The cards you mentioned are worth having a look at, you obviously will be tutoring for auras so I'd probably suggest adding heliod's pilgrim instead of the idyllic tutor (save some $$$). Maybe add song of the dryads as that is a tutor target and good green psuedo-removal.
I took a at look at your decklist and would probably recommend some mana ramp and getting access to some of the temples from theros block as you run a very large number of plains. There are no forests in your mana base yet you are running a misty rainforest with no dual land to target it with? Seems pointless having that in there if all you can get atm is an island. Terramorphic expanse/evolving wilds will give you more options even though they CIP tapped. If you wanna keep the fetch maybe pick up the zendikarduals so you can make better use of it?
Like I said, I think you would benefit from mana fixing and land tutoring. You could run a basic package with kodama's reach, cultivate and rampant growth; and then think about a crop rotation/expedition map or sylvan scrying to tutor for your cathedral of war or perhaps the addition of a rogue's passage. Ideally you want rafiq attacking doing at least 5+ damage to make him a 2 turn clock on an opponent. Rafiq + cathedral of war or any exalted card + distortion strike will get rid of someone quickly.
Yeah the mana base definitely needs an overhaul. The one the deck currently has is mostly just thrown together with random stuff I had laying around and it's been serviceable. Outside of overhauling that, I like all of the other aura suggestions. I've noticed the deck has some card draw issues so I'm glad you mentioned Snake Umbra. I'm going to look at more ways of drawing cards off of combat damage. Something I've been considering along those lines is Bident of Thassa, especially because I can potentially tutor it up with it being an enchantment. I may just try it out and see how it works.
Auras will be cheaper to build and cheaper to put onto rafiq as you don't need to cast and equip. 2 for 1s can occur but that is why you run counter magic and the better auras. Shield of the oversoul and steel of the godhead are options and you can also experiment with the sovereigns of lost alara and eldrazi conscription combo. In addition this can also work well with controlling effects and if in a pinch you can surprise people with a OHK from corrupted conscience. The truth is they just don't end up sticking around the whole game, but the value you can potentially get from them is there.
As far as countermagic is concerned focus on hard counters that aren't expensive. Swan song and counterspell are the obvious ones but don't be afraid of using the spell crumple/hinder/dissipate/negate ones as well. I recommend running at least 5 to 6 counters.
Typically though, most competitive Rafiq builds are aggro builds that run a lot of mana dorks and swords, benefiting from the two combat damage triggers as much as possible.
Personally I only run a few things not many people use. I have spinebiter and might of oaks in my 99, but then again, it's not a competitive deck. What is your budget?
I feel like the counterspells I currently run run along the "cute" end of the spectrum but there are much better options out there (which you've listed). How do you feel about the auras the deck currently runs? Are there any that I've overlooked that you'd suggest? Also, I've been considering running Replenish and some enchantment tutors (like Enlightened Tutor and Idyllic Tutor). I figure those will help make the deck more consistent (or at least make certain pieces more available more often). Should I run more tutors or just more card draw?
I've been playing Rafiq quite a bit since I put the deck together and its a lot of fun, especially when I get a fast start and then convert into a more durdley game and finish everyone off with a couple of 'tronned out swings with Rafiq for the win. However, as I look more into how to power him up, I see 2 different ways of going with the deck: auras and equipment. Now, I see the benefit of going with both but I was wondering if there was a reason to focus on one and why? I've been playing aura-tron and it definitely has its weaknesses, especially since you set yourself up for a lot of 2 or more for 1s, but I also tend to encounter a lot more artifact hate than I do for enchantments so I'm not sure which is better in the long-term.
That said, it's also a blue deck and I'm not that experienced in building countermagic suites for decks that run blue. So, how many counterspells would you run in an EDH deck, especially one that is more combat focused?
Lastly, if you play Rafiq, what do you run that you don't see many other people who play this commander run? Is there any sort of special advice you would give for someone who is pretty new to building EDH decks to be more competitive and consistent?
