Harrow and Khalni heart expedition were cards in Zendikar, WITH fetchlands, and they were no means broken, nor rare, for anybody who says this 6 mana card is a powerhouse. I guess from a design perspective, adding another effect, lifegain, to this card could make it rare, but that makes me wonder why it wasn't linked to the number of lands you control, hopefully netting you closer to 9 after casting this, and then scaling up afterwards.
Boo on this being a rare, take off the lifegain and make it an uncommon. I thought the ENTIRE reason for making 2 set blocks was to alleviate all the bad worthless rares that were "too hard to fill sets with" and give us better quality and valuable cards, yet we keep seeing more and more of this so far...
I've toyed around with Guild Titan design in the sense that they were just two colored Titans, but I like how you tied them into being actual guild leaders. I also think it's important that the mana costs be representative of their color identities, and with two mana of each color in the costs is perfect, anything less, I don't feel would do them flavor justice while also showing their power. Now, I obviously don't work for WotC so take my opinions with a grain of salt, but I've been looking into design here and there so my feedback is from a perspective I believe is accurate in my eyes.
Szadek 2UUBB
Legendary Creature - Vampire
Flying
Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or a card is put into an opponent’s graveyard from his or her hand or library, you may cast an instant or sorcery card from your graveyard. If that card would be put into a graveyard this turn, exile it instead.
5/5
I like the cost. While I agree that the etb ability doesn't seem super beneficial because of how much he initially costs, remember that not all titans were symmetrical in design, Frost titan and Inferno titan being the odd ones compared to the rest. maybe putting an ability that says Pay N: Target player puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard. The cost could be like 2 or 3 mana and synergizes with the second part of his ability. A note on that as well, I think the wording of "whever a card..." might actually trigger multiple times for each card put there that way, and giving multiple spells flashback seems a bit too powerful despite still needing mana to cast them. A thoughtseize becomes super powerful, and then being able to flash it back and get another spell seems too good. maybe taking away the etb ability, giving it a paid mill ability and "whenever a card is put into an opponent's graveyard from his or her hand or library, you may pay N. If you do, target instant or sorcery in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn." I'm not entirely sure how to only trigger this once per turn since most once per turn abilities are activated. Maybe put some clause that says "for the first card put into a graveyard..." so it only triggers once or something. If it still triggers multiple times, paying an additional cost can help balance that maybe.
Mat'Selesnya 4GGWW
Legendary Creature - Dryad Elemental
Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or a creature enters the battlefield under your control, creatures you control gain indestructible until end of turn.
8/8
I really like this card. Flash creatures, though seldom, or even instant token effects, seem really cool with this. while it seems too strong, Avacyn, angel of hope was an unconditional indestructible, at 8 mana for an 8/8. It also had vigilance and flying, which I don't really find reasonable for such a powerful card but whatever. This doesn't step on her toes, so maybe adding a non-trample ability but still easily blockable would probably be fair.
<Orzhov Parun> WWBB
Legendary Creature - Human Cleric
Lifelink
Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or you gain life, put a 2/2 white and black Thrull creature token with lifelink onto the battlefield.
3/5
At first I thought this effect was too good since you could use multiple lifegain instances to create a lot of tokens, and multiple triggers of extort grow an army, but grave titan did enter and attack with 2 2/2's so maybe it's okay as is. Maybe 1/1s would be better, and they also reference Teysa, Orzhov Scion in her way of creating 1/1 spirits so maybe that's flavor to consider I guess.
Svogthir 1BBGG
Legendary Creature - Human Shaman
Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or a creature dies, you may put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control.
4/4
A +1/+1 counter on all your creatures upon entering seems rather strong. Even for a creature drying, I don't play any sort of combo in any format, but I feel like that could be easily abused. On second thought though, Cathars' Crusade is a card and this is like a reverse to it. still though, a creature entering might be hard to pull off multiple instances of than a creature constantly dying. I feel like Marath, will of the Wild's X can't be 0 errata was to stop Crusade and constant dies triggers. Also, I think it should be at least regulated to all other creatures you control and not the legend itself, I think that's fairer at least
Razia 1RRWW
Legendary Creature - Angel
Flying, vigilance
Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or attacks, creatures you control get +2/+2 until end of turn.
