The only burn spell you should be running is Lightning Bolt. Maybe Volt Charge if you want to be cute and get some extra mileage out of Blastoderm and Saproling Burst (and maybe Ravaging Riftwurm).
Other than the other beatsticks already mentioned, Deadbridge Goliath is another 5-power beater at 4 that can pump a random elf later-on in the game (I'd play it over the Slum). Summit Apes is more fragile beater that is harder to block. Deus of Calamity is another brutal beater at 5. And there's also good old Flametongue Kavu.
How much mileage are you getting out of Hull Breach? It just seems that Destructive Revelry would be better (since it pushes in that little bit of extra damage) unless you keep hitting two targets every time with breach.
How often/fast do you usually get Metalcraft? 13 artifacts seems a bit low to get it consistently. I have 17 artifacts in my RW Stoneforger deck and I still don't seem to get Metalcraft up as early as I would like.
If you can get Metalcraft pretty early on though, you might as well use Galvanic Blast and Dispatch over bolt and swords.
Nahiri, the Lithomancer is pretty good with Sunforger, as it allows for one free equip of Sunforger per turn with her +2.
I'd run a singleton Mistveil Plains as a land since it can recycle your instants for Sunforger.
I also run Etched Champion (great creature overall if you can Metalcraft going consistently and is also an artifact) and Knight of the White Orchid (mostly to fetch my Mistveil Plains or Sacred Foundry). Another creature that might work is Kor Firewalker (survives you Acts and randomly hoses red decks in general).
Above poster is right, the deck isn't really doing anything in the first few turns.
I see a sore lack of Advent of the Wurm. 5/5 Flash Trample for 4 is about as good as Wurms get.
Drain the Well seems a little out of place. And I don't think you need 4 copies of Bathe in Light. 2-3 should be fine.
Also 20 lands is very, VERY little for a deck that needs to ramp to 4-7 mana. I'd say you need at least 23. Blossoming Sands is a dirt cheap dual land that can give you a small life buffer (besides, you're not playing anything on turn 1 anyways).
Unfortunately, Propaganda doesn't stop creatures from attacking Planeswalkers.
I think just trying to mass board presence is the best bet.
Agreed, but I'm not sure what creatures would be best. Wall of Blossoms is great as the deck appreciates the card draw (since I'm effectively running 23 lands + 8 mana sources that do nothing else). I guess I can load up on Oculus-type creatures?
If your walkers are "dying left and right", you need to examine ways to protect them. Playing planeswalkers into an empty board is usually the worst possible thing you can do with them. You want to make sure you have some form of board control to keep them alive. The big advantage of The Chain Veil over Rings of Brightheart is that its one investment to affect multiple walkers. Also, using teferi's -1 can let you activate the chain veil twice if you have 8 mana.
The Veil is only more mana efficient when you have more than 2 walkers though. I do like the additional loyalty counters it grants over the rings, but on the other hand the Rings don't bleed me of life if I run out of walkers and can synergize with creatures... And would the Veil replace the Engines or something else?
Have you considered using Doubling Season to double your planeswalker's starting loyalty?
Yes, but that 25$ price tag scares me (plus I'm Canadian, so that's like 30+ bucks for me). 100USD for a single playset is out of my budget. One day though... One day...
Do note that Vorel of the Hull Clade cannot target your Planeswalkers unless you have the ability to turn them into creatures or artifacts.
Now that you mention it... Better remove him then!
I'd be worried about legend ruling yourself by running 4 copies of walkers. I'd run walkers of different subtypes at 2-3 copies each. Also, The Chain Veil is a shoe-in in superfriends these days.
Considering that tmy walkers are dying left and right anyways unless you're against the durdliest control deck or a combo deck (in which case they just combo off since the deck has no way to interact with combos), I don't mind having 4 of each. Also, any experience with The Chain Veil? Is it better thanRings of Brighthearth?.
If you're not playing multiplayer, I can see Lord of Extinction being underwhelming. You're not filling your own graveyard, so on turn 5 you'll have a vanilla 4/4 or a 5/5? You can do a lot better than that, like Chromanticore or Cromat if you really want to keep the 5 color theme.
Also, Deed seems a bit slow for a sweeper.
Looking at the deck, Maelstrom Archangel is the only reason you have Blue in the deck. Her and Dreadbore are also the only reasons you have Red in the deck. In fact, while the Johnny in me loves all the multicolor madness going on, the Spike in me thinks that you should just ditch those two for Siege Rhinos and Deathrite Shamans and go full Junk instead.
