It helps you dig what you need from your deck, and yes it's bigger. And you could be right but I do want to see if it helps out lol
Also, Forbidden Alchemy is an instant, which is always a big deal with a Draw-Go style deck. If going the Control route, you never want to tap out against your opponent. Keep the options open. The flashback also allows some late game reach (although the casting cost is steep). I'm sticking with Pilfered Plans even though it's a Sorcery at the moment. I'm not as keen on the idea of having stuff go to the graveyard if I can't get it back. Don't want to accidentally knock out something important. And the 2 mill can help sometimes if the opponent is hoping to topdeck something. I also think if going with the control route Opportunity should be included. It works wonders once you've lasted to the late game.
The deck feels much smoother now. While it does feel a bit odd only having 3 Jace, 2 Mind Grind as a win con, I've found usually I can mill a good portion, hit the Crypt Incursion, and then stall out the rest of the game. I've been gaining 30+ life off it if I can pop at the right time.
Man, how did I forget Ratchet Bomb? That seems like a great addition. Usually against decks that mostly about dropping fatties (I'm looking at you Thragtusk + Resto), the spot removal works enough. It's the Rakdos, All In, token, etc decks that I can't hold up on. But with Ratchet for 1-2 I could definitely see things changing in my favor.
Is the playset of Jace too much? I mean, I definitely want to see him every game, and multiples don't hurt in case he gets eaten at some point or the rare occasion I use him for some extra card draw. But maybe more Mind Grinds as the main source of a win con would be better?
Also, how viable are Millstone and Codex Shredder? With Drownyard going away, are these going to be more necessary to give us something to do?
Here's a rotation friendly list that I've been tinkering with. It's mostly UB Control with mill as the win con. Sadly, most of the time I play or test it I just feel like it doesn't work unless I'm willing to go Esper or Grixis for sweepers and extra utility. Thoughts / comments would be helpful though. Trying to keep it two colors if possible.
I'd been toying with Mirko Vosk and Abberation but fear that in a straight control build, they'd just eat removal right away as they'd be the only creatures. The lack of sweeper is really what kills it for me though. If aggro really gets going, I just haven't been able to keep up with it. The 3 Crypt Incursion helps, but only so far. Just to deal with aggro a little more I may have to throw in some sort of wall to give me breathing room. Not sure yet.
Sideboard isn't clear yet, but is mostly more counters if I'm facing control, the finished playset of my removal if facing aggro, Wight of Precinct Six as a bit of a transformational piece, Duress, etc.
Yeah. I always mull until I have one G land and a mill creature. It's risky, but if I keep hands without, it can get rough.
I really like the idea of Gnaw To The Bone. I used it in a Dredge style deck awhile back that used Splinterfright and it always netted me tons of life to keep me alive in games.
I'm trying:
-1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
-1 Abundant Growth
-1 Fiend Hunter
+1 Unburial Rites
+2 Gnaw To The Bone
It seems to be working out. Sometimes the W off Avacyn can really mess with me when I'm trying to do early ramp and need that G so I figured I'd cut that one. Fiend Hunter felt a little random to me as a 1-of so I cut it (unless there's a better reason for it?). The Growth seemed okay to cut since it doesn't pull land out for you, just fixes your manabase (which is nice, but not as important as the others to me). With the third Unburial, I feel a lot less stressed milling because I can almost always hit one when I need to. Gnaw netted me +34 life on turn 5 in my most recent game which is pretty good in my book. Granted, 5 can still be too slow for decks like AIR, but we can always chump our mana producers a little to stall out for the Gnaw.
Exactly my point ... less mana grabbing, more combo grabbing ... perhaps I mis-understand the deck, I just don't know why you need only 10 lands.
As far as I've been testing, the 10 lands is mainly just so when you start milling off the guys, you'll deck yourself much easier/faster. But I suppose the number could slide a bit. Honestly, I might try dropping down to even 9.
i feel like this thread is straight trolling. 10 lands? not even draft decks run that low of a count.
