Also, the options you mention are solid, but I'm not sure how I'd fit them in, to say nothing about them being better than the options I have in already. For example, Teleportation Circle seems like a better option than any listed above, to say nothing about Kaya, Ghost Assassin, which seems to be as good as it gets here.
I second Ephemerate. 2 mana cheaper is so much especially to hold up as protection. Maybe your defensive dudes could take a more synergystic role. Wall of Omens + Ephemerate is solid early game card draw. You lose flying, but you have other defensive threats that make up for it.
Good points/thoughts. Still difficult, as all are great options
Would think Ephemerate is better than Acrobatic Maneuver. I get that you would lose a cantrip effect, but you get to double the ETB triggers, and since the rebound happens on your next upkeep, the timing works very well with Kardur, Doomscourge.
That is an excellent suggestion. Damn, that's tough. 2 ETB vs 1 and a card....
I think there are a few ways to abuse Kardur, Doomscourge, but I'm thinking the direction of this deck idea is to abuse the ETB ability. Since ETB is what is to be abused, I paired him with Red Dragon.
Idea is painfully simple: 10 early game, defensive creatures, then get at least 1 of those 2 ETB creatures onto the battlefield, then blink the crap out of them. Note that the 10 defensive creatures can be most anything, I just vastly prefer creatures that can block enemy flying creatures.
Kaya, Ghost Assassin looks to pair painfully well with either of the 2 ETB creatures, as it limits options as to deal with them; they go to exile until your next upkeep. This should render any sorcery response (e.g., Vindicate, Maelstrom Pulse, etc.) moot and then forces an opponent to use an instant based card to deal with the creature. Of course, they can try and go after Kaya, Ghost Assassin directly, but that tends to be more difficult to deal with than, say, an enchantment or artifact. This is why there are only 2 copies of Teleportation Circle included. Granted, I'd be happy to go to 4 here, but I don't see the need, to say nothing about having the room.
This deck has 8 instant-based flicker cards, one of which (i.e., Long Road Home) can actually function as a defensive card in a pinch. Further, these 8 Flicker cards can be used to counter spot/Instant removal cards as well, further helping with card economy, as well as triggering the ETB again. Granted, multiple instances of Kardur, Doomscourge triggered ability is meaningless, but it still provides some benefit in many situations.
I rationalize that I will hit all my opponents the first time I play with of the 2 ETB cards and, given the carnage that will surely follow, I won't have to drain everyone for the full 20 pts of life, as Kardur, Doomscourge just has to be funny as hell.
Blasphemous Act stands on its own in case the board gets out of control, but it stacks very nicely with Fall of Cair Andros. If I'm able to also have Chandra's Ignition in my hand, I have a shot at an immediate game-ending bomb.
I almost included Wall of Hope to include creatures that stack nicely with Blasphemous Act, but I opted for Rage Nimbus instead, as I wanted an early-game defensive flyer that has a solid power in case I need to cast Chandra's Ignition, but remain in thought.
I'm purposely attempting to not include cards that give my spells Lifelink or damage opponents directly (say Boros Reckoner), as I'm trying to not be obvious and have used it plenty in the past. I'm currently running 16 creatures that stack nicely with a damage-sweeper and those stack with Blazing Sunsteel too.
Lyra Dawnbringer is legendary, so you might not want 4 in the deck. pearl medallion would be useful to help ramp out angels. defense grid may be helpful to prevent some instant speed spells. Herald of the Host may be useful to push some damage through
Thanks
Not sure what to cut though. Agree on Lyra, but I also don't expect her to stay on the battlefield too long either.
Been messing around with an angel deck for MP. I think we've all done an Angel deck at one time or another, but I tried to update with some newer cards. Also, I'm tailoring this deck to deal with my meta, which loves Instant based defensive cards when an opponent attacks.
In my/our MP format, Wall of Shards drawback is almost moot, as we don't care too much about our adjacent opponents/they aren't part of the win condition. As such, giving life to them can often be advantageous. I'd have no issues, however, swapping with, say, Flumph.
All of the creatures pretty much turn into beasts once High Alert and/or Arcades, the Strategist comes online. And since my opponents will simply take either out when they can, I'm opting to run the full compliments of 4 each, as the entire deck pretty much depends on either to turn everything online.
