Deck and choices seem fine, although it's not the type of deck I play (personal preference) and there unfortunately aren't any top notch cards (why do I see bomb Elite Scaleguard as P1P1 but not in the deck?) though that is just the luck of the draw (Mantis Rider in my view is not a bomb when blue is a splash like this, though it's still good). I don't know about the Jeskai Ascendancy here on the splash, I probably would not have played it. I agree with Calavera_ on the ride down choice for this aggressive deck, and I like Watcher more than Kirin for this deck, but I like your other picks.
Sorry about the scaleguard thing, I am *pretty* sure the card that shouldn't be in there is the enhanced awareness, and my reasoning for that was if I hit my U source I get my card draw without needing to dig for it. There isn't a way to have your final decklist is there?
And yea, Jeskai ascendancy did actually win me a race, but it was also sitting in my hand a few times, although generally it was because I had other choices I suppose. I think I take another choice from that pack next time in the same situation.
Pack 1 pick 3: Orc Sureshot over Dragon Bell Monk over Goblin Heelcutter (I'malready thinking that we'll end up in Mardu or Azban, so BW cards are 'safer' then R cards, it's less of a commitment to a colour) So you value dragon bell *somewhat* highly? I can see why you take it over heelcutter here based on colors and archetypes of course, but based on everything I've seen it's either a mediocre card or slightly above, and is that worth taking in relation to stronger commons in packs 2 and 3 if I am essentially committing to white as my main color thus using mostly white creatures? Ultimately, I am just asking is dragon bell monk good enough to make a deck consistently if you are primary white? And of course, I am not questioning your knowledge, I just want to hear the reasons, because whenever I look at dragon bell I always say "good card I like it" but in action it seems to trade with smaller creatures too often without a lot of upside.
Pack 1 pick 4: Dragon Bell Monk over Goblin Heelcutter (so if you are already locked into Mardu you have higher quality cards. I am staying more open) Here contextually with either orc or dragon bell as previous pick I would probably do the same
Pack 1 pick 6: Alesha's Vanguard over Hooded Assassin over Dismal Backwater (your red deck is shaping up to be aggressive, and I don't like going 4 colours in such decks) taking a neither? color land seems very wrong here. I've seen places say Vanguard is bad, but I think for my deck it wouldn't have been bad and potentially playable. And hooded assassin, yea, I hope to not play it, but it's even better still.
So after pack 1 you are solidly in RW, and I would be leaning Mardu, since that's a more aggressive wedge.
Pack 2 pick 2: Mantis Rider (ok, clearly shifting over into blue as a splash now)
Pack 2 pick 10: Valley Dasher over Tormenting Voice (if you can have a tokens/aggro theme, this is decent) I went against my instinct here and of any deck dasher fits mine great. I think for a conditional card like this I need to in real time go through an archetype checklist for choosing for or against a card like this. 2 heelcutters and R/W sounds like it equals valley dasher. If I don't take that mantis rider, I definitely take dasher here.
Pack 3 pick 7: Watcher of the Roost over Alabaster Kirin another chain reaction failure
Pack 3 pick 9: Swift Kick over Firehoof Cavalry I figured if I wanted to go super turbo speed I might use these, and they at least weren't conditional like valley dashers, just really bad instead lol
Pack 3 pick 10: Defiant Strike over Act of Treason (cantrips are great) I've always heard mixed things about defiant strike in limited. I suppose in my deck at this point it looks decent considering the ascendancy, aggro, and need for card draw. big mistake
So all in all a pretty solid draft. I cautioned you to stay open in BW, but it turns out your WR cards left you perfectly positioned to go into Jeskai. Well done. Yo drafted a better deck than I think I would have.
Whirlwind Adept is terrible and should be Rush of Battle in your deck. I used to inherently like whirlwind adept, and then found out the card was bad, but I've heard LSV say he likes whirlwind adept alot, and seems to make his decks, so I got sucked back into it again. Also the prowess/ascendancy nonsense. If I had better creature quality this probably would have been cut since my blue splash was annoying me
In match 2 you had problems with not enough mana and not enough fixing. I think that's a function of the draft.
the thing about mantis vs kirin is that it's not just about those 2 cards. if you take the mantis you have to find at least 3 sources of blue mana, which means taking fixing over good playables in your main colors later on. if you're solidly in two colors and your deck has a decent aggro shell, you're almost always better off taking less exciting cards over off-color bombs. especially in this format, since Rx aggro with multiple heelcutters is one of the best decks you can assemble.
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i actually think heelcutter is the only fate reforged card worth building your deck around. there are not a lot of those in this format, especially now that the secret plans deck has bitten the dust. grim contest is always good in bg decks, so you don't have to draft bad cards like rotting mastodon at all, but you might want to pick archer's parapet earlier than usual. harsh sustenance prefers you to have some token generators, but it's decent without them too.
Thanks, see, breaking down the actual draft logistics about that card make it seem very obvious not to take mantis rider there. Realizing I had to essentially, if my manabase actually worked out, having to sacrifice 2-3 early picks for lands over playables makes all too much sense, and I'd never trade 3 early land picks over 1 power and haste ever again.
In my most recent draft a couple of nights ago I had 3 Grim Contests so I prioritized drafting Archer's Parapet higher than I would normally (it is a card I somewhat like to have anyway), but I didn't go too far with that and I even ended up playing Alpine Grizzly over Rotting Mastodon because I already had enough ground defense.
I am a proponent of making some modifications of draft strategies around early picks as long as they are picks which will make the deck and as long as I am not playing any sub-standard cards just on the off chance that I have a specific card already in play or in my hand.
Cool thanks, although I do want to mention that my mastodon reference was mostly because it is a very obvious big toughness creature, to make the example clear. I wouldn't start taking mastodons p2p1 or anything haha... but, this makes me really wish I could see some sort of all comprehensive ranking of all cards in the format, pitting khans and fate cards in the same rank, just to see where power levels lie. I tried looking into it on my own, using the Ugin's construct rankings in the CFB fate reforged draft order to cross reference with khans, but didn't really have much luck. You can see what cards are above and below an arbitrary benchmark in ugin's construct in CFB's color rankings for fate reforged, and it would be interesting to see where certain cards like parapet or a mastodon appear now.
Ok thanks... its funny because knowing that about the heelcutters would have made a lot of those picks easier. I probably still would have taken ghostfire blade incorrectly if I was two colors, but my natural inclination was to take the kirin over the mantis, ride down over arrow storm, and leaping master over bivouac, but the whole 3 color thing had me thinking about that. I've just had bad experiences with ride down, but that was awhile ago and during the draft I could tell that this was a "ride down type of deck." The leaping master over bivouac was pretty easy for me too but I was still thinking about the U.
Watcher of the roost would have been easier if kirin wasn't skipped for mantis rider.
I do have a question about ghostfire blade then. Where is that properly rated right this second? I can totally see how it becomes average if you have less than a good amount of face downs, so whats the threshold on that? I'm assuming in fast decks it's better than slow decks right? for P1p1 Khans the frank list has it top 5-6 in top rares, so because of being colorless I figured it still stays strong even contextually later and in fkk, but never really heard anything official about it. I also in the end didn't have very many face down creatures, making it yea in hindsight look pretty bad, but going into the khans packs I guess I wasn't sure how it would play out.
Also, the p1p1 frank list that I mentioned for Rider over Kirin, I "did" weigh that the p1p1 list was obsolete in ways at that point, but my contextual logic was that mantis rider was still better and explosive enough of a card that it was still worth it, which was still incorrect, lol. I'll know in this situation not to take rider over kirin next time, since I really didn't want to but felt like I had to there. But I do have a few follow up questions. So, you say when you get a couple heelcutters you try to stay 2 colors. This is amazing advice, because it's something only if you have a deeper knowledge of the game and cards that you could inherently know just as a rule of thumb. Sure, I look at heelcutter and want to stay red, but I wouldn't say I definitely know to stay 2 color because of projecting how the deck ends up.
So, if there are any big ones, what are other p1 (aka Fate) draft scenarios that lead to obvious decisions of that ilk. For example, if you have 3x grim contests, are you taking rotting mastodons higher in khans? So, this is pretty much referring to when you have a bunch of good commons or uncommons that make an obvious point for the rest of the draft, just like you said about heelcutters. Does 2x pyrotechnics make you want a different type of deck than if you had 1x pyrotechnics and 1 arcbond? I guess a further way to clarify this is, what commons/uncommons point you to obvious archetypes?
Of this ilk, I would "guess" harsh sustenence makes you want to be early game creature heavy, probably b/w warriors, and hoping you end up with ponyback brigades, but do I say that with confidence? Not really since I don't have much experience in anything other than khans limited. Thanks for any and all help.
So, thus far my first draft cap has helped me a ton, I figure it can't hurt to put another one down. Don't worry, I won't spam the board with my drafts but this is new and is helping alot, so thanks lol...
This draft is my very next draft after the other current thread. I honestly was going to post this one no matter what because it had many unique circumstances in the draft, but it was another successful (and lucky) set of games getting a 3-0 in the swiss so that puts me on a bit of a hot streak lol. This deck seems a bit weak and won game 2 of match 3 through disconnect so still don't really feel all that great about it (I did win game 1 of match 3 however). Nonetheless, here we are:
Pack 1 pick 1:
Jeskai Sage
Hooded Assassin
Pressure Point
Aven Skirmisher
Lotus Path Djinn
Douse in Gloom
Archers of Qarsi
Fierce Invocation
Feral Krushok
Great-Horn Krushok
Mindscour Dragon
--> Elite Scaleguard - well, this was an easy pick and tried to look for signals it would send. Gloom, Djinn, and Sage are next cards to take I assume
Dragonrage
Rally the Ancestors
Rugged Highlands
Pack 1 pick 2:
Rakshasa's Disdain
Gurmag Angler
Abzan Advantage
Will of the Naga
Sultai Runemark
Abzan Runemark
Map the Wastes
Collateral Damage
Formless Nurturing
--> Sandsteppe Outcast - easy pick since it meshes so well with scaleguard. Seems like another weak pack without too much to commit to after my card. Double U naga, collateral damage?
Sudden Reclamation
Neutralizing Blast
Friendly Fire
Scoured Barrens
Pack 1 pick 3:
Ethereal Ambush
Dragon Bell Monk
Enhanced Awareness
Gurmag Angler
--> Goblin Heelcutter - here was my first tough decision of the draft, after my last draft being easier in that regard. Sureshot might be a bomb but it's greatness can be conditional and my deck seemed more aggressive with multiple tap/block effects already. I also said I'd rather be red than black with my fastish picks thus far.
Ambush Krotiq
Gore Swine
Frontier Mastodon
Alesha's Vanguard
Defiant Ogre
Orc Sureshot
Sage's Reverie
Rugged Highlands
Pack 1 pick 4:
Abzan Skycaptain
Enhanced Awareness
Typhoid Rats
Grim Contest
Dragon Bell Monk
Mardu Runemark
Ambush Krotiq
Write into Being
--> Goblin Heelcutter - right now I feel like I'm living the dream since like my last draft with 2 cloudforms I now have two heelcutters. My tap/block abilities are going to be consistent at this point so I feel like my draft strategy is more set up now. Grim Contest, Skycaptain were choices and if I would have taken the Sureshot last turn it would have made this pack even tougher. (heelcutter/mardu or contest/abzan)
Frost Walker
Grave Strength
Tranquil Cove
Pack 1 pick 5:
Pressure Point
Whisk Away
Sultai Emissary
Jeskai Runemark
--> Sandblast - well, I was picking between channel harm and this, and I erred on the side of lower curve, which ended up being in hindsight a good decision in play. Harm has won/saved games however, but I still pick this easy.
Temur Runemark
Mardu Scout
Feral Krushok
Dark Deal
Abzan Kin-Guard
Channel Harm
Pack 1 pick 6:
Abzan Advantage
Refocus
Hooded Assassin
Great-Horn Krushok
Frontier Mastodon
Defiant Ogre
Ainok Guide
Alesha's Vanguard
Break Through the Line
--> Dismal Backwater - somewhat tough decision. I figure I won't play any of these cards ideally, so took the land even though it's a longshot itself. The vanguard was my other choice but I never saw myself going out of my way for splashing a vanguard. Considered ainok guide which if I would have taken it might have ended up changing the whole draft, given some of my later decisions...
Pack 1 pick 7:
Refocus
--> Soul Summons - I look at write into being because I would consider jeskai colors, but stuck with consistency instead for now since I really did have nice red and white cards I figured I'd want to stay R/W/x
Will of the Naga
Ancestral Vengeance
Cunning Strike
Defiant Ogre
Temur Runemark
Write into Being
Goblin Boom Keg
Pack 1 pick 8:
Jeskai Sage
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Archers of Qarsi
--> Smoldering Efreet - well after skipping U the last time, an even earlier game blue card seemed wrong.
Return to the Earth
Great-Horn Krushok
Abzan Kin-Guard
Pack 1 pick 9:
Jeskai Sage
Aven Skirmisher
Archers of Qarsi
Great-Horn Krushok
Dragonrage
Rally the Ancestors
--> Rugged Highlands - another pack without great playables other than that pesky early U sage which is looking nice for someone's early U game. Really want to take it but would feel that now the potential G splash for a... loxodon perhaps was best. lol...
