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    posted a message on Return To Zendikar Confirmed!
    Quote from javert »
    About time we get more elves, they have been shunned a lot of recent sets for little reason; although this Joraga extermination thing may me fear we could only see one legendary creature described as The Last Elf.
    (I know there also the Mul Daya, but I suspect they look too unconventional for WotC's tastes and they seem to be opposite to Nissa).
    There are a fair number of people who have been very vocal about how obsequious they've been to elves and goblins in the past, so giving them a break is likely both for flavor reasons and also marketing so that people don't continue to get burnt out on what are the most popular characteristic races.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on A Question About Eldrazi
    Quote from Flisch »
    What's wrong with Theros? >:/
    Maybe he just didn't like working on the art for that block. *shrug*
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Return To Zendikar Confirmed!
    Quote from aldeayeah »
    Quote from Barinellos »
    Sorin has no business being white either so....


    You mean mechanically or storywise?
    Storywise.
    All the things he does are born from a selfish place, even if they benefit others, and he's a bit too cavalier about casual murder and eating other people for the "greater good" to shine through.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Koopa »
    Does Sarkhan even know he released the Eldrazi? I know he was in the Eye when it opened but did the brood pour out of it right away or did he walk away right after?

    He did encounter some of the brood doing a corpsehatch out of a dragon. That's about when Ugin starting really chatting into his ear.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    Quote from Perkunas687 »
    Quote from Barinellos »
    Quote from Perkunas687 »
    Time Spiral and legends of the past were like looking through a history book, not pulling them into the present physically via time travel, right? Confused
    No, they were physically displaced in time. (for purposes of flavor)


    Okay, so what about Sarkhan's trip back? Did they explain how that works yet in comparison to Urza and Karn? From what I recall, it took a lot of energy to send Karn back just a short period of time, and he needed to be silver to survive the trip. I hadn't even thought about that until the video that one person posted.
    Unfortunately no. When asked about it Doug just put us off saying "we'll explain later" and hinted it should be coming around about the time Sarkhan learns of it in DTK.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    Quote from Jenrik »
    I like the prospect of Heliod's heroic son as a PW despite not being a god. It's very Greek too, but speculation at best.
    and very outlandish and baseless at that.
    So, it very definitely does not belong here.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    Quote from Perkunas687 »
    Time Spiral and legends of the past were like looking through a history book, not pulling them into the present physically via time travel, right? Confused
    No, they were physically displaced in time. (for purposes of flavor)
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Duke Daemon »
    I hope not, it took way too long to finally get a kor walker. Tired of always getting human walkers. It's as if they are special and so get all the good things. I mean we finally got a zombie walker (i assume due to flavour) in Theros, Ashiok.
    Ashiok isn't a zombie. If anything, Ashiok would qualify as a horror or nightmare.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Return To Zendikar Confirmed!
    Quote from PiscesJazz13 »

    Gideon: Red/White
    Gideon isn't likely to be red/white even if they keep aligning him to red/white factions.

    but then again, Sorin has no business being white either so....
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    Quote from Jenrik »
    So I was reading more about this on Reddit and I really like the idea proposed there about Gideon never knowing his father and possibly being the son of Heliod, like Hercules was of Zeus in a way, since he is holding a spear like his in the new art. It might explain his powers, since doesn't Gideon have some kind of immunity to physical force or something? IDK. It would be pretty interesting nonetheless.
    The gods, as we know them, don't function that way. If Gideon had been created by any of the gods, he would be a Nyxborn, but quite frankly, we have no reason to believe the gods are even capable of normal reproduction.

    Quote from Vorthospike »
    People keep saying the "Order of Heliud" isn't about Heliod but honestly a one letter retcon seems extremely likely now that we know he's from Theros.
    except of course the fact that the Order was based entirely around the Purifying Fire on Regatha.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Most Powerful Entity Alive at the Present Moment
    Quote from Jenrik »
    I remember reading that they had done that and found it impressive. Which book was it in again? I'm surprised you think even Bolas couldn't make it past them by force either - any reason for that? I figured he's a powerful entity in his own right who has been there before (not that I disagree).

    It was in Future Sight.
    As to the rest, the sisters only barred Leshrac because Bolas had rolled up on Kamigawa to mete out some revenge against Night's Reach and the Umezawa lineage and once he left the sisters basically went "oh heeeeell no, that's not happening again."

    The fact they could tell Leshrac no means they really stood with oldwalker level powers, and while Bolas ultimately won that duel, Bolas isn't what he used to be either.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Most Powerful Entity Alive at the Present Moment
    Quote from Jenrik »
    True. O-Kagachi was a big deal and they took him down, so I imagine they're tough contenders. Not up there alongise Eldrazi or Bolas, but probably in the league of the Theros gods, Marit Lage, etc.
    They actively barred Leshrac from entering Kamigawa when he was tracking Bolas during their duel. Bolas as he is now probably couldn't force his way into the world with them on the gates.

    I'd put the sisters substantially higher than the Theros gods simply for that fact.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Most Powerful Entity Alive at the Present Moment
    Quote from TerrorKingA »
    Garruk is also a summoner and can use Green Magic to augment himself, a la Giant Growth. He lost to Liliana largely because the Chain Veil caught him offguard, and then never lost to another 'walker. It isn't so much "brute force" as it's "magical brute force". While Chandra can hurl a fireball or two at him, he can in turn summon a stampede or augment his power enough to brute force her into a mangled mess. As I like both Garruk and Chandra, I pray the two never meet in combat. Jam

    You do have to keep in mind, as well, that his magic isn't working right with the curse biting into him. He hasn't actually cast ANYTHING (successfully) that we've seen since his affliction took root. When he was fighting the planeswalkers Jace set on his trail, or Liliana or Jace himself, he didn't use spells. He just used total brute force and tried to overwhelm his opponent.

    Maybe it will be different now that he's achieved an equilibrium... but I'm not putting my money there. He seems to be a physical juggernaut now.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from orlouge82 »
    Doug has kind of hinted that Gideon leans a little bit red, so it's entirely possible that he could be RW. We haven't had such a color alignment on a planeswalker since Ajani Vengeant, and maybe there's a big demand for a Boros 'walker? As much as they say that they don't do color box-checking for planeswalkers, it looks like we got every color on the spectrum represented by planeswalkers for each block starting with Innistrad (we've actually had it for every block since Lorwyn except for Scars, which was missing green), so it's clearly something that they're aware of. Plus, with Nahiri possibly showing up, the field is disproportionately represented by white planeswalkers (Ajani, Gideon, Elspeth (who's "dead" but strongly hinted to possibly return (hopefully not with an upper case "R")), and now Nahiri). They may just decide that Gideon, being the most "super hero vigilante type" planeswalker out there, would be the best fit for a RW alignment.

