Well aside from agony warp i don't really see those as being a viable reason to add blue. The deck is all about pressure, and when your not dropping a creature your playing removal. I could see a completely different deck rising with just efficient black creatures (not limiting to Vamps) and make in a control mid range or something but this deck is all about constant pressure. And since Nocturnus needs 3 swamps i don't see splashing super viable.
Thus far like i said before if you have mana open on a turn it better be for removal or you mis-evaluating your starting hand. No pressure vs real control decks=an easy loss. Those higher mana cards will also serve almost no puprose vs argo (Naya Zoo or that hyper bastard 4 color control deck) as they stomp our faces with better efficiency (crazy i know!) and burn. Every deck is running burn....
I actually agree with you for the most part. My friend was just intrigued with a potential BU "Counter-Vamps" build, so I searched up the cards for him. Though after searching them up, I told him that the BR build looked stronger, but maybe time will tell.
ANYway, here's the list I plan on running 2nite for FNM:
It's a shame I don't have all of these yet, as ZEN just went on sale so my boxes haven't come in yet. Like I only have one Vampire Lacerator(I'm buying 2 of the Vampire pre-con deck at FNM 2nite), so I'm subbing them for either Child of Night or Guul Draz Vampire(god...I really need the other Lacerators; Guul Draz Vampire is pretty meh.) I'm missing the Bloodghasts as well, I'm not sure if I'll use Vampire Hexmages, or Childs to sub for now for the Bloodghasts. And I'm one short on the Malakir Bloodwitch so I don't know what I'll use for her. I'm glad that the pre-con comes with TWO Vampire Nighthawks though, that card is a house.
Hell, maybe I'll be lucky and I'll pull a Bloodwitch in one of the two Boosters that comes with the pre-cons.
It's funny some people are mentioning BU Vampires, I was just talking to a friend of mine on MSN about my BR version, and he could be interested in a BU variety.
So, we know the base shell of the deck, but as for the stuff to be adding to the deck what direction should we take it? I'm trying to keep all the U to have B in it also, for the sake of Nocturnus and all, so here's a list I compiled of possibilities:
Here's a build I dubbed as "Ob-Rock" namely because I can't stop laughing at the name. It's epically hilarious. <_<. And I just want to say one thing, before showing the deck. Screw. Lotus. Cobra. It's. Terrible.
This has been my rough draft since all of the Vampires for ZEN were spoiled. I like the options that Black splash Red offers, and Terminate >>> Doom Blade in all ways, shapes, and forms. Red also gives me access to the ultimate of SB cards, Thought Hemorrhage, and the best burn spell in existence, Lightning Bolt. I just can't remove Bolt...it's too good. Also, the reason for only two Tendrils of Corruption is my smaller overall number of basic Swamps. Although I could remove those entirely in favor of maybe Doom Blade/Hideous End...or maybe Sorin Markov(all of my lands produce black or red, sans the one Mountain...and my deck wants to be control more than aggro) or main deck Vampire Hexmage or Gatekeeper of Malakir. As you can see I'm up in the air on that matter, any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
EDIT: I actually cut the Tendrils entirely in exchange for SB Duress. Tendrils just doesn't look as efficient in this particular build.
@3drinks: I have a few questions about your list.
How has garruk been working out for you?
Same question about unstable footing how is that for the same cost all around i would have preferred the new shock.
Also what do you guys think of Sarkhan vol? I personally i think that the 4 slot is pretty clogged but in some testing i dont think its too bad at all in this deck.
And to the discussion of landfall and zoo. I feel they are two very different decks and should be in different threads. A player playing against it would just wiat till you dont have any lands when they are just useless creatures and respond to the triggers and you lose.
Garruk works out pretty well even if he's dropped on Turn 4, use his +1, then T-5 Overrun FTW. If there is some kind of protection effect or a Fog, Unstable Footing is tech versus it. As a plus, it also curves out at Five when kicked, which not-so-coincidentally is the turn we've used Garruk's ultimate, so in-theory we've got 5 lands on the battlefield anyway...so we've Overrun for huge damage, made sure it can't be prevented, AND domed the opponent for five. Good Game?
