I'm worried about opening packs in draft or sealed with 4-5 nonbasic lands in them.
I think you'll see 3 non-foil lands (common, uncommon, rare/mythic) in around 1 in 100 packs if I did the math right. They might not have made the print runs so that only 1 common land shows up, but they certainly can if they chose to. Getting a foil land for a 4th land should be fairly negligible. The asfan is only 1.3 lands or so.
I didn't play RTR prerelease boxes so not real familiar with how the seeded packs were set up, but here's my theory on the Khans
There are 8 possible promo cards per clan. I think the khans could be in the seeded booster but clearly not as the prerelease promo, that would be insane.
So you have the Intro pack rares the Ascendancy rares the spell cycle rares DuneblastCrackling DoomFlying crane technique etc the non central colour gold rare Utter EndSagu Mauler etc. The clan afilliated Morph card in it's central colour. [cards]Thousand Winds Runeclaw mystic Mocking instigator[cards]etc and the clan mechanic card from each affiliated color.
Here's where I'm speculating, that there are 5 rares per colour and in black red and green there will be a spell the clan mechanic and a creature with the mechanic. Prowess and outlast don't work on spells so white and blue will get something different for it's 5th rare.
If I'm right I believe the promo card will be the Creature ONLY. For example if I'm right and Red gets a rare creature with the Raid mechanic that card will be in the promo pool, but Howl of the Horde will not. Just like Kheru Spellthief will not be in the Sultai pool, because it's the morph in a non central colour for it's clan.
The seeded rare will be the same as the promo pool only they replace the promo rare with the Khan. I'd like to think they have the sorting tech now to avoid doubling up on the rare in the seeded booster.
I think the tri tap land is a guaranteed uncommon with at least one of the others either the gold uncommon in the pairing with the centralized colour e.g. UG or GR for temur or an uncommon in the clan's central color.
In the common i think we are guaranteed the common non basic land for that clan and the tri color common for that clan.
Any thoughts? Critiques?
Utter end is not clan-marked. I suspect it may not be one of the rares in the clan pack.
I do not undrestand the "If I'm right I believe the promo card will be the Creature ONLY". I thought that WotC said there were 40 possible prerelease "promos". I kinda doubt that all 40 of those promos are creatures. For example, I would be surprised if the Ascendancy cycle were not possible promos.
So proxy tournaments happen and are attended, but they can't be official. I personal enjoy playing in proxy tournaments even though I have none and own the majority of Legacy staples (at least enough to make all the decks I want to play) and an excess of certain reserve list cards. I really wouldn't care if my collection became worthless though, because I'm not a collector. I didn't get into this for the money. I just like playing Legacy. Only format I really enjoy. So proxy tournaments are fun, but there is always the issue of them not being allowed to be sanctioned and I think it's a legitimate one. Despite Wizards showing the minimum amount of support to Legacy there is still an appeal to being sanctioned.
Well, this might be a really stupid idea, but it looks like 1/2 to 1/3 the price of many decks, and the large majority of reserved list price in most decks, is the dual lands. Why not just petition Wizards to ban them? It's against they're current banning philosophy, but I'd imagine that to be more flexible than their reserved list policy. It's not like duals are functionally unique, even if the other options are noticeably worse. I'm sure there'd be fallout in terms of the meta, but it seems like you'd cut the buy-in cost, especially in terms of stuff that can't see reprint, and lose little of the uniqueness of the format in terms of game play. I don't know, just seems like there are other windmills to tilt at. I just mention this track as I recently removed the dual lands from my cube due to price concerns.
Horrible for Legacy players who like the format. Horrible for collectors who apparently care about the value of their revised duals (yeah great "collectors" item...). Bad for store owners who have duals. Then there's the people who want to get into Legacy. Guess what, they actually like duals too. So the format they want to get into is no longer even the same format. Even bad for wizards because of the backlash from...well almost everyone. Who does this even benefit? Basically just EDH players? You're throwing around a "fallout in the meta" as if it is negligible. On the current track, Legacy plateaus out and eventually reaches a ceiling. Your proposal just kills it.