Pack 1 pick 10:
--> Rakshasa's Disdain
Abzan Advantage
Will of the Naga
Sultai Runemark
Neutralizing Blast
Friendly Fire
Pack 1 pick 11:
--> Enhanced Awareness - just making note that this makes me prefer ending up jeskai than mardu since it can help late game in my given situation
Ambush Krotiq
Alesha's Vanguard
Defiant Ogre
Sage's Reverie
Pack 2 pick 1:
Bloodfire Expert
Savage Punch
Embodiment of Spring
Mardu Skullhunter
Mardu Hateblade
Leaping Master
Scout the Borders
Bloodfell Caves
Sidisi's Pet
Glacial Stalker
Chief of the Edge
Seeker of the Way
Highspire Mantis
--> Ghostfire Blade - I consider mantis and seeker but obviously this is a great card.
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 2:
Alabaster Kirin
Tormenting Voice
Scoured Barrens
Embodiment of Spring
Unyielding Krumar
Smite the Monstrous
Valley Dasher
Scout the Borders
Bitter Revelation
Cancel
Monastery Swiftspear
Waterwhirl
--> Mantis Rider - Ughh... Kirin/Rider/Kirin/Rider/Kirin/Rider till 1 second left. I'm giving up 1 power for a far easier casting cost and no haste... with the ghostblade I really think kirin is the better pick but rankings I looked at have mantis higher in p1p1 situations so figured it's probably still better.
Forest
Pack 2 pick 3:
Awaken the Bear
--> Feat of Resistance - warden seems enticing but I don't have much fixing to start liberally taking U cards. This was my pick anyway probably.
Arrow Storm
Kin-Tree Warden
Swiftwater Cliffs
Disowned Ancestor
Rush of Battle
Bitter Revelation
Singing Bell Strike
Briber's Purse
Warden of the Eye
Despise
Island
Pack 2 pick 4:
Smoke Teller
--> Ainok Bond-Kin - nice early game card, meshes with scaleguard obviously. the U/R land reaaally looks nice though.
Bloodfire Expert
Scoured Barrens
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Archers' Parapet
Swiftwater Cliffs
Cancel
Become Immense
Take Up Arms
Plains
Pack 2 pick 5:
Canyon Lurkers
Dismal Backwater
Sultai Banner
Disowned Ancestor
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm - I looked at canyon lurkers for awhile, but arrow storm just seems to add some reach and I think I need removal too.
Molting Snakeskin
Scaldkin
Dragon Grip
Ride Down
Island
Pack 2 pick 6:
Erase
Tormenting Voice
Sultai Banner
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm - looked at winterflame a ton but again the fixing was too dire for an earlier blue card
Rotting Mastodon
Disdainful Stroke
Winterflame
Heart-Piercer Bow
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 7:
Hooting Mandrills
--> Salt Road Patrol - Another tough one for me. I was really going to take the loxodon until I saw the synergy of patrol with scaleguard. But, Loxodon meshes with Ghostfire blade too. So, in hindsight, I probably change this pick at the time... it ends up looking worse shortly.
Act of Treason
Woolly Loxodon
Singing Bell Strike
Temur Banner
Jungle Hollow
Dragon Grip
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 8:
Shatter
Awaken the Bear
Rotting Mastodon
Singing Bell Strike
Abzan Banner
Temur Charm
--> Take Up Arms
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 9:
Bloodfire Expert
Embodiment of Spring
--> Leaping Master - I'm R/W so leaping master seems better, lower curved and real evasion for stalls and all my combat tricks
Scout the Borders
Bloodfell Caves
Sidisi's Pet
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 10:
--> Tormenting Voice - take this to help with early game manafixing, never drew it however.
Embodiment of Spring
Valley Dasher
Scout the Borders
Cancel
Forest
Pack 2 pick 11:
Kin-Tree Warden
--> Rush of Battle - I almost don't even look at singing bell strikes? I know for this deck it's bad, but whats that card rated nowadays?
Singing Bell Strike
Briber's Purse
Island
Pack 2 pick 12:
--> Bloodfire Expert - really happy I got one
Bloodfire Mentor
Cancel
Plains
Pack 2 pick 13:
--> Siegecraft
Molting Snakeskin
Island
Pack 2 pick 14:
--> Siegecraft
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 15:
--> Mountain
------ KTK ------
Pack 3 pick 1:
Savage Punch
War Behemoth
Swift Kick
Archers' Parapet
--> Tranquil Cove - hard but just more disappointing pick. I really want knuckleblade there, but that just destroys any consistency this deck would have. Glacial stalker I looked at a long time too, but felt like I had to take the fixing because of that mantis.
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Molting Snakeskin
Glacial Stalker
Ruthless Ripper
Jeskai Elder
Icefeather Aven
Savage Knuckleblade
Plains
Pack 3 pick 2:
Defiant Strike
Act of Treason
Dragonscale Boon
Bloodfell Caves
Wetland Sambar
Mardu Skullhunter
Rush of Battle
Leaping Master
Bitter Revelation
Cancel
Kin-Tree Invocation
Warden of the Eye
--> Frontier Bivouac - tough to pick this after passing knuckleblade, but I needed a blue land and warden of the eye is too slow... Leaping master was considered too
Plains
Pack 3 pick 3:
Sagu Archer
Feat of Resistance
Shatter
Awaken the Bear
Sultai Scavenger
Force Away
Dutiful Return
Crippling Chill
Weave Fate
Jeskai Charm
Sultai Soothsayer
--> Wooded Foothills - So, this raredraft is even more interesting. I ended up with some fixing for G all of the sudden so really regret not taking the loxodon over saltroad patrol. I wanted Feat of resistance so bad but figured that card isn't worth a free pack in my deck. And hoped for another loxodon.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 4:
Canyon Lurkers
Longshot Squad
Defiant Strike
Swarm of Bloodflies
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Swiftwater Cliffs
Whirlwind Adept
Mer-Ek Nightblade
Frontier Bivouac
--> Jeskai Ascendancy - I figured I took the mantis, and I actually had a lot of spells including a take up arms that all of the sudden seemed decent, so took it over more lands and removal. Of course this is the pack with all my fixing.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 5:
Erase
Longshot Squad
Sage-Eye Harrier
Krumar Bond-Kin
Crippling Chill
Jeskai Banner
Rite of the Serpent
Jeskai Charm
--> Witness of the Ages - maybe another jeskai spell but seemed to take the blue splash too far, or maybe a splash for longshot squad (maybe given my counter cards and G sources?). I'm not splashing green for a longshot squad only
Retribution of the Ancients
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 7:
Defiant Strike
--> Alabaster Kirin - this was a tough pick for me. Taking this over watcher was hard and probably stupid, but I really liked the vigilance and toughness combo for a deck with ghostfire blade in it. Despite roost being a morph itself. I also saw I was low on 4 drops so figured the curve would be better. Weaponmaster was of course considered and probably the best type of card to splash blue. I wanted the evasion and earlier game instead. Oftentimes you do alot of setting up to get weaponmaster going so didn't want to wait for that.
Krumar Bond-Kin
Rite of the Serpent
Efreet Weaponmaster
Mardu Banner
Watcher of the Roost
Set Adrift
Swamp
Pack 3 pick 8:
--> Summit Prowler
Bloodfire Mentor
Sidisi's Pet
Scaldkin
Mardu Blazebringer
Windstorm
Howl of the Horde
Island
Pack 3 pick 10:
Defiant Strike
--> Act of Treason - is defiant strike a better card for my deck? or is defiant strike even worse than act of treason? I couldn't see myself putting a defiant strike in but maybe the act.
Wetland Sambar
Rush of Battle
Cancel
Plains
Pack 3 pick 11:
Sagu Archer
Shatter
Dutiful Return
--> Weave Fate - went back and forth with this and enhanced awareness all draft.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 12:
Canyon Lurkers
Bloodfire Mentor
--> Whirlwind Adept - wanted this for ascendancy and blade, and got one luckily despite it being a tough card on my manabase.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 13:
--> Jeskai Banner
Retribution of the Ancients
Mountain
As you can see, my manabase was scary. I ran out of time for deckbuilding and was intending on adding an 18th land island and removing the whirlwind adept, but ran out of time and kept it as is. I feel like I have early game again and have late game reach. I considered not using the jeskai ascendancy in mainboard, but I took the chance on it since I had so many non-creature spells. Not sure how I felt about it but will get to that eventually.
Here is the rundown of my matches. My closer matches I get into more detail, mostly as a way to showcase the cards themselves.
Match 1 game 1 - Jeskai - I pretty much roll. Soul summons turn 2 heelcutter turn 3. Kills my first heelcutter but draw second one next turn. They put out fierce invocation (colorless 4/4) but it can't block so they are at 8 I am at 20. I have mantis rider, heelcutter, horde ambusher, and soul summons out they only have manifest 4/4 so they concede.
Match 1 game 2 - I keep a two land hand with leaping master, outcast, heelcutter, sandblast, ascendancy and adept. Hit land drop for turn 3, so am rolling with leaping master and outcast out with it's flyer. I am up 20-16. Opp puts down rageform turn 4 so is tapped out currently. Turn 5, I start missing landdrops here, but can do a few plays. I have sandblast still, ascendancy, heelcutter dash, witness, and now an expert. I might have gotten a bit greedy playing ascendancy here, but wanted to maximize the value of my sandblast and feel a bit ahead so put it out. I now can only ping with flyer. I attack with all creatures turn 6, hoping to bait rageform and to keep my lead with all my gas left, with the sandblast card draw play from jeskai ascendancy. Collateral damage leaves only my 1/1 flyer left, and am facing a 4/4 manifest the turn after. I finally get 4th land, but nothing truly stabilizing to do. I put out heelcutter, and the turn after they put out highspire mantis. A game I thought I had earlier is now looking tough. Thanks to the ascendancy, my feat of resistance reaches highspire mantis toughness in a blowout there. I am at 6 opp is at 7 and I swing for lethal with 2/2 flyer and 3/2 heelcutter with take up arms ascendancy pump.
match 2 game 1 - Sultai deck - In a game of semi stalled boards but occasional trumps, my alabaster kirin + ghostfire blade rules the stalemate and sandbagging arrow storm and sandblast until necessary. Has incremental growth and big creatures like mandrils and rotting mastodons so some of my damage spells are looking weak.
match 2 game 2 - I mulled to 5 and really should have mulled again since it was a 1 land hand and 4 3+drops, but am on the draw and have heelcutter scaleguard and sandblast. They essentially roll but I hit 5 lands by turn 7 so I was slowing the bleed but lost turn 8 with opp at 18 life.
match 2 game 3 - I feel like I have the dream with 1 mountain 1 bivouac and a horde ambusher, heelcutter, sandblast, and mantis rider. draw soul summons turn 1 and heelcutter turn 2. I kept the pressure continuously with dashing heelcutter this whole time so with an ambusher on board the opp only has a morph and is at 5 life (I am at 20). Turn 6 I think I in hindsight make some play mistakes by stepping off the gas since I didn't want to trade creatures since I can't play my white ones yet, and am still 2 lands away from using arrow storm, so am just playing it safe hoping for arrowstorm since opp is at 5 and haven't seen a counterspell yet.
So, turn 6 I finally hit fourth land, but it's an island. Soul summons, bond-kin, sandblast, and mantis rider are all sitting in my hand. Removes heelcutter 1, next turn I draw bloodfire expert so put that out with my ambusher. Fast-forward to turn 10 stuck at 4 lands no plains with a now definite stalled board, my ambusher, expert, and ghostfire blade heelcutter vs their 3 morphs, rotting mastodon, and feral krushok. I have kirin and whirlwind adept in addition to my previous cards listed stuck in my hand. They start attacking with feral krushok 2 turns in a row while I still wait for a land, and take the damage because I want as many creatures as possible when I finally hit 5th land to ensure raid for my arrow storm, since at this point their board is much bigger and still has 4 cards in their hand. So, turn 12 I finally hit my 5th land and my arrow storm doesn't get countered. My board was empty and they'd swing for lethal the following turn otherwise. Huge game.
Match 3 game 1 - Abzan - I start off with great looking hand with all 3 basics covered and scaleguard, summons, and heelcutter. I get early beats in, but board stalls turn 6 when armament corps drops on their board giving them a frontier mastodon 4/3, highland game, armament corps 5/5, and a snake token from my prior bolstered heelcutter. All of the sudden by turn 7 I am at 12 life and opp is at 15, and I have a 3/4 scaleguard, manifest, and salt road patrol out with 1 counter but tapped for outlasting. Their turn they swing with everyone, I feat my scaleguard here to try to kill the 4/3 mastodon, but they awaken the bear it so it survives. I'm at 7 life now since I let the armament corps go through, and they only had 1 forest untapped and not enough delve for become immense. highland game and my manifest trade. I am at 7 life with scaleguard and patrol out. This is also where the video feed goes out on MTGO ...
What happens is, I sandblast their armament corps, so they are down to just a mastodon and snake, and I have arrow storm in hand. They get an abzan guide, while I get a ghostfire blade and witness of the ages. Ultimately, Opp keeps swinging but can't quite get rid of my scaleguard. Ultimately, my opp ends up with the snake token with no hand left at 23 life (thanks to abzan guide) vs. me with scaleguard and ghostfire blade at 6 life. We just keep swinging and I have arrow storm so I win the race eventually. Opp drew some lands here but kept putting them out so I knew they had no plays. I eventually got my mantis rider too so the race accelerated for me.
match 3 game 2 - Opp never chooses to play or draw so they lose from disconnect. While I wonder if they are on tilt after losing a game that looked like they "should" have won, I also could have won turns prior if I hit lands. So, whatever, I doubt the opp quit or something it was most likely a lucky disconnect.