The deck is basically built on the idea that Garruk/Teferi + lands that tap for more than 1 mana = profit. And by "profit" I mean "Contagion Engine shenanigans". The deck should (theoretically) win by via 3/3 Beast token beatdown or Jace "borrowing" stuff from the opponent's deck.
Core Cards:
- Utopia/Wild Growth: What makes the deck tick. The magical christmas land scenario of Growth into Growth into Garruk+Jace on turn 3 sounds hilarious.
- Garruk Wildspeaker: The other main component of the deck. Ramps into the Teferi/Contagion Engine with his +1 and can win the game via attrition with his -2 and -4.
- Teferi, Temporal Archmage: -1 allows for multiple Engine activation per turn. The ultimate looks pretty fun too.
- Contagion Engine: Sweeps the opponent's creatures AND speeds up your walker's ultimates. Mana-intensive, but mana shouldn't be too much of a problem in this deck.
Other Cards:
- Jace, Architect of Thought: Early defense against swarm decks and card draw against the slower ones. Great ultimate, too.
- Cyclonic Rift: Speedbump in early turns, board wipe in the later ones.
- Wall of Blossoms: Cantrips and protects my walkers. Usually not big fan of walls, but it's a better blocker than Elvish Visionary.
- Scavenging Ooze: Grows if you sink enough mana into it. Graveyard hate. Can profit from Proliferate.
- Eternal Witness: Sometimes things just go wrong.
- Vorel of the Hull Clade: Contagion Engines 4-5. Also a decently-sized body to block with. Feels kinda win-more though. Nope, wrong.
Cards I'm considering:
- Kiora's Follower: Redundant untap effect. I don't feel that he's required though.
- Kiora, the Crashing Wave: Could replace Jace. Her + ability is better against single large threats instead of swarms, her - ability doesn't dig as deep but actually ramps and her ultimate is a bit more in-your-face than Jace's.
- Simic Growth Chamber: Land that taps for 2 mana. They would free up 4 maindeck slots, but feels kinda slow.
- Spike Weaver: Becomes a source of infinite Fogs with an Engine up. Unfortunately, it's another 4-drop and my walkers are taking up that spot.
- Tamiyo, the Moon Sage: Another walker with the defensive + ability, card advantage - ability thing going on. Ultimate isn't that hot though since I'm not running a lot of spells.
- Elusive Krasis: Early blocker that turns into a win condition later on.
I feel that the deck has a strong enough lategame, but is very slow in the beginning. Anything that could help protect planeswalkers during the first few turns until they can get their momentum going would be great. Any suggestions would be great.
Thanks in advance!
Edit:
- Removed Vorel since he wasn't doing anything anyways. No idea on what to put instead.
For a Biomancer deck, that's not a lot of creatures. I'd look for ways to just spit out tokens to take advantage of him. Cards like Beetleback Chief, Patagia Viper, Siege Gang Commander and Hornet Queen, that are decent enough to be played on their own but are so much better with a Biomancer or two. No point in being able to generate plenty of +1/+1 counters if you don't have creatures to put them on.
If I were to build this, I'd probably sideboard dueling grounds. It stops a lot of aggro decks in their tracks, but if you're against combo or control the card is awful. I would imagine that control is the biggest threat to exalted though. Is that assessment correct?
Pretty much. Dueling Grounds would be a sweet sideboard card against swarm decks. You can race most creature decks with Double Strike War Monks and whatnot.
I have a very aggressive take on Bant Exalted decks (mostly due to Noble Hierarch), so I find Dueling Ground and Silent Arbiter a bit slow. When I tested it, I found out that I'd rather play a beatstick on turn 3 than Dueling Grounds, so the card was stuck in my hand until turn 5-6. IMHO the strongest asset of a Bant Exalted deck is to make explosive battle phases with Rafiq, Finest Hour and Elspeth. Stopping to play a Dueling Grounds just slows you down.
If you're going for a grindier deck without the Hierarchs though, I think Dueling Grounds could be a a good choice. Perhaps a Junk (I think it's called Abzan now?) version with Siege Rhinos and Blood Barons? Could be worth a shot.
As an Exalted deck player, the main problems with all Exalted decks are:
1. Evasion: it doesn't matter how huge your lone guy is if the opponent can just throw a 1/1 in front of it.
2. Enemy instant-speed removal: you declare your attack, stack up all the Exalted triggers...and your opponent blows your attacking creature away, making you effectively waste a turn.