I agree this set is very powerful and has a lot of cards that will impact standard and modern in a big way.
But Sphinx of the Final Word is only a sideboard card for control mirrors. There's literally no way people will choose to play it over Dragonlord Ojutai or any other win condition basically.
Sure. I'm just saying I think it'll see play. Transgress the Mind and Exert Influence both have only seen play in the sideboard, but they're still in standard and have been in top-8 decks.
I have to say, I'm just not a fan of Narset Transcendent. She misses 33 cards of your 60 card deck (just over 50%) and has no way to protect herself.
She doesn't need to protect herself because she is protected by: 1. Sylvan Advocate, 2. flipped Jace (quick to flip with Oath of Jace and fetchlands), 3. Oath of Gideon (creates two chump blockers + give her one more loyalty), 4. Fogs and 5. Planar Outburst. And even with none of those things she goes up to 7 loyalty which isn't the same as a 4 loyalty planeswalker (which need more protection). There is no Hero's Downfall in the format and not many decks run more than 1-2 Ruinous Path so the main way to deal with walkers is via direct combat damage and not many decks can do 7+ damage on t4. Only Abzan Aggro and Atarka Red I guess. But aggro decks are often better off ignoring her and trying to go for the kill before I get to Planar Outburst. Attacking her is only buying me more time and essentially preventing damage for 2 turns.
You're also forgetting that Oath of Jace allows me to scry X. Scrying in combination with Narset is pretty powerful. A lot more powerful than you seem to realize. I know because I was already using Narset in conjuction with scry lands, Jace, the Living Guildpact and Courser of Kruphix. Of course the Bant deck was pretty bad back then because mono red burn was too quick and RG devotion was dropping Dragonlord Atarka on t4. But Atarka red doesn't have anywhere near as much reach as mono red did and a single fog or instant speed removal can completely shut the combo down.
I agree that Narset + scry effects is good but you're running 3 in the whole deck. It's definitely a strong interaction but you have to spend turn 3 and 4 dropping your Oath followed by Narset which means protecting her is heavily dependent on dropping a Jace or Advocate on 2. If you manage to miss your 2 drop or don't catch Narset when you either have or are able to have an Oath on the board, then it becomes harder to set up for her. It just feels like just having her there is expecting your opponent to not interact with your board or that you're setting up too much for "magical Christmas land".
You do realize that Domri Rade was looking at almost the same % chance of drawing a card as Narset in that list, right?
Yup! I also remember the deck where he gained a lot of popularity and he had about a 50/50 shot of hitting a creature. He also has built-in removal in his -2 ability. So, yeah, very different case here since it's a lot harder to make a deck for Narset in the same way you could build around Domri giving you card advantage.
If Savage Knuckleblade has taught me anything it is 3 mana activated abilities on creatures that require colors cost too much. There is very few creatures with ETB to abuse.
Honestly nothing in this set has impressed me for constructed. It is all vanilla guys with activated abilities with colorless mana and kicker. Tarkir block is still going to dominate and after that DTK will after rotation. This entire block is crap for constructed.
Cards that have seen play in constructed and done well:
And that's assuming Allies and the land/creature Awaken deck don't become a thing. That seems to be a pretty decent-sized list of things that are very playable in current standard from BfZ and Oath. Yup. Totally bad sets
New take on the Bant version. The biggest change is I'm dropping Nissa, Voice of Zendikar entirely as I don't feel like she works well with this new direction I'm going for. Nissa is more about going wide and pumping creature cards. But this isn't token/creature oriented and I feel like Gideon is enough.
Tech time: I can use Jace and Oath of Jace to pitch any extra Sylvan Advocate to the graveyard. This way if they Ugin -4, I can end step Ojutai's Command to get back Sylvan Advocate. Then kill Ugin with 4/5 Advocate and attack them with 5/5 Lumbering Falls. Or maybe even ignore Ugin and kill them if I have 1-2 emblems out.