It's definitely not trolling. I've been goldfishing MrPhysics list and it runs really smoothly. With the amount of ramp there is, I always have 6-7 of the land out by the time I combo. I almost never miss a land drop with all the ramp going on. If 10 land stompy can do it, then this one can too.
The only issue is trying to make the combo go faster or get a bit of a defense going while we try to combo out to protect ourselves.
First, this deck is and always will be a worse humanimator. When thats said, its not implying that this deck is trying to win with humanimator combo but does it worse. It means that the deck has the same weaknesses as humanimator with fewer strengths.
That said, the deck can be improved. The manabase has too many lands that fail to produce G, and mulch makes no sense in a 10 land deck. Here is my build of your deck
Been goldfishing this list a lot this afternoon and while it is consistent, I can't get it to pop off any earlier than turn 7. Without any sort of protection or resiliency to stall out, what do you do? The only think I can think of is maybe some Rolling Temblor to stall out since it has flashback, but that is way off color unless you get lucky with Abundant Growth.
@suliscrew do the Lingering Souls work enough? While the flashback is nice, I'd be worried about 1/1s helping you last long.
mine is straightforward red blue colors only. armed // dangerous is the spell that grants doublestrike in red. i recently finished first with this deck:
How consistent is the deck without running playsets? Do you ever miss having them, or does 3 usually do it for you? I'd be worried about running into disruption and then not drawing another piece when I need it. Though I suppose with 7 draw spells there's a decent amount of digging.
I'm currently working on a straight UR version so I don't plan on including Feeling Of Dread. Would Nightbird's Clutches or Hands of Binding be a suitable replacement? Or is it the instant speed that makes Dread so much power compared to the other options?
Are most people running Mizzium Skin in the main now or is that more of a sideboard card?
Hey, so I haven't played magic in about a year but I'm looking to start up again and I'm really digging the Werewolf look. A couple quick questions because I can't seem to find specific answers while flipping through these 140ish pages.
Young Wolf looks pretty sweet to me. In a RG build, it has the potential to be 4/4 for 1 which sounds awesome. There's also an option to go in a sligh style and use 12 one drops with that, Waif, and Captive. Yet most lists I've seen don't run it. Why is that? Other cards just push the curve up or don't seem like they're all that special either (like Gatstaf Shepherd). What's the reasoning behind this or what cards would you suggest instead of it?
Also, I've seen a lot of talk lately about Full Moon's Rise but again, not many lists are maining it and only a few are SB it. What are the pros/cons for main vs sb or running it at all? Is it more a meta option? And if so what metas would you be looking out for to use it?
On a smaller note, Pyreheart Wolf seems like a fun utility card, but I can understand the 1/1 being a deterrent. I've noticed a couple lists running it and seen a little discussion but again, not really a direct answer. I'm considering using 2 in my build, but just wanted to know a little more.
What should the burn package be like? I'm guessing this is more a meta option too? Right now I'm thinking a 4/2 split of Incinerate and Arc Trail with some extra burn in the sideboard. What else should be considered?
I know that's a lot of questions, but thanks in advance if you can answer any of them.
Yeah, I do think GSZ could add a nice toolbox for the deck like 1-ofs of Acidic Slime and maybe Thrun, the Last Troll and stuff. What other creatures might I consider if I go this route? I do admit I just kind of threw in Glistener to fill up space and for the potential on a pumped Ezuri run that infect would work.
My only concern would be with more spells in the deck it might hurt the potency of LtS.
Then to go along with that, I'd assume 4 Ancient Grudge into the sideboard perhaps instead of Naturalize?
Any other suggestions?
I noticed Whipflare and Slagstorm are showing up in certain decks. Are sweepers common in the format now? With Ezuri there's some hope at combatting it, but I'm a little concerned that the little guys will just get blown away.
