. There was a bit of iffyness in this last round. Apparently, we had both failed to notice that he activated his KOTR when I had Pithing Needle out naming it. I'm fairly confident it did not alter the result though. Unfortunately, He's x-3-1 and ends up at 9th place.
Elves was everywhere. I lucked out and didn't meet it. Storm and show and tell was very well represented at the top tables. Mindcensor was really good. Mangara was kinda meh. It always prompted an answer from my opponent though. Mirran Crusader as a 2 of did serious work vs the fair decks. My sb was geared more towards a bug heavy meta. Looking back, I would have changed the 3rd RIP back for a grafdigger's cage (my previous configuration).
With Tc banned, I think it's safe to assume goyfs and mystics will be coming back. Bearing that in mind, I don't like Brimaz. I'll be going back to my build that did well right before Khans was released: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8140&d=246886&f=LE
I'll be dropping 1 SOTL and 1 E tutor for 2 x containment priest in the sb.
Could you guys explain to me why Avenger is better than Mirran Crusader?
If your goal is to fight delvers, wouldn't Mirran Crusader do just as good of a job? If they block your avenger with their delver, both creatures die. If they block your Crusader, the double strike means your Crusader is still there. If there are no blocks, A Crusader beats down faster than a Delver. Also, if I'm fighting delver I'll be getting Sword of Fire and Ice and putting it on my crusader. Now, every time I attack I get to kill their two delvers or their delver and young pyromancer. Umezawa's Jitte is best on a double striker as well because you get priority before the damage step with two counters on Jitte. I still run four fliers that I can use to block.
True Name is probably the scariest thing we could face. but not playing Serras opens me up to play Mangara of Corondor. While it still can't deal with TNN, it can remove the Jitte on him or continue to remove creatures. If I can, I try to keep vial open at 3 during the opponents turn. I can remove a permanent each turn unless I need to cast Flickerwisp or Aven Mindcensor during my opponents turn. If I can still get my Swords in play. I can swing for up to 12 dmg a turn while facing a true name.
I'm curious what you think.
Avenger is worlds better vs delver simply because delver is a one drop that opponents slam down on t1. You can't outrace a t1 delver with a t3 or t4 crusader. Delver is so aggressive that we are often forced to trade with an avenger just so we don't die. Sure, crusader with equipment can do it, but that's a little too hopeful.
So I meant to post here on Thursday after we had a Legacy event, but it was a long day and I needed some sleep. Now I do not really recall much of the details, but I have my list that I took to 1st place with a prize split with a team member
The deck was actually pretty sweet. With only the 2 Flickerwisp at 3 mana, it was fine running into wastelands or using mine. I played with the idea of 4, but really did not want my curve to be jammed with 3 drops. I feel like the best thing this deck can do right now is hate on mana and Vindicate was an all star at helping me lock opponent's out of playing a bunch of spells that they needed to.
Dark Confidant was really nice to have actually. Getting to continue drawing threats was pretty necessary and it gave me a card to top deck into a steady stream of gas if I somehow over extended more than I should have.
Chains of Mephistopheles was a card I had in the SB over the Containment Priest but the card was left at home. I felt like the card would have been one of the best cards of the night to be honest. I like this card WAY more than Spirit of the Labyrinth because it is pretty much a silver bullet effect and the effect is so incredibly valuable in the matches where you want it, that I value the ability more than the 3/1 body that Spirit gives. I would not run the list without both in the 75 though, but having access to Chains as well is just nuts. Dark Confidant lets you also get around your own Spirit or Chains effects to out CA an opponent and if you can put mana restraints on it you don't really lose.
I liked the idea of some of these black cards splashing their way into Death and Taxes rather than just picking up a Dead Guy Ale list, and I think it worked well. Vindicate was an MVP alongside Thalia as I could not only use Wasteland on nonbasic lands, but Vindicate on their basics to really bring the hammer down.
