I'll give this a shot on Cockatrice and see how it plays!
We're pretty busy with our mana, so this gives us a cheaper alternative. Bloodghast makes it pretty easy to conspire anyway. And all that damage from shocks and fetches can add up, somethimes we want the CIPT option, so the one mana is good there too.
And yes, I meant enclave. Zendikar has soo many location titles (Zulaport, lol)
The deckhas been doing well. 4th dakmor was great. Adding loam made manabase too unreliable. You really want to have at least 2 black mana available, so fetching breeding pool seemed a waste.
So I'm starting to wonder if the loam is really worth it. After testing, it jus seems to make the manabase sketchy. I'm going to go back to 4 ideas unbound. With 4 dakmor salvage, we shouldn't have a problem getting lands for VV.
To be perfectly honest, I was testing this tonight a few times and I actually didn't do too bad. The number of dredgers is a too low, so I'm thinking fixing the mana base for Life from the Loam. Also, I thought Shared Discovery was horrible. I used Visions of Beyond instead and it worked beautifully. The deck needs to pump out those VV's so Visions is far from a "win-more" card now- it's a must-have IMO. Also, the VV's were not the easiest to get out by casting 2 Thugs, often times I found myself holding onto a few Crypotologists, Rusalkas, or Crabs so I could get my VV's online. Once they hit the board it was GG most times. I'd like to test against Zoo since that'll be a difficult matchup if we can't get our enablers to stick.
Thanks for trying the deck out. This wasn't too tested, but as I've been plaing I've noticed the same trends. Shared Discovery was kinda a "here's hoping" thing, and I've recently relaced it with memory sluice ot help early on. I wanted to try without loam too, but it seems inevitable now.
And the part about recurring VV with thugs isn't necessarily the game plan, but it's still a very viable option, and one that should be remembered. Please let me know how Visions continues to perform, and I'll try to give more updates as I test.
Just saying it's possible. Y'all keep getting that they will have ARMIES of tarmos and nacatls, and I'm saying magic is full of variance, and a deck that can reliably beat with at least 3 vengevines and bloodgasts by turn 4 seems pretty good.
Also consider this is a less fair version of Dredge-uh-vine, a deck that also had to combat zoo and other broken decks to take 2 top 8s at last years nats. It's good at what it does.
But I don't have to discard all of it. This isn't legacy, there are no breakthroughs. I'm discarding what I want, when I want. And considering that I can go off turn 3, I's day it's pretty broken.
Yes, you will always, ALWAYS have 4 Vengevines and 4 Bloodghasts in play.
Talk about realistic.
It's the whole goal of the deck. That's like saying origional dredge is bad cuz you never get 4 bridge and a dread return. And yes. It's fairly easy to get bloodghasts and VVs in play. If you're gust gonna be closeminded then go troll somewhere else, this is a deck construction thread.
Delightfully weak? The creatures size are so small and the deck burst speed is not fast enough. A Tarmogoyf stops your deck, 2 Tarmogoyfs means you cant even attack through.
And no Bridge from Below is quite fail.
Bridge sucks with no good sac outlet.
And 2 tarmos cannot stop 4 vengevine.
If you slowroll dredge against someone who sandbags their hate, you will very likely win that match, most forms of reliably hate (crypt and relic) have to be on the battlefield to hinder you. If they hold the crypt you can combo out and win via DR'ing a stupidly large GGT, if they have the hate on the field, then you simply let ichorid do his thing until they pop it (usually in response to bridge triggers) then you go right to your DDD and pop a draw spell for the win.
Dredge players that top 8 usually play sub optimally and are simply lucky in the sense that people left their hate at home or they had 3 byes or something. Higher level players tend to not have much hate in the SB because they are gambling they wont see the dredge decks that make it past the legions of noobs with 5000 crypts in the board.
This statement is toxic and ignorant. In a deck that is very draw reliant and requires certain interactions to play, walking into an open field with no answer for hate is asking for trouble. You WILL see hate, and it DOES hurt you. If it didn't, players probably wouldn't play it. And considering most of the players here are fairly new to the deck and don't have enough experience to make that judgment call, I'd say hate is necessary. You might play better without it, but it is not your place to tell them how to build it. Advice is one thing, smug-ass comments and blatant flaming is unneccesary and unwanted.