What is everyone's thoughts on Ajani Goldmane or Garruk Wildspeaker? Maybe a little more tilted towards Garruk? Neither one? Maybe the Vigilance from Goldmane(the only reason I ever use Goldmane tbh) for the blowout?
I actually quite like this build, with the Garruks as our "finisher" of sorts. I'm not really feeling the Scute Mobs and Scythe Tigers though, and I think the Great Sable Stags are better for the SB(barring, of course, if a Vampire deck does indeed pan out to be tier-1 competitive). What I want to know though, is why no talk of Ajani Goldmane? I mean, I've read about using Ajani Vengeant quite a bit in this topic, but wouldn't Goldmane function essentially the same way as he did in mono-W Kithkin? Plus, Goldmane I think would work as a nice finisher in his own right, and he tops off the curve as a four drop with Bloodbraid Elf, and Ranger of Eos. I really really would <3 to run Plated Geopede in this as well. That dude won me several games in the Sealed yesterday.
Also, to those talking about not enough "good burn" in Std like the Extended counterpart for this deck has, what about Unstable Footing from ZEN, winding up in this deck, probably in the SB? It can break through Protection abilities, and at five mana, it can dome the opponent for 1/4th of their life.
EDIT: Vines of Vastwood should find it's way in here too. Though idk, I mean, you should be able to kill an opponent before you really should be using it. I want it, it's good, but idk.
Well,I went to FNM last night, and my shop had just bought someone's HUGE collection, so I snagged a lot of good stuff for my deck. Cost me ~$32, but the shop gave the cards to me for an even $30, as I'm one of their "regular" buyers <_<. Here's the list I picked up for $30:
All of that for $30! Is that a good deal...or did I get kind of ripped?
Then, another player came in and said he was moving out of the country, and was leaving his cards(he had already sold the rares to the shop) to the players that were there. So I got snow-covered forests and plains to work with that Lense I just got, a Revised Edition Clone, playset of Shriekmaw, Beseech the Queen, 3 Hellspark to complete my playset, a playset of Crib Swap and a whole host of other stuff.(Yet I still don't have a single Boros Garrison or Vigor <_<.)
Just a note: I know, I said I wasn't going to use that incredibly douchebag-esque Strip Mine+Crucible of Worlds combo, but...well, there's so many others I've faced that have it, so I really don't have a choice, so I can keep up with them V_V.
Exactly, I run the Vines MD for the protection. I'm not as concerned about the huge pump, bit if I hit it, then hey, great, awesome. If not, that's cool too...I just made you waste your Terminate.
For anyone who has playtested this deck, how does it perform against vamps? I think it's pretty clear that vamp aggro will be dominant in the new meta. Also, I believe milling will also be a big thing.
What tools do we have against these decks? Sucks that we lost Primal Command...
Against milling? Simple, we beat face. While they are busy spending their mana to affect everything not on the board, we're just gonna win. Simple as that, no?
I mean, seriously, milling isn't a viable win-con. But people think it is with the Archive Trap coming. But really, Mill stops being a viable win-con after Sanity Grinding rotates out.
Re-edited once more. I'm removing Journey to Nowhere in favor of 2 Path to Exile SB. I'm still not too sure about Path interactions with landfall, however it is strong removal. Nevertheless, they'll remain in the SB as a two-of. Added one more Vines of Vastwood MD, leaving the fourth one in SB.
I still don't have a clue of what I would replace in this list for Soul's Majesty...maybe Zealous Persecution, but idk. If a token/weenie horde pops up, Zealous will be instrumental in crushing it(or trying hard to).
Stop whining about the "lack of counters". Geez FFS, if you want a "counter with benefits" just run Esper colours and use Punish Ignorance. Or if you want Counterspell, go play Legacy/Vintage. Otherwise, stop whining, and play Standard the way Standard has shaped up to be.
Good riddance to stupid decks that just thrive off being annoying and countering every spell you cast.
I actually agree with you for the most part. My friend was just intrigued with a potential BU "Counter-Vamps" build, so I searched up the cards for him. Though after searching them up, I told him that the BR build looked stronger, but maybe time will tell.