Blue allows for Jace, Oath of Jace and Dig which I find more powerful and interesting than Oath of Nissa overall (what if one of the top 3 cards is a Planar Outburst you need?). Oath of Jace draws 3. You keep those 3 amazing cards and throw away cards you don't need. That is very good card selection + obviously fuels delve to Dig. Not to mention blue also gives me access to counterspells post-board which is relevant vs Eldrazi Ramp.
Not a lot of interesting spells to rebound with Narset unfortunately. But I'm thinking about mostly using her +1. With only 8 creatures she will draw me a lot of cards. And she can always rebound Ojutai's Command, Planar Outburst and Dig Trhough Time which is great. Also with Oath of Gideon she is just 2 activations away from ultimate range which destroys a lot of strategies.
I considered Kiora, Master of the Depths for a while just for the interaction with Jace and Hangarback Walker (being able to untap them to use their tap ability twice per turn) but then I realized her -2 isn't good in my deck as I have very few creatures so I would only get one land at most.
I have to say, I'm just not a fan of Narset Transcendent. She misses 33 cards of your 60 card deck (just over 50%) and has no way to protect herself. Yeah, it's nice to use her - ability on a Dig Through Time but I feel like there are just better cards that you can run in her place. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar seems to be the best fit because, alongside Gideon, she presents a lot of interesting board states. You can drop her on 3, make a 0/1, if it sticks around, drop Gideon and either anthem or make a 2/2 and use Nissa's - to put a bunch of counters on your tokens. Late game it gets even better because you can just keep pumping out tokens to go wide with.
B/W with Eldrazi Displacer could be very interesting:
Creatures (15)
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Knight of the White Orchid
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Wingmate Roc
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Spells (16)
4 Silkwrap
4 Stasis Snare
1 Murderous Cut
2 Secure the Wastes
1 Ultimate Price
4 Transgress the Mind
25 Länder
Knight of the White Orchid also works very well with Eldrazi Displacer.
It's definitely an interesting interaction but what are you ramping towards? Also, you're likely only using this interaction every other turn so the advantage is pretty minimal. Like, you can go Displacer on 3, Knight on 4 before you play your land, play a land so now you have 5 in play. On turn 5, you already have as many lands as your opponent so flickering the Knight doesn't do anything.
I was thinking about fitting this lil' buddy straight into Abzan aristocrats, but going Bant sure is the idea I like (Void Grafter, Bring to Light). I'm just guessing - what could possibly be a wincon for such a deck? Black has obviously Zulaport Cutthroat, red has Impact Tremors and Outpost Siege.
You also get access to Flayer Drone. Mardu with a splash of green actually doesn't sound too bad for this sort of deck. It's not like we don't already have a ton of ways to build an incredibly flexible mana base.
Between Eldrazi Displacer and Mirror Mockery this could be a board denial deck. Plus, it's in U/W which presents a lot of mean control options. I'm with Kamahl on this one. I think this guy is going to be the card to watch for. Gonna put in an order for a playset as soon as I can because I foresee this being money down the line.
It also works with any of the Origins flip-walkers. Considering how often I see a new Jace getting played, it might not be terrible. Early game you bolt their 2-drop and then every 'walker you play and every time you flip a Jace or Nissa, it shocks their face. Doesn't sound that bad to me but I would definitely not run it over Oath of Jace or Gideon.
I've made a couple of adjustments to the deck. You are right about the board wipes, they are better designed for sideboards, and even then I put too many in. I like the Eldrazi Displacer and the Rite of Undoing. Any more improvements, bar fetch lands, which you can obviously substitute into the deck.
I would consider dropping Narset for 1 more Jace and 2 copies of Dragonlord Ojutai. He's a big threat and can generate some crazy card advantage. With nearly 1/6 of your deck as creatures and almost 1/2 of it as a card that Narset will miss with her + ability, I feel like she's not that good for your deck.
I'm curious how good Renown will be outside of limited. Seems like a lot of creatures with the ability with very little built-in evasion to help push through damage. There has also only been one spoiled card that actually has any Renown synergy (Enshrouding Mist). I'm hoping for a little more support in the cards we haven't seen.
