I'm going to echo all the others that it's not clear to me how or why we'd rush to rule out Ugin's origins (or more broadly, where we stand with the Elders) other than that it would be a bit out of left field to have this current set (Tarkir) be the one that digs into the Elder Dragons. (A) most of what we know is from the "pre-rev" era and Continuity has the liberty to overwrite it as they have more developed storylines and (B) from what I can tell, there's been a deliberate ambiguity around this space from day one. It's not even clear to me that you can rule out the return of the original five based on a POV from Nicol Bolas that they've been "dealt with." As discussed a bit above, Arcades Sabboth is never explicitly named the Elder Dragon that was killed by Kristina (I would actually bet that Acclaim may have had Nicol Bolas in mind); Vaevictis Asmadi's fate is entirely unclear; Palladia Mors seems to get toasted, but the way she's depicted actually mirrors the way she was first defeated by Chromium (i.e. paralyzed, knocked to the ground and subsequently buried by villagers). I'd consider the latter two "dealt with" if they'd been banished to say the Nether Void or fossilized in the Domains, both possibilities. (It's also surprising because Palladia just seems to get knocked into a tar pit with no repercussions for anyone around her, while the comics made such a HUGE emphasis on the power that's generated by the death of an Elder (i.e. enough to generate an entire chasm or punch through the Shard of the Twelve Worlds.) We only see Chromium and (whatever she is) Piru actually get offed in the old materials. That's all a digression from the point that I think there is plenty enough of a blank canvas here until Continuity wants to explore it, which could be now (I personally doubt it, but wouldn't mind!).
I know Bolas makes some mention of it from his POV, but I'm not up to speed on what Continuity has said about the subject since they reintroduced Bolas as a character, so I guess I'm with others asking where it was established that there were "no bystanders" and a "worldspell" (which I take was actually an interplanar event, unless all the Elders fought their last battle on one plane). Genuine curiosity on my part, as I'd probably be inclined to buy one of the new novels to get those details :).
My interest in revisiting is in a flashback set--I'm well aware we're talking about largely dead characters, although in some cases I think there's a legitimate question (Arcades Sabboth being dead is an indirect deduction off other characters' hearsay; unclear if Asmadi is unsummoned or actually killed, etc.).
I myself had questions to Continuity and Acclaim back in the day about Piru, because she did seem an odd shoehorn in addition to the five. But bear in mind that in the actual source material, she's never referred to as anything BUT an actual Elder. Comics explicitly refer to her as the sixth, and the characters in "Dakkon Blackblade" explicitly call her an Elder. I do agree that it would be clean to assign her, like the original Scarzam dragons (of Sivitri Scarzam), to the first generation after the original five, or a "sub" Elder Dragon--given that they are single-named (that we know) dragons with maybe two colors (UB for Scarzam, I'd guess GB for Piru if I had to). I think I may have had that on the website at one point, although I was later told the creators of the character intended for her to be at the same level as the original five. The question though is, what exactly is an Elder then? You have at least two generations preceding the original five--since Asmadi's the cousin. Then you have a subsequent generation ("sub-Elder") that probably retained the power to cross planes (Scarzam). I think that's probably the proper dividing line, giving us at least four generations of Elders. As for where Piru sits in that, I'd agree that she'd be more comfortably placed in the last category, but she could just as well have been intended to be another cousin like Asmadi of the original five. The point of this all was to say, even if the source material hammers in the idea that only five survived, there's nothing to stop Continuity from introducing a character that sat out the war or otherwise wasn't known to Bolas to have survived, etc.
My recollection is that the only details we ever got about the Elder Dragon Wars were that the original five (plus Piru) were thought to be the only survivors and that the Elder Land Wurms were those who had lost the war and had their wings stripped from them. Not sure about the worldspell. I don't recall if this came from the tear-calendar specifically but think the few details actually came from Acclaim as well as InQuest or one of the other magazines. I recall the guys at Acclaim approached the Elder Dragons as interplanar--maybe that explains how Chromium Rhuell's remains got repurposed into a "planar barge"--so it's definitely possible they were not meant to be limited to Dominaria in origin. The whole storyline was so vague that I don't think it rules out anything and I always thought (and hoped) it was being treated as a blank canvas to be revisited later. Would definitely not mind revisiting both the non-Bolas classic five and getting a proper treatment of the war. Continuity clearly dropped in Piru after the creation of the original five, so it's also not as if they ruled out other Elders surviving even back then.
I have to say it's a big compliment that my site is still being discussed. Since it's been such a long time (around 12 years I believe) since I started working on those materials, and in fact I don't even have most of them on hand anymore, my memory could be inexact. However, I was as careful as possible to keep the work "canon." Where there were additions, they were largely in the Arabian Nights portions and those where you had some alignment of real-world mythology or related materials coming in.
In addition to what Pete and I discussed, some of the material that isn't sourced came from the authors of the original line of novels (HarperCollins) and also from some publications that I haven't seem replicated online lately. These don't just include the old Acclaim graphic books, but also the calendars--in particular, there was a 365-pg. pull-away calendar that had storyline vignettes for a lot of the prerevision expansions and characters.