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So, this was quite an interesting draft and a ton to learn from. I feel very fortunate to have gone 3-0 because the lack of consistency in the manabase revealed itself numerous times, but the cards I splashed for all definitely helped me win when I saw them, so it seemed worth it. Also, this draft could have ended up very different if I took ainok guide instead of dismal backwater, since I might have gone on the G or U train for some later fate picks. This could have made white a splash for scaleguard, mantis rider and maybe sandblast or outcast. I saw jeskai sages, write into being, bivouacs, loxodon, savage knuckleblade, many cards that could have fit into a better manabased temur color deck in hindsight. This could have backfired however so staying R/W might have been right in the end. Other specifics, like with jeskai ascendancy, are worth discussing, but I'll wait for now.
Have at it. I have a bunch of questions but I will wait for some responses first.
I don't really have any advice. I just wanted to say i'm impressed with your drafting discipline. I would have screwed that draft up big time. I would have seen that late typhoid rats, forgotten evrything else id seen and probably gone heavier black and screwed the manabase up bad or splashed white instead of black. Kudos
Thank you very much, I appreciate the response. I have a lot more to learn however haha...
Thanks a lot for your help. Just this session helped me a ton. I have some further question about this particular draft, but I am going to put up my next draft shortly so after some final things I will probably leave you alone about this one.
Honestly both questions bleed into my next draftcap but I don't want to assume you reading the next one so I'll ask these questions here.
1. In reference to your at least 3 source 2 card (nonmorph) splash rule, how about when it scales up to 3, 4, and 5 cards whats your source minimum? Once you are 6 that's pretty much a color, and 5 might be a little too convoluted as well, but any further info here would help thanks.
2. In terms of the rare draft there, so non pro type players (like LSV or something) rare draft in 8-4s? Is there a threshold of value to a card in FKK that you wouldn't rare draft once the circumstances sort of swing into taking the better card for your deck and win potential? Good example is, I once took a flooded strand over an archfiend of depravity and it killed me inside but I felt like I had to do it. I went 1-2 so chances are I probably made out better with the strand since that's almost the 2 packs I lost and to assume 3-0ing is a tall order just because of one card.
I suppose if anything further pops up I'll ask again, but I am going to put up another draft in the near future. Thanks again.
#2 about black mana sources. When you say your rule of thumb is 3 source minimum, do you mean for splashing 2 non morph cards?
#5 Yea, based on that my curve looks pretty odd. Here was my logic and I'd like to know what justifications are right/wrong, lol.... I guess I looked at my curve a tiny bit differently in that the cut and the heelcutter both were counted as flexible 4s, as well as monastery flock when I had the morph mana up for either it or dropping another creature down on turn 4. I definitely am top heavy at 5, but I figured most of them were late game plays once I'm running out of gas so I could get away with it more often than in other drafts where I might "need" a removal spell earlier. This deck was usually the aggressor and was getting by with creatures acting as the removal early game, and then using the removals for anything I couldn't trump.
#6 Yea, the bloodfire experts only came to me during tough calls I suppose and I seem to rate them lower than I should. I took the glacial stalker over it once because I'd rather err on blue early game and I like glacial stalker's 5 toughness, and then I took a dual over it which knowing how solid U/R I was maybe I'd change the next time. Murderous cut was huge against archfiend of depravity with the mardu ascendancy out in my 3rd match, so in results thinking I am happy I ended up with the black splash, but I know that's not how things always play out. -- edit -- I looked up where Bloodfire experts are relative to the glacial stalkers on the frank khans list, and he has stalkers at the very bottom of good commons and uncommons whereas experts are in the middle of the mediocre playables list below dual lands. But, in numerous places such as LSV drafts or here etc. I feel like bloodfire experts seem to be held in higher regard now post fate, and they definitely play better in efficient fast red decks when I've had to face them. So, is this a card that got better after Fate or is it a card that was just not properly rated at the time and this is an obsolete list, or is it a card that just select people like more and it's a coincidence I've heard a few mentions in recent days? lol.. And, whatever the case is, what are other cards from Khans that might fall in this category of being better now than before? I know there's that thread floating around but I actually care more about your opinion than me discussing my own in there.
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If this is the premier location for draft education, I have some further questions for you haha. These are more open ended but hearing your answers will help me analyze these same things myself eventually.
What would you grade my deck in terms of power level as is for an FKK deck, and then the grade of it if I had the bivouacs splashing snowhorn and woolly? Rather, would you have been happy if the deck with the bivouacs was yours? I know this deck is skimping on power level in the grand scheme of things by taking delta over Sage Eye, and I'd also like that held against it in that it could have been better theoretically. Are you taking delta over sage eye in an 8-4 or swiss only?
This helps me since I am slowly learning draft grades of individual cards, but the idea of grading the whole deck together based on it's power can be used as reference in all future drafts. It also helps me gauge how powerful the decks I was facing were, for future reference as well. I definitely felt the 3rd match deck had good cards, like ascendancy, archfiend, sandsteppe, ponybacks, and seeker, so felt pretty good to beat it. I felt that my cloudforms were extremely potent, and were much more powerful than other decks I've had since they were early and consistent.
Second, what would you grade the actual draft performance itself then? It seems like my only glaring mistake for this particular draft was missing an extremely easy green splash that would have made nearly no hindrance on consistency for the rest of the deck. Other than that, it seems like in hindsight I made some good choices overall however. So like a B-? And I mean grading my draft against good/great drafters who for a 3-0 in an 8-4 are probably getting an A/A- for. Missing a tri seems like a beginner mistake that makes my draft have a glaring flaw.
Looking back on it, I can see why this would have just been better since my overall card quality skyrockets instead of having fringe playables for the purpose of making my deck faster, and, that really increases the chances of a good creature becoming my cloudform instead of trying to use temur battle rage with it.
Also, taking the bivouac p2p2 makes the chain reaction of future green morphs and bivouacs easy in addition to making my U/R manabase even better than it was. I hear a lot about on color lands being less desirable than off color lands, and I understand why but I think here I took it a bit too literally... I think the other reason why I took arrow storm there was because I had just gotten murderous cut, and because of that, I wanted to avoid the temptation of a 4th color since I didn't know how the rest of the draft would play out. That's also the same reason why tri-lands are amazing though. Also, looking at it, it was one of the very few picks that I didn't confer with the frank pick order to see just how they rate the power level of these 2 cards with each other since I was trying to do that for most of my picks just to help with memorization and stuff. I knew trilands were very high so assumed a good/decent common was lower, but I figured for "my" situation arrow storm was better.
So, a flaw in my logic didn't cost me any matches this time, but there's no doubt the deck improves with your picks. A few questions then.
1. if the bivouac isn't there p2p2 are you still taking the loxodon p2p4 banking on a potential 1 forest splash or was it only because of bivouac?
2. was my 4 swamp splash the right number for cut and throttle?
3. would you bump up to 18 lands if you had snowhorn and loxodon in your deck, or is the curve still low enough with all the 2 drops and morphs?
4. How much removal/combat tricks is the right number in FKK, and where do the card draw spells fit in to figuring out the proportions vs that and creatures? I generally don't use as much card draw as I probably should because I usually worry about bumping out a key spell/creature, and being at 9 spells worried me maindeck and was often boarding out the tormenting voice for the witness if I kept in the dasher for games.
5. I definitely know you give advice in almost all of these threads, but I'm not aware of all your general opinions yet or anything lol... So, I would like to just hear your opinions on the valley dasher and temur battle rage cards in general and what type of support it would take for you to use those cards. Because, in a way they were both sort of just thrown in (other than that my deck was relatively low curved) my deck for the virtue of trying to make it faster for game 1s, and it did kind of work here, and had no qualms boarding either out. But, you still would have drafted the temur battle rage over cunning strike when I did in the draft right?
6. For your pick suggestions, are these literally the only changes you would have made, or is this more to keep the suggestions smaller and more focused. What I mean is, there isn't an earlier P1 pick that you would have done that could have essentially changed the whole draft or anything? I'm only asking this because it helps me know if I am actually judging card quality consistently. Raredrafting polluted delta over sage eye avengers for example given it was a swiss. This may have affected drafting the cut and moreso the throttle afterwards potentially (throttle could have been g/u land, mandrils, etc, especially if I had the bivouac earlier)
edit - 1 more 7. As I said, I pretty much have multiple tabs open during the draft of all sorts of rating lists and help for both general drafting and FKK in particular. Meaning, I have all the frank and CFB lists up, I have the 2 google doc spreadsheets up of khans and fate, and a few other random tabs open when I draft. Other than watching various vids of drafts and stuff online, what are the best of the best sources for improving my knowledge for drafting in general and khans in particular?
Ok so here it is... I've done some drafts but have tried to learn and memorize as much as I could in order to make drafts go smoother recently... I tend to have any sort of rankings from sources up in a tab as I draft for reference as well. I wanted to show this draft because I think it was one of the first times I've had a "good" X/X/x deck in FKK. Usually I'm only 2 color, or a more blended 3 color clan. And, while those decks have worked well I've felt like the overall power level of my 2 color decks were a bit lacking sometimes and manascrew happens alot with clans if you don't have enough fixing so. And, I didn't have any super bombs either really but good ones, so happy with the result.
I definitely during the draft tried to be as aware as possible of signals I was receiving about colors being open. Sometimes I haven't done that in the past and ended up with low level cards which could have been easily avoided. But, I know how much I don't know, so if you notice any points where a signal might have been obvious let me know, even if it didn't affect my pick, just like the theory of it. I'm still trying to get a grasp of what picks are good when and when certain cards rise or fall in value relative to your prexisting picks. So, almost any advice is encouraged, in addition to the basic pick choices.
Pack 1 pick 1:
Sandblast
Jeskai Sage
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Arashin Cleric
Hunt the Weak
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Temur Battle Rage
Reality Shift
Fearsome Awakening
Humble Defector
Sage-Eye Avengers
--> Polluted Delta --- Well, started with a raredraft. Would have clearly taken Sage Eye otherwise... some decent cards in the pack though.
Pack 1 pick 2:
Abzan Skycaptain
Enhanced Awareness
Typhoid Rats
Grim Contest
Dragon Bell Monk
Rakshasa's Disdain
Return to the Earth
Great-Horn Krushok
--> Goblin Heelcutter -- the more I go against heelcutter and the more I use it the more I realize how good the card is. Isn't it essentially elite scaleguard - bolsterx2 + dash at common?
Fruit of the First Tree
Sudden Reclamation
Honor's Reward
Friendly Fire
Thornwood Falls
Pack 1 pick 3:
Pressure Point
Whisk Away
Sultai Emissary
Jeskai Runemark
Bathe in Dragonfire
Map the Wastes
Lightning Shrieker
Ainok Guide
Sandsteppe Outcast
Smoldering Efreet
--> Cloudform -- I had the delta, and I've had a recent draft where I teetered on going grixis, and I regretted not doing so the last time. It was essentially an easy pick but Outcast and Dragonfire were thought about
Merciless Executioner
Wind-Scarred Crag
Pack 1 pick 4:
Ancestral Vengeance
War Flare
Soul Summons
Sultai Skullkeeper
Reach of Shadows
Whisperer of the Wilds
Collateral Damage
Temur Runemark
Write into Being
Battlefront Krushok
--> Cloudform -- well, this one was even easier since now I would have "consistent" hexproof flyers.
Lotus-Eye Mystics
Pack 1 pick 5:
Pressure Point
Whisk Away
Jeskai Runemark
--> Bathe in Dragonfire -- back to red... figured I was definitely U/R and a given splash, hopefully b for delta.
Map the Wastes
Lightning Shrieker
Ainok Guide
Smoldering Efreet
Fascination
Friendly Fire
Tranquil Cove
Pack 1 pick 6:
Jeskai Sage
--> Cunning Strike - took this over rageform for 2 reasons, 1 - double R with 2 double U at 3 cmc. 2 - all rankings have this ahead of it (so therefore this was why anyways lol)
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Cached Defenses
Rageform
Lotus-Eye Mystics
Dismal Backwater
Pack 1 pick 7:
Jeskai Runemark
War Flare
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Ambush Krotiq
--> Write into Being -- this was an example where I might have taken the "bombier" pick in the past in mindscour, but rankings, dialogue and vids have helped in advising to have quality low curved cards over later cards
Winds of Qal Sisma
Mindscour Dragon
Tranquil Cove
Pack 1 pick 8:
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
--> Temur Battle Rage -- between this and cunning... I think cunning is the better overall card, but I knew with cloudforms and potential early game combat potential I'd rather have the low curve combat trick
Pilgrim of the Fires
Pack 1 pick 9:
--> Jeskai Sage -- again, taking low curve over high curve, despite cunning strike being pretty good and wanting it bad. FRF rankings by CFB, sage is 1 card ahead of cunning, while the frank list has it much lower.
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Pack 1 pick 10:
--> Enhanced Awareness
Typhoid Rats
Rakshasa's Disdain
Return to the Earth
Great-Horn Krushok
Sudden Reclamation
Pack 1 pick 11:
Pressure Point
--> Jeskai Runemark
Map the Wastes
Lightning Shrieker
Smoldering Efreet
Pack 1 pick 12:
War Flare
--> Sultai Skullkeeper
Collateral Damage
Temur Runemark
Pack 1 pick 13:
--> Smoldering Efreet
Fascination
Friendly Fire
Pack 2 pick 1:
Smoke Teller
Ainok Bond-Kin
Bloodfire Expert
Tranquil Cove
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Arrow Storm
Taigam's Scheming
Dutiful Return
Dazzling Ramparts
--> Murderous Cut -- well, this is about the best way for my delta to get used, thought about ascendancy.