Heya! I've been playing Ghave since I picked up the Counterpunch commander deck back in 2011. The deck has undergone several revisions and I wound up taking it apart to completely reconstruct it in a way I was happy with. Here is the result:
In playing the deck, I am quite happy with a lot of the synergies in it. I'm very much a "Johnny" when it comes to the decks I play a lot and there are a few fun and heinous combos in there. That said, there are a few cards that are rather underwhelming.
Gideon Jura: He doesn't really fit in. I honestly added him because he's a decent beater, forces opponents to attack into him (rather than, say, my face) but doesn't do much to further my strategy of "play enchantments, sacrifice stuff, clear opponent's boards until they get to play draw-go". I really did just throw him in for card #99 because I didn't have anything else I wanted in there at the time.
Parallel Lives: Don't get me wrong, this card is amazing when I need to pump out tokens on the cheap but it's been underwhelming in most of the games I've got it out in.
Glare of Subdual: It's been handy when I've managed to get more creatures than anyone else but does mostly nothing if my opponents can keep my board in check or if my draw is wonky (which has happened). It's either great or awful and nowhere in-between.
So, some stuff I am looking at:
Phyrexian Arena: More draw is great and I can search it out fairly easily.
Privileged Position: Another way to keep my enchantments from getting blown up seems useful to me.
Ajani Steadfast: His ult can really help stall out a game and should be easy with Doubling Season in play. Not a bad replacement for Gideon.
Garruk, Caller of Beasts: Another decent Gideon replacement. He lets me fish through my deck and hand to get more creatures into play. Should help hunt down combo pieces and win games faster. Not sure how good he is, though, since I've never used him.
Lastly, I am trying to keep this at somewhat of a budget. Yes, I am aware that there are some somewhat pricy cards in there but that was mostly due to lucking out on having them available before they jumped up in price (I'm looking at you, Martyr's Bond). Any feedback and/or suggestions are most welcome! Thanks!
Yeah the mana base definitely needs an overhaul. The one the deck currently has is mostly just thrown together with random stuff I had laying around and it's been serviceable. Outside of overhauling that, I like all of the other aura suggestions. I've noticed the deck has some card draw issues so I'm glad you mentioned Snake Umbra. I'm going to look at more ways of drawing cards off of combat damage. Something I've been considering along those lines is Bident of Thassa, especially because I can potentially tutor it up with it being an enchantment. I may just try it out and see how it works.
This is what my Rafiq deck looks like at the moment: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/auratron-rafiq/
I feel like the counterspells I currently run run along the "cute" end of the spectrum but there are much better options out there (which you've listed). How do you feel about the auras the deck currently runs? Are there any that I've overlooked that you'd suggest? Also, I've been considering running Replenish and some enchantment tutors (like Enlightened Tutor and Idyllic Tutor). I figure those will help make the deck more consistent (or at least make certain pieces more available more often). Should I run more tutors or just more card draw?
That said, it's also a blue deck and I'm not that experienced in building countermagic suites for decks that run blue. So, how many counterspells would you run in an EDH deck, especially one that is more combat focused?
Lastly, if you play Rafiq, what do you run that you don't see many other people who play this commander run? Is there any sort of special advice you would give for someone who is pretty new to building EDH decks to be more competitive and consistent?
Sure. I'm just saying I think it'll see play. Transgress the Mind and Exert Influence both have only seen play in the sideboard, but they're still in standard and have been in top-8 decks.
I agree that Narset + scry effects is good but you're running 3 in the whole deck. It's definitely a strong interaction but you have to spend turn 3 and 4 dropping your Oath followed by Narset which means protecting her is heavily dependent on dropping a Jace or Advocate on 2. If you manage to miss your 2 drop or don't catch Narset when you either have or are able to have an Oath on the board, then it becomes harder to set up for her. It just feels like just having her there is expecting your opponent to not interact with your board or that you're setting up too much for "magical Christmas land".