Meekstone also seems like a perfect fit here. Only Towering Titan looks to be a potential issue, but I rationalize I can get around that, if needed, with High Alert.
Towering Titan looks hilarious in this deck, as he not only should be beastly when cast, but also gives a win-con.
I'd prefer to have a little more removal, but the creatures look to command the board, so I'm not too worried, to say nothing about the fact that I struggle to find the room.
Been away a little while, but happy to see the forums are back in some shape or form. I believe I recognize some of the old timers under a different name...
I played a variant of the following deck recently and it was an absolute hoot (note that my MP format (see sig) is a tad different than FFA MP, but it's definitely still MP.).
I tend to think the versions that run UW Defenders are the better way to go in these types of decks, as once the switch goes through, the creatures become beastly (i.e., Wall of Denial), but I opted to try one that didn't run Defenders:
Funny part is, it really isn't much of a "multiplayer" deck. About the only card that could be considered such is Meekstone, but, paradoxically, that's likely the first card I would cut from it.
Why?
Because when I played the other version, I just wanted more creatures on the board. Not only does switching their PT make it such that with either (in this case) Assault Formation or Doran, the Siege Tower in play, they become incredible bargains. Once you load one or even two with Slagwurm Armor, opponents are forced to use their best removal spells on creatures that aren't exactly high-mana cost creatures. Debating hard if Vampire Envoy should take Aerial Responder place
I usually run 23 land plus one Sol Ring (total of 24 "Land"), but in this deck, only 1 card (4 in the whole deck) costs 5 mana. All others are 4 CMC or less, hence, I reduced my "land" base to 22. In most of my GB decks, I run Maelstrom Pulse, but I am absolutely in love with Status // Statue atm.
Garruk Wildspeaker is primarily included to give my creatures trample, but obviously has a lot of other functionality. This could be any number of great artifacts that can (ultimately) give my creatures trample, like Gruul War Plow but left Garruk in for the time being.
I have another version of this type of deck that looks to be a hoot as well. There are so many cool ways to exploit swapping P/T lately...
Yeah, I can do a 4-color deck. I have (& my playgroup uses) the old-school dual lands, plus fetch lands, etc. so doing that isn't too bad. I guess I just tend to shy away from 4-color decks. If you were building a deck around her, would you try and abuse her in the manner I was toying with above?
Also, and, perhaps, more important, I'm really not sure how to carve out the rest of the deck. While I like a few tricks with her, I want the deck to succeed without her, as my playgroup isn't stupid and she'll likely get roasted fast. But, it still should be funny for the first few minutes
Another card that pays homage to the Xbox version of the game.
Looking for another version of a deck that has some fun with this card. It may or may not be a win-con, but it's damn funny playing this for 2, early in a game and little to no ramp. Cards like Forbidden Orchard seem like a layup to include, but I'm in thought about a current version of a deck having some fun with the big guy.
I tend to think that, at least for my meta (see signature below for more details), it might be okay to bring some targeted removal/enchantments to protect myself from my win-con opponents (i.e. in our meta, seldom to adjacent opponents attack you) in the early game. I'd need several, similar to the number of early game creatures I might otherwise play.
As such, I was thinking of playing adding U or W to G, as they have some solid, cheap, enchantments that can protect me early in the game. There are a verifiable boatload of cards that might work with this idea, like, say, Spirit Link, but others like, Temporal Isolation, Pacifism, or Kirtar's Desire also can protect me early game while not playing any creatures to defend myself. Or, if considering U, something like, Backfire, Curse of Chains, or, say, Ice Cage might work well.
In my mind, the two best cards noted above are likely Spirit Link or Vampiric Link, as they can double as either early creature defense, played on enemy creatures, or on my own creatures, if the situation warrants
What do you think? Solid idea or meh? How do you abuse the big guy in your decks? The deck can go in any direction, I'm indifferent. I just want to have some fun playing with this card
I'm late to the party as well (& rusty as all heck too! Been playing too much CoC for a while now)
In any case, it's always hard for me to not (at least) splash R in these decks, as cards like Vent Sentinel can get very scary if they get going.