    They made a statement that they feel Gideon is still a white walker, despite allying with the Boros (and apparently being from Akros). He isn't one to actually use red mana because of various reasons, one of which is he feels red blinds people to their actions, makes the short sighted and reckless, but even then, he has a rather poor history of interacting with red, as well as the constant teaching his master gave him of how the walker who originally wielded the sural died to a pyromancer.

    So, he has issues with red to begin with.

    I think Ajani would be much more likely to lapse back into R with the kind of resentment and anger he has over how the establishment and authority treated Elspeth. I could see an anarchistic trend develop in him.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Return To Zendikar Confirmed!
    Quote from Smokestack »
    Quote from Onering »
    That would be a good example of Wizards listening to the customers. Correct me if Im wrong, but I remember him originally being just a throwaway legend until there was a lot of interest in him.


    Well, the "former walker" part of his story was there from the beginning, so I wouldn't call him a throwaway legend, given how unique his condition was.

    And WotC has a very Phyrexian way of handling unused or underdeveloped concepts. Nothing is ever thrown away.
    Given, it might end up dismembered and put back together but...

    :p
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Jenesis »
    In fairness their choices for mono-red walkers are pretty limited, to the point that Chandra's the only 'walker they've never kicked out of the core set. Koth's story is entirely tied up with Mirrodin, Sarkhan just had a whole block to himself, who actually likes Tibalt? and Daretti would be completely out of left field.
    All very cogent points.
    Personally I'm hoping Sorin and Ugin take a backseat in this one and we get Nahiri, a Nissa Worldwaker reprint (won't be in Origins, assuming all the walkers are DFCs), and possibly Kiora. Would be a real treat if she got reprinted in Standard after her recent Duel Deck release.
    I could see us having another run at Sorin, but I could believe Ugin would have other priorities at seeing how far gone Zendikar may or may not be. He has plenty of other things to attend to that are sure to have gotten out of hand in his absence.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Jivanmukta »
    I'm fairly sure they don't color balance when considering walkers. At least they've said that much.
    They have... but then they kind of hedged that by saying they look for characters to fill what they want in the set. That's why Ashiok ended up being made.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from orlouge82 »
    I would venture a guess that because Jace and Chandra are getting new cards in Magic Origins, we won't be seeing them in planeswalker card form in BFZ block. I would say the same about Nissa and Gideon, except that Gideon looks to be the "face" of the set a la Liliana in Innistrad, Jace in RTR, Elspeth in Theros, and Sarkhan in Khans/Dragons, he'll probably get a nice, pushed card. And the central theme of Nissa's character has been her connection to Zendikar and her role in the Eldrazi's release, so I'd guess she'd be in the block, too, but that could change based on how they told her Magic Origins story this summer.

    I very much hope you are correct in this, but by the same merit, they said they chose these 5 walkers to feature in Origins specifically because they would be playing a role in the future story.

    Now, Chandra I still feel has very little impetus to be involved since the Eldrazi aren't even on her radar. If Gideon goes back to Regatha (which I don't know why he would) and drags her along, I could see that.

    As for Jace, I REALLY hope they tie him back into what is going on with Liliana because they loved each other once. Liliana just loved herself more than she loved him.... and quite frankly, Liliana could use the humanizing influence of someone she cares about. Nissa and Gideon are kind of obvious plants for Zendikar.

    I would hope the final outlook would be Nissa, Kiora, Gideon and MAYBE Sorin and Nahiri...
    of course, that lovely specter "color balance" rears its head, which means we're staring at 3 white walkers, 2 green ones, a blue, a black, and no red... but I still really would rather they didn't get Chandra back in the Zendikar storyline because she has her own pursuits. It would, at least, make sense (so long as they rope Gideon in), but what she has going on is already much more interesting.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Most Powerful Entity Alive at the Present Moment
    Quote from TerrorKingA »
    Seriously, Garruk's up there. He has no trouble taking out other 'walkers, especially as the Apex Predator.

    well... it's sort of a situation where he's developed a minor magic resistance, it seems, but he isn't magically powerful. (or at least actively so)
    Instead, it's the fact that he's 8 feet tall and has a massive axe. None of what he did to the other walkers was done with any magic, but raw brute force.

    Put next to Chandra, he might end up a crispy critter before he can get in ax'ing range.

    Now, I'm not refuting what you state, but being physically imposing can be stilted when your opponent is mystically gifted. Part of why he keeps getting his butt handed to him by Liliana. She can just stand back and spam death spells while he tries to get close enough.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Return To Zendikar Confirmed!
    Quote from TorelAschente »
    Sorin, Ugin, Nahiri, Nissa, Kiora, Gideon, Chandra, Jace and Bolas all have reasons (or at least a link to the original release) to be on Zendikar.

    I'd find it weird for them to plop Chandra into the story, since... well, she doesn't care or even know what happened. She's been off looking to put her boot up Ramaz's tuckus and hasn't, as we are aware at least, even glanced back at the trail she left in her wake.
    Jace is... problematic too, being the Guildpact and all, but mind, it made NO SENSE for him to be in the original Zendikar either.
    The first three want to re-seal the Eldrazi, the following five would attempt to destroy the Eldrazi. It's Bolas that's the big question mark. Why did he want the Eldrazi released?
    Like I said, Chandra doesn't even know the Eldrazi are a thing. The only way she'd be clued in is if the monks at Keral Keep have somehow decoded the copy they made of the Dragon Scroll for more details.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Return To Zendikar Confirmed!
    Quote from rps1224 »
    What do think about Elves being in Zendikar? I pumped that it might actually help make an elf modern deck more viable. Smile
    Going to be bothered if any of them are called "Joraga" considering how much of a fuss they made in Nissa Worldwaker's article about the Joraga being destroyed.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Return To Zendikar Confirmed!
    Battle for Zendikar confirmed! Discuss!
    To be honest... glad we're finally getting back to it, but I find it hard to care at this point. Just because the Eldrazi have kind of been hanging around for so long that they aren't novel anymore and conceptually, it's starting to show the cracks in how they've approached them.
    Other imp. stuff learned: Dual-faced PW cards in Origins
    Gimmick is gimmicky. I dunno, it just seems uninteresting to me even if they do work it out mechanically.
    New Sarkhan Card is Temur Coloured!
    Out of everything, this is the most nonsensical unless we get a sufficient reason he adopts blue. Something half decent at least other than "oh, he's smarter". Then again, the blue in the Temur was almost entirely magical rather than philosophical.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    Quote from Firemaster »
    Have Gideon and Ajani crossed paths yet?
    They have not.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Magic: Origins, final core set, explores the origin stories of Planewalker characters.
    Quote from RedGauntlet »
    If Gideon was born in Theros then his Duel of the Planewalkers 2012 trailer got retcon since he said that his world where he was born got destroyed