5/4
I'm fond of anthem legends or creatures, Jor Kadeen, the prevailer being my favorite, this is very close to that. it's +2/+2 could nearly just be a static effect except for the multiple attacks red gets, and the blink white gets, so I get it. I'm not fond of Legends in commander that are a 3 turn clock, because this can deal 7 damage on attack, I don't quite like it. Making it a 4/4, regulating its effect to other creatures than it, or upping its mana cost by 1 or 2 mana or any combination would produce a more balanced version. Jor Kadeen does give +3/0 instead of +2/+2 but at a static cost of needing metalcraft, maybe even +2/0 would be fair since its rare to give a +2/+2 bonus across all your creatures is rarely on a creature or even on any card, Dictate of Heliod being the most recent, and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite for examples.
Thanks for reading and I hope I wasn't being too harsh, only what I would do with the cards.
A few things I don't quite like about the mechanic, though flavor wise, it could be pretty cool.
Purge - the name sounds close to dealing with exile, and because of Celestial Purge, draws my mind right to it. Exile wouldn't be the best way to use this ability since most exile requires mana, and magic is the thing you're trying to avoid. I would try words such as Confine, Restrain, or Impede.
Using Detain isn't a bad idea, it's even possible to upgrade it in this case to not only last a turn. My best best suggestion would be to use some type of counters that track the state of an object affected. I was thinking of a pithing needle and Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer type of card, but detain is already pretty close to that, but the implementation of counters strengthens that effect.
When ~ enters the battlefield, put a restrain counter on target nonland permanent. (Permanents with restrain counters on them can't attack or block and their abilities can't be activated)
Without including a clause when to remove the counters, it could easily be too strong. It's also in the realm of possibilities to put a clause that ignores that effect for a few mana but then that over complicates the ability. Instead of making them unable to attack or block though, the -1/-0 seems the fairest drawback if the counters don't leave and the counters still continue to impede the creature's ability to use it's abilities. You can also put a clause into the ability that makes it so a player can't stack multiple -1/-0 counters on a creature that always has one, but I could go either way on that.
Edit: I forgot you were using a church for design, I suppose you could use the term Convert as to convert other permanents to the church's antimagic philosophy.
Two things happened at FNM last week that I can't seem to find a clarification on.
Two players split at the beginning of the a round, one of them left to get food. The round finished up 10 minutes early and the player who had left had not yet returned. 10 minutes into the new round, the missing player's opponent requested that the player be issued a game 1 loss. The player showed up right after that
I have been looking and looking and can't seem to find a definitive answer as to when a round ends early and what should happen. I see people constantly saying that 5 minutes late is a game loss, and then 10 minutes is a match loss. I've also seen 3 minutes for a game loss, or no game loss and 10 minutes for a match loss. What I read said that it should be treated casually for being FNM and under the Regular REL with no IPG to enforce times and warnings.
I personally feel that if somebody goes to get food, and the round starts early, at a small FNM anyway, that they shouldn't be penalized for it. Especially since the 3 previous rounds ALL went to time, and it just so happened that this round ended 10 minutes early. The player got back to the store at what should have been the appropriate time.
The other issue is that for the player that was there waiting had side boarded by the time his opponent showed up, however, being a newer player, I HIGHLY doubt the siding of some cards were without assistance, and in this case, I want to have a clarification as to what outside interference is for this type of thing. If a round starts, and a player's opponent hasn't shown up yet and already decides to argue against them getting a game loss, is asking friends for side board advice at this time, cheating? I see it as such, regardless if your opponent is sitting across from you or not.
I was reading an article somewhere recently about putting Boon Satyr on the stack as a creature first, and then choosing to bestow it later in the steps of casting a spell. After that point, Essence scatter can't be used to counter a creature that has been cast for its bestow cost, despite being put on the stack first as a creature. My only question is, at what point does a creature with bestow become an aura, is it when you look in its alternate cost method thus changing its types, or is it when it has been fully cast and priority is received?