Sultai Soothsayer
Jeskai Ascendancy
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 2:
Frontier Bivouac
Feed the Clan
Jeskai Student
Sultai Banner
Disowned Ancestor
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm - thought about bivouac for potential splash and u/r fixing, but took this since that's assuming alot to give up 4/5 damage
Dragonscale Boon
Rakshasa's Secret
Monastery Flock
Pine Walker
Mardu Charm
Abzan Ascendancy
Forest
Pack 2 pick 3:
Canyon Lurkers
Longshot Squad
Sultai Banner
Disowned Ancestor
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm -- wanted scion of glaciers and still second guess it, but I figured I'd take consistent damage to go along with heelcutter and cloudforms
Dragonscale Boon
Monastery Flock
Bitter Revelation
Scion of Glaciers
Chief of the Scale
Mardu Roughrider
Island
Pack 2 pick 4:
Woolly Loxodon
Salt Road Patrol
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Archers' Parapet
Embodiment of Spring
Cancel
Krumar Bond-Kin
Briber's Purse
Become Immense
--> Witness of the Ages -- relatively simple pick over mentor... I really like this card as it's sort of like glue, but it never seems to be very profitable
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 5:
Sage-Eye Harrier
Trumpet Blast
Hooting Mandrills
Alabaster Kirin
Sidisi's Pet
--> Throttle -- easy pick solidifying the black splash
Thornwood Falls
Ponyback Brigade
Jeskai Banner
Heart-Piercer Bow
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 7:
Defiant Strike
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Molting Snakeskin
Taigam's Scheming
--> Sandsteppe Citadel -- essentially hatedrafted this but there for random splash potential
Kheru Bloodsucker
Island
Pack 2 pick 8:
Act of Treason
Tusked Colossodon
--> Wetland Sambar -- I took this over master because cloudforms were going to require early blue. But, I wonder about the tradeoff for the jeskai runemark activation potential if I used it in matchups.
Rush of Battle
Leaping Master
Archers' Parapet
Rakshasa's Secret
Forest
Pack 3 pick 1:
War Behemoth
Swift Kick
Awaken the Bear
Feat of Resistance
Shambling Attendants
--> Mystic of the Hidden Way -- Throttle, Sage, and Snowhorn were considered. I was still light on creatures and with the runemark and double strike I figured this was better than stretching manabase further.
Wind-Scarred Crag
Snowhorn Rider
Throttle
Blossoming Sands
Goblinslide
Brave the Sands
Tuskguard Captain
Sage of the Inward Eye
Forest
Pack 3 pick 2:
Barrage of Boulders
Savage Punch
Embodiment of Spring
Unyielding Krumar
Smite the Monstrous
Valley Dasher
Scout the Borders
--> Dismal Backwater -- easy pick to me to solidify black and definitely paid off in results but the scavenger was tempting. Given my creature count, was this right though?
Scaldkin
Sultai Scavenger
Cranial Archive
Armament Corps
Frontier Bivouac
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 3:
Naturalize
War Behemoth
Bloodfire Expert
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Archers' Parapet
--> Swiftwater Cliffs -- considered the bloodfire expert, and looked at bloodflies, but reaaaaally wanted to keep the splash small and efficient
Embodiment of Spring
Taigam's Scheming
Debilitating Injury
Swarm of Bloodflies
Incremental Growth
Forest
Pack 3 pick 4:
Erase
Tormenting Voice
Longshot Squad
Sage-Eye Harrier
--> Glacial Stalker -- I've yet to use a treasure cruise in my recent improved swiss performances, so I really wanted to take it here, but glacial stalker seems more important and wanted more creatures
Rugged Highlands
Abomination of Gudul
Temur Banner
Treasure Cruise
Roar of Challenge
Armament Corps
Island
Pack 3 pick 5:
Ainok Bond-Kin
Mardu Skullhunter
Mardu Hateblade
Leaping Master
Scout the Borders
--> Jeskai Windscout - this was an easy pick
Whirlwind Adept
Rotting Mastodon
Mardu Blazebringer
Set Adrift
Forest
Pack 3 pick 6:
Act of Treason
Tusked Colossodon
Kin-Tree Warden
--> Swiftwater Cliffs - another easy pick and feeling about 100% about the manabase
Tusked Colossodon
Bloodfire Mentor
Rotting Mastodon
Singing Bell Strike
Seek the Horizon
Plains
Pack 3 pick 7:
Tormenting Voice
Longshot Squad
Sage-Eye Harrier
--> Disdainful Stroke - wished I had some white for the weaponmaster but took sideboard card instead
Sidisi's Pet
Abzan Banner
Efreet Weaponmaster
Windstorm
Swamp
Pack 3 pick 9:
War Behemoth
Swift Kick
Awaken the Bear
Shambling Attendants
--> Snowhorn Rider - maybe goblinside for a random sideboard but nah hatedrafting this seemed better lol.
Goblinslide
Forest
Pack 3 pick 10:
Embodiment of Spring
--> Valley Dasher -- wanted one and luckily got it late. Bivouac is coming around really late. Made me consider because of snowhorn but thought that was getting too cute at this point of the draft.
Scout the Borders
Cranial Archive
Frontier Bivouac
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 11:
Naturalize
Archers' Parapet
Embodiment of Spring
--> Taigam's Scheming
Forest
Pack 3 pick 12:
--> Tormenting Voice
Abomination of Gudul
Temur Banner
Island
So, I really had my deck built to be fast for game 1s by having the valley dasher in and a creature like witness on the board. I find that it's easier to punish slow decks in FKK if you build your deck properly and this was one of the few times with the cloudforms and heelcutter that dasher would be nice to test my opponent's speed.
Annoyingly, mtgo didn't save the vids of this draft so I don't remember much about the games.
Match 1 was against a sultai deck which I won game 1, they won game 2, and dropped after a long time being idle game 3.
Match 2 and 3 were both against mardu decks. Match 2 I went 2-0 I think, opponent mentioned after game 1 not having an answer for cloudform and in the 2nd game I had 1 starting hand and drew the other on turn 2/3.
Match 3: This deck had an archfiend of depravity but took that out with a timely murderous cut from a dead jeskai sage in game 1 and eventually won after that. Opp had good early white creatures, hateblade, seeker, outcast, and skycaptain all making their appearance game 1 as well, so had my guard up this match. Game 2 I lost to a stalled board where eventually a mardu ascendancy took over and lost to a rush of battle alpha strike. Game 3 I won with a cloudform/runemark and a heelcutter leading the way, and doing the final 7 damage in an alpha strike, with an arrow storm and cunning strike in hand.
Never drew my mystic of the hidden way, temur battle rage alpha struck in match 1, cunning strike was good, certain matchups I'd side out throttle for bitter revelation, and I'd side out valley dasher for witness of the ages if they didn't seem profitable. Tormenting voice also went in and out, but never drew it either. Write into being was good, and monastery flock came in handy a bunch of times.
exactly... I definitely miss-played it in my only opportunity to use it, but it was an aggressive deck and game 3 so I used it against a hordeling outburst probably a bit too early. But, in that same game, a brutal hordechief and mardu ascendancy came down so maybe in hindsight it was my only shot anyway.
In a good situation, arcbond is like a duneblast, in the best situation, its a one sided wrath, in a bad situation, you probably 2+/1 yourself but get rid of a bigger threat with a block and maybe a few more small things on the side, and it can be a dead card sometimes.
I think bottom line is it's a more skill intensive card which makes a player like myself feel a little more at ease just taking a dumber card like Heelcutter which is close overall probably. But, in reality, it's probably not that skill intensive since the situations where you see it's profitable are pretty apparent when they pop up.
it looks like between the two lists, arcbond has by far the largest differential of positioning of any card. CFB has it in tier two of all cards, the Frank list has it in decent playables under the dual lands p1p1, and Gore Swine and Vaultbreaker within it's colors and tier.
I had a p1p1 decision today of Heelcutter and Arcbond, and I chose the arcbond. Based on results, it's hard to say, I only saw it once, which I did get to use against some tokens on a morph creature, but it wasn't enough to win the game. It didn't synergize all that great with my deck, since the best creatures available were mostly low mana green creatures like highland game, alpine grizzlies, etc., but the top of the curve had 3 snowhorn riders and a pine walker as large damage soakers in theory. I 2-1ed and was a 10 damage swiftspear away from a cunning strike and/or 2 attacking creature board from attacking with the opp at 3 life left from 3-0ing, so, it's possible the heelcutter could have helped win that match since I was a bit too slow for that explosive damage potential. Then again, red was my splash color so arcbond actually fit the manabase better in the end since it's a slower card. But, yea... I can see why arcbond has such a variance of opinion overall.
It seems to me like monastery swiftspear got better, at least a little. It was pretty bad in KTK just being too small but now with some additional cards making smaller curved decks with cards like mardu scout, heelcutter, warflare and temur battle rage etc much more consistent and reliable than in KTK. Therefore, I'm not always happy to see a swiftspear anymore since some cards can really synergize with it = probably a better deck overall than you would have assumed in KTK.
Ok it's my turn to enter this thread... after doing a decent amount of drafting I'm really starting to get to the point where I can make either the start of a "real" standard deck or make a full competitive deck easily such as U/W heroic. So here's my situation.
In an ideal world, I want to make UW heroic anyway. I'm new to mtgo, but grew up on revised/4th/forgotton empires/chronicles/ice age/homelands and then had another standard foray during shards->scars of mirrodin, so I've always been a fan of WW type decks, and heroic is about as close to WW in competitive that I could imagine. I enjoy the theme of the deck very much, and I'm happy it's competitive... I just wonder how competitive in the current meta and going forward obviously. Now, pretty much other than cheaper rares and commons, I need the 4 hero of iroas and 4 temples and that's it. My next question would be about how relevant mana confluence is since I've seen some more recent decks remove them but that might just be because of eventual rotation and it's a pseudo budget deck anyway. But a card like Brimaz I also wonder about, since, just like U/W heroic, I like the card a lot and would not mind getting them, but they don't seem to be used in recent iterations anyway, but again it might be a budget element sometimes. Also, because he is used in multiple decks and sees his minor play in other formats I wonder if getting 2 or 3x of them wouldn't be a complete loss after rotation, slightly. So yea, pretty much all those questions I have about U/W heroic, but chances are I am going to make this deck anyway.
Next element, is about the remainder of my cards, or, if it's really just worth it instead of u/w heroic, to invest in a upper tier deck. Ideally, and my cards match it anyway, I prefer Abzan thematically of the top tier decks. I have 4x siege rhino, anafenza and then 3 g/w fetches, 2 sorins, and probably some other cards that go in this deck from drafting khans and fkk. So, I don't have thoughtsieze, probably the largest investment for the deck, but I imagine those cards retain value since they are used so often, so I don't mind having to get them. Next clan of the top tiers I like is mardu, and have some red cards like 2 sarkhans 2 fetches 2 phoenixes that may or may not go in. Ultimately, I know having assets doesn't mean much and it's all interchangeable.
But, ultimately I guess I just want to hear what anyone thinks about the top tier of decks and then where a handful of budget 1.5 decks slide into the grand scheme of things and then the usual projecting based on any info at hand. I know right this millisecond there's some dual color combinations in addition to the clans starting to form so yea just some help with all that, thanks alot!
Haha oops... well I missed that part sorry. I guess now it looks to be obviously alphabetical. That makes many of my arguments about cards within the same tiers null and void, although discussing them was still helpful.
Well, here's where maybe the "meta" could matter... if I am still in the swiss queues maybe decks overall aren't as fast, since they in the long run are probably not built as well than in say 8-4s. Because, I actually feel like many of my matches end up at 8 or more mana, and that's not only counting decks that I am going for a longer game. I find that in parity situations it seems like I'll end up with 11-12 of my lands out easily, especially if I run 18. Especially for a novice like me who most likely has deckbuilding and drafting flaws galore. So, that's why I "know" ugin isn't as good because I'm sure %'s of how good cards are are based on a higher level player than me. I watched my replays, when I had ugin, the only match I lost I didn't see ugin at all, two of the games were parity and ugin uprooted that, and the 3rd game I was behind but killed a 3/3 aven surveyor which led my return back to stabilization since that was the tiebreaker creature getting to swing. So it just "seems" like its raw power is off the charts to the point where it's worth hoping to just reach 8 in a random match and have your win % skyrocket, without too much deck building expertise necessary.
One card, which I see is now close within the tier, that I would not take over ugin for sure is soulfire. I'd take strike leader or infiltrator because they are essentially x for 1's on sticks when you deal with them, but soulfire requires some luck in the draft for it to turn out better than Ugin I feel like. If you get sandblasts and burn then yea the card would be awesome, but by then if you are also doing buybacks, you are almost at 8 mana anyway. And,if you are married to the colors to get value out of the buyback, which for lifelink purposes in khans limited is either R/W with small blue splash since blue instants/sorceries aren't lifelinking so you'd most likely prefer r/w damage spells, or, you end up mardu, which then has harsh sustenance and douse, which is indeed great, but these cards need to get drafted too and could be risky depending on how early of picks they are and how the colors are playing out. So, in a way, I almost find soulfire as a more constricting card than ugin. I know it's 2/2 lifelink on it's own so it's never bad as long as you're running white as color 1/2, but I feel like the odds of "squandering" the potential of those two cards falls in soulfire's favor (or lack thereof) and can be just a better tempoed smoke teller sometimes. I'm sure I will eventually have a match where Ugin had to sit in my hand as I was getting beat down, but in a way, those were the games I was going to lose anyway, until my skill gets better and make better quicker decks where that situation is null and void possibly. In my draft, and I know this is results oriented, but I only ended up with 3 burn spells by the end of the draft and I was indeed seeking them out, harsh, bring low, and collateral damage. I'll admit the whole deck was a nightmare, but the draft went poorly so it was expected. I ended up W/R/b with lackluster burn, expensive removal otherwise like smites and serpents, and weak midrange creatures, so the deck was horrendous as well. So, the draft went poorly, I'll have to look at the draftlog to see how much better that particular draft could have went if I wouldn't have focused on the soulfire as much early on. I honestly don't think I got passed too many good things however.