Cavern of Souls was sweet. I was pretty skeptical about this card, but being able to sneak in Thalia, Guardian of Thraben off it was incredible and against URx Cruise decks, I would drop a Karakas for a second Cavern and it really paid off.
I also am still a big fan of the E Tutor package from the board. I was able to search up Oblivion Ring against a Show and Tell opponent before he was able to cast his namesake card and there was not much he could really do with Thalia in play and a Ring in hand. Being able to tutor up Chains of Mephistopheles is a big one though. I was also able to use tutor to search up Rest in Peace with a Cabal Therapy threatening me on the draw, where if I ran 2 RIPS I would have been stuck without my hate card. I would like to get a second Chains into the list so I am running a 2/2 split of Chains and Spirit, and probably get a 4th Dark Confidant into the deck and perhaps a 3rd Vindicate.
I've tested a black splash back in the day when TNN was all over the place. It's an idea that dnt players dismiss too aggressively mainly on the notion that "this deck isn't deadguy ale" or "we are not a CA deck". Both statements are of course ridiculous, and stem from some false idea that splashing a color automatically trades off with the disruption element that makes dnt what it is. Now that several players have been messing around with minor splashes hopefully we can have these sort of conversations without immediate scorn.
Now to respond to your list, Bob left unanswered a few turns is simply a game win. When I was messing around with black, I was always happy to see him. I think your maindeck is fine, but I would probably drop the vindicate for another wisp. You could also probably drop a dual and add another plains with that change. I know vindicate performed well for you, but I would rather have a utility creature or an answer to TNN in the form of council's judgement before I would play vindicate for cutesy supplement to mana denial. Zealous persecution is the most appealing tool black has to offer so let us know how it works for you.
I would definitely splash green before black because I think Teeg has more relevance vs the top tier decks. That said, I'm still unsure on whether a splash variant or a mono w shell is superior. Testing will tell.
I think spirit is a house right now. I've been playing 3 copies and haven't looked back. Despite all of the positive feedback regarding Brimaz, I have not been impressed. Maybe I'm expecting too much from it, but the token generating ability has been a wash. I just can't get down with playing another vanilla-esque creature paired with 3 Serra avenger. Not to mention it's just terrible when facing enemy equipment.
In the brimaz/ resto angel slot, I've been rocking the same 2 Mirran Crusaders for a while now. Bug is certainly not dead, and they have been doing work for me.
@Singletons: I was rocking 2 mindcensors for the longest time, but I wanted something a little stronger vs miracles hence the switch to mangara. I also agree with swordstotimeshares on his singleton philosophy. Unfortunately I didn't play a mangara all day, but mindcensor did come in against kudoltha forgemaster vs mud and stifled a land or 2 during the day.
@Sotl: I brought them in a few times. Sotl is a card that you can't reliably gauge because you can't tell if it's doing its job. I like bringing it in vs jace decks, but finding room is rough.
Thanks for the kind words. I got to give props to Andrew--he was just seriously starting to get into legacy and for someone who is mostly inexperienced, he played extraordinarily well. Funny sidenote, I beat him round 7, and after the match I gave him a few tips in sideboarding vs the mirror. Naturally, we met again in the top 4! Anyway, I was 1 of 2 who went into the top 8 undefeated during the swiss.
R1: Merefolk 2-1
G1: I get bskull and sofi online and it's too much for him to handle
SB: -3 thalia, -1 mindcensor, +2 council's judgment, +2 cataclysm, I think
G2: I play catch up the entire game doing my best to answer his threats. I almost stabilize with a wisp equipped jitte. He then plays phantasmal image which copies my wisp flicking away my blocker and swings for lethal.
G3: I revoke his vial and keep him off double blue. I keep making land drops and deploying threats while disrupting mana and take the game.
R2: Sneak Attack 2-0
G1: Revoker on sneak attack with Karakas up and mana denial wins it.