I ask for this clarification because of the card Ancient Ziggurat. Despite its ruling that its mana can be used to cast alternate costs on creatures such as evoke, creatures with evoke do not change their type on the stack, so I'm curious if that ruling is now incorrect.
Can you cast a creature for its bestow cost by using mana from ancient ziggurat?
I like the idea overall but I have to agree, it seems like a lot for a land to do. It feels more like an enchantment with an activation cost to put counters on things, and then adding more during the upkeep with the trigger seems fine. I don't know the flavor of your set, but I also feel like the bonuses make it feel more WB or BG. I guess based on a simic idea and green giving power bonuses and blue giving decreases, it's fine. It just doesn't feel mono U is all.
The activation to put a counter on seems too cheap, just tapping the land AND getting mana for it. It could be bad when you have the only creature in play and you need the mana, but outside of that, it should cost mana to activate. I'm not sure something so wordy needs a mana ability.
I like the last two card ideas. I feel Yin/Yang should be named Over/Under or Above/Below. Also the -3s could be pushed higher to kill more things, maybe in Dismember range, of course the cost should be adjusted as well.
I would word the damage sphinxs as
At the beginning of your upkeep, each player reveals a card at random from his or her hand. For each player who revealed a card this way, ~ deals X damage to the player or players who revealed the lowest converted mana cost among cards where X is that card's converted mana cost.
I tried shortening it but it didn't really work the way I intended based on only hitting players who reveal and needed to do X damage and defining X.
I like it at random more, you could even have the sphinx deal the revealed card's cost back at the player or an opponent of the player. Even a set value of 3 damage would be okay, like losing a clash from hand type of thing.
@sao123
I'm liking the second list, however, I feel it needs more temple targets. Even if you get it online in the first few turns, not being able to drop a creature kills the aggressiveness of the combo going off. Late game mana can help play the stuff out so that helps in the second win con. I feel it needs to be a better split between temple going off early, and late game stablization if not.
I would aim for a 3/3 split on the sphinxes. I feel the deck wants a lot of mana later for a Stormtide so SoJi shouldn't be too hard to drop right before.
drop chalice to 3, take out the 2 seastalkers for 3 Trinket Mages so you get an increase in creatures for a chalice and can still fetch it.
-4 spreading seas and an oracle or two for some more temple targets. Some number of Wrexials, Harbour Serpent and maybe Lorthos. Wrexial has the islandwalk, and so does the Serpent, though 5 toughness may be a little weak. Lorthos makes for a late game mass sleep, provides a good blocker early on, but stands still with Stormtide out.
Edit: Forgot to mention to add black to the manabase to actually hardcast Wrexial late game.
It has to be a changeling. Clone and other varients can shapeshift into other creatures, it doesn't make them ALL types though. It would work better if more Islandwalk things were in the deck, and less legendary creatures, but Idealy you wouldn't want to be cast the gargantuan anyway.
I don't have the Jaces, but I could see it easily replacing either steady progress or the adepts. People have suggested them before and I was trying to minimize the noncreature spells, however, Jace could possibly be a second win con and can either unsummon or help get a last counter for a turn so that works.
There's the list I threw together last night. I had 3 Lorthos, but I usually had Stormtide and Wrexial out and Lorthos just sits there. Aside from not including Hatchling for the temple, I'd rather have other early non temple stall creatures like necropede and the myr. Adept works with an owl or against your opponent. I figure Turn Aside or other counters could be sided in, though it's not as consistant as WW Quest, nor does the deck really have a backup plan like WW does.
Turn one - Temple
Turn two - A creature, or thrummingbird. Temple gets a counter or not, it all depends.
Turn three - You could double proliferate or just one instance of it and two creature reveals let you start dropping them at the end of your turn three.
I think if you don't play the quest in the first 3 turns, finding it will be too late and you may not recover, so it's really just hit or miss.