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvCwPBMNdXM

    I guess the trailer isn't canon XD but still feels strange
    That hasn't been canon for a long long time. People pointed out how it didn't mesh with his origin that we knew even back then.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    Quote from Avatar »
    In my opinion, he doesn't like Red magic because he cares about the consequences of actions, he's not an "end justifies the means" kind of person.

    It helps that his master constantly warned him not to trust red magic since his own master had been killed by a pyromancer.
    I knew that the Order of Heliod has something to do with all of this, but...I wouldn't guess Gideon COMES from Theros.

    Order of Heliud. With a U, not an O.

    Quote from Duke Daemon »
    I don't think Theros is the kind of place where they would rehabilitate recurring offenders of the law also

    Theros had no history of past planewalkers before Ashiok and Xenagos.

    According to the UR that covers some of Desperate Stand, if you get caught stealing, you get the option to join the military.

    Also, Ashiok is NOT from Theros.

    Quote from Jenrik »
    As a White PW, and the whole Order of Heliud thing, I wonder if we'll see white themed Theros cards and whether they'll focus on Heliod or Iroas (gods Gideon might have worshipped).
    Heliud is not Heliod.
    But aside from that, there's no certainty which, if any, of the gods he would have paid respect to. After all, Cymede, queen of Akros, was a disciple of Keranos.

    Quote from TerrorKingA »
    Oh, for some reason I assume he meant Elspeth.
    You were meant to. They were essentially leading you to that conclusion and if it had been Elspeth as a child, that would have still put it over a decade ago.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    Quote from DJWang2014 »
    But they didn't just make them Elder because they are "totes old and stuff". As I understood Doug's response, it's that they are *THE primogenitors of their brood.* An *entire* race of dragons is under their dominion. That's not anything to scoff at. That 1000 years have passed means they have proportionally gained power also.

    They are not the progenitors. Ugin is the progenitor.
    They are the alpha dragons of their brood and have been for some time, but they were not the first of their kind, nor are they responsible for the propagation of their kind.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from TerrorKingA »
    Well that's enough of that then.

    Going back to "Desperate Stand," cyclopes must be pretty badass to wipe out Gideon's forces.
    Well, in fairness, they are IMMENSE beasts.
    Though I'm still getting shades of Attack of Titan here.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    While I do think this conversation is worth following, I do kind of have to agree that it's gotten a little off topic.

    There again, I'm also not sure how much there is to say about Gideon in relation to either Theros or Bant that hasn't already been said.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Perkunas687 »
    As for ideological apex, I'd like to hear more about that from you, since it is an intriguing idea, but I don't know what you conceive that idea as.
    Well, it goes into the fact that each of the clans revered one aspect of the dragons and came up with a symbol to represent that trait. They aspired to emulate the dragons as apex predators even though they'd fought them constantly.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    Quote from Arwin_Rand »
    My apologies for misunderstanding you then.

    Regardless though, I still don't see why Narset and Sarkhan need to be romantically involved or how their relationship (in the we know each other sense) can't be viewed as kindred spirits but platonic ones.
    It certainly could be read as that and that is how I read it.
    But there are also those who read it as a romantic relationship and that is valid too because the interpretations are independent to each reader. The Death of the Author provides that the the personal experience people read into a passage is valid to them and we pretty much just have to come up with a popular consensus. Which is why I worry because if the consensus seems to fluctuate between the romantic and the platonic and if it sways too far to a "soul mate" situation, I fear we're going to get stuck with it in the fandom.

    Essentially, it comes down to perception is reality, and that worries me.

    But Red is the color of loyalty and I can see Sarkhan especially latching on to someone new as a friend without much time elapsing.
    red certainly can be loyal, but I'm not sure I'd call it the color of loyalty... Loyalty is a trait that can really manifest in any color just because of what it is. Even Toshiro Umezawa was loyal to the Hyozan Reckoners, and he was mono-black.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    Quote from Gutterstorm »
    As for Narset and Sarkhan I don't see any difference between they're "random hookup" and a romantic relationship between Chandra and Gideon. Narset made Sarkhan feel peaceful in his otherwise ravaged mind. Chandra makes Gideon question his alliances and his beliefs. I think either of these relationships is fine but I don't think calling one a random hookup while thinking the other is fine is a good way to look at it. Personally I think Sarkhan deserves a nice lady to accompany him after all the crap he's been through. And if Chandra can get Gideon to lighten(heh) up a little then great. I do think it would be interesting if they explored planeswalkers relationships with each other more which it seems is what they will be doing in the future. I mean we know that Jace and Lilli were a thing once upon a time.
    I suppose I should respond to this too.
    The difference between Chandra and Gideon and Narset and Sarkhan is the sort of chemistry and tension that was present.
    Narset and Sarkhan lacked pretty much all of that. They met and got along, but there wasn't really anything there that made sense as a relationship. Sarkhan went all agog and smitten with her, but it was very much a projection onto Narset instead of a mutually built relationship. To quote Barbara Streissand from a movie (I honestly don't remember which one) "You aren't in love with me, you're in love with the idea of me."

    Gideon and Chandra, on the other hand, had an obvious tension and worked together well. The fact that they didn't want to admit it, and finally the pair confided in each other felt much more developed than the few days Sarkhan and Narset spent with each other even though it was probably roughly the same amount of time spent together. I mean, part of that might have genuinely been the difference between a foxhole romance and roadtrip buddy, but ultimately, there seemed to be genuine chemistry between Gideon and Chandra that was totally missing from Mister crazy pants and his bride to be.