I also know that this argument are for cards only 2 slots away, but I like discussing this only because it's helping me learn why cards are better than others. So, just assume my messages take into account an understanding that I could be entirely wrong and am hoping to learn why!
So, I've done a handful of drafts since my last posting, and I'd say there's a handful of cards that I've had p1p1 that I sort of question their draft order in a grand pick order situation. Mostly, I'm discussing the smaller 2-3 drops I've gotten p1p1 vs. Ugin. So, I've gotten mardu strike leader , soulfire grand master , and jeskai infiltrator p1p1s as well as Ugin among drafts I've done since before. I've done more, but the debates are really for these "types" of cards vs a super late game bomb like Ugin. I dunno, and this isn't necessarily results oriented thinking because I 2-1ed with the leader, infiltrator, and ugin drafts. I 0-3ed the soulfire draft! ehhhh........ I digress.
The point is, if I have a foil infiltrator and an ugin sitting in my p1p1 theoretically, it would be incredibly hard for me to not take the ugin. Each game that ugin was cast, I won the game. I know alot of cards have the capability of having that power, but this card really just feels like unless you are within burn range or "have" to cast him with the risk of it being countered, meaning you are so far behind you have to risk that against sultai or jeskai etc, you are going to stabilize and win the match. Because, if you can't kill whatever threat necessary with his +2, you are going to at the very least equalize the board with his minus ability, with the potential of bringing back up his loyalty from there on out unless a valley dasher or burn shows up after nuking their woolly loxodons away, or something extreme.
Also, from the deck building perspective, it's hard to compete being as open as you are drafting a colorless planeswalker p1p1. Strike leader and infiltrator were neutered in both my drafts a few times from not being able to gain their ability without the tradeoff of sacrificing them, which is obviously fair considering they are 3 drops, but it still makes me question taking a "solid" 3 drop over a colorless 8 mana bomb.
Now, I know that I'm "wrong" because I haven't found a single source that ranks ugin above all 3 of these creatures, especially not infiltrator. So I am just wondering whats the draft objective once you get any of these quality 2-3 drops p1p1 in order to bring them out to the fullest that makes them better than an Ugin p1p1. Maybe Ugin just seems easier to build around since you pretty much make the best durdling ramping biding your time type deck, or just slap it in as a parity destroyer that makes you win turn 12+, etc. Thanks for any help or advice.
Sorry about the scaleguard thing, I am *pretty* sure the card that shouldn't be in there is the enhanced awareness, and my reasoning for that was if I hit my U source I get my card draw without needing to dig for it. There isn't a way to have your final decklist is there?
And yea, Jeskai ascendancy did actually win me a race, but it was also sitting in my hand a few times, although generally it was because I had other choices I suppose. I think I take another choice from that pack next time in the same situation.
Magicmerl, responses in bold
Thanks, see, breaking down the actual draft logistics about that card make it seem very obvious not to take mantis rider there. Realizing I had to essentially, if my manabase actually worked out, having to sacrifice 2-3 early picks for lands over playables makes all too much sense, and I'd never trade 3 early land picks over 1 power and haste ever again.
and -
Cool thanks, although I do want to mention that my mastodon reference was mostly because it is a very obvious big toughness creature, to make the example clear. I wouldn't start taking mastodons p2p1 or anything haha... but, this makes me really wish I could see some sort of all comprehensive ranking of all cards in the format, pitting khans and fate cards in the same rank, just to see where power levels lie. I tried looking into it on my own, using the Ugin's construct rankings in the CFB fate reforged draft order to cross reference with khans, but didn't really have much luck. You can see what cards are above and below an arbitrary benchmark in ugin's construct in CFB's color rankings for fate reforged, and it would be interesting to see where certain cards like parapet or a mastodon appear now.
Watcher of the roost would have been easier if kirin wasn't skipped for mantis rider.
I do have a question about ghostfire blade then. Where is that properly rated right this second? I can totally see how it becomes average if you have less than a good amount of face downs, so whats the threshold on that? I'm assuming in fast decks it's better than slow decks right? for P1p1 Khans the frank list has it top 5-6 in top rares, so because of being colorless I figured it still stays strong even contextually later and in fkk, but never really heard anything official about it. I also in the end didn't have very many face down creatures, making it yea in hindsight look pretty bad, but going into the khans packs I guess I wasn't sure how it would play out.
Also, the p1p1 frank list that I mentioned for Rider over Kirin, I "did" weigh that the p1p1 list was obsolete in ways at that point, but my contextual logic was that mantis rider was still better and explosive enough of a card that it was still worth it, which was still incorrect, lol. I'll know in this situation not to take rider over kirin next time, since I really didn't want to but felt like I had to there. But I do have a few follow up questions. So, you say when you get a couple heelcutters you try to stay 2 colors. This is amazing advice, because it's something only if you have a deeper knowledge of the game and cards that you could inherently know just as a rule of thumb. Sure, I look at heelcutter and want to stay red, but I wouldn't say I definitely know to stay 2 color because of projecting how the deck ends up.
So, if there are any big ones, what are other p1 (aka Fate) draft scenarios that lead to obvious decisions of that ilk. For example, if you have 3x grim contests, are you taking rotting mastodons higher in khans? So, this is pretty much referring to when you have a bunch of good commons or uncommons that make an obvious point for the rest of the draft, just like you said about heelcutters. Does 2x pyrotechnics make you want a different type of deck than if you had 1x pyrotechnics and 1 arcbond? I guess a further way to clarify this is, what commons/uncommons point you to obvious archetypes?
Of this ilk, I would "guess" harsh sustenence makes you want to be early game creature heavy, probably b/w warriors, and hoping you end up with ponyback brigades, but do I say that with confidence? Not really since I don't have much experience in anything other than khans limited. Thanks for any and all help.
This draft is my very next draft after the other current thread. I honestly was going to post this one no matter what because it had many unique circumstances in the draft, but it was another successful (and lucky) set of games getting a 3-0 in the swiss so that puts me on a bit of a hot streak lol. This deck seems a bit weak and won game 2 of match 3 through disconnect so still don't really feel all that great about it (I did win game 1 of match 3 however). Nonetheless, here we are:
Event #: 8000259
Time: 2/19/2015 12:12:14 AM
Players:
CoachMurfy
Slayde187
--> KustomPaintaz
slapazine
Str8sh0t714
moitamu
zyzzz
xcnhikari
------ FRF ------
Pack 1 pick 1:
Jeskai Sage
Hooded Assassin
Pressure Point
Aven Skirmisher
Lotus Path Djinn
Douse in Gloom
Archers of Qarsi
Fierce Invocation
Feral Krushok
Great-Horn Krushok
Mindscour Dragon
--> Elite Scaleguard - well, this was an easy pick and tried to look for signals it would send. Gloom, Djinn, and Sage are next cards to take I assume
Dragonrage
Rally the Ancestors
Rugged Highlands
Pack 1 pick 2:
Rakshasa's Disdain
Gurmag Angler
Abzan Advantage
Will of the Naga
Sultai Runemark
Abzan Runemark
Map the Wastes
Collateral Damage
Formless Nurturing
--> Sandsteppe Outcast - easy pick since it meshes so well with scaleguard. Seems like another weak pack without too much to commit to after my card. Double U naga, collateral damage?
Sudden Reclamation
Neutralizing Blast
Friendly Fire
Scoured Barrens
Pack 1 pick 3:
Ethereal Ambush
Dragon Bell Monk
Enhanced Awareness
Gurmag Angler
--> Goblin Heelcutter - here was my first tough decision of the draft, after my last draft being easier in that regard. Sureshot might be a bomb but it's greatness can be conditional and my deck seemed more aggressive with multiple tap/block effects already. I also said I'd rather be red than black with my fastish picks thus far.
Ambush Krotiq
Gore Swine
Frontier Mastodon
Alesha's Vanguard
Defiant Ogre
Orc Sureshot
Sage's Reverie
Rugged Highlands
Pack 1 pick 4:
Abzan Skycaptain
Enhanced Awareness
Typhoid Rats
Grim Contest
Dragon Bell Monk
Mardu Runemark
Ambush Krotiq
Write into Being
--> Goblin Heelcutter - right now I feel like I'm living the dream since like my last draft with 2 cloudforms I now have two heelcutters. My tap/block abilities are going to be consistent at this point so I feel like my draft strategy is more set up now. Grim Contest, Skycaptain were choices and if I would have taken the Sureshot last turn it would have made this pack even tougher. (heelcutter/mardu or contest/abzan)
Frost Walker
Grave Strength
Tranquil Cove
Pack 1 pick 5:
Pressure Point
Whisk Away
Sultai Emissary
Jeskai Runemark
--> Sandblast - well, I was picking between channel harm and this, and I erred on the side of lower curve, which ended up being in hindsight a good decision in play. Harm has won/saved games however, but I still pick this easy.
Temur Runemark
Mardu Scout
Feral Krushok
Dark Deal
Abzan Kin-Guard
Channel Harm
Pack 1 pick 6:
Abzan Advantage
Refocus
Hooded Assassin
Great-Horn Krushok
Frontier Mastodon
Defiant Ogre
Ainok Guide
Alesha's Vanguard
Break Through the Line
--> Dismal Backwater - somewhat tough decision. I figure I won't play any of these cards ideally, so took the land even though it's a longshot itself. The vanguard was my other choice but I never saw myself going out of my way for splashing a vanguard. Considered ainok guide which if I would have taken it might have ended up changing the whole draft, given some of my later decisions...
Pack 1 pick 7:
Refocus
--> Soul Summons - I look at write into being because I would consider jeskai colors, but stuck with consistency instead for now since I really did have nice red and white cards I figured I'd want to stay R/W/x
Will of the Naga
Ancestral Vengeance
Cunning Strike
Defiant Ogre
Temur Runemark
Write into Being
Goblin Boom Keg
Pack 1 pick 8:
Jeskai Sage
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Archers of Qarsi
--> Smoldering Efreet - well after skipping U the last time, an even earlier game blue card seemed wrong.
Return to the Earth
Great-Horn Krushok
Abzan Kin-Guard
Pack 1 pick 9:
Jeskai Sage
Aven Skirmisher
Archers of Qarsi
Great-Horn Krushok
Dragonrage
Rally the Ancestors
--> Rugged Highlands - another pack without great playables other than that pesky early U sage which is looking nice for someone's early U game. Really want to take it but would feel that now the potential G splash for a... loxodon perhaps was best. lol...
Pack 1 pick 10:
--> Rakshasa's Disdain
Abzan Advantage
Will of the Naga
Sultai Runemark
Neutralizing Blast
Friendly Fire
Pack 1 pick 11:
--> Enhanced Awareness - just making note that this makes me prefer ending up jeskai than mardu since it can help late game in my given situation
Ambush Krotiq
Alesha's Vanguard
Defiant Ogre
Sage's Reverie
Pack 1 pick 12:
--> Enhanced Awareness
Mardu Runemark
Ambush Krotiq
Grave Strength
Pack 1 pick 13:
--> Pressure Point
Temur Runemark
Dark Deal
Pack 1 pick 14:
--> Great-Horn Krushok
Defiant Ogre
Pack 1 pick 15:
--> Goblin Boom Keg
------ KTK ------
Pack 2 pick 1:
Bloodfire Expert
Savage Punch
Embodiment of Spring
Mardu Skullhunter
Mardu Hateblade
Leaping Master
Scout the Borders
Bloodfell Caves
Sidisi's Pet
Glacial Stalker
Chief of the Edge
Seeker of the Way
Highspire Mantis
--> Ghostfire Blade - I consider mantis and seeker but obviously this is a great card.
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 2:
Alabaster Kirin
Tormenting Voice
Scoured Barrens
Embodiment of Spring
Unyielding Krumar
Smite the Monstrous
Valley Dasher
Scout the Borders
Bitter Revelation
Cancel
Monastery Swiftspear
Waterwhirl
--> Mantis Rider - Ughh... Kirin/Rider/Kirin/Rider/Kirin/Rider till 1 second left. I'm giving up 1 power for a far easier casting cost and no haste... with the ghostblade I really think kirin is the better pick but rankings I looked at have mantis higher in p1p1 situations so figured it's probably still better.
Forest
Pack 2 pick 3:
Awaken the Bear
--> Feat of Resistance - warden seems enticing but I don't have much fixing to start liberally taking U cards. This was my pick anyway probably.
Arrow Storm
Kin-Tree Warden
Swiftwater Cliffs
Disowned Ancestor
Rush of Battle
Bitter Revelation
Singing Bell Strike
Briber's Purse
Warden of the Eye
Despise
Island
Pack 2 pick 4:
Smoke Teller
--> Ainok Bond-Kin - nice early game card, meshes with scaleguard obviously. the U/R land reaaally looks nice though.
Bloodfire Expert
Scoured Barrens
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Archers' Parapet
Swiftwater Cliffs
Cancel
Become Immense
Take Up Arms
Plains
Pack 2 pick 5:
Canyon Lurkers
Dismal Backwater
Sultai Banner
Disowned Ancestor
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm - I looked at canyon lurkers for awhile, but arrow storm just seems to add some reach and I think I need removal too.
Molting Snakeskin
Scaldkin
Dragon Grip
Ride Down
Island
Pack 2 pick 6:
Erase
Tormenting Voice
Sultai Banner
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm - looked at winterflame a ton but again the fixing was too dire for an earlier blue card
Rotting Mastodon
Disdainful Stroke
Winterflame
Heart-Piercer Bow
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 7:
Hooting Mandrills
--> Salt Road Patrol - Another tough one for me. I was really going to take the loxodon until I saw the synergy of patrol with scaleguard. But, Loxodon meshes with Ghostfire blade too. So, in hindsight, I probably change this pick at the time... it ends up looking worse shortly.