Yup! I also remember the deck where he gained a lot of popularity and he had about a 50/50 shot of hitting a creature. He also has built-in removal in his -2 ability. So, yeah, very different case here since it's a lot harder to make a deck for Narset in the same way you could build around Domri giving you card advantage.
Cards that have seen play in constructed and done well:
Yeah, totally. BfZ is sooooo bad for constructed /sarcasm
As for Oath? Here's my list of cards that will likely see play in standard, just from this set:
And that's assuming Allies and the land/creature Awaken deck don't become a thing. That seems to be a pretty decent-sized list of things that are very playable in current standard from BfZ and Oath. Yup. Totally bad sets
I have to say, I'm just not a fan of Narset Transcendent. She misses 33 cards of your 60 card deck (just over 50%) and has no way to protect herself. Yeah, it's nice to use her - ability on a Dig Through Time but I feel like there are just better cards that you can run in her place. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar seems to be the best fit because, alongside Gideon, she presents a lot of interesting board states. You can drop her on 3, make a 0/1, if it sticks around, drop Gideon and either anthem or make a 2/2 and use Nissa's - to put a bunch of counters on your tokens. Late game it gets even better because you can just keep pumping out tokens to go wide with.
It's definitely an interesting interaction but what are you ramping towards? Also, you're likely only using this interaction every other turn so the advantage is pretty minimal. Like, you can go Displacer on 3, Knight on 4 before you play your land, play a land so now you have 5 in play. On turn 5, you already have as many lands as your opponent so flickering the Knight doesn't do anything.
You also get access to Flayer Drone. Mardu with a splash of green actually doesn't sound too bad for this sort of deck. It's not like we don't already have a ton of ways to build an incredibly flexible mana base.
I would consider dropping Narset for 1 more Jace and 2 copies of Dragonlord Ojutai. He's a big threat and can generate some crazy card advantage. With nearly 1/6 of your deck as creatures and almost 1/2 of it as a card that Narset will miss with her + ability, I feel like she's not that good for your deck.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Crovax, Ascendant Hero
Darien, King of Kjeldor
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Kemba, Kha Regent
Mikaeus, the Lunarch
Odric, Master Tactician
Reya Dawnbringer
1 Ghave, Guru of Spores
Creatures:
1 Strangleroot Giest
1 Geralf's Messenger
1 Skeletal Vampire
1 Fallen Angel
1 Twilight Drover
1 Spiritmonger
1 Falkenrath Noble
1 Blood Artist
1 Eternal Witness
1 Acidic Slime
1 Corpsejack Menace
1 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
1 Suture Priest
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
Enchantments:
1 Grave Pact
1 Dictate of Erebos
1 Martyr's Bond
1 Primal Vigor
1 Parallel Lives
1 Doubling Season
1 Cathars' Crusade
1 Debtors' Knell
1 Sterling Grove
1 Aura Shards
1 Glare of Subdual
1 Necrogenesis
1 Rampant Growth
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Cultivate
1 Remember the Fallen
1 Reclaim
1 Noxious Revival
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Martial Coup
1 Damnation
1 Putrefy
1 Path to Exile
1 Day of Judgment
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Abzan Charm
1 Mortify
1 Condemn
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Austere Command
Artifacts:
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Golgari Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gideon Jura
Land:
8 Forest
8 Plains
8 Swamp
1 Command Tower
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Barren Moor
In playing the deck, I am quite happy with a lot of the synergies in it. I'm very much a "Johnny" when it comes to the decks I play a lot and there are a few fun and heinous combos in there. That said, there are a few cards that are rather underwhelming.
So, some stuff I am looking at:
Lastly, I am trying to keep this at somewhat of a budget. Yes, I am aware that there are some somewhat pricy cards in there but that was mostly due to lucking out on having them available before they jumped up in price (I'm looking at you, Martyr's Bond). Any feedback and/or suggestions are most welcome! Thanks!