In your original deck, I loved the inclusion of Wall of Souls, as he is often a, "GO AWAY!" for ground attackers into you, which is hard to not be a good thing. Unfortunately, it now appears you are not running R or B.
Since your playing U, one, "GO AWAY" wall might be Wall of Frost. Wall of Tears is a sweet, "GO AWAY!" card, but he doesn't have the resiliency that Wall of Frost does, nor does he become as beastly once your combo card comes into play
Dazzling Ramparts is also potentially nice. Tapping a creature can be helpful
I've found that Perimeter Captain to be a really nice inclusion. He's cheap, early (ground) defender and is another, "GO AWAY!" card that makes your opponents pause before attacking you. For me, this is almost an auto-include. But including, say, Wall of Essence can also work
Drift of Phantasms can be really sweet, especially if your deck is loaded with 3 cmc cards.
If running U and W, I struggle to not include Plumeveil. Flash is usually nasty here, results in an instant death of...some creature and it blocks Flying. I don't know your meta, but that would be a red flag in mine (i.e. can't block flying creatures).
Another red flag would be that you have no way to deal with potentially nasty creatures/artifacts/enchantments. No need to include, say, Oblivion Ring (Detention Sphere is even better here) or Beast Within or whatever?? You mention it as a possibility above and my answer, especially in my meta, is a resounding yes. Your suggestions, however, cover a wide range of ways to deal with those threats
Along those lines, how can you not be playing with Wall of Denial here? That thing is beastly and, again, blocks (& attacks) Flying. An "8/8" Flying, Shrouded creature for 3 is just...wow
Or, how about even Hover Barrier? He's strictly worse than Wall of Denial here, but still nothing to sneeze at
Since you are running G, is Tree of Redemption a possibility? That can be beastly and, perhaps, save your bacon in time of need.
I'm actually not a fan of the direction of the deck. It appears you want to ramp into fatties and/or make them Unblockable, but why? In my mind, I'd slow-roll at the beginning, playing defensive cards that are cheap, but nice and defensive. But, once you get one of your "Toughness switch from Power" cards onto the battlefield, you get to abuse the cheap cards noted above and they they automatically become something to seriously recon with. I played a version way back when (when Doran, the Siege Tower was the only/primary way to do this) & I had to keep him in play. That particular game swung back and forth as he was in play. Here, however, you have a boatload of solid options to keep that going. The drawback is that more than 1 isn't cumulative, but that's okay, it's usually important enough to have extra, as those cards will get torched once people see what you are up to.
Further, if it were me, I'd splash a few Kessig Wolf Run and just Hulk-smash through people. In that way, you really don't need a lot of ramp, can drop a bunch of your search cards (i.e. I'd just run 4, say, Rhystic Study or Mystic Remora or heck, even Concentrate and call it a day from a card-draw perspective) and tighten the deck up. Hopefully, this helps
In my mind, it's a combination of the two.
Also, the options you mention are solid, but I'm not sure how I'd fit them in, to say nothing about them being better than the options I have in already. For example, Teleportation Circle seems like a better option than any listed above, to say nothing about Kaya, Ghost Assassin, which seems to be as good as it gets here.
Good points/thoughts. Still difficult, as all are great options
4 Juvenile Gloomwidow
4 Banewhip Punisher
4 Obelisk Spider
4 Soul Snuffers
4 Kulrath Knight
4 Carnifex Demon
4 Grind // Dust
Instants: 4
4 Destructive Revelry
Enchantments: 4
4 Nest of Scarabs
1 Sol Ring
23 Land
Deck is fairly synergistic in my mind. I can deal with problematic creatures, artifacts or enchantments. I can also one-sided sweep with Grind // Dust
There are a host of options to change, I just am meh about the win-con overall.
That is an excellent suggestion. Damn, that's tough. 2 ETB vs 1 and a card....
Ouch...
I'm leaning your direction, but not easy
4 Will-O'-The-Wisp
4 Aether Membrane
2 Flumph
4 Red Dragon
4 Kardur, Doomscourge
4 Anguished Unmaking
4 Acrobatic Maneuver
4 Long Road Home
Planeswalker: 4
4 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
2 Teleportation Circle
Mana Sources: 24
1 Sol Ring
23 Land
I think there are a few ways to abuse Kardur, Doomscourge, but I'm thinking the direction of this deck idea is to abuse the ETB ability. Since ETB is what is to be abused, I paired him with Red Dragon.