Because of point 1, I am not a fan of Knotvine Paladin. His ability is pretty irrelevant as he should be big enough from Exalted triggers alone. I would play Aven Squire (or Icefeather Aven, basically any 2-drop with evasion) over him. The only evasion-less creatures that get a pass are Rhox War Monk (big enough to survive bolts before Exalted and his Lifelink is great in races), Qasali Pridemage (sheer utility and lack of decent 2-drops) and Rafiq (explosive power). Another way around this would be equipment. I used to run Behemoth Sledge in ALA standard, but any equip that grants evasion would be fine, really. Closing out a game with a Sledge-wielding Birds of Paradise is hilarious.
Point 2 is pretty easy to solve, as Bant is made of the three best colors for creature protection. Simic Charm and Vines of Vastwood both grant hexproof at instant speed, with the charm being especially versatile. There's always Negate too. Good beaters with some kind of in-built protection like Mirran Crusader also help.
Crystallization and Ardent Plea are bad.
In an ideal world, you would have 4 Rafiqs, 4 Noble Hierarchs and 4 Jenara, Asura of Wars but these card are like 5$ each (Hierarch is 40$ a peice now? WTF?) and out of print, so I can understand if they are out of the option.
7 mana dorks means I get to skip 2-drops. Sometimes I curve out Hierarch -> Jenara -> Rafiq and smash for 10 of turn 3. Simic Charm serves as both protection and removal. Currently testing Brawn and Glory, but these 3 slots can be pretty much anything.
I'd honestly remove the Mana Tithes for Azorius Charms. Tithe is usually a terrible draw after turn 4-5, and since you're UW control, you WILL go past that. If you're struggling in the early-game, Wall of Omens and Timely Reinforcements both help.
Another card I feel that Gods Willing just isn't that great. Hindering Light shields your guys against spot removal and can even stop a random Bolt to the face. Plus, it cantrips instead of Scying, but costs an extra mana. Or you could just run Negate, since very few creatures warrant counters once you have an big angel out. Either way, I wouldn't run a whole set of 4 of any of these and add in more hard counters.
Speaking of counters, 4 Rune Snags > 4 Mana Leaks since they scale better over time. And unless the exile portion is really relevant in your area, Counterspell (costs less mana) or Absorb (gives you a life buffer) might be better.
If you need a little extra mana every turn, I'd honestly slip a few Azorius Signets instead of Venser. While the signets can't do the crazy stuff later in the game that a planes walker does, they do allow you to power out a turn-3 Wrath of God, which might be relevant against some decks.
P.S. Since you're trying to get to 8-9 mana, you might want to go up to about 25-26 lands in the deck. You don't have that much card draw, so in order to be able to reliably play one land a turn you need a higher land count. Utility lands (like Celestial Colonnade) can help mitigate land flood.
Rush of Battle looks kinda bad compared to, say, Obelisk of Urd or even Fortify. Do you feel that you need the Lifelink that bad?
Other though: since most of your guys are humans, Xathrid Necromancer would be a pretty good counter for mass removal (it takes away from the Warrior theme though). Angelic Overseer could also be a big beefy finisher if you can keep recurring Bloodsoaked Champions.
Other than the other beatsticks already mentioned, Deadbridge Goliath is another 5-power beater at 4 that can pump a random elf later-on in the game (I'd play it over the Slum). Summit Apes is more fragile beater that is harder to block. Deus of Calamity is another brutal beater at 5. And there's also good old Flametongue Kavu.
How much mileage are you getting out of Hull Breach? It just seems that Destructive Revelry would be better (since it pushes in that little bit of extra damage) unless you keep hitting two targets every time with breach.
If you can get Metalcraft pretty early on though, you might as well use Galvanic Blast and Dispatch over bolt and swords.
Nahiri, the Lithomancer is pretty good with Sunforger, as it allows for one free equip of Sunforger per turn with her +2.
I'd run a singleton Mistveil Plains as a land since it can recycle your instants for Sunforger.
For the Sunforger toolbox, I run Apostle's Blessing and Wild Ricochet as protection cards. I also run Orim's Thunder over Return to Dust for that extra burn effect (mostly because I run a singleton Pyromancer's Gauntlet so the burn is welcome).
I also run Etched Champion (great creature overall if you can Metalcraft going consistently and is also an artifact) and Knight of the White Orchid (mostly to fetch my Mistveil Plains or Sacred Foundry). Another creature that might work is Kor Firewalker (survives you Acts and randomly hoses red decks in general).