Hey all. So, I haven't played Magic since M12 came in so I really don't know what the game looks like right now. But I had a lot of fun with Elves before I stopped and I'm hoping to get back in. I really don't know what kind of cards are still around, but I think the deck still has some good speed even with the loss of some of the old mana builders. Here's what I can come up with.
Strategy is very straight forward. Throw elves down and rush the opponent. I don't really know what the format's like so I'm guessing on the sideboard.
Thoughts? Since I'm so out of the loop, any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Since I got three Sheoldred, Whispering One at the prerelease and I loved reanimator back in Legacy, I was wondering, is there any way to make an FNM level competitive reanimator for Standard? I have no intention of going to big events but top8ing FNMs would be nice. I did the "dredge combo" back with all the unearth guys. I figured mill with Hedron Crab, Sheoldred, and Rise From The Grave as the basis. Probably the blue praetor as one of the mill targets. I'd probably need Sphere of the Suns and Everflowing Chalice as well so Sheoldred and RftG aren't so unbearably slow.
Is there any viable way to pull a deck like this off? Basically lots of draw / counter magic and then reanimate some bombs? And if so, what kind of bombs are worth looking in to? Or is this option just simply too slow and fragile for the current state of standard?
Also, Forbidden Alchemy is an instant, which is always a big deal with a Draw-Go style deck. If going the Control route, you never want to tap out against your opponent. Keep the options open. The flashback also allows some late game reach (although the casting cost is steep). I'm sticking with Pilfered Plans even though it's a Sorcery at the moment. I'm not as keen on the idea of having stuff go to the graveyard if I can't get it back. Don't want to accidentally knock out something important. And the 2 mill can help sometimes if the opponent is hoping to topdeck something. I also think if going with the control route Opportunity should be included. It works wonders once you've lasted to the late game.
-1 Opportunity
-1 Jace, Memory Adept
-1 Far // Away
+3 Ratchet Bomb
The deck feels much smoother now. While it does feel a bit odd only having 3 Jace, 2 Mind Grind as a win con, I've found usually I can mill a good portion, hit the Crypt Incursion, and then stall out the rest of the game. I've been gaining 30+ life off it if I can pop at the right time.
Maybe:
-1 Doom Blade
-1 Ultimate Price
-1 Jace
+3 Ratchet Bomb?
Is the playset of Jace too much? I mean, I definitely want to see him every game, and multiples don't hurt in case he gets eaten at some point or the rare occasion I use him for some extra card draw. But maybe more Mind Grinds as the main source of a win con would be better?
Also, how viable are Millstone and Codex Shredder? With Drownyard going away, are these going to be more necessary to give us something to do?
3 Doom Blade
3 Ultimate Price
2 Warped Physique
3 Cyclonic Rift
2 Opportunity
3 Crypt Incursion
2 Psychic Strike
2 Syncopate
2 Mind Grind
4 Watery Grave
12 Island
11 Swamp
I'd been toying with Mirko Vosk and Abberation but fear that in a straight control build, they'd just eat removal right away as they'd be the only creatures. The lack of sweeper is really what kills it for me though. If aggro really gets going, I just haven't been able to keep up with it. The 3 Crypt Incursion helps, but only so far. Just to deal with aggro a little more I may have to throw in some sort of wall to give me breathing room. Not sure yet.
Sideboard isn't clear yet, but is mostly more counters if I'm facing control, the finished playset of my removal if facing aggro, Wight of Precinct Six as a bit of a transformational piece, Duress, etc.
Just watched the stream. Awesome! What did you add with the last cut land?
I really like the idea of Gnaw To The Bone. I used it in a Dredge style deck awhile back that used Splinterfright and it always netted me tons of life to keep me alive in games.
