He is probably referring to Boros Charm, Golgari Charm, Rootborn Defense, any Flash/Haste creatures, and to an extent Voice of Resurgence, as answers to Supreme Verdict.
In the current UW build, only 4 cards can hit Stormbreath: Verdict, Elspeth, Celestial Flare, and Ratchet Bomb. Verdict is the best, but that's against every creatures. Elspeth is a 2-of but cost 6 mana. She does come in after Stormbreath if UW is on the play however. Celestial Flare is only good if you catch him attack with one creature. And Ratchet Bomb, well...if you kill a Dragon with it, you are probably winning the game.
I ordered 7 Ashiok from Strikezone at 18.32 each today through TCG because of the positive coverage at SCG Worcester. Later, I received a full refund because they oversold. However, they have 4 listed on their main website at 25 each.
I messaged them back asking if they will honor the price for those 4. Let's see what they have to say.
This is a better explanation than I could come up with.
But yeah, I think he just seems rather durdly compared to Domri, who is just puregasoline in the right build.
Mostly I think I'm still just scratching my head they released another PW so soon..wtf R&D?
I think $5 is extremely unkind though, even so. No way he's going that low. He's not Tybalt or something.
While I do think $5 is a bit harsh, I just don't see him played at all in Standard while Domri is still around. Ral is barely $8, Gideon is less than that. Xenagos will probably be similar to those 2.
It doesn't do anything RG wants to do, aka remove blockers or most importantly, generate card advantage. What does Xenagos's plus ability do exactly? What are you ramping to? I rather play more threats and dictate the tempo. And he is terrible against Aggro. If Craterhoof Behemoth is still in the format, then I'm more impressed with him. But right now, he is just not good enough.
On another note I told a kid flat out he was being ripped off trading his elspeth for an erebos but he would not listen. his friend opens two thoughtseizes, declares theyre1 garbage and then refuses to trade saying were all there to rip him off. This is after we tell him those are not garbage and worth about 22 each.
A fool and his money are soon .... you know the rest.
Anyway, Elspeth will be a $15 Planeswalker once it is all said and done. She's a 2-of in Midrange/Control shell and from a first set.
I vastly prefer the Lorwyn art for Thoughtseize, and have been looking for a good time to pick up my set of foils now that the reprint is suppressing the price.
Obviously, the new version will be opened en-masse, and the non-foil Lorwyn versions have and will continue to see downward pressure, but what about the Lorwyn Foils?
They've come down some from $150, and I have a chance to buy a mint one at $110. Does that sound like a good price? Do you guys see the original foil maintaining a good premium?
Thanks
If you don't buy it at $110, send him my way.
Remember, these are still highly desirable due to their usefulness in Vintage and Legacy, where original foils are the bomb.
Explain why prior to the reprint hallowed fountain was 35 dollars then. Supply dries up for the shocklands since they're out of print, more players are being brought in by theros and similarly by the next fall set, and people getting into modern still need the shocklands sure they might not need a 40 set or something but they will need multiples of a specific type. EDH props up the shocklands as well, where many people run the shocklands.
Ravnica was released 8 years ago. The print run for Ravnica was probably 2.5 to 3 times as small as RTR. It was also a bigger set than the current "big set" that Return to Ravnica was. There were virtually no supply of shocks once Modern was announced as a format.
Zendikar fetches at rotation were sub 10 dollars. Now look where they are pricewise. Zendikar sold pretty damn well, not as well as RTR but that's just it most fall sets are outselling the last fall sets as more people get into magic.
Zendikar was released 4 years ago. Wizards released a statement saying that for the past 4 years, the player base increased at an annual rate of 25%. That means a 144%(!!) increase in the player base, or the current player base is almost 2.5 times as big as back then.
You also can't compare the price of Zendikar at rotation and now since Modern didn't exist back in rotation. The demand for Zendikar back then was consisted of Legacy, cube, EDH and a format that only the most competitive players were playing: the now-dead Extended.
Zendikar also saw a huge spike when it was announced that Modern Masters were only up to Alara block. SCG singlehandedly increased the prices on these overnights. I believe that they will get here eventually, but SCG just sped up the process.
However, before I begin to dissect your arguments even further, I just want to make sure that we are talking about the same thing. My point is that the shocklands will drop upon their rotation from Standard. They will still rise in the near future however.
I believe that your point is that these shocks will keep rising, even after they rotate from Standard. Let me know if that is a correct statement.
I've been picking some up lately in anticipation of them going up. They aren't going down until they are reprinted...and that will be an eternity away in terms of MTG at least 3 years. They will easily hit 20 by next fall.
Want to take a bet on that? Say $500? $1000?
People, please stop thinking that Shocks will go up after they rotate from Standard. There are soooooooooooooo many of them and most decks don't even play that many shocks.
From the decklist samples in the coverage of GP Detroit:
5 in UWR
2 in Redless Jund
4-6 in Jund
4 in Melira Pod
6 in Kiki-Pod
4 in Twin
1 in Tron
7 in Scapeshift
5 in Burn
4 in Hexproof
0 in Affinity
3 in Living End
So for those people that think that shocks will rise AFTER their rotation to Standard, demand has to be greater than supply. Please tell me where the new-found demand is coming from, as Modern/casual demand is tiny compare to Standard demand.