Act of Treason
Woolly Loxodon
Singing Bell Strike
Temur Banner
Jungle Hollow
Dragon Grip
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 8:
Shatter
Awaken the Bear
Rotting Mastodon
Singing Bell Strike
Abzan Banner
Temur Charm
--> Take Up Arms
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 9:
Bloodfire Expert
Embodiment of Spring
--> Leaping Master - I'm R/W so leaping master seems better, lower curved and real evasion for stalls and all my combat tricks
Scout the Borders
Bloodfell Caves
Sidisi's Pet
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 10:
--> Tormenting Voice - take this to help with early game manafixing, never drew it however.
Embodiment of Spring
Valley Dasher
Scout the Borders
Cancel
Forest
Pack 2 pick 11:
Kin-Tree Warden
--> Rush of Battle - I almost don't even look at singing bell strikes? I know for this deck it's bad, but whats that card rated nowadays?
Singing Bell Strike
Briber's Purse
Island
Pack 2 pick 12:
--> Bloodfire Expert - really happy I got one
Bloodfire Mentor
Cancel
Plains
Pack 2 pick 13:
--> Siegecraft
Molting Snakeskin
Island
Pack 2 pick 14:
--> Siegecraft
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 15:
--> Mountain
------ KTK ------
Pack 3 pick 1:
Savage Punch
War Behemoth
Swift Kick
Archers' Parapet
--> Tranquil Cove - hard but just more disappointing pick. I really want knuckleblade there, but that just destroys any consistency this deck would have. Glacial stalker I looked at a long time too, but felt like I had to take the fixing because of that mantis.
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Molting Snakeskin
Glacial Stalker
Ruthless Ripper
Jeskai Elder
Icefeather Aven
Savage Knuckleblade
Plains
Pack 3 pick 2:
Defiant Strike
Act of Treason
Dragonscale Boon
Bloodfell Caves
Wetland Sambar
Mardu Skullhunter
Rush of Battle
Leaping Master
Bitter Revelation
Cancel
Kin-Tree Invocation
Warden of the Eye
--> Frontier Bivouac - tough to pick this after passing knuckleblade, but I needed a blue land and warden of the eye is too slow... Leaping master was considered too
Plains
Pack 3 pick 3:
Sagu Archer
Feat of Resistance
Shatter
Awaken the Bear
Sultai Scavenger
Force Away
Dutiful Return
Crippling Chill
Weave Fate
Jeskai Charm
Sultai Soothsayer
--> Wooded Foothills - So, this raredraft is even more interesting. I ended up with some fixing for G all of the sudden so really regret not taking the loxodon over saltroad patrol. I wanted Feat of resistance so bad but figured that card isn't worth a free pack in my deck. And hoped for another loxodon.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 4:
Canyon Lurkers
Longshot Squad
Defiant Strike
Swarm of Bloodflies
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Swiftwater Cliffs
Whirlwind Adept
Mer-Ek Nightblade
Frontier Bivouac
--> Jeskai Ascendancy - I figured I took the mantis, and I actually had a lot of spells including a take up arms that all of the sudden seemed decent, so took it over more lands and removal. Of course this is the pack with all my fixing.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 5:
Erase
Longshot Squad
Sage-Eye Harrier
Krumar Bond-Kin
Crippling Chill
Jeskai Banner
Rite of the Serpent
Jeskai Charm
--> Witness of the Ages - maybe another jeskai spell but seemed to take the blue splash too far, or maybe a splash for longshot squad (maybe given my counter cards and G sources?). I'm not splashing green for a longshot squad only
Retribution of the Ancients
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 6:
Summit Prowler
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Molting Snakeskin
Taigam's Scheming
Mardu Blazebringer
Brave the Sands
--> Horde Ambusher
Island
Pack 3 pick 7:
Defiant Strike
--> Alabaster Kirin - this was a tough pick for me. Taking this over watcher was hard and probably stupid, but I really liked the vigilance and toughness combo for a deck with ghostfire blade in it. Despite roost being a morph itself. I also saw I was low on 4 drops so figured the curve would be better. Weaponmaster was of course considered and probably the best type of card to splash blue. I wanted the evasion and earlier game instead. Oftentimes you do alot of setting up to get weaponmaster going so didn't want to wait for that.
Krumar Bond-Kin
Rite of the Serpent
Efreet Weaponmaster
Mardu Banner
Watcher of the Roost
Set Adrift
Swamp
Pack 3 pick 8:
--> Summit Prowler
Bloodfire Mentor
Sidisi's Pet
Scaldkin
Mardu Blazebringer
Windstorm
Howl of the Horde
Island
Pack 3 pick 9:
Swift Kick
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
--> Firehoof Cavalry
Molting Snakeskin
Jeskai Elder
Plains
Pack 3 pick 10:
Defiant Strike
--> Act of Treason - is defiant strike a better card for my deck? or is defiant strike even worse than act of treason? I couldn't see myself putting a defiant strike in but maybe the act.
Wetland Sambar
Rush of Battle
Cancel
Plains
Pack 3 pick 11:
Sagu Archer
Shatter
Dutiful Return
--> Weave Fate - went back and forth with this and enhanced awareness all draft.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 12:
Canyon Lurkers
Bloodfire Mentor
--> Whirlwind Adept - wanted this for ascendancy and blade, and got one luckily despite it being a tough card on my manabase.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 13:
--> Jeskai Banner
Retribution of the Ancients
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 14:
--> Firehoof Cavalry
Island
Pack 3 pick 15:
--> Swamp
-----------------------
So, my deck ended up:
1 horde ambusher
1 leaping master
1 soul summons
1 ainok bond-kin
1 sandsteppe outcast
2 goblin heelcutter
1 bloodfire expert
1 mantis rider
1 witness of the ages
1 salt road patrol
1 summit prowler
1 alabaster kirin
1 take up arms
1 whirlwind adept
1 feat of resistance
1 tormenting voice
1 sandblast
2 arrow storm
1 jeskai ascendancy
1 ghostfire blade
1 enhanced awareness
1 weave fate
1 smoldering efreet
1 rakshasha's disdain
1 rush of battle
1 act of treason
Lands (17):
1 tranquil cove
1 frontier bivouac
2 island
7 mountain
6 plains
curve counting creature spells as creatures:
1 cmc: s
2 cmc: ccccss
3 cmc: ccccccss
4 cmc: ccc
5 cmc: ccsss
As you can see, my manabase was scary. I ran out of time for deckbuilding and was intending on adding an 18th land island and removing the whirlwind adept, but ran out of time and kept it as is. I feel like I have early game again and have late game reach. I considered not using the jeskai ascendancy in mainboard, but I took the chance on it since I had so many non-creature spells. Not sure how I felt about it but will get to that eventually.
Here is the rundown of my matches. My closer matches I get into more detail, mostly as a way to showcase the cards themselves.
Match 1 game 1 - Jeskai - I pretty much roll. Soul summons turn 2 heelcutter turn 3. Kills my first heelcutter but draw second one next turn. They put out fierce invocation (colorless 4/4) but it can't block so they are at 8 I am at 20. I have mantis rider, heelcutter, horde ambusher, and soul summons out they only have manifest 4/4 so they concede.
Match 1 game 2 - I keep a two land hand with leaping master, outcast, heelcutter, sandblast, ascendancy and adept. Hit land drop for turn 3, so am rolling with leaping master and outcast out with it's flyer. I am up 20-16. Opp puts down rageform turn 4 so is tapped out currently. Turn 5, I start missing landdrops here, but can do a few plays. I have sandblast still, ascendancy, heelcutter dash, witness, and now an expert. I might have gotten a bit greedy playing ascendancy here, but wanted to maximize the value of my sandblast and feel a bit ahead so put it out. I now can only ping with flyer. I attack with all creatures turn 6, hoping to bait rageform and to keep my lead with all my gas left, with the sandblast card draw play from jeskai ascendancy. Collateral damage leaves only my 1/1 flyer left, and am facing a 4/4 manifest the turn after. I finally get 4th land, but nothing truly stabilizing to do. I put out heelcutter, and the turn after they put out highspire mantis. A game I thought I had earlier is now looking tough. Thanks to the ascendancy, my feat of resistance reaches highspire mantis toughness in a blowout there. I am at 6 opp is at 7 and I swing for lethal with 2/2 flyer and 3/2 heelcutter with take up arms ascendancy pump.
match 2 game 1 - Sultai deck - In a game of semi stalled boards but occasional trumps, my alabaster kirin + ghostfire blade rules the stalemate and sandbagging arrow storm and sandblast until necessary. Has incremental growth and big creatures like mandrils and rotting mastodons so some of my damage spells are looking weak.
match 2 game 2 - I mulled to 5 and really should have mulled again since it was a 1 land hand and 4 3+drops, but am on the draw and have heelcutter scaleguard and sandblast. They essentially roll but I hit 5 lands by turn 7 so I was slowing the bleed but lost turn 8 with opp at 18 life.
match 2 game 3 - I feel like I have the dream with 1 mountain 1 bivouac and a horde ambusher, heelcutter, sandblast, and mantis rider. draw soul summons turn 1 and heelcutter turn 2. I kept the pressure continuously with dashing heelcutter this whole time so with an ambusher on board the opp only has a morph and is at 5 life (I am at 20). Turn 6 I think I in hindsight make some play mistakes by stepping off the gas since I didn't want to trade creatures since I can't play my white ones yet, and am still 2 lands away from using arrow storm, so am just playing it safe hoping for arrowstorm since opp is at 5 and haven't seen a counterspell yet.
So, turn 6 I finally hit fourth land, but it's an island. Soul summons, bond-kin, sandblast, and mantis rider are all sitting in my hand. Removes heelcutter 1, next turn I draw bloodfire expert so put that out with my ambusher. Fast-forward to turn 10 stuck at 4 lands no plains with a now definite stalled board, my ambusher, expert, and ghostfire blade heelcutter vs their 3 morphs, rotting mastodon, and feral krushok. I have kirin and whirlwind adept in addition to my previous cards listed stuck in my hand. They start attacking with feral krushok 2 turns in a row while I still wait for a land, and take the damage because I want as many creatures as possible when I finally hit 5th land to ensure raid for my arrow storm, since at this point their board is much bigger and still has 4 cards in their hand. So, turn 12 I finally hit my 5th land and my arrow storm doesn't get countered. My board was empty and they'd swing for lethal the following turn otherwise. Huge game.
Match 3 game 1 - Abzan - I start off with great looking hand with all 3 basics covered and scaleguard, summons, and heelcutter. I get early beats in, but board stalls turn 6 when armament corps drops on their board giving them a frontier mastodon 4/3, highland game, armament corps 5/5, and a snake token from my prior bolstered heelcutter. All of the sudden by turn 7 I am at 12 life and opp is at 15, and I have a 3/4 scaleguard, manifest, and salt road patrol out with 1 counter but tapped for outlasting. Their turn they swing with everyone, I feat my scaleguard here to try to kill the 4/3 mastodon, but they awaken the bear it so it survives. I'm at 7 life now since I let the armament corps go through, and they only had 1 forest untapped and not enough delve for become immense. highland game and my manifest trade. I am at 7 life with scaleguard and patrol out. This is also where the video feed goes out on MTGO
What happens is, I sandblast their armament corps, so they are down to just a mastodon and snake, and I have arrow storm in hand. They get an abzan guide, while I get a ghostfire blade and witness of the ages. Ultimately, Opp keeps swinging but can't quite get rid of my scaleguard. Ultimately, my opp ends up with the snake token with no hand left at 23 life (thanks to abzan guide) vs. me with scaleguard and ghostfire blade at 6 life. We just keep swinging and I have arrow storm so I win the race eventually. Opp drew some lands here but kept putting them out so I knew they had no plays. I eventually got my mantis rider too so the race accelerated for me.
match 3 game 2 - Opp never chooses to play or draw so they lose from disconnect. While I wonder if they are on tilt after losing a game that looked like they "should" have won, I also could have won turns prior if I hit lands. So, whatever, I doubt the opp quit or something it was most likely a lucky disconnect.
-----------------
So, this was quite an interesting draft and a ton to learn from. I feel very fortunate to have gone 3-0 because the lack of consistency in the manabase revealed itself numerous times, but the cards I splashed for all definitely helped me win when I saw them, so it seemed worth it. Also, this draft could have ended up very different if I took ainok guide instead of dismal backwater, since I might have gone on the G or U train for some later fate picks. This could have made white a splash for scaleguard, mantis rider and maybe sandblast or outcast. I saw jeskai sages, write into being, bivouacs, loxodon, savage knuckleblade, many cards that could have fit into a better manabased temur color deck in hindsight. This could have backfired however so staying R/W might have been right in the end. Other specifics, like with jeskai ascendancy, are worth discussing, but I'll wait for now.
Have at it. I have a bunch of questions but I will wait for some responses first.
Thank you very much, I appreciate the response. I have a lot more to learn however haha...
[/quote]
Thanks a lot for your help. Just this session helped me a ton. I have some further question about this particular draft, but I am going to put up my next draft shortly so after some final things I will probably leave you alone about this one.
Honestly both questions bleed into my next draftcap but I don't want to assume you reading the next one so I'll ask these questions here.
1. In reference to your at least 3 source 2 card (nonmorph) splash rule, how about when it scales up to 3, 4, and 5 cards whats your source minimum? Once you are 6 that's pretty much a color, and 5 might be a little too convoluted as well, but any further info here would help thanks.