SB: -2 crusader, -4 sfm, -1 bskull, -1 jitte, +2 sotl, +2 canonist, +2 council's judgement, + 1 pithing needle, +1 e tutor
G2: He gets blood moon out stopping my karakas. I have needle on sneak attack and vial at 3 with wisp in hand. He shows and tells Emrakul, eot I vial in wisp flicking moon and bouncing back emrakul. I win shortly sfter.
R3: Shardless BUG 2-0
G1: I waste his sea and he can't find another land. A freebie!
SB: Having just seen underground sea and thoughtseize, I'm not sure what he's on. I bring in 2 council's judgement, and 2 rest in peace thinking he's probably on deathrite shaman (BUG deathblade) or worst case he's got snapcaster mage, maybe lingering souls (some type of stoneblade). I cut a few x/1 dudes
G2: I find out he's on shardless bug. He draws a bunch of cards but I get bskull and sofi and rip if memory serves.
R4: MUD 2-1
G1: He plays metalworker, I revoke it and start disrupting his lands and win.
SB: -4 mom, -2 crusader, +2 council's judgement, +1 pithing needle, +1 enlightened tutor, +2 cataclysm
G2: I unwisely keep a hand without an answer to metalworker, and get blown away by large robots.
G3: This was a grindfest, but I eventually get there with bskull and flyers.
R5: Rug Delver 2-1
G1: He never finds green mana, which causes me think that he's on UR delver. I take it.
SB: -2 revoker, -2 crusader (I think he's on UR), +2 RIP, +2 Council's Judgement
G2: He takes me down with young pyromancer and goyf while removing my guys.
SB: -2 revoker, +2 SOTL (Now that I know he's rug)
G3: I resolve a RIP and he has trouble finding any threats. I get there without much trouble.
R6: Deathblade 2-1
G1: This game was crazy. Towards the end he had TNN jitte and bskull equipped, while I had SFM jitte, bskull, and sofi equipped. My clock was faster and I manage to take it.
SB: -1 thalia, -1 jitte, -1 revoker, +2 council's judgement, +1 pithing needle
G2: He blows me out with TNN, jitte, Jace, Council's judgement, and Zealous Persecution.
G3: I win off some flyers and SOFI I think
R7: DNT 2-0
G1: I can't remember, but I take it home.
SB: -4 thalia, +2 council's judgement, +1 pithing needle, +1 enlightened tutor
G2: He fetches manriki gusari with mystic, but I manage to get jitte online before he suits it up.
R8: ID
R9: ID
Top 8
Quarterfinals: Deathblade 2-0 (Same as R6)
G1: I get there.
SB: See R6
G2: I'm forced to overextend into a potential zealous persecution, luckily after multiple brainstorms he still can't find it and I pull out the win.
Semifinals: DNT 2-0 (Same as R7)
G1: I get an unanswered mom out and take it.
SB: See R7
G2: Mull to 5, We both made some misplays. Luckily, he was forced to path his own mom to find a land. I peeled serious gas off the top and finished it off with a jitte equipped crusader.
Finals: Elves 0-2
G1: Opening 7 of thalia x 2, lands x 3, and 2 other irrelevants--Auto Mull. Opening 6 of 1 land, 2 stp, mom, SFM, maybe revoker, and an irrelevant. I figure this was probably better than a mull to 5 and if I can draw a land I could seriously take this one home. I don't find a land and he combos off t4.
SB: -1 mangara, -4 thalia, -3 flickerwisp, -1 batterskull, +2 ethersworn canonist, +2 SOTL, +1 E tutor, +2 Council's judgement, +1 pithing needle, +1 Graffdigger's Cage
G2: I keep an opening 7 of stp, revoker, needle, vial, and 3 lands. This was a long debated keep, but honestly his hand was perfect to beat almost any starting 7. I find a sofi which gives me a glimmer of hope, but his answers of thoughtseize and abrupt decay proved way too formidable. I brick on any gas, and he gets the NO for Hoof and promptly wins it.
I think councils judgement is fine vs rug. They are only running 12 creatures, it's a hedge against tnn, and it hits mongoose. You know they are boarding out some amount of counters to bring in rough tumbles, sulfur elementals, tnn, and artifact hate post board anyway. Most Dnt lists should have room cutting 4 revokers so what's the hesitation?