Idea is painfully simple: 10 early game, defensive creatures, then get at least 1 of those 2 ETB creatures onto the battlefield, then blink the crap out of them. Note that the 10 defensive creatures can be most anything, I just vastly prefer creatures that can block enemy flying creatures.
Kaya, Ghost Assassin looks to pair painfully well with either of the 2 ETB creatures, as it limits options as to deal with them; they go to exile until your next upkeep. This should render any sorcery response (e.g., Vindicate, Maelstrom Pulse, etc.) moot and then forces an opponent to use an instant based card to deal with the creature. Of course, they can try and go after Kaya, Ghost Assassin directly, but that tends to be more difficult to deal with than, say, an enchantment or artifact. This is why there are only 2 copies of Teleportation Circle included. Granted, I'd be happy to go to 4 here, but I don't see the need, to say nothing about having the room.
This deck has 8 instant-based flicker cards, one of which (i.e., Long Road Home) can actually function as a defensive card in a pinch. Further, these 8 Flicker cards can be used to counter spot/Instant removal cards as well, further helping with card economy, as well as triggering the ETB again. Granted, multiple instances of Kardur, Doomscourge triggered ability is meaningless, but it still provides some benefit in many situations.
I rationalize that I will hit all my opponents the first time I play with of the 2 ETB cards and, given the carnage that will surely follow, I won't have to drain everyone for the full 20 pts of life, as Kardur, Doomscourge just has to be funny as hell.
Thoughts?
Been toying with something like:
4 Aerial Responder
4 Metropolis Reformer
4 Rage Nimbus
4 Wrathful Red Dragon
4 Phyrexian Vindicator
4 Blasphemous Act
3 Chandra's Ignition
3 Dismantling Wave
Enchantment: 3
3 Fall of Cair Andros
Artifact: 4
1 Sol Ring
3 Blazing Sunsteel
4 Plateau
4 Boros Garrison
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Arid Mesa
4 Rugged Prairie
3 Plains
Blasphemous Act stands on its own in case the board gets out of control, but it stacks very nicely with Fall of Cair Andros. If I'm able to also have Chandra's Ignition in my hand, I have a shot at an immediate game-ending bomb.
Further, with Blazing Sunsteel, I rationalize that I can activate a reasonably effective Chandra's Ignition as well with Fall of Cair Andros, but that's not nearly as interesting.
I almost included Wall of Hope to include creatures that stack nicely with Blasphemous Act, but I opted for Rage Nimbus instead, as I wanted an early-game defensive flyer that has a solid power in case I need to cast Chandra's Ignition, but remain in thought.
I'm purposely attempting to not include cards that give my spells Lifelink or damage opponents directly (say Boros Reckoner), as I'm trying to not be obvious and have used it plenty in the past. I'm currently running 16 creatures that stack nicely with a damage-sweeper and those stack with Blazing Sunsteel too.
Thanks
Not sure what to cut though. Agree on Lyra, but I also don't expect her to stay on the battlefield too long either.
4 Bishop of Wings
4 Giada, Font of Hope
4 Righteous Valkyrie
4 Baneslayer Angel
4 Lyra Dawnbringer
4 Ambition's Cost
4 Vindicate
Enchantment: 4
4 Rampage of the Valkyries
Artifact: 1
1 Sol Ring
Planeswalker: 4
4 Teferi, Time Raveler
4 Scrubland
4 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
3 Vault of the Archangel
I'm debating on how to fit a few copies of Grand Abolisher, as well as Rite of Replication.
Still thinking, but got a working draft at least.
Thoughts?
4 Wall of Denial
4 Hover Barrier
4 Wall of Shards
2 Towering Titan
4 Arcades, the Strategist
2 Tree of Redemption
4 Beast Within
Enchantment: 4
4 High Alert
Artifacts: 9
1 Sol Ring
4 Meekstone
4 Slagwurm Armor
Land: 23
4 Savannah
4 Tundra
4 Tropical Island
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
1 Island
In my/our MP format, Wall of Shards drawback is almost moot, as we don't care too much about our adjacent opponents/they aren't part of the win condition. As such, giving life to them can often be advantageous. I'd have no issues, however, swapping with, say, Flumph.
