Why are people going mental over the elder spell? Am I the only one who thinks that this will see approximately 0% constructed play?
It's extremely narrow and in almost best case scenario it reads "destroy target planeswalker". How often do you see yourself facing more than 1 walker? And even if all stars align and hell freezes and you get to cast it against 2-3 walkers AND it resolves, that means that a) all walkers have been activated at least 1 time b) 1-2 walkers have been activated several times over several turns, gaining their controller an accumulated advantage. Is resolving elder spell really gonna turn the tides at that point?
I imagine it would be a normal occurrence in a standard where walkers slot into decks as easily as replacing blink of an eye with Teferi, Time Raveler. When there's just one walker for you and one for an opponent, its already probably going to wind up a '2-for-1' with the effects of that loyalty factored in. But with a lot of decks running 6-8+ walker slots, it won't take the stars aligning.
The year is 2003
Wizards print a brand new set called "Mirrodin", with a novel focus on artifacts as a card type to flesh them out in ways they haven't been done before.
Then they include this card;
The MemnaspellBB
Sorcery (R)
Any number of target artifacts lose all abilities until end of turn, then destroy them. Choose an artifact you control. Put either two +1/+1 counters or two charge counters on it for each artifact destroyed this way.
basically what this feels like
How warping can a single card be? It would be one thing if it was just a hoser, but instead its an "I win on the spot" in any planeswalker vs planeswalker matchup, encouraging you to use walkers and beat your opponents walkers, thereby creating a degenerate arms race around one card.
They did make that card, it was called arcbound ravager
The year is 2003
Wizards print a brand new set called "Mirrodin", with a novel focus on artifacts as a card type to flesh them out in ways they haven't been done before.
Then they include this card;
The MemnaspellBB
Sorcery (R)
Any number of target artifacts lose all abilities until end of turn, then destroy them. Choose an artifact you control. Put either two +1/+1 counters or two charge counters on it for each artifact destroyed this way.
basically what this feels like
How warping can a single card be? It would be one thing if it was just a hoser, but instead its an "I win on the spot" in any planeswalker vs planeswalker matchup, encouraging you to use walkers and beat your opponents walkers, thereby creating a degenerate arms race around one card.
status//statue turn this into a pretty scary game ender. He comes down a turn cheaper than broodmate dragon, can combo with other superfriends, and should close a game out in 2-3 swings- while protecting himself with what's effectively a 1 sweeper for all attacking creatures so your opponent can't kill him or race him, all while he takes 2 spells to answer fully. That's a fine turn 5 play
What if wizards decided to be extra thematic and printed the elder spell only at the 'rarity' of a priceless treasure / masterpiece / etc, and it fits into the crunch at a number above 249? IE a double-secret super ultra mythic rare? That would preserve the number crunch normal setup, and explain Maro's evasive answer
This seems like a really dangerous card for multiple formats. Any time a land has only the drawback of colorless mana but serves as a mana dump that can produce card advantage or answer threats, you have to be wary. Wizards has usually stayed very timid on it, either trading 1:1 or having a very high cost like blighted cataract or arch of orazca. The opportunity cost of running engineered explosives or ratchet bomb is being down a card- this is a land. But this card is efficient enough that it can serve as a pseudo-sweeper as early as turn 4 to wipe 1 or 2 drops. That's a whole lot of hate against aggro from a land slot.
I feel like development might have prided themselves on avoiding it being oppressive for killing tokens or mox, and jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire by making it efficient enough to answer threats and produce card advantage with small investments. The very fact that you can topdeck this lategame when you have 10 lands already, and the next turn you'll be able to kill your choice of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 drops- that's so much better than ratchet bomb, and yet all it cost you in deckbuilding was mana fixing.
we could really use the full wordings on these cards to evaluate them. I've seen some people saying the green one either gets up to one from your graveyard and up to one from your library, and others say its just one from either. A lot of mistranslations seem to completely disagree on what the blue one does at all
That's certainly a more interesting use of the tribute punisher mechanic than anything wizards actually did with it. It creates a whole lot of choice in a multiplayer game. I'd be a bit worried about its utility in a 1v1 when its just used as either a 5/5 or 7/7 'defender', either of which could be busted at 3 mana in the right shell- it would be a very powerful blocker. I guess there's an argument that a '5/5 with a downside for 3' still wouldn't be oppressive in standard, so its not like some fling deck could reliably build around it. Maybe it could also say 'can't block creatures controlled by players that paid tribute to it'? But that makes it worse in EDH
Djinn's Lamp6
Artifact (R)
Djinn's Lamp enters the battlefield with three wish counters on it. T, tap an untapped creature you control and remove a wish counter from Djinn's Lamp: Create a 7/7 blue djinn creature token with flying, trample, first strike and haste. Exile that token at the beginning of the next end step.