    Essentially, I just don't see how Sarkhan could actually be in a relationship because he IS crazy. And not functionally either, but completely outside society crazy.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    Quote from Gutterstorm »
    Yeah, while I didn't get to read Godsend I'm pretty sure that Elspeth knew Daxos from a long time ago and her feelings for him developed long before the events of the Theros Block.

    Quote from Arwin_Rand »
    As much as I respect your position and authority as a storyline guru and lore keeper I disagree with you whole heartedly about seeing Narset/Sarkhan as a "hook up." From what I understand, Elspeth's feelings for Daxos were pretty clearly stated but it seemed like Narset and Sarkhan were just friends and personally really hope it stays that way.
    Well, I'm overstating things, but that's partly because there are a lot of people who don't view it as a friendship, but just... differently romantic since Sarkhan is such a mess.

    Elspeth encountered Daxos for something akin to 15 minutes right after his mom was stolen to the underworld. They treated the relationship rather more exaggerated as a starting point because of that. They did spend months together following Polukranos' defeat, but that doesn't mean they felt natural together. It was a VERY VERY forced relationship.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    Quote from Arwin_Rand »
    his... complicated relationship with Chandra.
    I'll be honest, I really wish they'd come back to that. I haven't been terribly happy with the random hookups we've been getting on our walkers as of late. (Narset/Sarkhan, Elspeth/Daxos)

    Quote from Vorthospike »
    Wow those people who called that Kytheon Iora was Gideon were right on the money.
    ... that was a thing? Geez.
    I have complicated feelings about that then. Because it just kind of fuels the crazier speculations and that doesn't do some of us any favors.
    Good on the people that worked that out though...
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    Quote from luminum can »
    So do we know where he gets his sural? Presumably it isn't on Theros or Bant, right?
    He got his sural from his mentor, who got it from his mentor, who was a planeswalker.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    Quote from Arwin_Rand »
    Man likes his Red/White aligned factions
    And yet he doesn't trust red magic. Not that it's not understandable why.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    Incidentally, I am deeply amused by the fact that he comes from Akros and is probably going to end up getting dropped into Akrasa during his tenure on Bant.

    Out of all of the Bantish nations, that one just feels most likely to me. Valeron already had Elspeth and Topa and Jhess just don't feel right to me. Could have ended up in Eos, but... I mean, come on, Akros and Akrasa is just too funny.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Gideon Jura is confirmed from Theros
    Quote from luminum can »
    They've known for long enough that Gideon was Theran that they included a reference to him on the flavor text of Desperate Stand. In retrospect it makes plenty of sense, in terms of both his physical appearance and his sensibilities.


    Actually, there's some distinction to be made with how Bant might have shaped him too since he's very much the kind to try to solo a raid/boss (forgive that pop-culture reference) to make sure that others aren't endangered.

    Also yes, that Gideon on Bant pic is wicked cool. And apparently they've wanted to entangle him with Bant since... what was it, 2010? 2011? Of course they didn't get the details exactly right back then, but they've wanted to put him there for a while.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Perkunas687 »

    So at the end of the day, I'm not going to nod and stroke my chin, saying one or the other dragonlord isn't that oppressive. They set into motion these new Laws which people were forced to obey (or die, from what I understand). I think they should be repulsive.
    I think that might come down to expectations informing how we look at the dragonlords vs how we interpret them from other sources.
    I mean, really, none of them are demanding virgin sacrifices, and in the past we've seen far far less reasonable dragonlords that basically all acted like Silumgar. (The Primeval Empire, for example)

    Now, I'm not defending them or refuting your point, but I think it might be an issue of perspective and past experience shaping how we regard their actions in comparison to others.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Jivanmukta »
    I like to think most planes are balanced within reason. But I think it's silly to assume an even split between the colors on every world.

    Following a certain logic, most worlds that we are familiar with should skew blue because of the amount of water vs land.

    That's kind of why this is a frustrating conversation to have, because there are so many ways to interpret the conversation that basically any lead can be taken to justify a stance. That's why I think it is just simpler to make the statement that worlds don't naturally skew towards a color without extreme circumstances present, such as the Sundering or an artificial start.

    And I still maintain that Ravnica would skew white since the major forces that maintain it (barring the Izzet) are white. Boros, Azorius, Orzhov, Selesnya, and Izzet are primarily responsible for maintaining the society that shapes the world.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Jivanmukta »
    Quote from Barinellos »

    Partly, I'll admit, I just don't want to deal with everyone trying to decide what color some world is every time we see a new one.


    Frankly, people being bad at planar understanding isn't a reason to overstate something. Chastise those who do it incorrectly.
    I think you underestimate how many people look at something like the Soul cycle and draw false conclusions and then propagate them. Heck, this entire discussion is a branch of the entire Ravnica is blue because... that we were dealing with earlier.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Ten Worlds...
    Quote from luminum can »
    complete with tragic backstory (dead girlfriend, even) driving him towards redemption. *yawn*

    I suspect it was probably his mentor rather than a paramour.
    Though it's now really suspect how much they're even going to pay attention to Laura's backstory for him, that backstory did include a mentor.
    Posted in: Storyline Speculation
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Vorthospike »
    I meant that Mirrodin originally had a sun for each color except green.
    Argentum didn't have any moons to begin with. Each of the moons sprang out of the core when it destabilized. Green was just the last one to happen (and from what we gather, it was overdue because of Memnarch)
    Given how often Magic goes to artificial or altered planes is seems like a mistake to exclude them when discussing whether or not a plane can have a bias toward one color or another.

    Since the shards of Alara shows that its possible for colors to severely suppressed so it hardly seems unreasonable that much smaller biases may exist on other planes.
    I find artificial data points skew the results and lead to biased conclusions about how the nature of the multiverse is supposed to function.
    Partly, I'll admit, I just don't want to deal with everyone trying to decide what color some world is every time we see a new one.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Vorthospike »
    Quote from Barinellos »
    No world, from a flavor standpoint, leans towards any one color.


    Bant? Jund? Esper? Naya? Grixis?
    Alara.
    The shards aren't natural and were insustainable, hence why the conflux happened in the first place.