ANYway, here's the list I plan on running 2nite for FNM:
12 Swamp
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Veinfire Borderpost
2 Gargoyle Castle
1 Mountain
Creatures(19)
4 Vampire Nocturnus
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Vampire Lacerator
4 Bloodghast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
4 Bituminous Blast
4 Sign in Blood
2 Quest for the Gravelord
3 Pithing Needle
3 Vampire Hexmage
3 Thought Hemorrhage
2 Duress
2 Disfigure
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
It's a shame I don't have all of these yet, as ZEN just went on sale so my boxes haven't come in yet. Like I only have one Vampire Lacerator(I'm buying 2 of the Vampire pre-con deck at FNM 2nite), so I'm subbing them for either Child of Night or Guul Draz Vampire(god...I really need the other Lacerators; Guul Draz Vampire is pretty meh.) I'm missing the Bloodghasts as well, I'm not sure if I'll use Vampire Hexmages, or Childs to sub for now for the Bloodghasts. And I'm one short on the Malakir Bloodwitch so I don't know what I'll use for her. I'm glad that the pre-con comes with TWO Vampire Nighthawks though, that card is a house.
Hell, maybe I'll be lucky and I'll pull a Bloodwitch in one of the two Boosters that comes with the pre-cons.
So, we know the base shell of the deck, but as for the stuff to be adding to the deck what direction should we take it? I'm trying to keep all the U to have B in it also, for the sake of Nocturnus and all, so here's a list I compiled of possibilities:
Soul Manipulation
Countersquall
Mistvein Borderpost
Agony Warp (Awesome.)
Brainbite? (Targeted discard + draw, but seems too slow IMHO)
Mask of Riddles (Card draw, but we can probably do better?)
Mind Funeral? (Nice card but doesn't seem to have any synergy with the deck)
Slave of Bolas (I think this will be better in this build as opposed to the BR build.)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
5 Forest
6 Swamp
4 Plains
2 Terramorphic Expanse
Creatures(15)
4 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Putrid Leech
4 Harrow
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Doom Blade
4 Grim Discovery
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Vines of Vastwood
2 Path to Exile
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Celestial Purge
2 Identity Crisis
3 Pithing Needle
4 Great Sable Stag
This deck looks really fun, and quite powerful...but it's also looking stupidly expensive.
12 Swamp
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Veinfire Borderpost
2 Gargoyle Castle
1 Mountain
Creatures(19)
4 Vampire Nocturnus
4 Bloodghast
4 Vampire Lacerator
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Bituminous Blast
4 Sign in Blood
4 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Quest for the Gravelord
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Vampire Hexmage
3 Thought Hemorrhage
3 Duress
2 Marsh Casualties
This has been my rough draft since all of the Vampires for ZEN were spoiled. I like the options that Black splash Red offers, and Terminate >>> Doom Blade in all ways, shapes, and forms. Red also gives me access to the ultimate of SB cards, Thought Hemorrhage, and the best burn spell in existence, Lightning Bolt. I just can't remove Bolt...it's too good. Also, the reason for only two Tendrils of Corruption is my smaller overall number of basic Swamps. Although I could remove those entirely in favor of maybe Doom Blade/Hideous End...or maybe Sorin Markov(all of my lands produce black or red, sans the one Mountain...and my deck wants to be control more than aggro) or main deck Vampire Hexmage or Gatekeeper of Malakir. As you can see I'm up in the air on that matter, any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.
EDIT: I actually cut the Tendrils entirely in exchange for SB Duress. Tendrils just doesn't look as efficient in this particular build.
Garruk works out pretty well even if he's dropped on Turn 4, use his +1, then T-5 Overrun FTW. If there is some kind of protection effect or a Fog, Unstable Footing is tech versus it. As a plus, it also curves out at Five when kicked, which not-so-coincidentally is the turn we've used Garruk's ultimate, so in-theory we've got 5 lands on the battlefield anyway...so we've Overrun for huge damage, made sure it can't be prevented, AND domed the opponent for five. Good Game?
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Goblin Guide
4x Woolly Thoctar
4x Bloodbraid Elf
3x Ranger of Eos
4x Cerodon Yearling
2x Elite Vanguard
Spells(13)
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Unstable Footing
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Arid Messa
4x Ancient Ziggurat
2x Rootbound Crag
2x Sunpetal Grove
4x Forest
3x Plains
3x Mountain
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dauntless Escort
4 Great Sable Stag
3 Celestial Purge
2 Naya Charm
I reckon Elite Vanguard could be replaced with Hellspark Elemental, or even Plated Geopede.