I'm trying:
-1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
-1 Abundant Growth
-1 Fiend Hunter
+1 Unburial Rites
+2 Gnaw To The Bone
It seems to be working out. Sometimes the W off Avacyn can really mess with me when I'm trying to do early ramp and need that G so I figured I'd cut that one. Fiend Hunter felt a little random to me as a 1-of so I cut it (unless there's a better reason for it?). The Growth seemed okay to cut since it doesn't pull land out for you, just fixes your manabase (which is nice, but not as important as the others to me). With the third Unburial, I feel a lot less stressed milling because I can almost always hit one when I need to. Gnaw netted me +34 life on turn 5 in my most recent game which is pretty good in my book. Granted, 5 can still be too slow for decks like AIR, but we can always chump our mana producers a little to stall out for the Gnaw.
It's definitely not trolling. I've been goldfishing MrPhysics list and it runs really smoothly. With the amount of ramp there is, I always have 6-7 of the land out by the time I combo. I almost never miss a land drop with all the ramp going on. If 10 land stompy can do it, then this one can too.
The only issue is trying to make the combo go faster or get a bit of a defense going while we try to combo out to protect ourselves.
Been goldfishing this list a lot this afternoon and while it is consistent, I can't get it to pop off any earlier than turn 7. Without any sort of protection or resiliency to stall out, what do you do? The only think I can think of is maybe some Rolling Temblor to stall out since it has flashback, but that is way off color unless you get lucky with Abundant Growth.
@suliscrew do the Lingering Souls work enough? While the flashback is nice, I'd be worried about 1/1s helping you last long.
How consistent is the deck without running playsets? Do you ever miss having them, or does 3 usually do it for you? I'd be worried about running into disruption and then not drawing another piece when I need it. Though I suppose with 7 draw spells there's a decent amount of digging.
I'm currently working on a straight UR version so I don't plan on including Feeling Of Dread. Would Nightbird's Clutches or Hands of Binding be a suitable replacement? Or is it the instant speed that makes Dread so much power compared to the other options?
Are most people running Mizzium Skin in the main now or is that more of a sideboard card?
Thanks.
Young Wolf looks pretty sweet to me. In a RG build, it has the potential to be 4/4 for 1 which sounds awesome. There's also an option to go in a sligh style and use 12 one drops with that, Waif, and Captive. Yet most lists I've seen don't run it. Why is that? Other cards just push the curve up or don't seem like they're all that special either (like Gatstaf Shepherd). What's the reasoning behind this or what cards would you suggest instead of it?
Also, I've seen a lot of talk lately about Full Moon's Rise but again, not many lists are maining it and only a few are SB it. What are the pros/cons for main vs sb or running it at all? Is it more a meta option? And if so what metas would you be looking out for to use it?
On a smaller note, Pyreheart Wolf seems like a fun utility card, but I can understand the 1/1 being a deterrent. I've noticed a couple lists running it and seen a little discussion but again, not really a direct answer. I'm considering using 2 in my build, but just wanted to know a little more.
What should the burn package be like? I'm guessing this is more a meta option too? Right now I'm thinking a 4/2 split of Incinerate and Arc Trail with some extra burn in the sideboard. What else should be considered?
I know that's a lot of questions, but thanks in advance if you can answer any of them.
My only concern would be with more spells in the deck it might hurt the potency of LtS.
Any other suggestions?
I noticed Whipflare and Slagstorm are showing up in certain decks. Are sweepers common in the format now? With Ezuri there's some hope at combatting it, but I'm a little concerned that the little guys will just get blown away.
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Copperhorn Scout
4 Glistener Elf
4 Viridian Emissary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
2 Viridian Corrupter
4 Lead the Stampede
22 Forest
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Viridian Corrupter
2 Autumn's Veil
2 Corrosive Gale
4 Beast Within
3 Naturalize
Strategy is very straight forward. Throw elves down and rush the opponent. I don't really know what the format's like so I'm guessing on the sideboard.
Thoughts? Since I'm so out of the loop, any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Is there any viable way to pull a deck like this off? Basically lots of draw / counter magic and then reanimate some bombs? And if so, what kind of bombs are worth looking in to? Or is this option just simply too slow and fragile for the current state of standard?