Land
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice a land, then sacrifice ~ if you control no basic land – X and search your library for two basic land with x subtype, put them onto the battlefield tapped.
~ enters the battlefield tapped
T: add XX to your mana pool
Turn one, play this, sacrifice it to the first clause.
Turn two, play this with a basic, sac the basic and then have to sac this land. It works the same for nonbasics on turn two as well. Get two basics.
Turn three, play this, sac a land, keep a basic, get this land, with a two mana ability that ETB tapped.
To slow and balance it out, the first rule had to become a little wordy, maybe too clunky. I think of this land as one of the new duals from Scars that ETBT if you have three lands or more, seeing as how it will only be stable on turn 3 or so, it may be workable.
Boo on this being a rare, take off the lifegain and make it an uncommon. I thought the ENTIRE reason for making 2 set blocks was to alleviate all the bad worthless rares that were "too hard to fill sets with" and give us better quality and valuable cards, yet we keep seeing more and more of this so far...
Szadek 2UUBB
Legendary Creature - Vampire
Flying
Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or a card is put into an opponent’s graveyard from his or her hand or library, you may cast an instant or sorcery card from your graveyard. If that card would be put into a graveyard this turn, exile it instead.
5/5
I like the cost. While I agree that the etb ability doesn't seem super beneficial because of how much he initially costs, remember that not all titans were symmetrical in design, Frost titan and Inferno titan being the odd ones compared to the rest. maybe putting an ability that says Pay N: Target player puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard. The cost could be like 2 or 3 mana and synergizes with the second part of his ability. A note on that as well, I think the wording of "whever a card..." might actually trigger multiple times for each card put there that way, and giving multiple spells flashback seems a bit too powerful despite still needing mana to cast them. A thoughtseize becomes super powerful, and then being able to flash it back and get another spell seems too good. maybe taking away the etb ability, giving it a paid mill ability and "whenever a card is put into an opponent's graveyard from his or her hand or library, you may pay N. If you do, target instant or sorcery in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn." I'm not entirely sure how to only trigger this once per turn since most once per turn abilities are activated. Maybe put some clause that says "for the first card put into a graveyard..." so it only triggers once or something. If it still triggers multiple times, paying an additional cost can help balance that maybe.
Mat'Selesnya 4GGWW
Legendary Creature - Dryad Elemental
Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or a creature enters the battlefield under your control, creatures you control gain indestructible until end of turn.
8/8
I really like this card. Flash creatures, though seldom, or even instant token effects, seem really cool with this. while it seems too strong, Avacyn, angel of hope was an unconditional indestructible, at 8 mana for an 8/8. It also had vigilance and flying, which I don't really find reasonable for such a powerful card but whatever. This doesn't step on her toes, so maybe adding a non-trample ability but still easily blockable would probably be fair.
<Orzhov Parun> WWBB
Legendary Creature - Human Cleric
Lifelink
Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or you gain life, put a 2/2 white and black Thrull creature token with lifelink onto the battlefield.
3/5
At first I thought this effect was too good since you could use multiple lifegain instances to create a lot of tokens, and multiple triggers of extort grow an army, but grave titan did enter and attack with 2 2/2's so maybe it's okay as is. Maybe 1/1s would be better, and they also reference Teysa, Orzhov Scion in her way of creating 1/1 spirits so maybe that's flavor to consider I guess.
Svogthir 1BBGG
Legendary Creature - Human Shaman
Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or a creature dies, you may put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control.
4/4
A +1/+1 counter on all your creatures upon entering seems rather strong. Even for a creature drying, I don't play any sort of combo in any format, but I feel like that could be easily abused. On second thought though, Cathars' Crusade is a card and this is like a reverse to it. still though, a creature entering might be hard to pull off multiple instances of than a creature constantly dying. I feel like Marath, will of the Wild's X can't be 0 errata was to stop Crusade and constant dies triggers. Also, I think it should be at least regulated to all other creatures you control and not the legend itself, I think that's fairer at least
Razia 1RRWW
Legendary Creature - Angel
Flying, vigilance
Whenever ~ enters the battlefield or attacks, creatures you control get +2/+2 until end of turn.