2. In terms of the rare draft there, so non pro type players (like LSV or something) rare draft in 8-4s? Is there a threshold of value to a card in FKK that you wouldn't rare draft once the circumstances sort of swing into taking the better card for your deck and win potential? Good example is, I once took a flooded strand over an archfiend of depravity and it killed me inside but I felt like I had to do it. I went 1-2 so chances are I probably made out better with the strand since that's almost the 2 packs I lost and to assume 3-0ing is a tall order just because of one card.
I suppose if anything further pops up I'll ask again, but I am going to put up another draft in the near future. Thanks again.
#2 about black mana sources. When you say your rule of thumb is 3 source minimum, do you mean for splashing 2 non morph cards?
#5 Yea, based on that my curve looks pretty odd. Here was my logic and I'd like to know what justifications are right/wrong, lol.... I guess I looked at my curve a tiny bit differently in that the cut and the heelcutter both were counted as flexible 4s, as well as monastery flock when I had the morph mana up for either it or dropping another creature down on turn 4. I definitely am top heavy at 5, but I figured most of them were late game plays once I'm running out of gas so I could get away with it more often than in other drafts where I might "need" a removal spell earlier. This deck was usually the aggressor and was getting by with creatures acting as the removal early game, and then using the removals for anything I couldn't trump.
#6 Yea, the bloodfire experts only came to me during tough calls I suppose and I seem to rate them lower than I should. I took the glacial stalker over it once because I'd rather err on blue early game and I like glacial stalker's 5 toughness, and then I took a dual over it which knowing how solid U/R I was maybe I'd change the next time. Murderous cut was huge against archfiend of depravity with the mardu ascendancy out in my 3rd match, so in results thinking I am happy I ended up with the black splash, but I know that's not how things always play out. -- edit -- I looked up where Bloodfire experts are relative to the glacial stalkers on the frank khans list, and he has stalkers at the very bottom of good commons and uncommons whereas experts are in the middle of the mediocre playables list below dual lands. But, in numerous places such as LSV drafts or here etc. I feel like bloodfire experts seem to be held in higher regard now post fate, and they definitely play better in efficient fast red decks when I've had to face them. So, is this a card that got better after Fate or is it a card that was just not properly rated at the time and this is an obsolete list, or is it a card that just select people like more and it's a coincidence I've heard a few mentions in recent days? lol.. And, whatever the case is, what are other cards from Khans that might fall in this category of being better now than before? I know there's that thread floating around but I actually care more about your opinion than me discussing my own in there.
-----------------------------------
If this is the premier location for draft education, I have some further questions for you haha. These are more open ended but hearing your answers will help me analyze these same things myself eventually.
What would you grade my deck in terms of power level as is for an FKK deck, and then the grade of it if I had the bivouacs splashing snowhorn and woolly? Rather, would you have been happy if the deck with the bivouacs was yours? I know this deck is skimping on power level in the grand scheme of things by taking delta over Sage Eye, and I'd also like that held against it in that it could have been better theoretically. Are you taking delta over sage eye in an 8-4 or swiss only?
This helps me since I am slowly learning draft grades of individual cards, but the idea of grading the whole deck together based on it's power can be used as reference in all future drafts. It also helps me gauge how powerful the decks I was facing were, for future reference as well. I definitely felt the 3rd match deck had good cards, like ascendancy, archfiend, sandsteppe, ponybacks, and seeker, so felt pretty good to beat it. I felt that my cloudforms were extremely potent, and were much more powerful than other decks I've had since they were early and consistent.
Second, what would you grade the actual draft performance itself then? It seems like my only glaring mistake for this particular draft was missing an extremely easy green splash that would have made nearly no hindrance on consistency for the rest of the deck. Other than that, it seems like in hindsight I made some good choices overall however. So like a B-? And I mean grading my draft against good/great drafters who for a 3-0 in an 8-4 are probably getting an A/A- for. Missing a tri seems like a beginner mistake that makes my draft have a glaring flaw.
Looking back on it, I can see why this would have just been better since my overall card quality skyrockets instead of having fringe playables for the purpose of making my deck faster, and, that really increases the chances of a good creature becoming my cloudform instead of trying to use temur battle rage with it.
Also, taking the bivouac p2p2 makes the chain reaction of future green morphs and bivouacs easy in addition to making my U/R manabase even better than it was. I hear a lot about on color lands being less desirable than off color lands, and I understand why but I think here I took it a bit too literally... I think the other reason why I took arrow storm there was because I had just gotten murderous cut, and because of that, I wanted to avoid the temptation of a 4th color since I didn't know how the rest of the draft would play out. That's also the same reason why tri-lands are amazing though. Also, looking at it, it was one of the very few picks that I didn't confer with the frank pick order to see just how they rate the power level of these 2 cards with each other since I was trying to do that for most of my picks just to help with memorization and stuff. I knew trilands were very high so assumed a good/decent common was lower, but I figured for "my" situation arrow storm was better.
So, a flaw in my logic didn't cost me any matches this time, but there's no doubt the deck improves with your picks. A few questions then.
1. if the bivouac isn't there p2p2 are you still taking the loxodon p2p4 banking on a potential 1 forest splash or was it only because of bivouac?
2. was my 4 swamp splash the right number for cut and throttle?
3. would you bump up to 18 lands if you had snowhorn and loxodon in your deck, or is the curve still low enough with all the 2 drops and morphs?
4. How much removal/combat tricks is the right number in FKK, and where do the card draw spells fit in to figuring out the proportions vs that and creatures? I generally don't use as much card draw as I probably should because I usually worry about bumping out a key spell/creature, and being at 9 spells worried me maindeck and was often boarding out the tormenting voice for the witness if I kept in the dasher for games.
5. I definitely know you give advice in almost all of these threads, but I'm not aware of all your general opinions yet or anything lol... So, I would like to just hear your opinions on the valley dasher and temur battle rage cards in general and what type of support it would take for you to use those cards. Because, in a way they were both sort of just thrown in (other than that my deck was relatively low curved) my deck for the virtue of trying to make it faster for game 1s, and it did kind of work here, and had no qualms boarding either out. But, you still would have drafted the temur battle rage over cunning strike when I did in the draft right?
6. For your pick suggestions, are these literally the only changes you would have made, or is this more to keep the suggestions smaller and more focused. What I mean is, there isn't an earlier P1 pick that you would have done that could have essentially changed the whole draft or anything? I'm only asking this because it helps me know if I am actually judging card quality consistently. Raredrafting polluted delta over sage eye avengers for example given it was a swiss. This may have affected drafting the cut and moreso the throttle afterwards potentially (throttle could have been g/u land, mandrils, etc, especially if I had the bivouac earlier)
edit - 1 more 7. As I said, I pretty much have multiple tabs open during the draft of all sorts of rating lists and help for both general drafting and FKK in particular. Meaning, I have all the frank and CFB lists up, I have the 2 google doc spreadsheets up of khans and fate, and a few other random tabs open when I draft. Other than watching various vids of drafts and stuff online, what are the best of the best sources for improving my knowledge for drafting in general and khans in particular?
Thanks for everything!
I definitely during the draft tried to be as aware as possible of signals I was receiving about colors being open. Sometimes I haven't done that in the past and ended up with low level cards which could have been easily avoided. But, I know how much I don't know, so if you notice any points where a signal might have been obvious let me know, even if it didn't affect my pick, just like the theory of it. I'm still trying to get a grasp of what picks are good when and when certain cards rise or fall in value relative to your prexisting picks. So, almost any advice is encouraged, in addition to the basic pick choices.
Event #: 7997248
Time: 2/18/2015 1:42:13 AM
Players:
--> KustomPaintaz
Archimideez
tomtom50911
seventhtroop
SecretSauce
Schabernack
guyzero
Zaiorn
------ FRF ------
Pack 1 pick 1:
Sandblast
Jeskai Sage
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Arashin Cleric
Hunt the Weak
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Temur Battle Rage
Reality Shift
Fearsome Awakening
Humble Defector
Sage-Eye Avengers
--> Polluted Delta --- Well, started with a raredraft. Would have clearly taken Sage Eye otherwise... some decent cards in the pack though.
Pack 1 pick 2:
Abzan Skycaptain
Enhanced Awareness
Typhoid Rats
Grim Contest
Dragon Bell Monk
Rakshasa's Disdain
Return to the Earth
Great-Horn Krushok
--> Goblin Heelcutter -- the more I go against heelcutter and the more I use it the more I realize how good the card is. Isn't it essentially elite scaleguard - bolsterx2 + dash at common?
Fruit of the First Tree
Sudden Reclamation
Honor's Reward
Friendly Fire
Thornwood Falls
Pack 1 pick 3:
Pressure Point
Whisk Away
Sultai Emissary
Jeskai Runemark
Bathe in Dragonfire
Map the Wastes
Lightning Shrieker
Ainok Guide
Sandsteppe Outcast
Smoldering Efreet
--> Cloudform -- I had the delta, and I've had a recent draft where I teetered on going grixis, and I regretted not doing so the last time. It was essentially an easy pick but Outcast and Dragonfire were thought about
Merciless Executioner
Wind-Scarred Crag
Pack 1 pick 4:
Ancestral Vengeance
War Flare
Soul Summons
Sultai Skullkeeper
Reach of Shadows
Whisperer of the Wilds
Collateral Damage
Temur Runemark
Write into Being
Battlefront Krushok
--> Cloudform -- well, this one was even easier since now I would have "consistent" hexproof flyers.
Lotus-Eye Mystics
Pack 1 pick 5:
Pressure Point
Whisk Away
Jeskai Runemark
--> Bathe in Dragonfire -- back to red... figured I was definitely U/R and a given splash, hopefully b for delta.
Map the Wastes
Lightning Shrieker
Ainok Guide
Smoldering Efreet
Fascination
Friendly Fire
Tranquil Cove
Pack 1 pick 6:
Jeskai Sage
--> Cunning Strike - took this over rageform for 2 reasons, 1 - double R with 2 double U at 3 cmc. 2 - all rankings have this ahead of it (so therefore this was why anyways lol)
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Cached Defenses
Rageform
Lotus-Eye Mystics
Dismal Backwater
Pack 1 pick 7:
Jeskai Runemark
War Flare
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Ambush Krotiq
--> Write into Being -- this was an example where I might have taken the "bombier" pick in the past in mindscour, but rankings, dialogue and vids have helped in advising to have quality low curved cards over later cards
Winds of Qal Sisma
Mindscour Dragon
Tranquil Cove
Pack 1 pick 8:
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
--> Temur Battle Rage -- between this and cunning... I think cunning is the better overall card, but I knew with cloudforms and potential early game combat potential I'd rather have the low curve combat trick
Pilgrim of the Fires
Pack 1 pick 9:
--> Jeskai Sage -- again, taking low curve over high curve, despite cunning strike being pretty good and wanting it bad. FRF rankings by CFB, sage is 1 card ahead of cunning, while the frank list has it much lower.
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Pack 1 pick 10:
--> Enhanced Awareness
Typhoid Rats
Rakshasa's Disdain
Return to the Earth
Great-Horn Krushok
Sudden Reclamation
Pack 1 pick 11:
Pressure Point
--> Jeskai Runemark
Map the Wastes
Lightning Shrieker
Smoldering Efreet
Pack 1 pick 12:
War Flare
--> Sultai Skullkeeper
Collateral Damage
Temur Runemark
Pack 1 pick 13:
--> Smoldering Efreet
Fascination
Friendly Fire
Pack 1 pick 14:
--> Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Pack 1 pick 15:
--> Arashin Cleric
------ KTK ------
Pack 2 pick 1:
Smoke Teller
Ainok Bond-Kin
Bloodfire Expert
Tranquil Cove
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Arrow Storm
Taigam's Scheming
Dutiful Return
Dazzling Ramparts
--> Murderous Cut -- well, this is about the best way for my delta to get used, thought about ascendancy.
Sultai Soothsayer
Jeskai Ascendancy
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 2:
Frontier Bivouac
Feed the Clan
Jeskai Student
Sultai Banner
Disowned Ancestor
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm - thought about bivouac for potential splash and u/r fixing, but took this since that's assuming alot to give up 4/5 damage
Dragonscale Boon
Rakshasa's Secret
Monastery Flock
Pine Walker
Mardu Charm
Abzan Ascendancy
Forest
Pack 2 pick 3:
Canyon Lurkers
Longshot Squad
Sultai Banner
Disowned Ancestor
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm -- wanted scion of glaciers and still second guess it, but I figured I'd take consistent damage to go along with heelcutter and cloudforms
Dragonscale Boon
Monastery Flock
Bitter Revelation
Scion of Glaciers
Chief of the Scale
Mardu Roughrider
Island
Pack 2 pick 4:
Woolly Loxodon
Salt Road Patrol
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Archers' Parapet
Embodiment of Spring
Cancel
Krumar Bond-Kin
Briber's Purse
Become Immense
--> Witness of the Ages -- relatively simple pick over mentor... I really like this card as it's sort of like glue, but it never seems to be very profitable
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 5:
Sage-Eye Harrier
Trumpet Blast
Hooting Mandrills
Alabaster Kirin
Sidisi's Pet
--> Throttle -- easy pick solidifying the black splash
Thornwood Falls
Ponyback Brigade
Jeskai Banner
Heart-Piercer Bow
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 6:
Bloodfire Expert
Sagu Archer
Rakshasa's Secret
Disdainful Stroke
Sidisi's Pet
--> Glacial Stalker
Mardu Banner
Sultai Charm
Heart-Piercer Bow
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 7:
Defiant Strike
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Molting Snakeskin
Taigam's Scheming
--> Sandsteppe Citadel -- essentially hatedrafted this but there for random splash potential
Kheru Bloodsucker
Island
Pack 2 pick 8:
Act of Treason
Tusked Colossodon
--> Wetland Sambar -- I took this over master because cloudforms were going to require early blue. But, I wonder about the tradeoff for the jeskai runemark activation potential if I used it in matchups.