There's what I think would be the "ideal" Zoo build.
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Goblin Guide
4x Woolly Thoctar
4x Bloodbraid Elf
3x Ranger of Eos
2x Great Sable Stag
2x Scute Mob
2x Scythe Tiger
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Burst Lightning
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands:
4x Arid Messa
3x Rootbound Crag
3x Sunpetal Grove
4x Forest
4x Plains
4x Mountain
I actually quite like this build, with the Garruks as our "finisher" of sorts. I'm not really feeling the Scute Mobs and Scythe Tigers though, and I think the Great Sable Stags are better for the SB(barring, of course, if a Vampire deck does indeed pan out to be tier-1 competitive). What I want to know though, is why no talk of Ajani Goldmane? I mean, I've read about using Ajani Vengeant quite a bit in this topic, but wouldn't Goldmane function essentially the same way as he did in mono-W Kithkin? Plus, Goldmane I think would work as a nice finisher in his own right, and he tops off the curve as a four drop with Bloodbraid Elf, and Ranger of Eos. I really really would <3 to run Plated Geopede in this as well. That dude won me several games in the Sealed yesterday.
Also, to those talking about not enough "good burn" in Std like the Extended counterpart for this deck has, what about Unstable Footing from ZEN, winding up in this deck, probably in the SB? It can break through Protection abilities, and at five mana, it can dome the opponent for 1/4th of their life.
EDIT: Vines of Vastwood should find it's way in here too. Though idk, I mean, you should be able to kill an opponent before you really should be using it. I want it, it's good, but idk.
Thoughts?
Extraplanar Lense
Sol Ring
Quicksilver Amulet
Privileged Position
Strip Mine
Autochthon Wurm
Breaking Point
Wrath of God
Ryusei, the Falling Star
Crucible of Worlds
Azusa, Lost but Seeking(the closest thing to Fastbond I could think of for the Mine+Crucible combo)
Into the North
Mycosynth Lattice
Sunstone
Nevinyrral's Disk
Duplicant
Word of Seizing
Wildfire
Swords to Plowshares
Mageta the Lion
Black Vise
Blazing Archon
All of that for $30! Is that a good deal...or did I get kind of ripped?
Then, another player came in and said he was moving out of the country, and was leaving his cards(he had already sold the rares to the shop) to the players that were there. So I got snow-covered forests and plains to work with that Lense I just got, a Revised Edition Clone, playset of Shriekmaw, Beseech the Queen, 3 Hellspark to complete my playset, a playset of Crib Swap and a whole host of other stuff.(Yet I still don't have a single Boros Garrison or Vigor <_<.)
Just a note: I know, I said I wasn't going to use that incredibly douchebag-esque Strip Mine+Crucible of Worlds combo, but...well, there's so many others I've faced that have it, so I really don't have a choice, so I can keep up with them V_V.
Against milling? Simple, we beat face. While they are busy spending their mana to affect everything not on the board, we're just gonna win. Simple as that, no?
I mean, seriously, milling isn't a viable win-con. But people think it is with the Archive Trap coming. But really, Mill stops being a viable win-con after Sanity Grinding rotates out.
4 Verdant Marsh
4 Obsidian Flats
5 Forest
6 Swamp
4 Plains
2 Terramorphic Expanse
Creatures(15)
4 Ob Nixilis
4 Knight of the White Orchid
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Putrid Leech
4 Harrow
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Doom Blade
4 Grim Discovery
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Vines of Vastwood
2 Path to Exile
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Celestial Purge
2 Identity Crisis
3 Pithing Needle
4 Great Sable Stag
Re-edited once more. I'm removing Journey to Nowhere in favor of 2 Path to Exile SB. I'm still not too sure about Path interactions with landfall, however it is strong removal. Nevertheless, they'll remain in the SB as a two-of. Added one more Vines of Vastwood MD, leaving the fourth one in SB.
I still don't have a clue of what I would replace in this list for Soul's Majesty...maybe Zealous Persecution, but idk. If a token/weenie horde pops up, Zealous will be instrumental in crushing it(or trying hard to).
Good riddance to stupid decks that just thrive off being annoying and countering every spell you cast.