As for the specific portion regarding the Elder Dragons, I remember assembling the section from discussion with Continuity, from the calendar (which covered a lot of Legends characters) and the comics themselves. The main issue of controversy back then was Piru's placement, since she was clearly marketed as the "sixth Elder Dragon" when the Dakkon Blackblade book came out (I'd like to stick her as a second generation with the Primevals, which would fit in with all of those characters having single names as opposed to the Elders...maybe the same could be said of Scarzam). In any event I think the debate on their exact natures is moot, because a) the current storyline staff probably have their own ideas on how to develop what was a very blurry backstory to begin with and b) the ED Wars storyline ran around during a period when you had a lot of inconsistencies when it came to who was on Dominia v. Dominaria, e.g. the Thran being referred to as interplanar in some cases, and we never got to see it in anything more than past references.
That having been said, it's clear that the Elders claimed omnipotence in their time, were the first of their kind, eventually came to be reduced to the point where they could be commanded by planeswalkers (regardless of what they were before), and are aware of other planes. It is also clear that the survivors were around long enough after the war to conceive of themselves as "the Five" (long before even the Brothers' War) and that, at least from Chromium's POV, the Elders were intellectual and graceful, and have been around since "the dawn of time," and are "forever." (Implying immortality...or so he claims) The calendar goes further and talks about the Elder Land Wurms being those of the Elders that were stripped of their wings during the ancient war. The rest...I won't try to wade into :), though I for one would love to see this story fleshed out in novels or future sets (albeit consistent with what has been put out there on the subject).
Thanks very much for keeping my site alive, and go Cards.
My interest in revisiting is in a flashback set--I'm well aware we're talking about largely dead characters, although in some cases I think there's a legitimate question (Arcades Sabboth being dead is an indirect deduction off other characters' hearsay; unclear if Asmadi is unsummoned or actually killed, etc.).
I myself had questions to Continuity and Acclaim back in the day about Piru, because she did seem an odd shoehorn in addition to the five. But bear in mind that in the actual source material, she's never referred to as anything BUT an actual Elder. Comics explicitly refer to her as the sixth, and the characters in "Dakkon Blackblade" explicitly call her an Elder. I do agree that it would be clean to assign her, like the original Scarzam dragons (of Sivitri Scarzam), to the first generation after the original five, or a "sub" Elder Dragon--given that they are single-named (that we know) dragons with maybe two colors (UB for Scarzam, I'd guess GB for Piru if I had to). I think I may have had that on the website at one point, although I was later told the creators of the character intended for her to be at the same level as the original five. The question though is, what exactly is an Elder then? You have at least two generations preceding the original five--since Asmadi's the cousin. Then you have a subsequent generation ("sub-Elder") that probably retained the power to cross planes (Scarzam). I think that's probably the proper dividing line, giving us at least four generations of Elders. As for where Piru sits in that, I'd agree that she'd be more comfortably placed in the last category, but she could just as well have been intended to be another cousin like Asmadi of the original five. The point of this all was to say, even if the source material hammers in the idea that only five survived, there's nothing to stop Continuity from introducing a character that sat out the war or otherwise wasn't known to Bolas to have survived, etc.
Jeff
I have to say it's a big compliment that my site is still being discussed. Since it's been such a long time (around 12 years I believe) since I started working on those materials, and in fact I don't even have most of them on hand anymore, my memory could be inexact. However, I was as careful as possible to keep the work "canon." Where there were additions, they were largely in the Arabian Nights portions and those where you had some alignment of real-world mythology or related materials coming in.
In addition to what Pete and I discussed, some of the material that isn't sourced came from the authors of the original line of novels (HarperCollins) and also from some publications that I haven't seem replicated online lately. These don't just include the old Acclaim graphic books, but also the calendars--in particular, there was a 365-pg. pull-away calendar that had storyline vignettes for a lot of the prerevision expansions and characters.
As for the specific portion regarding the Elder Dragons, I remember assembling the section from discussion with Continuity, from the calendar (which covered a lot of Legends characters) and the comics themselves. The main issue of controversy back then was Piru's placement, since she was clearly marketed as the "sixth Elder Dragon" when the Dakkon Blackblade book came out (I'd like to stick her as a second generation with the Primevals, which would fit in with all of those characters having single names as opposed to the Elders...maybe the same could be said of Scarzam). In any event I think the debate on their exact natures is moot, because a) the current storyline staff probably have their own ideas on how to develop what was a very blurry backstory to begin with and b) the ED Wars storyline ran around during a period when you had a lot of inconsistencies when it came to who was on Dominia v. Dominaria, e.g. the Thran being referred to as interplanar in some cases, and we never got to see it in anything more than past references.
That having been said, it's clear that the Elders claimed omnipotence in their time, were the first of their kind, eventually came to be reduced to the point where they could be commanded by planeswalkers (regardless of what they were before), and are aware of other planes. It is also clear that the survivors were around long enough after the war to conceive of themselves as "the Five" (long before even the Brothers' War) and that, at least from Chromium's POV, the Elders were intellectual and graceful, and have been around since "the dawn of time," and are "forever." (Implying immortality...or so he claims) The calendar goes further and talks about the Elder Land Wurms being those of the Elders that were stripped of their wings during the ancient war. The rest...I won't try to wade into :), though I for one would love to see this story fleshed out in novels or future sets (albeit consistent with what has been put out there on the subject).
Thanks very much for keeping my site alive, and go Cards.
Jeff