    Mirrodin had giant flaming balls of mana orbiting around it to attest to just how ungreen it was.
    That isn't ungreen. It's not normal to us, but that doesn't make it ungreen. By the same measure, Pyrulea is a dyson sphere with its sun in the middle. That doesn't mean it isn't natural for that plane.

    As an aside, Mirrodin is a weird artificial world. It was built in a planar void that already existed, and that is why it appears to be stable.

    Serra's Realm leaned white.
    Also artificial and sought correction. When it couldn't be sustained, it collapsed.

    It's true that no known plane is exclusively one color or totally lacks any colors but lots of planes lean one direction or the other.
    Basically only artificial worlds inherently lean towards one color.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from sanmarco82 »
    Quote from Barinellos »

    No world, from a flavor standpoint, leans towards any one color.


    Really? New Phyrexia doesn't lean black? Weird
    You are confusing the world with the society built upon it. Argentum/Mirrodin/New Phyrexia, as a location, is every color. Like all worlds.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Verseau »
    I am really confused with the end of the story,
    as I understand, Ojutai forbid anyone about the knowledge of the Khan and Clan
    but then after Narset intentionally break the rule
    Ojutai just release Narset ? that's all ?

    on the past Ojutai killed Shu Yun and the entire Bloodfire monk because of it, and now he just tell Narset to look for more knowledge ???
    that's not making sense at all

    In fairness, he killed the ghostfire warriors, probably, because they'd all killed a dragon.
    And in some way, you have to look at the difference between the Jeskai and the Ojutai brood. The Jeskai were enemies. Narset was a member of his brood.

    Someone else pointed out, as well, that by encouraging her to leave, he effectively removes the threat she poses anyways.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Perkunas687 »
    If Narset 1.0 DID depart Tarkir before Sarkhan's timeslip...that would be more interesting. It may mean she went elsewhere and remained unscathed, or she went elsewhere but as soon as Sarkhan fiddled with the past, she just straight up disappeared, because she never existed as 1.0. Interesting.
    Doug has said that planeswalkers whose history are tied to Tarkir would not be exempt from the changes that may occur in their history. Narset 1.0 would have simply ceased to be where she was as if she had never been.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Since Narset is the topic of discussion, is there any particular reason why the original Narset didn't ignite her spark when she was cut by Zurgo? Most of the other walkers have had their sparks ignite under circumstances just as dire.
    No event is guaranteed to trigger the spark. It theoretically could have, but there aren't really any certainties in dealing with that kind of probability.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Elder Dragons, Hedrons, Nexus = Hype or Panic?
    Ugin now has a coterie of five Elder Dragons at his disposal. And a whole plane's worth of dragons. As well as the secret to time travelling via his nexus. Bolas believes Ugin is beaten. However, Ugin once healed, has the technology necessary to transport his Elder Dragons back to the age of the Elder Dragon War and prevent Bolas from ever coming into power.

    There are two major problems with this:
    The first is the fact that Ugin's Nexus is... his own dead body. It is likely that it was tied to a very specific moment of time rather than being capable of simply going back to a time of your choice.

    The second is the mending stripping Ugin of the kind of power that would take in the first place.

    They aren't going to pull this sort of Time Spiral silliness are there? Will we get a book to explain all of this?

    We won't get a book, just Uncharted Realms articles.
    But no, Doug has already made a pretty definitive statement saying they don't intend to use this to do anything outside Tarkir.
    http://dougbeyermtg.tumblr.com/post/107288733454/i-love-time-travel-stories-but-time-travel-in-the
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Narset Transcendent!?!?! How?
    That is an interesting perspective and I thank you for the observation. I agree that Ojutai had vengeance against the Jeskai for his race. Being a dragon I'm assuming that aggression, strength and violence are probably sewn into the core of his being. I am interested in his character moreso now because of this unique take on dragons (usually dragons are just vile bastards in Magic!)

    Well, I do think it adds a little more understanding to his actions pertaining to Narset if he has a strong streak of loyalty in him for his brood. An attack against them being met with severe retribution could very well fit into the white ideals of "justice".
    After taking on the Jeskai remnants, being very protective of them makes sense to me, even for the supposed heretics.

    All over, the Ojutai are a distinct and intriguing blend of the two colors.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Narset Transcendent!?!?! How?
    That I will agree with, good sir! I guess I just found it interesting that Ojutai and Narset smiled at each other at the end of the story. Perhaps Ojutai realized, before the fall of the khans, that he couldn't create the kind of balance HE thought was appropriate for the Jeskai unless the clans were revamped and dissenters against the new order had to be killed. It's probably why he decided to kill Shun Yu; because the Jeskai followed Shun Yu's teachings and he wanted them to follow his teachings instead.

    All in all, though obviously Ojutai has murdered probably thousands in his lifetime, I cannot believe a being that seeks knowledge, zen and who clearly respects his pupils to be a heartless monster.
    I, quite honestly, think there was a certain level of vengeance involved there. After all, the Jeskai had been murdering his brood for ages and really the only casualties of the coup were the Ghostfire warriors who... all earned their tattoos by killing a dragon.

    Mind, I'm not saying your reading of the situation is wrong, just that it might have been multifaceted.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Narset Transcendent!?!?! How?
    But Ojutai's teachings weren't lies, simply his version of history. At the end of the story her quest for knowledge led her to discover the truth of Tarkir which made her realize that Tarkir was a much stronger and better place because of Ojutai and perhaps the other dragon lords and that is why he smiled at the end of the uncharted realms; he wanted her NOT to follow a dragon but to find the dragon within herself, hence her transcendence.

    But her spark had already ignited at that point and she'd chosen to stay on Tarkir until she understood.
    It was the shock of learning that Ojutai had violently conquered the clan that triggered her spark.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from SteamMage »
    We don't know when Narset left Tarkir, just it was before Sarkhan appeared in Tarkir1.1. Could she fill the roles Sarkhan played in Bolas's plots in Alera and Zendikar?
    It's a possibility, but by the same measure, it'd be a little precipitous to speculate about that until we get a little more info.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Jenrik »
    Glad I'm not the only one who is wondering which plane was the first Narset planeswalked to when she awakened. If it was one full of knowledge, then I wonder if that plane was Blue-aligned, and perhaps was Ravnica?