@redtwister: Facing Bant Stoneblade, I would bring in council's judgement and pithing needle for sure. The rest depends on what strategies they have. If they are packing Jaces, I'd be tempted to bring in SOTL possibly cutting a flier/crusader . I'd probably board out 1 Thalia, 1 jitte playing against a bant stoneblade list with TNN. Some newer lists are packing thopter/sword and shardless agent with no TNN, and others are traditional builds with KOTR and GSZ. All of these builds are quite susceptible to revoker and they don't have x/1 hate so I wouldn't touch him. The most common way to lose is vs TNN, so as default fetch your SOFI first.
Facing Grixis Delver, I would probably cut 1 Mangara, 2 revoker, 1 thalia for council's judgement, sotl, and RIP. Postboard they usually bring in grim lavamancer and most builds have deathrite shaman. Rip also helps against random goyf/tombstalker appearances (these builds are pretty varied so it depends on what you see g1).
@Medea: I also don't bother with revokers vs rug. I completely agree with trimming down parts of the SFM package. Jitte is one that I find I board out often.
@Everyone: So could you share exactly how you sb vs. bug delver and shardless bug(I would also love to see delver variants, miracles, and stoneblade variants too if you're in the typing mood)? Let's not dance around this topic anymore. I realize it's a good matchup, but Bug is 15% of the field. I would love to see card for card what you guys are doing. I'll call out some of the big wigs: swordstotimeshares, from cairo, barbed blightning, Finn. Let's do this right guys.
I'd like to gather some opinions on sideboarding and hopefully come to a consensus on what to bring in/out vs the tier decks. I think this is one area where a lot of us have very specific takes on what is useful or ineffective and could benefit the D&T community as a whole. I'll post my list as it's pretty stock and go on with how I typically sb from there.
Vs. Bug Delver: Ok, so this deck has all kinds of little variations that can alter your sb strategy. From what I gather, lists generally run Liliana or TNN and then hymn or stifle. The problem is that after g1, you may not know which build they're on. Typically I go -1 mindcensor, -1 mangara, -1 thalia, -2 revoker, +2 rip, +2 wilt-leaf, +1 council's judgement. Now here's where I'm sure there's some variation. If you don't see any Lilianas, then their only activated ability is deathrite shaman(most likely). In that case, I'm fine to drop the remaining 2 revokers and add the 2nd judgement and 1 spirit of the labyrinth. If you did see lilianas (meaning no TNN hopefully), then i'd probably keep in 2 revokers. My issue lies with SOTL. Do you guys typically bring in SOTL when you're opponent is just on brainstorm/ponder? Would you bring it is vs. bug delver at all?
Vs. Shardless Bug: This one is tricky. We have too many cards that look good. One thing to note about shardless is that they very rarely run TNN. I go: -1 thalia, -1 mindcensor, -1 mangara, -1 revoker, -3 flickerwisp, +2 rip, +2 wilt leaf, +2 SOTL, +1 pithing needle. They'll be boarding out fows and most likely hymns to bring in golgari charms, toxic deluges, and disfigures. I do my best to keep their x/1 hate in check. Thoughts?
Vs. Rug Delver: Out: 4 revoker. In: 2 council's judgement, 2 rip. I can argue points in siding out mindcensor and mangara for 2 wilt leafs, but I typically don't.
I'd like to see how you guys sb against the above matchups and maybe we can get some real value in deciding what's effective and what's not in a scg type meta.
@vote4jonny: Actually brimaz is a stalemate vs batterskull. A smart opponent will identify that you have karakas in play and just chump the token, netting 1 life. Or they may choose to take 1 and force you to hard cast or vial in your brimaz each turn. It makes for some awkward plays.
On lands: My rule of thumb is >= 6 legends, run 4 karakas. My utility lands are 2x horizon canopy. With wisp, avenger,and brimaz being ww and different creature types, I want to make sure I can cast them on non vial openers.