Rush of Battle
Leaping Master
Archers' Parapet
Rakshasa's Secret
Forest
Pack 2 pick 9:
Smoke Teller
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
--> Taigam's Scheming
Dutiful Return
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 10:
Feed the Clan
Sultai Banner
Siegecraft
--> Dragonscale Boon
Rakshasa's Secret
Forest
Pack 2 pick 11:
Sultai Banner
Siegecraft
Dragonscale Boon
--> Bitter Revelation
Island
Pack 2 pick 12:
Archers' Parapet
--> Embodiment of Spring
Briber's Purse
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 13:
--> Jeskai Banner
Heart-Piercer Bow
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 14:
--> Heart-Piercer Bow
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 15:
--> Island
------ KTK ------
Pack 3 pick 1:
War Behemoth
Swift Kick
Awaken the Bear
Feat of Resistance
Shambling Attendants
--> Mystic of the Hidden Way -- Throttle, Sage, and Snowhorn were considered. I was still light on creatures and with the runemark and double strike I figured this was better than stretching manabase further.
Wind-Scarred Crag
Snowhorn Rider
Throttle
Blossoming Sands
Goblinslide
Brave the Sands
Tuskguard Captain
Sage of the Inward Eye
Forest
Pack 3 pick 2:
Barrage of Boulders
Savage Punch
Embodiment of Spring
Unyielding Krumar
Smite the Monstrous
Valley Dasher
Scout the Borders
--> Dismal Backwater -- easy pick to me to solidify black and definitely paid off in results but the scavenger was tempting. Given my creature count, was this right though?
Scaldkin
Sultai Scavenger
Cranial Archive
Armament Corps
Frontier Bivouac
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 3:
Naturalize
War Behemoth
Bloodfire Expert
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Archers' Parapet
--> Swiftwater Cliffs -- considered the bloodfire expert, and looked at bloodflies, but reaaaaally wanted to keep the splash small and efficient
Embodiment of Spring
Taigam's Scheming
Debilitating Injury
Swarm of Bloodflies
Incremental Growth
Forest
Pack 3 pick 4:
Erase
Tormenting Voice
Longshot Squad
Sage-Eye Harrier
--> Glacial Stalker -- I've yet to use a treasure cruise in my recent improved swiss performances, so I really wanted to take it here, but glacial stalker seems more important and wanted more creatures
Rugged Highlands
Abomination of Gudul
Temur Banner
Treasure Cruise
Roar of Challenge
Armament Corps
Island
Pack 3 pick 5:
Ainok Bond-Kin
Mardu Skullhunter
Mardu Hateblade
Leaping Master
Scout the Borders
--> Jeskai Windscout - this was an easy pick
Whirlwind Adept
Rotting Mastodon
Mardu Blazebringer
Set Adrift
Forest
Pack 3 pick 6:
Act of Treason
Tusked Colossodon
Kin-Tree Warden
--> Swiftwater Cliffs - another easy pick and feeling about 100% about the manabase
Tusked Colossodon
Bloodfire Mentor
Rotting Mastodon
Singing Bell Strike
Seek the Horizon
Plains
Pack 3 pick 7:
Tormenting Voice
Longshot Squad
Sage-Eye Harrier
--> Disdainful Stroke - wished I had some white for the weaponmaster but took sideboard card instead
Sidisi's Pet
Abzan Banner
Efreet Weaponmaster
Windstorm
Swamp
Pack 3 pick 8:
Defiant Strike
Mardu Skullhunter
Mardu Hateblade
Scout the Borders
Kheru Dreadmaw
--> Monastery Flock
Abzan Charm
Plains
Pack 3 pick 9:
War Behemoth
Swift Kick
Awaken the Bear
Shambling Attendants
--> Snowhorn Rider - maybe goblinside for a random sideboard but nah hatedrafting this seemed better lol.
Goblinslide
Forest
Pack 3 pick 10:
Embodiment of Spring
--> Valley Dasher -- wanted one and luckily got it late. Bivouac is coming around really late. Made me consider because of snowhorn but thought that was getting too cute at this point of the draft.
Scout the Borders
Cranial Archive
Frontier Bivouac
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 11:
Naturalize
Archers' Parapet
Embodiment of Spring
--> Taigam's Scheming
Forest
Pack 3 pick 12:
--> Tormenting Voice
Abomination of Gudul
Temur Banner
Island
Pack 3 pick 13:
Scout the Borders
--> Mardu Blazebringer
Forest
Pack 3 pick 14:
--> Tusked Colossodon
Plains
Pack 3 pick 15:
--> Swamp
So, My deck was:
1 sultai skullkeeper
1 wetland sambar
1 jeskai sage
1 smoldering efreet
1 valley dasher
1 jeskai windscout
1 goblin heelcutter
1 mystic of the hidden way
2 glacial stalker
1 monastery flock
2 cloudform
1 write into being
spells (9):
1 enhanced awareness
2 arrow storm
1 tormenting voice
1 cunning strike
1 temur battle rage
1 murderous cut
1 throttle
1 bathe in dragonfire
1 polluted delta
1 dismal backwater
2 saltwater cliffs
2 swamp
5 island
6 mountain
1 bitter revelation
1 witness of the ages
1 disdainful stroke
1 mardu blazebringer
1 jeskai runemark
So, I really had my deck built to be fast for game 1s by having the valley dasher in and a creature like witness on the board. I find that it's easier to punish slow decks in FKK if you build your deck properly and this was one of the few times with the cloudforms and heelcutter that dasher would be nice to test my opponent's speed.
Annoyingly, mtgo didn't save the vids of this draft so I don't remember much about the games.
Match 1 was against a sultai deck which I won game 1, they won game 2, and dropped after a long time being idle game 3.
Match 2 and 3 were both against mardu decks. Match 2 I went 2-0 I think, opponent mentioned after game 1 not having an answer for cloudform and in the 2nd game I had 1 starting hand and drew the other on turn 2/3.
Match 3: This deck had an archfiend of depravity but took that out with a timely murderous cut from a dead jeskai sage in game 1 and eventually won after that. Opp had good early white creatures, hateblade, seeker, outcast, and skycaptain all making their appearance game 1 as well, so had my guard up this match. Game 2 I lost to a stalled board where eventually a mardu ascendancy took over and lost to a rush of battle alpha strike. Game 3 I won with a cloudform/runemark and a heelcutter leading the way, and doing the final 7 damage in an alpha strike, with an arrow storm and cunning strike in hand.
Never drew my mystic of the hidden way, temur battle rage alpha struck in match 1, cunning strike was good, certain matchups I'd side out throttle for bitter revelation, and I'd side out valley dasher for witness of the ages if they didn't seem profitable. Tormenting voice also went in and out, but never drew it either. Write into being was good, and monastery flock came in handy a bunch of times.
Alright well, have at it -
I think bottom line is it's a more skill intensive card which makes a player like myself feel a little more at ease just taking a dumber card like Heelcutter which is close overall probably. But, in reality, it's probably not that skill intensive since the situations where you see it's profitable are pretty apparent when they pop up.
I had a p1p1 decision today of Heelcutter and Arcbond, and I chose the arcbond. Based on results, it's hard to say, I only saw it once, which I did get to use against some tokens on a morph creature, but it wasn't enough to win the game. It didn't synergize all that great with my deck, since the best creatures available were mostly low mana green creatures like highland game, alpine grizzlies, etc., but the top of the curve had 3 snowhorn riders and a pine walker as large damage soakers in theory. I 2-1ed and was a 10 damage swiftspear away from a cunning strike and/or 2 attacking creature board from attacking with the opp at 3 life left from 3-0ing, so, it's possible the heelcutter could have helped win that match since I was a bit too slow for that explosive damage potential. Then again, red was my splash color so arcbond actually fit the manabase better in the end since it's a slower card. But, yea... I can see why arcbond has such a variance of opinion overall.
In an ideal world, I want to make UW heroic anyway. I'm new to mtgo, but grew up on revised/4th/forgotton empires/chronicles/ice age/homelands and then had another standard foray during shards->scars of mirrodin, so I've always been a fan of WW type decks, and heroic is about as close to WW in competitive that I could imagine. I enjoy the theme of the deck very much, and I'm happy it's competitive... I just wonder how competitive in the current meta and going forward obviously. Now, pretty much other than cheaper rares and commons, I need the 4 hero of iroas and 4 temples and that's it. My next question would be about how relevant mana confluence is since I've seen some more recent decks remove them but that might just be because of eventual rotation and it's a pseudo budget deck anyway. But a card like Brimaz I also wonder about, since, just like U/W heroic, I like the card a lot and would not mind getting them, but they don't seem to be used in recent iterations anyway, but again it might be a budget element sometimes. Also, because he is used in multiple decks and sees his minor play in other formats I wonder if getting 2 or 3x of them wouldn't be a complete loss after rotation, slightly. So yea, pretty much all those questions I have about U/W heroic, but chances are I am going to make this deck anyway.
Next element, is about the remainder of my cards, or, if it's really just worth it instead of u/w heroic, to invest in a upper tier deck. Ideally, and my cards match it anyway, I prefer Abzan thematically of the top tier decks. I have 4x siege rhino, anafenza and then 3 g/w fetches, 2 sorins, and probably some other cards that go in this deck from drafting khans and fkk. So, I don't have thoughtsieze, probably the largest investment for the deck, but I imagine those cards retain value since they are used so often, so I don't mind having to get them. Next clan of the top tiers I like is mardu, and have some red cards like 2 sarkhans 2 fetches 2 phoenixes that may or may not go in. Ultimately, I know having assets doesn't mean much and it's all interchangeable.
But, ultimately I guess I just want to hear what anyone thinks about the top tier of decks and then where a handful of budget 1.5 decks slide into the grand scheme of things and then the usual projecting based on any info at hand. I know right this millisecond there's some dual color combinations in addition to the clans starting to form so yea just some help with all that, thanks alot!
One card, which I see is now close within the tier, that I would not take over ugin for sure is soulfire. I'd take strike leader or infiltrator because they are essentially x for 1's on sticks when you deal with them, but soulfire requires some luck in the draft for it to turn out better than Ugin I feel like. If you get sandblasts and burn then yea the card would be awesome, but by then if you are also doing buybacks, you are almost at 8 mana anyway. And,if you are married to the colors to get value out of the buyback, which for lifelink purposes in khans limited is either R/W with small blue splash since blue instants/sorceries aren't lifelinking so you'd most likely prefer r/w damage spells, or, you end up mardu, which then has harsh sustenance and douse, which is indeed great, but these cards need to get drafted too and could be risky depending on how early of picks they are and how the colors are playing out. So, in a way, I almost find soulfire as a more constricting card than ugin. I know it's 2/2 lifelink on it's own so it's never bad as long as you're running white as color 1/2, but I feel like the odds of "squandering" the potential of those two cards falls in soulfire's favor (or lack thereof) and can be just a better tempoed smoke teller sometimes. I'm sure I will eventually have a match where Ugin had to sit in my hand as I was getting beat down, but in a way, those were the games I was going to lose anyway, until my skill gets better and make better quicker decks where that situation is null and void possibly. In my draft, and I know this is results oriented, but I only ended up with 3 burn spells by the end of the draft and I was indeed seeking them out, harsh, bring low, and collateral damage. I'll admit the whole deck was a nightmare, but the draft went poorly so it was expected. I ended up W/R/b with lackluster burn, expensive removal otherwise like smites and serpents, and weak midrange creatures, so the deck was horrendous as well. So, the draft went poorly, I'll have to look at the draftlog to see how much better that particular draft could have went if I wouldn't have focused on the soulfire as much early on. I honestly don't think I got passed too many good things however.
I also know that this argument are for cards only 2 slots away, but I like discussing this only because it's helping me learn why cards are better than others. So, just assume my messages take into account an understanding that I could be entirely wrong and am hoping to learn why!
The point is, if I have a foil infiltrator and an ugin sitting in my p1p1 theoretically, it would be incredibly hard for me to not take the ugin. Each game that ugin was cast, I won the game. I know alot of cards have the capability of having that power, but this card really just feels like unless you are within burn range or "have" to cast him with the risk of it being countered, meaning you are so far behind you have to risk that against sultai or jeskai etc, you are going to stabilize and win the match. Because, if you can't kill whatever threat necessary with his +2, you are going to at the very least equalize the board with his minus ability, with the potential of bringing back up his loyalty from there on out unless a valley dasher or burn shows up after nuking their woolly loxodons away, or something extreme.
Also, from the deck building perspective, it's hard to compete being as open as you are drafting a colorless planeswalker p1p1. Strike leader and infiltrator were neutered in both my drafts a few times from not being able to gain their ability without the tradeoff of sacrificing them, which is obviously fair considering they are 3 drops, but it still makes me question taking a "solid" 3 drop over a colorless 8 mana bomb.
Now, I know that I'm "wrong" because I haven't found a single source that ranks ugin above all 3 of these creatures, especially not infiltrator. So I am just wondering whats the draft objective once you get any of these quality 2-3 drops p1p1 in order to bring them out to the fullest that makes them better than an Ugin p1p1. Maybe Ugin just seems easier to build around since you pretty much make the best durdling ramping biding your time type deck, or just slap it in as a parity destroyer that makes you win turn 12+, etc. Thanks for any help or advice.