I was really concerned with the value of revised duals. I'm sure they'd drop but long term collectors and EDH would keep them from being worthless. Besides which the point was to try and help legacy without touching the reserved list (which appears to be a non-starter).
That being said if removing the duals would kill legacy then I suppose that's that. I'm really surprised that ya seem to think that removing the duals would wind up killing that many archtypes. I'd think the common loss across most archtypes would keep most things the same and help a few non-affected decks a bit + aggressive strategies there are. But then I'm not a legacy player. Shrug. Thankfully, not my problem.
So proxy tournaments happen and are attended, but they can't be official. I personal enjoy playing in proxy tournaments even though I have none and own the majority of Legacy staples (at least enough to make all the decks I want to play) and an excess of certain reserve list cards. I really wouldn't care if my collection became worthless though, because I'm not a collector. I didn't get into this for the money. I just like playing Legacy. Only format I really enjoy. So proxy tournaments are fun, but there is always the issue of them not being allowed to be sanctioned and I think it's a legitimate one. Despite Wizards showing the minimum amount of support to Legacy there is still an appeal to being sanctioned.
Well, this might be a really stupid idea, but it looks like 1/2 to 1/3 the price of many decks, and the large majority of reserved list price in most decks, is the dual lands. Why not just petition Wizards to ban them? It's against they're current banning philosophy, but I'd imagine that to be more flexible than their reserved list policy. It's not like duals are functionally unique, even if the other options are noticeably worse. I'm sure there'd be fallout in terms of the meta, but it seems like you'd cut the buy-in cost, especially in terms of stuff that can't see reprint, and lose little of the uniqueness of the format in terms of game play. I don't know, just seems like there are other windmills to tilt at. I just mention this track as I recently removed the dual lands from my cube due to price concerns.
I would gladly take an 80% hit in the potential resale value of my Legacy collection if the local competition available to me would but match the current variety of opponents I can find for Standard (which is already drastically lower nowadays with Theros Standard compared to last year when Standard was INN/RtR).
This might not be the right place for it, but I've always wondered why people are fixated on repealing the reserved list to save Legacy? I mean it seems like Wizards has pretty much taken that option off the table so why not pursue another option? Or do they and I just don't look into the right threads? (quite possible, I don't actually have an interest in Legacy)
I don't know guys this doesn't seem legit. These cards are from m14 and rtr respectively, why would we be getting them as promos now? They don't even have the new frame. I think someone is trolling us.
The funniest part is that he said they made a "mistake" of bringing the duel deck and opening it. They would know exactly what they were doing...
EDIT:
If you look at the Chandra's fury image, the copy right is for 2013. Stealer of secrets is 2014, but I still doubt the legitimacy of these promos.
Both of these promos are already known, though I've never actually been able to get a copy of the Stealer of Secrets.
I agree with your final statement, I personally have never met a person whom only collects, and only cares about the value of said collection.
That's because these kind of collectors tend to not actually play the game, and aren't often found hanging around the local LGS. There are a few guys at the store I used to frequent who stop by to pick up singles and show off their binders to anyone who will look, but those characters are few and far between. Serious Collectors like that view their cards as an investment. They're usually in a safe or a safety deposit box somewhere.
Please do not confuse "not playing the game at a LGS" with not playing the game. I know plenty of people how have large collections and do not play at LGS. I know that's not statistically significant. If you have actual data I would be very interested in seeing it.
Also, you may be confusing cause and effect as to the safe deposit box. I've added some promos to my safe deposit box because they are valuable. I did not buy them because they were valuable, I bought them because they were a promo I did not have. It doesn't matter what price it is now (assuming I could afford it at some point. That FoW is going to haunt me). I'm sure other people collect for different reasons. For example, I can't imagine wanting to show off my collection.
Someone on Reddit ran the numbers on the amount of invites from PTQs under the new system.