My sb:
+3 RIP, +2 wilt-leaf liege
-2 revoker, -1 thalia, -2 wisp
I'm a bit sad to go down to 2 wisps, but I think I want at least 2 needle effects in the main.
Round 1 vs Hexmage Depths: Lose 1-2
I don't remember too much except that the games 1 & 2 were really close. At one point during g1 after answering 2 marit larges, I have mindcensor out and he manages to find the 3rd thespian stage out of the top 4 cards in his library and promptly wins it. Talk about bad luck. G3, he blows me out going t1 mana confluence, t2 crop rotation for urborg, play depths, tap out for hexmage. I make my second land drop looking at a hand with flickerwisp and other goodies. I boarded as if he was on life from the loam, but his deck was more of a brew playing sylvan scrying, expedition maps, etc. He was all in on the depths plan and surprisingly wasn't running loam.
Round 2 vs stoneblade (can't remember which variant): win
Round 3 vs Bug Delver: win
Round 4 vs goblins: win
Round 5 vs Sneak & Show: win
Round 6 vs Miracles: win
Round 7 vs Maverick: win
Round 8 vs sneak and show: win
Round 9 vs Dnt: Lose 0-2
G1, I get a mom or 2 out, but he finds the jitte, and manages to connect. G2, He blows me out with jitte, despite several active moms.
At this point, I'm x-2 which is solid for Day 2.
Round 10 vs Storm: Lose 0-2
G1, he's on the play and manages to win through 2 revokers as my only sources of disruption. G2, I make a mistake here that costs me the game. I manage to resolve thalia with karakas backup and Mom protection with RIP in hand. He doesn't do much of anything except make land drops while I'm stuck on 2 lands. I finally find a 3rd land and choose to resolve a SOTL instead of hardcasting the RIP. He's still at relatively high enough life to ad naus and I wanted to apply a bit more pressure before tapping out for the RIP. He untaps, manages to ritual into 4 cabal rituals, PIF, repeat, and kill me. Had I casted the RIP--which was probably the more correct play, he wouldn't have been able to recover. He reveals to me after the game that he boarded out ad naus anyway.
Round 11 vs Miracles: Win
I do remember resolving mindcensor g3, which blew him out by negating 3 of his fetches.
Round 12 vs goblins: win
Round 13 vs Bug Control: win
Round 14 vs omnitell: win
G1, he takes me down with little resistance. G2, I win off thalia + canonist + rishadan ports and flickerwisp off a show n tell. G3 was the greatest thing ever. I mull to 6 and decide to keep vial, waste, port, thalia, 2 x flcikerwisp. He forces my t1 vial, and I proceed to draw no white sources for the next 6-8 turns. In the meantime, he casts somewhere around 2 dig through times, 2 brainstorms, ponder, and a preordain or 2. I'm slowing him down with ports, although he consistently makes land drops. I finally find a plains and attempt to cast thalia which meets a force. I topdeck another plains and hardcast a flickerwisp. He continues to cantrip. I add a serra avenger to the field while making another non white source land drop. He's at 13, when he finally show and tells. I put the wisp in play, he puts in omniscience wisp blanks the enchantment for a turn, he passes. I swing in for 9 dropping him down to 4. His turn, he casts the emrakul, takes an extra turn, swings I sac off everything except my creatures, and swing in for the win. Throughout the course of the game, he played 4 dig through times, and half his cantrips, while I didn't play a spell for 6-ish turns. Luck doesn't even begin to describe it.
Round 15 vs Maverick: Lose 0-2
So if I win this round, I'm in for the top 8. G1, he blows me out with a sword of light and shadow with reccuring pridemage. He also drew all 4 stps with sylvan library out. G2, I keep a flyer heavy hand, and start going to town on his life. I've got 2 avengers and a wisp out, He decays one avenger and starts getting 2 deathrite shaman and kotr online. At the point, I'm not convinced I can outrace him with DRS life gain and choose to cast my second flickerwisp. Naturally, the 1 card left in his hand is Zealous Persecution which wipes my field. I can't recover. There was a bit of iffyness in this last round. Apparently, we had both failed to notice that he activated his KOTR when I had Pithing Needle out naming it. I'm fairly confident it did not alter the result though. Unfortunately, He's x-3-1 and ends up at 9th place.