5/4
I'm fond of anthem legends or creatures, Jor Kadeen, the prevailer being my favorite, this is very close to that. it's +2/+2 could nearly just be a static effect except for the multiple attacks red gets, and the blink white gets, so I get it. I'm not fond of Legends in commander that are a 3 turn clock, because this can deal 7 damage on attack, I don't quite like it. Making it a 4/4, regulating its effect to other creatures than it, or upping its mana cost by 1 or 2 mana or any combination would produce a more balanced version. Jor Kadeen does give +3/0 instead of +2/+2 but at a static cost of needing metalcraft, maybe even +2/0 would be fair since its rare to give a +2/+2 bonus across all your creatures is rarely on a creature or even on any card, Dictate of Heliod being the most recent, and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite for examples.
Thanks for reading and I hope I wasn't being too harsh, only what I would do with the cards.
Purge - the name sounds close to dealing with exile, and because of Celestial Purge, draws my mind right to it. Exile wouldn't be the best way to use this ability since most exile requires mana, and magic is the thing you're trying to avoid. I would try words such as Confine, Restrain, or Impede.
Using Detain isn't a bad idea, it's even possible to upgrade it in this case to not only last a turn. My best best suggestion would be to use some type of counters that track the state of an object affected. I was thinking of a pithing needle and Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer type of card, but detain is already pretty close to that, but the implementation of counters strengthens that effect.
When ~ enters the battlefield, put a restrain counter on target nonland permanent. (Permanents with restrain counters on them can't attack or block and their abilities can't be activated)
Without including a clause when to remove the counters, it could easily be too strong. It's also in the realm of possibilities to put a clause that ignores that effect for a few mana but then that over complicates the ability. Instead of making them unable to attack or block though, the -1/-0 seems the fairest drawback if the counters don't leave and the counters still continue to impede the creature's ability to use it's abilities. You can also put a clause into the ability that makes it so a player can't stack multiple -1/-0 counters on a creature that always has one, but I could go either way on that.
Edit: I forgot you were using a church for design, I suppose you could use the term Convert as to convert other permanents to the church's antimagic philosophy.
Two players split at the beginning of the a round, one of them left to get food. The round finished up 10 minutes early and the player who had left had not yet returned. 10 minutes into the new round, the missing player's opponent requested that the player be issued a game 1 loss. The player showed up right after that
I have been looking and looking and can't seem to find a definitive answer as to when a round ends early and what should happen. I see people constantly saying that 5 minutes late is a game loss, and then 10 minutes is a match loss. I've also seen 3 minutes for a game loss, or no game loss and 10 minutes for a match loss. What I read said that it should be treated casually for being FNM and under the Regular REL with no IPG to enforce times and warnings.
I personally feel that if somebody goes to get food, and the round starts early, at a small FNM anyway, that they shouldn't be penalized for it. Especially since the 3 previous rounds ALL went to time, and it just so happened that this round ended 10 minutes early. The player got back to the store at what should have been the appropriate time.
The other issue is that for the player that was there waiting had side boarded by the time his opponent showed up, however, being a newer player, I HIGHLY doubt the siding of some cards were without assistance, and in this case, I want to have a clarification as to what outside interference is for this type of thing. If a round starts, and a player's opponent hasn't shown up yet and already decides to argue against them getting a game loss, is asking friends for side board advice at this time, cheating? I see it as such, regardless if your opponent is sitting across from you or not.
Yeah, I remember reading about the aurelia's fury trick awhile ago, had I seen it recently, I would've understood my case a little better
I ask for this clarification because of the card Ancient Ziggurat. Despite its ruling that its mana can be used to cast alternate costs on creatures such as evoke, creatures with evoke do not change their type on the stack, so I'm curious if that ruling is now incorrect.
Can you cast a creature for its bestow cost by using mana from ancient ziggurat?