    I do not think it was Theros as Kruphix would have probably noted her the way he had Elspeth (assuming Theros is an old enough plane and his existence as god of mysteries there accommodates these time frames). Meddling gods hardly seems like an appropriate setting. Innistrad - maybe in the Avacyn days to see what a plane ruled by a superior benevolent power, and not humans, is like. But it still feels unlikely. Kamigawa would be the most intriguing plane for her to visit IMO, especially if she ended up near Minamo or Oboro.
    Dragons of Tarkir takes place in the present.
    And this is PRECISELY the reason why I kept ranting against those stupid souls from M15.
    No world, from a flavor standpoint, leans towards any one color. Anything MaRo says about a world leaning towards a color is in regards to his position in design.
    For all we know, she could have turned up on Iquatana. But it doesn't actually matter because this is a line of speculation that people are building on false premises, the idea that a walker will subconsciously be drawn to some world rather than the relatively nearest one.

    And Ravnica isn't particularly any more full of knowledge than say... Dominaria or Kamigawa.

    Quote from Arwin_Rand »
    I just had another thought pop into my head. This continues the tradition we've had for awhile now of one of the first hints of a planeswalker spark is an unusual/prodigious affinity for magic. One of the few I've seen who didn't have it was Tibalt (and it shows) but even then, he may have been a prodigy just studying the wrong kind of magic.
    Gideon and Tezzeret aren't particularly gifted mages either.

    Also, I deleted some posts at the behest of the users (and posts pertaining to them)
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Skyknight »
    Well, I wouldn't deem autism as touchy a subject as gender identity, but I'll grant your point nonetheless...
    I'm probably being a little over-cautious, but I just feel it is safer to err on that side.

    I know perfectly well that the first plane, speaking in terms of probability, isn't necessarily going to be the kind of learning experience Narset needs. For every Kamigawa and Ravnica, there's also a Mercadia (comparatively placid, although who knows what she could get from the Ramosian tradition) and a Muraganda (and as I mentioned before, a Muraganda may just be what Ojutai's best-case scenario is). But I'm thinking in terms of popular fiction tendencies. I suppose that at least, Kamigawa or Ravnica is likely to be the first place Narset visits that gets lots of narrative attention. Emphasis on "likely".
    I think relative location in the multiverse plays a very large part of this too. For example, it seems astronomically unlikely that a walker would end up on say... Equilor, on their first walk. (because it is on the literal edge of the multiverse.)
    There is a weird non-euclidian geography to Dominia, but there are relative positions within it. We've seen some of those clusters before.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    Quote from Ucross »
    Elder Dragons of Dominia are still that. Elder Dragons of Tarkir are what they are. They are different, but they are of the same creature type.
    The problem is that they actually aren't the same creature type.
    Now, I'm not one that has been ranting about it, I've just expressed annoyance at how convoluted this makes the entire issue. And CLEARLY it is not cut and dry because people don't seem to grok the difference between the two natures of the elder dragons. Your statement alone proves that.

    Elder Dragons weren't just older dragons. They were a separate removed species.
    The new elder dragons are just older dragons who have accumulated power. This doesn't make them the same ilk as Nicol Bolas despite them having the same creature type.
    (and as an aside, Dominia is the ENTIRE MULTIVERSE, so making a distinction of Tarkir and Dominia is sort of like putting a cup into a larger cup)
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Arwin_Rand »
    Hmmmm. So not ADHD but autism (possibly high functioning Aspergers or something similar) You know, that's kind of cool in it's own way.

    So this block we've got a trans character and one on the autistic spectrum. Hmmmmmm. Good job to the author. I'd have never hit on that.

    I think that might have been reading into it a bit too much, but Death of the Author and everything.
    But even then, I really don't want to open this can of worms considering how the Alesha stuff went, so can we drop that please?
    Quote from oogahound »
    But it would be interseting to theorize, where would Narset go instinctivly? The plane has to embody seeking of knowledge, I don't think the plane has to be red, because think about it, just by GOING into another plane Narset would be red, as she'd be breaking the rules of her world. As such the Plane in my opinion would be a blue/white one. Or atleast one that lends itself to it.
    There is an intrinsic problem with making the assumption that the place a walker ends up instinctively HAS to correlate with their subconscious in some fashion. There's enough there that maybe you can talk about it, but there's also a LOT of proof contrary from the annals of history.
    So yeah, I don't think we should really speculate because it goes a step further than just speculation, but assumes something that isn't even necessarily true.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    Quote from TorelAschente »
    I apologize, I think using Bolas and his generation was a bad idea - just think of the question as a whole "What created the Old Elder Dragons species?" I thought the Neo-Elder-Dragon species could provide some insight on that, but seeing Creative's current stand on it as an age title for Tarkir, not so much now.
    As far as we can be aware, NATURE "created" the Elder Dragons.
    There is simply no reason to make the assumption that they are an artificial race.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from TorelAschente »
    I apologize for any errors I've made - I don't have a clear memory of the exact details of some of these aspects, so thanks for clearing the up, so I can refine what I think happened.

    Actually, since it's a map TO Zendikar, it establishes that whoever wrote the scroll must more or less be a planeswalker and since pretty much only planeswalkers would draw maps to planes, the map and manual together must be intentional. Although I wonder why would Nahiri need a map to Zendikar if she's definitely capable of returning to Zendikar without any issues - I would actually think Sorin would need the map more, relatively speaking.
    Well, there's a bit of a catch 22 because sorin apparently erased the memories of how to GET there from the planeswalkers involved. That little tidbit was in the Teeth of Akoum.
    EDIT: Actually being part of a set seems to imply the writer's interest at artifacts/knowledge of power
    Well, in fairness, we really don't have any clue what is on the rest of those scrolls.

    Quote from Quannage »
    You guys called it: Narset is indeed a Planeswalker. and She did indeed stumble across the old scrolls. Nice call on those.
    I'm just glad everyone can seem to accept the fact that it isn't the Narset from Khans and she in fact DIED back then. That was the biggest problem I had, is the thought she'd somehow be the same person.

    Quote from Skyknight »
    (I'm not so sure about the myojin, though)
    The Myojin most DEFINITELY have their own agendas.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    Quote from TorelAschente »
    We only know that 5 Elder Dragons survived the Dragon War. Which means we only know there were more Elder Dragons before that. We don't know what created the Elder Dragons - they may be an entirely different species from dragons, but nothing implied they didn't "evolve" from "regular" dragons through some unknown method / some unknown force did that to them.