Some general notes:
My list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=79348
Elves was everywhere. I lucked out and didn't meet it. Storm and show and tell was very well represented at the top tables. Mindcensor was really good. Mangara was kinda meh. It always prompted an answer from my opponent though. Mirran Crusader as a 2 of did serious work vs the fair decks. My sb was geared more towards a bug heavy meta. Looking back, I would have changed the 3rd RIP back for a grafdigger's cage (my previous configuration).
I'll be dropping 1 SOTL and 1 E tutor for 2 x containment priest in the sb.
Avenger is worlds better vs delver simply because delver is a one drop that opponents slam down on t1. You can't outrace a t1 delver with a t3 or t4 crusader. Delver is so aggressive that we are often forced to trade with an avenger just so we don't die. Sure, crusader with equipment can do it, but that's a little too hopeful.
I've tested a black splash back in the day when TNN was all over the place. It's an idea that dnt players dismiss too aggressively mainly on the notion that "this deck isn't deadguy ale" or "we are not a CA deck". Both statements are of course ridiculous, and stem from some false idea that splashing a color automatically trades off with the disruption element that makes dnt what it is. Now that several players have been messing around with minor splashes hopefully we can have these sort of conversations without immediate scorn.
Now to respond to your list, Bob left unanswered a few turns is simply a game win. When I was messing around with black, I was always happy to see him. I think your maindeck is fine, but I would probably drop the vindicate for another wisp. You could also probably drop a dual and add another plains with that change. I know vindicate performed well for you, but I would rather have a utility creature or an answer to TNN in the form of council's judgement before I would play vindicate for cutesy supplement to mana denial. Zealous persecution is the most appealing tool black has to offer so let us know how it works for you.
I would definitely splash green before black because I think Teeg has more relevance vs the top tier decks. That said, I'm still unsure on whether a splash variant or a mono w shell is superior. Testing will tell.
In the brimaz/ resto angel slot, I've been rocking the same 2 Mirran Crusaders for a while now. Bug is certainly not dead, and they have been doing work for me.
@Sotl: I brought them in a few times. Sotl is a card that you can't reliably gauge because you can't tell if it's doing its job. I like bringing it in vs jace decks, but finding room is rough.
Thanks for the kind words. I got to give props to Andrew--he was just seriously starting to get into legacy and for someone who is mostly inexperienced, he played extraordinarily well. Funny sidenote, I beat him round 7, and after the match I gave him a few tips in sideboarding vs the mirror. Naturally, we met again in the top 4! Anyway, I was 1 of 2 who went into the top 8 undefeated during the swiss.
My list for reference: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=72571
My matchups in order to the best of my memory:
R1: Merefolk 2-1
G1: I get bskull and sofi online and it's too much for him to handle
SB: -3 thalia, -1 mindcensor, +2 council's judgment, +2 cataclysm, I think
G2: I play catch up the entire game doing my best to answer his threats. I almost stabilize with a wisp equipped jitte. He then plays phantasmal image which copies my wisp flicking away my blocker and swings for lethal.
G3: I revoke his vial and keep him off double blue. I keep making land drops and deploying threats while disrupting mana and take the game.
R2: Sneak Attack 2-0
G1: Revoker on sneak attack with Karakas up and mana denial wins it.
SB: -2 crusader, -4 sfm, -1 bskull, -1 jitte, +2 sotl, +2 canonist, +2 council's judgement, + 1 pithing needle, +1 e tutor
G2: He gets blood moon out stopping my karakas. I have needle on sneak attack and vial at 3 with wisp in hand. He shows and tells Emrakul, eot I vial in wisp flicking moon and bouncing back emrakul. I win shortly sfter.