The activation to put a counter on seems too cheap, just tapping the land AND getting mana for it. It could be bad when you have the only creature in play and you need the mana, but outside of that, it should cost mana to activate. I'm not sure something so wordy needs a mana ability.
At the beginning of your upkeep, each player reveals a card at random from his or her hand. For each player who revealed a card this way, ~ deals X damage to the player or players who revealed the lowest converted mana cost among cards where X is that card's converted mana cost.
I tried shortening it but it didn't really work the way I intended based on only hitting players who reveal and needed to do X damage and defining X.
I like it at random more, you could even have the sphinx deal the revealed card's cost back at the player or an opponent of the player. Even a set value of 3 damage would be okay, like losing a clash from hand type of thing.
I'm liking the second list, however, I feel it needs more temple targets. Even if you get it online in the first few turns, not being able to drop a creature kills the aggressiveness of the combo going off. Late game mana can help play the stuff out so that helps in the second win con. I feel it needs to be a better split between temple going off early, and late game stablization if not.
I would aim for a 3/3 split on the sphinxes. I feel the deck wants a lot of mana later for a Stormtide so SoJi shouldn't be too hard to drop right before.
drop chalice to 3, take out the 2 seastalkers for 3 Trinket Mages so you get an increase in creatures for a chalice and can still fetch it.
-4 spreading seas and an oracle or two for some more temple targets. Some number of Wrexials, Harbour Serpent and maybe Lorthos. Wrexial has the islandwalk, and so does the Serpent, though 5 toughness may be a little weak. Lorthos makes for a late game mass sleep, provides a good blocker early on, but stands still with Stormtide out.
Edit: Forgot to mention to add black to the manabase to actually hardcast Wrexial late game.
It has to be a changeling. Clone and other varients can shapeshift into other creatures, it doesn't make them ALL types though. It would work better if more Islandwalk things were in the deck, and less legendary creatures, but Idealy you wouldn't want to be cast the gargantuan anyway.
I don't have the Jaces, but I could see it easily replacing either steady progress or the adepts. People have suggested them before and I was trying to minimize the noncreature spells, however, Jace could possibly be a second win con and can either unsummon or help get a last counter for a turn so that works.
4 Stormtide Leviathan
2 Lorthos, The Tide Maker
3 Wrexial, The Risen Deep
1 Harbour Serpent
4 Perilous Myr
4 Necropede
4 AEther Adept
4 Thrummingbird
4 Steady Progress
4 Quest for Ula's Temple
Lands (22)
4 Halimar Depths
4 Scalding Tarn
14 Island
There's the list I threw together last night. I had 3 Lorthos, but I usually had Stormtide and Wrexial out and Lorthos just sits there. Aside from not including Hatchling for the temple, I'd rather have other early non temple stall creatures like necropede and the myr. Adept works with an owl or against your opponent. I figure Turn Aside or other counters could be sided in, though it's not as consistant as WW Quest, nor does the deck really have a backup plan like WW does.
Turn one - Temple
Turn two - A creature, or thrummingbird. Temple gets a counter or not, it all depends.
Turn three - You could double proliferate or just one instance of it and two creature reveals let you start dropping them at the end of your turn three.
I think if you don't play the quest in the first 3 turns, finding it will be too late and you may not recover, so it's really just hit or miss.
Land
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice a land, then sacrifice ~ if you control no basic land – X and search your library for two basic land with x subtype, put them onto the battlefield tapped.
~ enters the battlefield tapped
T: add XX to your mana pool
Turn one, play this, sacrifice it to the first clause.
Turn two, play this with a basic, sac the basic and then have to sac this land. It works the same for nonbasics on turn two as well. Get two basics.
Turn three, play this, sac a land, keep a basic, get this land, with a two mana ability that ETB tapped.
To slow and balance it out, the first rule had to become a little wordy, maybe too clunky. I think of this land as one of the new duals from Scars that ETBT if you have three lands or more, seeing as how it will only be stable on turn 3 or so, it may be workable.