All of the creatures pretty much turn into beasts once High Alert and/or Arcades, the Strategist comes online. And since my opponents will simply take either out when they can, I'm opting to run the full compliments of 4 each, as the entire deck pretty much depends on either to turn everything online.
Meekstone also seems like a perfect fit here. Only Towering Titan looks to be a potential issue, but I rationalize I can get around that, if needed, with High Alert.
Towering Titan looks hilarious in this deck, as he not only should be beastly when cast, but also gives a win-con.
I'd prefer to have a little more removal, but the creatures look to command the board, so I'm not too worried, to say nothing about the fact that I struggle to find the room.
I played a variant of the following deck recently and it was an absolute hoot (note that my MP format (see sig) is a tad different than FFA MP, but it's definitely still MP.).
I tend to think the versions that run UW Defenders are the better way to go in these types of decks, as once the switch goes through, the creatures become beastly (i.e., Wall of Denial), but I opted to try one that didn't run Defenders:
4 Sporecap Spider
4 Aerial Responder
4 Doran, the Siege Tower
4 Welcoming Vampire
4 Unhallowed Phalanx
4 Assault Formation
Instant: 4
4 Status // Statue
Artifact: 8
1 Sol Ring
4 Slagwurm Armor
3 Meekstone
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Land: 21
4 Bayou
4 Savannah
4 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
Funny part is, it really isn't much of a "multiplayer" deck. About the only card that could be considered such is Meekstone, but, paradoxically, that's likely the first card I would cut from it.
Why?
Because when I played the other version, I just wanted more creatures on the board. Not only does switching their PT make it such that with either (in this case) Assault Formation or Doran, the Siege Tower in play, they become incredible bargains. Once you load one or even two with Slagwurm Armor, opponents are forced to use their best removal spells on creatures that aren't exactly high-mana cost creatures. Debating hard if Vampire Envoy should take Aerial Responder place
I usually run 23 land plus one Sol Ring (total of 24 "Land"), but in this deck, only 1 card (4 in the whole deck) costs 5 mana. All others are 4 CMC or less, hence, I reduced my "land" base to 22. In most of my GB decks, I run Maelstrom Pulse, but I am absolutely in love with Status // Statue atm.
Garruk Wildspeaker is primarily included to give my creatures trample, but obviously has a lot of other functionality. This could be any number of great artifacts that can (ultimately) give my creatures trample, like Gruul War Plow but left Garruk in for the time being.
I have another version of this type of deck that looks to be a hoot as well. There are so many cool ways to exploit swapping P/T lately...
Yeah, I can do a 4-color deck. I have (& my playgroup uses) the old-school dual lands, plus fetch lands, etc. so doing that isn't too bad. I guess I just tend to shy away from 4-color decks. If you were building a deck around her, would you try and abuse her in the manner I was toying with above?
Also, and, perhaps, more important, I'm really not sure how to carve out the rest of the deck. While I like a few tricks with her, I want the deck to succeed without her, as my playgroup isn't stupid and she'll likely get roasted fast. But, it still should be funny for the first few minutes
Love Freed from the Real!
Ha! Haven't thought about Norritt for a long time!
Similar to above, how would you carve out the rest of the deck? I'm not sure what else to run with her...
I've searched, but only found a few Commander decks using her and nothing remotely close to an MP deck.
I thought something like Murkfiend Liege would be really funny and draw a lot of salt, but that would be the entertaining part.
I don't necessarily want that or her to be the only thing the deck does, but I'd love the combo.
I'd love to play her with Prophet of Kruphix, but that would likely require me to run G, which would be a 4-color deck, which I'm rather meh about.
Have you guys ever built a deck around her?
Another card that pays homage to the Xbox version of the game.
Looking for another version of a deck that has some fun with this card. It may or may not be a win-con, but it's damn funny playing this for 2, early in a game and little to no ramp. Cards like Forbidden Orchard seem like a layup to include, but I'm in thought about a current version of a deck having some fun with the big guy.
I tend to think that, at least for my meta (see signature below for more details), it might be okay to bring some targeted removal/enchantments to protect myself from my win-con opponents (i.e. in our meta, seldom to adjacent opponents attack you) in the early game. I'd need several, similar to the number of early game creatures I might otherwise play.