And the reason we top8 wirh the deck is not because we simply "got lucky". It's because we tirelessly played and tuned the deck. Luck factors in the same it does for every other deck in magic. It will never replace practice, tight play, and an optimal deck. Next time you 4-3 a tourney and wonder other players do better, try considering what you could have done different instead of blaming luck.
As for the question on how to slow-roll opponents, the 1/1 beater plan is suprisingly effective. Considering most of your guys have evasion and can recur, swinging with 1/1s and 2/2s is an easy way to punish do-nothing or threat-light decks like No and Tell, UW, and combo.
Oracle of Theros has the following image saved to her ow.ly account.
Edit: Sorry for the bad formatting, etc. Doing this all from my phone. In other news, checking her account periodically may be profitable.
We're pretty busy with our mana, so this gives us a cheaper alternative. Bloodghast makes it pretty easy to conspire anyway. And all that damage from shocks and fetches can add up, somethimes we want the CIPT option, so the one mana is good there too.
And yes, I meant enclave. Zendikar has soo many location titles (Zulaport, lol)
4 sea-gate cryptologist
4 drowned rusalka
4 magus of the bazaar
2 phantasmogorian
4 bloodghast
4 ideas unbound
4 memory sluice
4 golgari thug
4 stinkweed imp
4 scalding tarn
4 watery grave
4 drakmor salvage
2 island
The deckhas been doing well. 4th dakmor was great. Adding loam made manabase too unreliable. You really want to have at least 2 black mana available, so fetching breeding pool seemed a waste.
Thanks for trying the deck out. This wasn't too tested, but as I've been plaing I've noticed the same trends. Shared Discovery was kinda a "here's hoping" thing, and I've recently relaced it with memory sluice ot help early on. I wanted to try without loam too, but it seems inevitable now.
And the part about recurring VV with thugs isn't necessarily the game plan, but it's still a very viable option, and one that should be remembered. Please let me know how Visions continues to perform, and I'll try to give more updates as I test.
Also consider this is a less fair version of Dredge-uh-vine, a deck that also had to combat zoo and other broken decks to take 2 top 8s at last years nats. It's good at what it does.
It's the whole goal of the deck. That's like saying origional dredge is bad cuz you never get 4 bridge and a dread return. And yes. It's fairly easy to get bloodghasts and VVs in play. If you're gust gonna be closeminded then go troll somewhere else, this is a deck construction thread.
Bridge sucks with no good sac outlet.
And 2 tarmos cannot stop 4 vengevine.
Challenge accepted
4 sea-gate cryptologist
4 drowned rusalka
4 magus of the bazaar
3 phantasmogorian
4 bloodghast
4 ideas unbound
4 shared discovery
4 golgari thug
4 stinkweed imp
4 verdant catacombs
4 watery grave
3 drakmor salvage
2 island
This statement is toxic and ignorant. In a deck that is very draw reliant and requires certain interactions to play, walking into an open field with no answer for hate is asking for trouble. You WILL see hate, and it DOES hurt you. If it didn't, players probably wouldn't play it. And considering most of the players here are fairly new to the deck and don't have enough experience to make that judgment call, I'd say hate is necessary. You might play better without it, but it is not your place to tell them how to build it. Advice is one thing, smug-ass comments and blatant flaming is unneccesary and unwanted.
And the reason we top8 wirh the deck is not because we simply "got lucky". It's because we tirelessly played and tuned the deck. Luck factors in the same it does for every other deck in magic. It will never replace practice, tight play, and an optimal deck. Next time you 4-3 a tourney and wonder other players do better, try considering what you could have done different instead of blaming luck.
As for the question on how to slow-roll opponents, the 1/1 beater plan is suprisingly effective. Considering most of your guys have evasion and can recur, swinging with 1/1s and 2/2s is an easy way to punish do-nothing or threat-light decks like No and Tell, UW, and combo.