    Well, it was a gray area before and normally it shouldn't be raised, but with the Dragonlords revealed to be Neo-Elder-Dragons, I thought it now exists as a possibility - I didn't state any specific methods, just implying Ugin achieved the same thing whoever created Bolas did, except on a "smaller scale", which the Mending may or may not be involved in.

    2 things blow this completely apart:
    1) The Elder Dragons of old did not evolve from regular dragons. Regular dragons DEVOLVED from them. It went the opposite direction from all sources we know.
    2) There is absolutely ZERO evidence that Bolas was "created". In fact, given the fact that he actually had siblings and cousins, that implies a strong biological component, meaning creation is NOT viable.

    The Tarkir dragons are, first and foremost, WEIRD anomalies. Every other instance, in the ENTIRE HISTORY of Magic has biological dragons. We can't try and pin correlation from an aberrant source. They are an exception, not a data point to be applied to anything else.

    And as a final note, Doug specified they are elders only because of age, and are NOT the same as the previous Elder Dragons.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from TorelAschente »
    does it mean a planeswalker's memories of Tarkir completely gets retcon'ed in their heads and they all now remember the actions they "did but never did" on Tarkir 1.1 instead of 1.0?
    Doug told us that this is what would happen.

    Since the Dragon Scroll has Ugin's knowledge and a map of Zendikar on it, unless Ugin wrote it himself (Which I personally think of it as unlikely, how big was the scroll in size?) it means whoever wrote the scroll has been to both Zendikar and Tarkir within this 1280 years. Nahiri never knew of Tarkir, Sorin and Sarkhan reached Tarkir and Zendikar respectively too late to have done that.
    No, it was clearly of Zendikari origins, but it was apparently written in Draconic, meaning that it pretty much had to be Ugin or someone copying Ugin's work to have written it.

    As a fun little thing though, the Dragon Scroll was part of a set (as can be seen in Fuel for the Fire) and its path was ALWAYS anchored on Zendikar.
    http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/stf/74
    This talks about some of the Dragon Scrolls history.

    Even if Ugin wrote the scroll, it must have been for Sorin or Nahiri at best, we all know Ugin doesn't want to release the Eldrazi, so why write the secret at all - only plausible reason was in case the Eldrazi really needed to be released and he wasn't around, at least Sorin and Nahiri could find a pyromancer planeswalker to attempt it with instructions. I can't imagine any one of those 3 "accidentally" losing the scroll or donating it to another plane as a museum piece, which is why I think the Dragon Scroll had nothing to do with the 3 planeswalkers.
    Of the two, it would probably be Nahiri... and quite frankly, it isn't looking like she's still around, so if it was in her possession, could have been part of the things lost after her disappearance.

    Considering that the Dragon Scroll was a lot less detailed, so it seems more likely that whoever wrote it ran out of paper, took out a map of Zendikar instead and scribbled on it vaguely copying the Shu Yun Scroll - Zendikar's environment changes all the time, so the accuracy of the map is not an indicator of whether it was a real map or a copied one. Of course, I don't think it was that much of a coincidence - whoever wrote it was conscious of the Hedrons on Zendikar.
    It isn't a map OF Zendikar... it's a map TO Zendikar.
    Check the webcomic "The Veil's Curse" and the Purifying Fire for those details.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Alesha, who Smiles at Death, a human transgender woman khan... wait WHAT?
    Alright, this is all getting a little heated, so I'm going to lock it for now and let everyone cool down. I might keep it locked just because this is a hot button topic and the answers have pretty much already been provided, but we'll see...
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions

    Yes, yes, I remember she didn't stole it *from* Tarkir, but can't it be the same scroll? I don't know, it just seems like this is all connected. The scroll she stole is the one that teaches Ghostfire, which is a Ugin spell. Ugin looks to be connected to the Jeskai somehow, due to all the cards showing that, and the whole Ojutai thing about "forgetting that knowledge" suggests that. Am I really just tying stuff that can't be tied together?

    Pretty much. It's important to remember that the Dragon Scroll wasn't just a "how to" manual for Ghostfire. It was also a map to Zendikar.
    Aside from that, the Jeskai Scroll didn't exist until the khans were threatened by the dragonbroods taking over the clans.

    And in fairness, Ugin seems pretty connected to the Temur as well as the Jeskai so...
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    Quote from Godec »
    I don't see anything about the Elder Dragon Wars remaining canon past the revisionist era over 15 years ago. Nicol Bolas' age, power, original duel, and losing to Umezawa are all I can find in canon for him as well, but nothing referencing the other ones, their importance, or even their names. Even the Dragons of Magic don't go into detail past the Primevals.

    The Revisionist era is a bit of a problem in itself, because while they changed many of the preconceived notions established during that time, if they didn't directly address it, it was still considered canon. Out of the revision, it was mostly to set the stage for the Urza & Weatherlight saga by better defining the Brother's War and Phyrexia. Everything else is still canon despite coming from that era.

    One could argue that they've changed Elder Dragon well well after the fact, except that still doesn't gel well because of the treatment they've given Bolas, which is built off of that history, though it doesn't reference his kin. Though he has mentioned they're all dead now and he killed some of them himself.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Not sure if anyone pointed this out already (probably yes), but Shu Yun's scroll is probably the Scroll of Ghostfire, the one Chandra steals from that monastery and that has Ugin's spell (Ghostfire) in it, right? The whole "Ojutai forces the Red out of Jeskai by making them forget/decline the bloodfire/ghostfire thing" points to that. Narset probably went after the scroll in the new timeline. This all is a giant red arrow pointing to Zendikar II, I think.
    Shu Yun's scroll didn't exist until Sarkhan changed time.

    I have been in the camp that Narset's spark ignited when Zurgo went to kill her. So being on a different plane would save her from the temporal changes of Tarkir. I'd imagine that Narset would come back to Tarkir eventually to find Taigam/Oujati leading "Jeskai", which would lead to major issues. And it make senses why she's called a "heretic" because she would be talking a time of Khans and when dragons are extinct. I dont think Mr. Oujati would appreciate that "blasphemy".
    Being off world doesn't shield one from a change in one's personal history. Any other walker who had been to Tarkir will have their memories altered too.