As such, I was thinking of playing adding U or W to G, as they have some solid, cheap, enchantments that can protect me early in the game. There are a verifiable boatload of cards that might work with this idea, like, say, Spirit Link, but others like, Temporal Isolation, Pacifism, or Kirtar's Desire also can protect me early game while not playing any creatures to defend myself. Or, if considering U, something like, Backfire, Curse of Chains, or, say, Ice Cage might work well.
Heck, B can be a sweet add as well, as it has the outstanding (at least for this idea) Paralyze, Vampiric Link and, say, Spirit Shackle
In my mind, the two best cards noted above are likely Spirit Link or Vampiric Link, as they can double as either early creature defense, played on enemy creatures, or on my own creatures, if the situation warrants
What do you think? Solid idea or meh? How do you abuse the big guy in your decks? The deck can go in any direction, I'm indifferent. I just want to have some fun playing with this card
Really? My meta hasn't. That's interesting. Why do they attack when that's in play?
Hmm, curious...why not? When bashing in with some, say, "7/7" Defender, why not just smash through? I guess I'm missing something
In any case, it's always hard for me to not (at least) splash R in these decks, as cards like Vent Sentinel can get very scary if they get going.
In your original deck, I loved the inclusion of Wall of Souls, as he is often a, "GO AWAY!" for ground attackers into you, which is hard to not be a good thing. Unfortunately, it now appears you are not running R or B.
Since your playing U, one, "GO AWAY" wall might be Wall of Frost. Wall of Tears is a sweet, "GO AWAY!" card, but he doesn't have the resiliency that Wall of Frost does, nor does he become as beastly once your combo card comes into play
Dazzling Ramparts is also potentially nice. Tapping a creature can be helpful
I've found that Perimeter Captain to be a really nice inclusion. He's cheap, early (ground) defender and is another, "GO AWAY!" card that makes your opponents pause before attacking you. For me, this is almost an auto-include. But including, say, Wall of Essence can also work
Drift of Phantasms can be really sweet, especially if your deck is loaded with 3 cmc cards.
Or Stalwart Shield-Bearers can be nasty in this as well
If running U and W, I struggle to not include Plumeveil. Flash is usually nasty here, results in an instant death of...some creature and it blocks Flying. I don't know your meta, but that would be a red flag in mine (i.e. can't block flying creatures).
Another red flag would be that you have no way to deal with potentially nasty creatures/artifacts/enchantments. No need to include, say, Oblivion Ring (Detention Sphere is even better here) or Beast Within or whatever?? You mention it as a possibility above and my answer, especially in my meta, is a resounding yes. Your suggestions, however, cover a wide range of ways to deal with those threats
Along those lines, how can you not be playing with Wall of Denial here? That thing is beastly and, again, blocks (& attacks) Flying. An "8/8" Flying, Shrouded creature for 3 is just...wow
Or, how about even Hover Barrier? He's strictly worse than Wall of Denial here, but still nothing to sneeze at
Since you are running G, is Tree of Redemption a possibility? That can be beastly and, perhaps, save your bacon in time of need.
I'm actually not a fan of the direction of the deck. It appears you want to ramp into fatties and/or make them Unblockable, but why? In my mind, I'd slow-roll at the beginning, playing defensive cards that are cheap, but nice and defensive. But, once you get one of your "Toughness switch from Power" cards onto the battlefield, you get to abuse the cheap cards noted above and they they automatically become something to seriously recon with. I played a version way back when (when Doran, the Siege Tower was the only/primary way to do this) & I had to keep him in play. That particular game swung back and forth as he was in play. Here, however, you have a boatload of solid options to keep that going. The drawback is that more than 1 isn't cumulative, but that's okay, it's usually important enough to have extra, as those cards will get torched once people see what you are up to.
Further, if it were me, I'd splash a few Kessig Wolf Run and just Hulk-smash through people. In that way, you really don't need a lot of ramp, can drop a bunch of your search cards (i.e. I'd just run 4, say, Rhystic Study or Mystic Remora or heck, even Concentrate and call it a day from a card-draw perspective) and tighten the deck up. Hopefully, this helps