R3: Shardless BUG 2-0
G1: I waste his sea and he can't find another land. A freebie!
SB: Having just seen underground sea and thoughtseize, I'm not sure what he's on. I bring in 2 council's judgement, and 2 rest in peace thinking he's probably on deathrite shaman (BUG deathblade) or worst case he's got snapcaster mage, maybe lingering souls (some type of stoneblade). I cut a few x/1 dudes
G2: I find out he's on shardless bug. He draws a bunch of cards but I get bskull and sofi and rip if memory serves.
R4: MUD 2-1
G1: He plays metalworker, I revoke it and start disrupting his lands and win.
SB: -4 mom, -2 crusader, +2 council's judgement, +1 pithing needle, +1 enlightened tutor, +2 cataclysm
G2: I unwisely keep a hand without an answer to metalworker, and get blown away by large robots.
G3: This was a grindfest, but I eventually get there with bskull and flyers.
R5: Rug Delver 2-1
G1: He never finds green mana, which causes me think that he's on UR delver. I take it.
SB: -2 revoker, -2 crusader (I think he's on UR), +2 RIP, +2 Council's Judgement
G2: He takes me down with young pyromancer and goyf while removing my guys.
SB: -2 revoker, +2 SOTL (Now that I know he's rug)
G3: I resolve a RIP and he has trouble finding any threats. I get there without much trouble.
R6: Deathblade 2-1
G1: This game was crazy. Towards the end he had TNN jitte and bskull equipped, while I had SFM jitte, bskull, and sofi equipped. My clock was faster and I manage to take it.
SB: -1 thalia, -1 jitte, -1 revoker, +2 council's judgement, +1 pithing needle
G2: He blows me out with TNN, jitte, Jace, Council's judgement, and Zealous Persecution.
G3: I win off some flyers and SOFI I think
R7: DNT 2-0
G1: I can't remember, but I take it home.
SB: -4 thalia, +2 council's judgement, +1 pithing needle, +1 enlightened tutor
G2: He fetches manriki gusari with mystic, but I manage to get jitte online before he suits it up.
R8: ID
R9: ID
Top 8
Quarterfinals: Deathblade 2-0 (Same as R6)
G1: I get there.
SB: See R6
G2: I'm forced to overextend into a potential zealous persecution, luckily after multiple brainstorms he still can't find it and I pull out the win.
Semifinals: DNT 2-0 (Same as R7)
G1: I get an unanswered mom out and take it.
SB: See R7
G2: Mull to 5, We both made some misplays. Luckily, he was forced to path his own mom to find a land. I peeled serious gas off the top and finished it off with a jitte equipped crusader.
Finals: Elves 0-2
G1: Opening 7 of thalia x 2, lands x 3, and 2 other irrelevants--Auto Mull. Opening 6 of 1 land, 2 stp, mom, SFM, maybe revoker, and an irrelevant. I figure this was probably better than a mull to 5 and if I can draw a land I could seriously take this one home. I don't find a land and he combos off t4.
SB: -1 mangara, -4 thalia, -3 flickerwisp, -1 batterskull, +2 ethersworn canonist, +2 SOTL, +1 E tutor, +2 Council's judgement, +1 pithing needle, +1 Graffdigger's Cage
G2: I keep an opening 7 of stp, revoker, needle, vial, and 3 lands. This was a long debated keep, but honestly his hand was perfect to beat almost any starting 7. I find a sofi which gives me a glimmer of hope, but his answers of thoughtseize and abrupt decay proved way too formidable. I brick on any gas, and he gets the NO for Hoof and promptly wins it.
Facing Grixis Delver, I would probably cut 1 Mangara, 2 revoker, 1 thalia for council's judgement, sotl, and RIP. Postboard they usually bring in grim lavamancer and most builds have deathrite shaman. Rip also helps against random goyf/tombstalker appearances (these builds are pretty varied so it depends on what you see g1).