It's one of the best cards in the set, but it does have the upkeep issue where it basically does nothing when it comes into play and only does something good if it survives to the next turn. That's always something to consider when analyzing these cards. However, turn 4 landing a 4/5 flier is pretty nasty without having some kind of answer. A lot of creatures are only 4/4 at best as 4 drops.
yeah its got a weakness in that its 'slow', you can generate obscene advantage over time, but only after untapping, only with topdeck luck or manipulation effects. But that's a weakness mitigated by its low mana cost, and having such a relevantly sized body. Being 4/5 means it dodges a lot of removal like lava coil, shivan fire, etc. And 4/5 flying also means it blocks very effectively against a bunch of threats like phoenix, loxodon, vanguard, marshal, growth-chamber, eetc etc. And the 4/4 amass from enter the god-eternals, if that's relevant. And its god-clause both gives it protection even against the less conditional removal, even exiles like contempt, and also combos nicely with the same topdeck manipulation effects that work with its ability to get it back faster. Being a flying threat makes it well suited to taking down planeswalkers for all the same reasons wizards intentionally printed Tomik as a pushed beater.
so I dunno, maybe if the format is very fast. But even if you cast it turn 4, then turn 5 drew a land- its still a reasonably good threat
Maybe I'm not as desensitized to power creep as a normal person, but this just like it has potential to be format warping.
Its a 4/5 with evasion, self-protection and repeatable card advantage and repeatable ramp, for 4. In blue.
Its like the modern day take on a superman blue finisher. Even if it misses half of your triggers- just one cantrip already means its replaced itself. If you're casting hieroglyphic illumination in modern or chemisters insight in standard, that's already a big hit. It might not play well with counters, but it plays pretty well with reactive answers like vraska's contempt, explosion, blink of an eye, cast down, lava coil, entrancing melody, dispersal, etc.
just going by top 8's numbers here;
of the top 60 creature cards in standard, this hits the top 7 (krasis, pterodon, llanowar, loxodon, chainwhirler, tithe, jadelight)
but it misses hostage taker, wildgrowth,
and conditionally misses bodyguard, vanguard, djinn, snubhorn, rekindling, lavarunner, both drakes, incubation druid, hunted witness, deputy, trostani, brontodon, thorn lieutenant
so kind of reliable against the top threats, and only two hard whiffs on hostage taker / wildgrowth, but for 16/60 isn't a hard answer
also they weren't high enough but it misses kitesail, lazav, shalai, archway angel, aurelia, bell-haunt, tocatli honor-guard,
findbroker, priest of forgotten gods, electrostatic field and tajic protects his buddies
of the new cards being spoiled, it doesn't do anything against the huge number of planeswalkers, won't kill tomik, augur of bolas, or dreadhorde arcanist / roalesk / krenko (doubt that's relevant),
In modern, the Counters Company deck has already started to shift towards Eldritch Evolution, and Neoform doesn't do much less than Evolution as they usually are looking for 2 drops anyways.
Neoform any creature into a Snapcaster Mage to recast any instant / sorcery you need from your graveyard is cool too.
In fairness reckless abandon isn't in modern.
2 mana for 4 damage is something to be very wary of, especially with so many bolts in a format. As fireblast and goblin grenade show, the cost doesn't matter when it closes out the game. Of course, this is not real close to either
heh, at least the lack of enemy-colored odyssey filterlands stops this from being a turn 1 win with the right magical christmasland hand. Its still a more reliable turn 2 combo than eldritch evolution for the same deck, just a harder mana cost. Because if you could start the game with an UG filterland, simian spirit guide, allosaurus rider, neoform and any 2 green cards in hand- that lets you fetch griselbrand, who digs for nourishing shoal and worldspine wurm...
of course, manamorphose does it, but now you're in like the special magical elves deepest core of christmasland
I'd have to think Chancellor of the Tangle is part of this Christmas season. He gets T1 mana that's already on-color for this, and he's a green card you won't need anymore making it an ideal pitch candidate for Rider.
oh right. He's also the magic minimum number for fat green cards to pitch to nourishing shoal to draw 7
heh, at least the lack of enemy-colored odyssey filterlands stops this from being a turn 1 win with the right magical christmasland hand. Its still a more reliable turn 2 combo than eldritch evolution for the same deck, just a harder mana cost. Because if you could start the game with an UG filterland, simian spirit guide, allosaurus rider, neoform and any 2 green cards in hand- that lets you fetch griselbrand, who digs for nourishing shoal and worldspine wurm...
of course, manamorphose does it, but now you're in like the special magical elves deepest core of christmasland
The lack of self-exile on this card demonstrates that wizards thought about how much harder it is to break this with recursion than say Vannifer. With vannifer pod all you needed was untap effects to chain infinitely into a combo the turn she activates off basically anything. With this, you need to pay 2 mana at each step, so even if you recur eternal witness -> archaeomancer -> mnemonic wall -> murasa greenwarden -> ??? -> artisan of kozilek -> "stop he's already dead", its a bunch of mana to pay.