    Quote from Barinellos »

    How many times do I have to say it?
    Ugin is not confirmed as an Elder Dragon.
    I said it was headcanon. In my mind there's no way in hell Ugin looks as much like Bolas as he does without some shared lineage.
    The problem is, when you say that sort of thing in a public forum, you spread misinformation. I've had to debunk Ugin = Elder THREE TIMES in the past day. I don't want people propagating their headcanon. I understand where you're coming from, but there are people paying attention that will take the statement as the gospel truth.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    @Elder; I don't mind the use of the term. A bit of headcanon here, but they are elders because they are the progeny of Ugin, who is an elder. Works for me. Your mileage may vary.

    How many times do I have to say it?
    Ugin is not confirmed as an Elder Dragon.
    http://dougbeyermtg.tumblr.com/post/108287169989

    There, it says clearly, they hadn't talked about it and the elder in question was in regards to the age and not the race.

    If you meant Ugin is an elder Dragon and that is why they are that way? Doesn't get around the problem that Elder has specific connotations and this has caused problems with two separate definitions being attributed to it.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    Quote from Etllag »
    Also, agree on the flavor fail of zombie djinn. Djinn's don't really have corpses, do they? They live in lamps.
    No, they live in the air. The entire lamp thing was all of ONE djinn and it wasn't even the only one in that story.

    That being said, Tarkir's djinn and efreet are... weird. And we've NEVER gotten any actual explanation to them.
    Do only some zombies have souls?

    Only zombies who find somewhere safe to keep them.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    Quote from Akki_Akki »
    For Akki_Akki, Its fine. This one time Akki_Akki will personally let the Rule of Cool go by scott-free. Normally outrage but as long as they didn't expand beyond the now seven alive from two Elder Dragons, Akki_Akki feels it is fine. If more did get printed Akki_Akki will expect those even newer Elder Dragons to be printed ten years minimum from now and even then that would be way too soon for Akki_Akki's liking.
    Ugin was not an Elder Dragon:
    I just said that a page ago...
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    It's also certainly not elegant that the two true living Elder Dragons in the storyline, Ugin and Nicol Bolas, aren't referred to as elder dragons in their planeswalker cards, but these five are. Can't help but think there could have been other flavorful type lines that were less problematic.

    Ugin is not actually confirmed as an Elder Dragon.
    Doug talked about the fact that they hadn't really talked about it, and never came to a decision one way or another.
    http://dougbeyermtg.tumblr.com/post/108287169989/i-noticed-that-in-the-planeswalkers-guide-to-fate

    So, Ugin might be an elder Dragon, but it's not a given that he is an Elder Dragon.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    Quote from veXlaMtg »
    I thought Wizards were wiser but no, they just killed part of uniqueness of Nicol Bolas).
    They didn't really kill it so much as confused the matter. It's not elegant and I'm certainly miffed with the decision, but I'm finding it hard to be really mad. I am deeply deeply annoyed though.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    Considering that the Elder Dragon Wars lore is ancient and was practically a footnote even when it was created, I don't have a problem with this.

    This is different from Phyrexians and slivers. Phyrexia had a massive impact on the story and game, the slivers weren't unimportant, and both of them keep showing up even in Modern-era sets. Comparatively, the average 1994 player looking through Legends packs would have no idea of the relevance of the Elder Dragon Wars, and would not attribute any meaning to the word "Elder" other than a cool-seeming signifier.

    It honestly wouldn't be that bad if not for the fact that Nicol Bolas is still a thing and casts a very real shadow across the story.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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    posted a message on Ten Worlds...
    Quote from Flisch »
    I'm curious, what was the glimpse we got? I can't think of a card from the top of my head.
    Well, in terms of cards we had Ramosian Revivalist, but I was actually talking about the fact that Bolas and Leshrac battled in the skies of Mercadia above the oceans.

    As for the corruption, I was thinking of that because wasn't there a phyrexian hangar inside the mountain?
    I'm honestly not sure if the Phyrexians built the hangar or if that was something the Mercadians already had, in which case they were just renting space to the Phyrexians. I'm inclined to say that was the case, but I don't have any actual proof.
    Posted in: Storyline Speculation
  • 2

    posted a message on Dragons of Tarkir - Dragons: How Many, Abilities, Colors, etc
    Quote from kalkris »
    Quote from Barinellos »
    Quote from Mysential »
    it should actually be the dragons in FRF turned into the clan wedges that we have in Khans. They turn into elder dragons and become wedge dragons with more powerful abilities to make them mythic.
    That isn't how elder dragons work.


    I don't mean to snark, but...

    At least they aren't wedge (since they were confirmed as ally-color)? Grin

    ~Lil Kalki
    Yeah, still not how Elder works.
    http://dougbeyermtg.tumblr.com/post/112529400134

    They are, however, redefining what elder bloody means, which is irksome because now I'm going to have to explain the damned difference between what Bolas is and what THESE are.
    Posted in: Speculation
  • 0

    posted a message on ELDER DRAGONS ARE BACK!!!!! is that a good thing?
    Quote from HigherCalibur »
    The Elder Dragon Wars took place in Dominia, not Dominaria (a common mistake since they look so similar, also why the multiverse was renamed).
    And amusingly, that, while understandable, takes away from Dominaria's name since it literally means "Song of Dominia".
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • 0

    posted a message on Ten Worlds...
    Quote from Flisch »
    Also, would Mercadia still be on the table or has it been throuroughly corrupted by the Phyrexians in the meantime?

    We saw a glimpse, albeit a very tiny one, of Mercadia in Future Sight. It looked fine.
    The only real reason we have to think Mercadia was corrupted in any fashion was from Scourge and that has become increasingly dubious if not outright contradicted as time goes on.
    Posted in: Storyline Speculation
  • 2

    posted a message on Uncharted Realms Discussions
    Quote from Jivanmukta »
    Cities exist out of progress. They are W/U with a focus on U. As cities grow, people becomes less connected rather than more. So more Blue.
    Cities can't really function without infrastructure and rarely without laws. They are products of societies seeking structure, so I would say they lean more white rather than more blue.

    Of course Ravnica is a TERRIBLE example. Then again, all the souls are garbage flavorfully when you get right down to it. These are not worldsouls and trying to assign that is... misconceived at best.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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