Old system according to them has approx 300 PTQs per season, so 300 invites. New system has 31 PTQs per season, handing out either 4 or 8 invites, so between 124 and 248 invites from PTQs. I don't know the numbers on how many of the regional PTQs will have 128 players or more, but I can't imagine there are *that* many regions that have 128 eligible stores within traveling distance where 128 or more PPTQ winners are willing and able to travel.
I think that Reddit person made a mistake. The source given appears to list 200 PTQs, not 300. So probably fewer, but not by the margin that poster was indicating. Maybe even more? I have no idea how many advanced stores there are or their geographic distribution.
I went through about 50 P3K cards in all four languages, including some backside glossy variants and some cards I had opened from the precons. All had the M of TM beneath the black line. I have further 2k of P3K cards back home, but I'm relatively certain that most of P3K cards have this version of the back. If anybody has opened some personally with the normal TM, please let this thread know, as this would be a great way to recognize those fakes using regular backs.
I'm also very surprised that I hadn't noticed this before. I've been collecting P3K cards for long time and never noticed the backside.
Sorry, I don't have a scanner. But I took a photo of my Balance of Power. It's a bit hard to make out, but the M does go over the black oval as far as I can tell. It seems to be consistent across the contents from my box. All of my English cards (which come from multiple sources), appear to be the other way though. It really bothers me if only my 1 chinese box is different.
I went through about 50 P3K cards in all four languages, including some backside glossy variants and some cards I had opened from the precons. All had the M of TM beneath the black line. I have further 2k of P3K cards back home, but I'm relatively certain that most of P3K cards have this version of the back. If anybody has opened some personally with the normal TM, please let this thread know, as this would be a great way to recognize those fakes using regular backs.
I'm also very surprised that I hadn't noticed this before. I've been collecting P3K cards for long time and never noticed the backside.
Hi,
The T-Chinese cards that I mentioned above (with the M over the black line) come from a sealed box I bought. I suppose it's possible that I bought a fake box all those years ago, but it hardly seems like that would've been worth the effort to fake. I'm not sure I have other T-Chinese P3K to compare against.
The people saying they want something like the Abyss are forgetting that with cards on the reserved list, you CANNOT print something functionally identical, strictly better, or an exact carbon copy... It took a shock and ETB tapped ability to make the shocklands, what kind of drawback do you think they'd have to apply on cards similar to those on the reserved list? Seriously, come on now...
Also, Land won one, Enchantment won one, shouldn't there be a tiebreaker here?
You can print better cards. Just not functionally identical.
My multi colored cube does not use complete cycles except for fetch lands, shock lands, worldwake man lands, and lieges. Nobody has ever made a comment about expecting other non-land cycles, such as charms or guildmages, to be complete. I did get a bunch of complaints about the other fixing lands not being a complete cycle, so I'm switching them all to filter lands. Or I will once I do my mass update after dragons maze.
Yes it is mappable.
No, it probably wouldn't take a dozen boxes. Old sets are far easier to map than new ones.
But really, just buy the single you want. It's cheaper.
The copyright thing alone sealed it for me, because some random dude wouldn't know about this change and would have made it just like the old style we saw in M13.
Just to be clear here, it's entirely possible that if someone wanted to make a fake they would know about this. It's one of the first things I noticed about the promo and I've had the promo for a month. I bought the comic on 7/2 (interestingly before M2013, I wonder if they're printed in a different place. How many place do they print cards these days anyway?). I'm pretty sure it's been on sale longer than that. I don't really think it's fake. I just don't see how the copyright line is a convincing argument either way.
I think you'll see 3 non-foil lands (common, uncommon, rare/mythic) in around 1 in 100 packs if I did the math right. They might not have made the print runs so that only 1 common land shows up, but they certainly can if they chose to. Getting a foil land for a 4th land should be fairly negligible. The asfan is only 1.3 lands or so.
Utter end is not clan-marked. I suspect it may not be one of the rares in the clan pack.