I imagine it would be a normal occurrence in a standard where walkers slot into decks as easily as replacing blink of an eye with Teferi, Time Raveler. When there's just one walker for you and one for an opponent, its already probably going to wind up a '2-for-1' with the effects of that loyalty factored in. But with a lot of decks running 6-8+ walker slots, it won't take the stars aligning.
Did it involve donate and mindslaver?
Wizards print a brand new set called "Mirrodin", with a novel focus on artifacts as a card type to flesh them out in ways they haven't been done before.
Then they include this card;
basically what this feels like
How warping can a single card be? It would be one thing if it was just a hoser, but instead its an "I win on the spot" in any planeswalker vs planeswalker matchup, encouraging you to use walkers and beat your opponents walkers, thereby creating a degenerate arms race around one card.
I feel like development might have prided themselves on avoiding it being oppressive for killing tokens or mox, and jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire by making it efficient enough to answer threats and produce card advantage with small investments. The very fact that you can topdeck this lategame when you have 10 lands already, and the next turn you'll be able to kill your choice of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 drops- that's so much better than ratchet bomb, and yet all it cost you in deckbuilding was mana fixing.
Djinn's Lamp 6
Artifact (R)
Djinn's Lamp enters the battlefield with three wish counters on it.
T, tap an untapped creature you control and remove a wish counter from Djinn's Lamp: Create a 7/7 blue djinn creature token with flying, trample, first strike and haste. Exile that token at the beginning of the next end step.
yeah its got a weakness in that its 'slow', you can generate obscene advantage over time, but only after untapping, only with topdeck luck or manipulation effects. But that's a weakness mitigated by its low mana cost, and having such a relevantly sized body. Being 4/5 means it dodges a lot of removal like lava coil, shivan fire, etc. And 4/5 flying also means it blocks very effectively against a bunch of threats like phoenix, loxodon, vanguard, marshal, growth-chamber, eetc etc. And the 4/4 amass from enter the god-eternals, if that's relevant. And its god-clause both gives it protection even against the less conditional removal, even exiles like contempt, and also combos nicely with the same topdeck manipulation effects that work with its ability to get it back faster. Being a flying threat makes it well suited to taking down planeswalkers for all the same reasons wizards intentionally printed Tomik as a pushed beater.
so I dunno, maybe if the format is very fast. But even if you cast it turn 4, then turn 5 drew a land- its still a reasonably good threat
Its a 4/5 with evasion, self-protection and repeatable card advantage and repeatable ramp, for 4. In blue.
Its like the modern day take on a superman blue finisher. Even if it misses half of your triggers- just one cantrip already means its replaced itself. If you're casting hieroglyphic illumination in modern or chemisters insight in standard, that's already a big hit. It might not play well with counters, but it plays pretty well with reactive answers like vraska's contempt, explosion, blink of an eye, cast down, lava coil, entrancing melody, dispersal, etc.
And good lord, the amount of value this gets out of enter the god-eternals.
of the top 60 creature cards in standard, this hits the top 7 (krasis, pterodon, llanowar, loxodon, chainwhirler, tithe, jadelight)
but it misses hostage taker, wildgrowth,
and conditionally misses bodyguard, vanguard, djinn, snubhorn, rekindling, lavarunner, both drakes, incubation druid, hunted witness, deputy, trostani, brontodon, thorn lieutenant
so kind of reliable against the top threats, and only two hard whiffs on hostage taker / wildgrowth, but for 16/60 isn't a hard answer
also they weren't high enough but it misses kitesail, lazav, shalai, archway angel, aurelia, bell-haunt, tocatli honor-guard,
findbroker, priest of forgotten gods, electrostatic field and tajic protects his buddies
of the new cards being spoiled, it doesn't do anything against the huge number of planeswalkers, won't kill tomik, augur of bolas, or dreadhorde arcanist / roalesk / krenko (doubt that's relevant),
Unlike eldritch evolution, neoform says it has to be equal to the manacost (+1)
= cmc +1
instead of
<= cmc +2
so you can't turn any creature into a snapcaster mage
2 mana for 4 damage is something to be very wary of, especially with so many bolts in a format. As fireblast and goblin grenade show, the cost doesn't matter when it closes out the game. Of course, this is not real close to either
oh right. He's also the magic minimum number for fat green cards to pitch to nourishing shoal to draw 7
of course, manamorphose does it, but now you're in like the special magical elves deepest core of christmasland
The lack of self-exile on this card demonstrates that wizards thought about how much harder it is to break this with recursion than say Vannifer. With vannifer pod all you needed was untap effects to chain infinitely into a combo the turn she activates off basically anything. With this, you need to pay 2 mana at each step, so even if you recur eternal witness -> archaeomancer -> mnemonic wall -> murasa greenwarden -> ??? -> artisan of kozilek -> "stop he's already dead", its a bunch of mana to pay.