most games are decided by the time you can play Karn (or if not, then it's a, "Mother, may I?" stalemate counter war where having Karn doesn't help).
If you try to ramp into Karn and be able to keep yourself alive against aggro, he'll be extremely vulnerable to countermagic/Titans. There's only going to be a tiny portion of the time, where you'll want to drop Karn, then play a Titan/AoZ/etc.
He is a 1-of as an additional finisher in a mid-range deck. That's it.
Yeah Ajani and the original Elspeth really made the deck what it was. Without them, it's not nearly as good. T2 Chalice into T3 Ajani gave your opponent a 4 turn clock. Combine that with playing an Elspeth next turn, and they get killed by whichever walker they don't attack.
Though Jace and Gideon are both good, they don't demand as much of a "have to get rid of it" clock as Ajani and Elspeth did. Both ajani and elspeth could protect themselves, since ajani's +1 tapped, and elspeth's made blockers. Gideon doesn't have an ultimate, so protecting himself doesn't really lead to anything, and Jace can't protect itself without removing counters. They just wouldn't work well in a solely planeswalker deck.
Gideon can protect everyone else, or serves as its own clock by swinging. If Ajani V was reprinted, this decktype would be completely viable
That's true. Then again, if that were the board position, how much could you spend attacking a planeswalker?
A token, a Scion and a Mistbind is 8 power on the board. If you can kill 2 planeswalkers with that (and not the player), I'm pretty sure you should kill the planeswalkers.
The whole situation still sounds fishy to me.
True. Thing is, not attacking the planeswalker would give them a turn to play/draw a sweeper.
Of course, that's a non problem if you say, have a Bitterblossom, or Mistbinded a Mistbind Clique.
There's plenty of nuances to Pwalkers. Only answer is experience and ability to comprehend deck lists and read several plays deep.
I see alot of Percy decks, and never understand why Fleshbag Marauder is never used. Worst case, it's a sorcery speed diabolic edict, best case, it's a sorcery speed diabolic edict that wins you the game.
It synergizes well with Mimic Vat, GY recursion (Bloodghast, vengevine, etc.)
U/W control can handle rug easily if you're running standard 7-8 MD permission, 9-11 post-board. There's a heavy incentive to run hard counters here as they can often pay the leak/pierce cost post-cobra.
Most rug lists typically only have 7-9 finishers. Realistically, they're only going to see at most 5 of them. If you have a counterspell or Day of judgment for each one, you're set.
Again, tumble magnets are very good against RUG.
You have no incentive to tapout or until they try to play a bomb unless you can remove a cobra (pre turn 6).
Tect Edge their weakest color (typically you want to keep them off red, then blue, then green if possible in that order)
Caw-blade is actually much weaker against RUG than a stock U/W/x control list.
It will often come down to tap 4 lands, turn Ravine sideways after turn 6.
This deck runs out of gas just as quickly as a traditional aggro deck, except it utilizes big threats only, so topdecks are very strong.
This is also why the utter reliance on Jace makes them strong and weak (It enables gas every hand with brainstorm + fetch lands, but Jace is pretty hard to stick against a control deck that can either counter, or play their own Jace. Remember, a traditional U/W list can more easily afford to run Jace 1.0 than 2.0 since you're playing draw-go and not aggressively digging answer after answer in the form of creatures.)
and they said there would be no cards to remove poison.
WotC has been known to be very precise with their language. Restarting the game doesn't remove counters necessarily (yet to be defined), it just sets the game to the default, which is 0 counters.)
Remember Shared Discovery? LOL, WE R PRINTING {U} DRAW THREE CARDS.
Oops, forgot to mention how limiting the drawback would be in standard.
Most people run 60 card decks. By adding an extra land, you are simply adding an extra card.
I know perfectly well that people are going to play what they are going to play casually, but I think 99% of the tournament players out there follow the strict 60 card minimum with 24-27 lands.
Fixed.
Also, despite the majority of decks being 60 cards, the few 61 card decks that do appear in tournaments, almost always top8.
Coincidence?
Adding 1-2 cards, allows you to diversify your card pool (this only works when there is great redundancy between cards with minute differences). It also allows you to tweak your mana in small increments.
most games are decided by the time you can play Karn (or if not, then it's a, "Mother, may I?" stalemate counter war where having Karn doesn't help).
If you try to ramp into Karn and be able to keep yourself alive against aggro, he'll be extremely vulnerable to countermagic/Titans. There's only going to be a tiny portion of the time, where you'll want to drop Karn, then play a Titan/AoZ/etc.
He is a 1-of as an additional finisher in a mid-range deck. That's it.
The splicers already offer 2-for-1 with synergies with each other and Precursor golem
Gideon can protect everyone else, or serves as its own clock by swinging. If Ajani V was reprinted, this decktype would be completely viable
He's really the crux of the deck, and he's missing.
Elspeth 1.0 while very strong, did not serve a purpose that Gideon could not easily fill himself.
Spell Pierce
Mana Leak
Deprive
etc.
True. Thing is, not attacking the planeswalker would give them a turn to play/draw a sweeper.
Of course, that's a non problem if you say, have a Bitterblossom, or Mistbinded a Mistbind Clique.
There's plenty of nuances to Pwalkers. Only answer is experience and ability to comprehend deck lists and read several plays deep.
You can only lightning helix sustainably every 3 turns. +1, +1, -2, ad infinitum
faeries could put a 3 turn clock w/ scions + mistbinds
It synergizes well with Mimic Vat, GY recursion (Bloodghast, vengevine, etc.)
Most rug lists typically only have 7-9 finishers. Realistically, they're only going to see at most 5 of them. If you have a counterspell or Day of judgment for each one, you're set.
Again, tumble magnets are very good against RUG.
You have no incentive to tapout or until they try to play a bomb unless you can remove a cobra (pre turn 6).
Tect Edge their weakest color (typically you want to keep them off red, then blue, then green if possible in that order)
Caw-blade is actually much weaker against RUG than a stock U/W/x control list.
It will often come down to tap 4 lands, turn Ravine sideways after turn 6.
This deck runs out of gas just as quickly as a traditional aggro deck, except it utilizes big threats only, so topdecks are very strong.
This is also why the utter reliance on Jace makes them strong and weak (It enables gas every hand with brainstorm + fetch lands, but Jace is pretty hard to stick against a control deck that can either counter, or play their own Jace. Remember, a traditional U/W list can more easily afford to run Jace 1.0 than 2.0 since you're playing draw-go and not aggressively digging answer after answer in the form of creatures.)
This thread does not deliver.
This is neither new nor exciting.
Welcome to the internet, where people whine about stupid crap as if it were unexpected phenomenons.
This is the fifth similar post in the past 2 months by you. No one cares anymore.
And only 6 are tournament-legal.
You guys must have awesome luck to see plainswalkers so frequently in draft/seals.
WotC has been known to be very precise with their language. Restarting the game doesn't remove counters necessarily (yet to be defined), it just sets the game to the default, which is 0 counters.)
Remember Shared Discovery? LOL, WE R PRINTING {U} DRAW THREE CARDS.
Oops, forgot to mention how limiting the drawback would be in standard.
Fixed.
Also, despite the majority of decks being 60 cards, the few 61 card decks that do appear in tournaments, almost always top8.
Coincidence?
Adding 1-2 cards, allows you to diversify your card pool (this only works when there is great redundancy between cards with minute differences). It also allows you to tweak your mana in small increments.