I do not undrestand the "If I'm right I believe the promo card will be the Creature ONLY". I thought that WotC said there were 40 possible prerelease "promos". I kinda doubt that all 40 of those promos are creatures. For example, I would be surprised if the Ascendancy cycle were not possible promos.
I was really concerned with the value of revised duals. I'm sure they'd drop but long term collectors and EDH would keep them from being worthless. Besides which the point was to try and help legacy without touching the reserved list (which appears to be a non-starter).
That being said if removing the duals would kill legacy then I suppose that's that. I'm really surprised that ya seem to think that removing the duals would wind up killing that many archtypes. I'd think the common loss across most archtypes would keep most things the same and help a few non-affected decks a bit + aggressive strategies there are. But then I'm not a legacy player. Shrug. Thankfully, not my problem.
Well, this might be a really stupid idea, but it looks like 1/2 to 1/3 the price of many decks, and the large majority of reserved list price in most decks, is the dual lands. Why not just petition Wizards to ban them? It's against they're current banning philosophy, but I'd imagine that to be more flexible than their reserved list policy. It's not like duals are functionally unique, even if the other options are noticeably worse. I'm sure there'd be fallout in terms of the meta, but it seems like you'd cut the buy-in cost, especially in terms of stuff that can't see reprint, and lose little of the uniqueness of the format in terms of game play. I don't know, just seems like there are other windmills to tilt at. I just mention this track as I recently removed the dual lands from my cube due to price concerns.
This might not be the right place for it, but I've always wondered why people are fixated on repealing the reserved list to save Legacy? I mean it seems like Wizards has pretty much taken that option off the table so why not pursue another option? Or do they and I just don't look into the right threads? (quite possible, I don't actually have an interest in Legacy)
Both of these promos are already known, though I've never actually been able to get a copy of the Stealer of Secrets.
Please do not confuse "not playing the game at a LGS" with not playing the game. I know plenty of people how have large collections and do not play at LGS. I know that's not statistically significant. If you have actual data I would be very interested in seeing it.
Also, you may be confusing cause and effect as to the safe deposit box. I've added some promos to my safe deposit box because they are valuable. I did not buy them because they were valuable, I bought them because they were a promo I did not have. It doesn't matter what price it is now (assuming I could afford it at some point. That FoW is going to haunt me). I'm sure other people collect for different reasons. For example, I can't imagine wanting to show off my collection.
Just my 2 cents.
I think that Reddit person made a mistake. The source given appears to list 200 PTQs, not 300. So probably fewer, but not by the margin that poster was indicating. Maybe even more? I have no idea how many advanced stores there are or their geographic distribution.
Sorry, I don't have a scanner. But I took a photo of my Balance of Power. It's a bit hard to make out, but the M does go over the black oval as far as I can tell. It seems to be consistent across the contents from my box. All of my English cards (which come from multiple sources), appear to be the other way though. It really bothers me if only my 1 chinese box is different.
Hi,
The T-Chinese cards that I mentioned above (with the M over the black line) come from a sealed box I bought. I suppose it's possible that I bought a fake box all those years ago, but it hardly seems like that would've been worth the effort to fake. I'm not sure I have other T-Chinese P3K to compare against.
You can print better cards. Just not functionally identical.
Ratchet Bomb vs Powder Keg?
Guided Strike vs Lightning Blow?
Grave Titan or Patron of the Nezumi or Sheoldred, Whispering OneRune-Scarred Demon vs Mold Demon?
Sphinx of Jwar Isle vs Zephid
No, it probably wouldn't take a dozen boxes. Old sets are far easier to map than new ones.
But really, just buy the single you want. It's cheaper.
Just to be clear here, it's entirely possible that if someone wanted to make a fake they would know about this. It's one of the first things I noticed about the promo and I've had the promo for a month. I bought the comic on 7/2 (interestingly before M2013, I wonder if they're printed in a different place. How many place do they print cards these days anyway?). I'm pretty sure it's been on sale longer than that. I don't really think it's fake. I just don't see how the copyright line is a convincing argument either way.