EDIT - I want to make it clear that I think the shocks will go up in the intermediate term (aka 4-7 months), and then slowly going down prior to rotation.
This. Cards that I can't move quickly, I will sell them pretty cheap. Cards that are in high demand and I know I'm one of the few people that have them, I will ask for something closer to TCG Mid than TCG Low.
Shocks will not go up to $20. $15 is definitely doable for the most popular ones though. The fact that many of the RTR staples have began to increase significantly (Desecration Demon, Detention Sphere, Jace AoT for examples) while shocks have barely budged in these last 3 weeks does not bode well for them to spike. Rotation is only 2.5 weeks away and everyone knows about this, and yet, shocks haven't spiked at all, only seeing gradual increases.
For comparison, Clifftop Retreat went from $5.50 to $7.50 from August to mid September. Woodland Cemetery spiked past $11-12. Temple Garden went from $11.70ish to $12.80ish in the same time frame. Stomping Ground is flat. Hallowed Fountain went up 50 cents. Sacred Foundry went from $10.60 to $12. Increasing? Yes. Spiking? No.
Furthermore, shocks are indeed playable in Modern, but usually 7-8 max, with most decks using 4-6. That's not a recipe for a "spike" post rotation. This is a classic case of "oh, they are used in Modern so they will go up post rotation". If anything, after they rotate from Standard, shocks will plummet hard and be lower than when they are in Standard. Most Modern players only need a few to play at any one time, and most serious tournament players already have their 40.
He is probably referring to Boros Charm, Golgari Charm, Rootborn Defense, any Flash/Haste creatures, and to an extent Voice of Resurgence, as answers to Supreme Verdict.
I messaged them back asking if they will honor the price for those 4. Let's see what they have to say.
While I do think $5 is a bit harsh, I just don't see him played at all in Standard while Domri is still around. Ral is barely $8, Gideon is less than that. Xenagos will probably be similar to those 2.
$5. It can't compete with Domri in Standard.
A fool and his money are soon .... you know the rest.
Anyway, Elspeth will be a $15 Planeswalker once it is all said and done. She's a 2-of in Midrange/Control shell and from a first set.
If you don't buy it at $110, send him my way.
Remember, these are still highly desirable due to their usefulness in Vintage and Legacy, where original foils are the bomb.
Ravnica was released 8 years ago. The print run for Ravnica was probably 2.5 to 3 times as small as RTR. It was also a bigger set than the current "big set" that Return to Ravnica was. There were virtually no supply of shocks once Modern was announced as a format.
Zendikar was released 4 years ago. Wizards released a statement saying that for the past 4 years, the player base increased at an annual rate of 25%. That means a 144%(!!) increase in the player base, or the current player base is almost 2.5 times as big as back then.
You also can't compare the price of Zendikar at rotation and now since Modern didn't exist back in rotation. The demand for Zendikar back then was consisted of Legacy, cube, EDH and a format that only the most competitive players were playing: the now-dead Extended.
Zendikar also saw a huge spike when it was announced that Modern Masters were only up to Alara block. SCG singlehandedly increased the prices on these overnights. I believe that they will get here eventually, but SCG just sped up the process.
However, before I begin to dissect your arguments even further, I just want to make sure that we are talking about the same thing. My point is that the shocklands will drop upon their rotation from Standard. They will still rise in the near future however.
I believe that your point is that these shocks will keep rising, even after they rotate from Standard. Let me know if that is a correct statement.
Want to take a bet on that? Say $500? $1000?
People, please stop thinking that Shocks will go up after they rotate from Standard. There are soooooooooooooo many of them and most decks don't even play that many shocks.
From the decklist samples in the coverage of GP Detroit:
5 in UWR
2 in Redless Jund
4-6 in Jund
4 in Melira Pod
6 in Kiki-Pod
4 in Twin
1 in Tron
7 in Scapeshift
5 in Burn
4 in Hexproof
0 in Affinity
3 in Living End
So for those people that think that shocks will rise AFTER their rotation to Standard, demand has to be greater than supply. Please tell me where the new-found demand is coming from, as Modern/casual demand is tiny compare to Standard demand.
EDIT - I want to make it clear that I think the shocks will go up in the intermediate term (aka 4-7 months), and then slowly going down prior to rotation.
This. Cards that I can't move quickly, I will sell them pretty cheap. Cards that are in high demand and I know I'm one of the few people that have them, I will ask for something closer to TCG Mid than TCG Low.
Fixed that for you.
For comparison, Clifftop Retreat went from $5.50 to $7.50 from August to mid September. Woodland Cemetery spiked past $11-12. Temple Garden went from $11.70ish to $12.80ish in the same time frame. Stomping Ground is flat. Hallowed Fountain went up 50 cents. Sacred Foundry went from $10.60 to $12. Increasing? Yes. Spiking? No.
Furthermore, shocks are indeed playable in Modern, but usually 7-8 max, with most decks using 4-6. That's not a recipe for a "spike" post rotation. This is a classic case of "oh, they are used in Modern so they will go up post rotation". If anything, after they rotate from Standard, shocks will plummet hard and be lower than when they are in Standard. Most Modern players only need a few to play at any one time, and most serious tournament players already have their 40.