@Medea: I also don't bother with revokers vs rug. I completely agree with trimming down parts of the SFM package. Jitte is one that I find I board out often.
@Everyone: So could you share exactly how you sb vs. bug delver and shardless bug(I would also love to see delver variants, miracles, and stoneblade variants too if you're in the typing mood)? Let's not dance around this topic anymore. I realize it's a good matchup, but Bug is 15% of the field. I would love to see card for card what you guys are doing. I'll call out some of the big wigs: swordstotimeshares, from cairo, barbed blightning, Finn. Let's do this right guys.
Lands: 23
11 plains
3 karakas
1 horizon canopy
4 wasteland
4 rishadan port
Creatures: 26
4 mother of runes
4 thalia guardian of thraben
4 phyrexian revoker
4 stoneforge mystic
3 serra avenger
3 flickerwisp
2 mirran crusader
1 aven mindcensor
1 mangara of corrondor
4 aether vial
4 swords to plowshares
1 umezawa's jitte
1 batterskull
1 sword of fire and ice
2 ethersworn canonist
2 rest in peace
2 spirit of the labyrinth
2 wilt-leaf liege
2 cataclysm
2 council's judgement
1 pithing needle
1 graffdigger's cage
1 enlightened tutor
Vs. Bug Delver: Ok, so this deck has all kinds of little variations that can alter your sb strategy. From what I gather, lists generally run Liliana or TNN and then hymn or stifle. The problem is that after g1, you may not know which build they're on. Typically I go -1 mindcensor, -1 mangara, -1 thalia, -2 revoker, +2 rip, +2 wilt-leaf, +1 council's judgement. Now here's where I'm sure there's some variation. If you don't see any Lilianas, then their only activated ability is deathrite shaman(most likely). In that case, I'm fine to drop the remaining 2 revokers and add the 2nd judgement and 1 spirit of the labyrinth. If you did see lilianas (meaning no TNN hopefully), then i'd probably keep in 2 revokers. My issue lies with SOTL. Do you guys typically bring in SOTL when you're opponent is just on brainstorm/ponder? Would you bring it is vs. bug delver at all?
Vs. Shardless Bug: This one is tricky. We have too many cards that look good. One thing to note about shardless is that they very rarely run TNN. I go: -1 thalia, -1 mindcensor, -1 mangara, -1 revoker, -3 flickerwisp, +2 rip, +2 wilt leaf, +2 SOTL, +1 pithing needle. They'll be boarding out fows and most likely hymns to bring in golgari charms, toxic deluges, and disfigures. I do my best to keep their x/1 hate in check. Thoughts?
Vs. Rug Delver: Out: 4 revoker. In: 2 council's judgement, 2 rip. I can argue points in siding out mindcensor and mangara for 2 wilt leafs, but I typically don't.
Vs. Miracles: out: 4 stp, 1 jitte, 2 crusader. IN: +2 cataclysm, +1 pithing needle, +2 sotl, +2 council's judgement
Vs. Esper stoneblade: Out: 1 jitte, 1 thalia, 2 crusader, 1 stp In: 2 council's judgement, 2 Sotl, 1 Pithing Needle
Vs. Esper Deathblade: Out: 1 jitte, 1 thalia, 2 crusader, . In: 2 council's judgement, 1 Sotl, +1 pithing needle
Vs. Jund: out: 1 thalia, 1 mindcensor, 1 mangara, 2 revoker. In: 2 rip, 2 wilt leaf, 1 council's judgement
Vs. Patriot Delver: out: 1 thalia, 1 jitte, 2 crusader In: 2 council's judgement, 1 pithing needle, +1 sotl
I'd like to see how you guys sb against the above matchups and maybe we can get some real value in deciding what's effective and what's not in a scg type meta.
On lands: My rule of thumb is >= 6 legends, run 4 karakas. My utility lands are 2x horizon canopy. With wisp, avenger,and brimaz being ww and different creature types, I want to make sure I can cast them on non vial openers.