I see a sore lack of Advent of the Wurm. 5/5 Flash Trample for 4 is about as good as Wurms get.
Drain the Well seems a little out of place. And I don't think you need 4 copies of Bathe in Light. 2-3 should be fine.
Also 20 lands is very, VERY little for a deck that needs to ramp to 4-7 mana. I'd say you need at least 23. Blossoming Sands is a dirt cheap dual land that can give you a small life buffer (besides, you're not playing anything on turn 1 anyways).
Agreed, but I'm not sure what creatures would be best. Wall of Blossoms is great as the deck appreciates the card draw (since I'm effectively running 23 lands + 8 mana sources that do nothing else). I guess I can load up on Oculus-type creatures?
The Veil is only more mana efficient when you have more than 2 walkers though. I do like the additional loyalty counters it grants over the rings, but on the other hand the Rings don't bleed me of life if I run out of walkers and can synergize with creatures... And would the Veil replace the Engines or something else?
Yes, but that 25$ price tag scares me (plus I'm Canadian, so that's like 30+ bucks for me). 100USD for a single playset is out of my budget. One day though... One day...
Now that you mention it... Better remove him then!
Considering that tmy walkers are dying left and right anyways unless you're against the durdliest control deck or a combo deck (in which case they just combo off since the deck has no way to interact with combos), I don't mind having 4 of each. Also, any experience with The Chain Veil? Is it better thanRings of Brighthearth?.
Any opinions on Treasure Mage? He would help fetch my engines and maybe some alternate finishers like Wurmcoil Engine, Inkwell Leviathan or Steel Hellkite.
Also, Deed seems a bit slow for a sweeper.
Looking at the deck, Maelstrom Archangel is the only reason you have Blue in the deck. Her and Dreadbore are also the only reasons you have Red in the deck. In fact, while the Johnny in me loves all the multicolor madness going on, the Spike in me thinks that you should just ditch those two for Siege Rhinos and Deathrite Shamans and go full Junk instead.
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Yavimaya Coast
8 Forest
3 Island
2 Eternal Witness
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
3 Contagion Engine
4 Cyclonic Rift
The deck is basically built on the idea that Garruk/Teferi + lands that tap for more than 1 mana = profit. And by "profit" I mean "Contagion Engine shenanigans". The deck should (theoretically) win by via 3/3 Beast token beatdown or Jace "borrowing" stuff from the opponent's deck.
Core Cards:
- Utopia/Wild Growth: What makes the deck tick. The magical christmas land scenario of Growth into Growth into Garruk+Jace on turn 3 sounds hilarious.
- Garruk Wildspeaker: The other main component of the deck. Ramps into the Teferi/Contagion Engine with his +1 and can win the game via attrition with his -2 and -4.
- Teferi, Temporal Archmage: -1 allows for multiple Engine activation per turn. The ultimate looks pretty fun too.
- Contagion Engine: Sweeps the opponent's creatures AND speeds up your walker's ultimates. Mana-intensive, but mana shouldn't be too much of a problem in this deck.
Other Cards:
- Jace, Architect of Thought: Early defense against swarm decks and card draw against the slower ones. Great ultimate, too.
- Cyclonic Rift: Speedbump in early turns, board wipe in the later ones.
- Wall of Blossoms: Cantrips and protects my walkers. Usually not big fan of walls, but it's a better blocker than Elvish Visionary.
- Scavenging Ooze: Grows if you sink enough mana into it. Graveyard hate. Can profit from Proliferate.
- Eternal Witness: Sometimes things just go wrong.
-
Vorel of the Hull Clade: Contagion Engines 4-5. Also a decently-sized body to block with. Feels kinda win-more though.Nope, wrong.Cards I'm considering:
- Kiora's Follower: Redundant untap effect. I don't feel that he's required though.
- Kiora, the Crashing Wave: Could replace Jace. Her + ability is better against single large threats instead of swarms, her - ability doesn't dig as deep but actually ramps and her ultimate is a bit more in-your-face than Jace's.
- Simic Growth Chamber: Land that taps for 2 mana. They would free up 4 maindeck slots, but feels kinda slow.
- Spike Weaver: Becomes a source of infinite Fogs with an Engine up. Unfortunately, it's another 4-drop and my walkers are taking up that spot.
- Tamiyo, the Moon Sage: Another walker with the defensive + ability, card advantage - ability thing going on. Ultimate isn't that hot though since I'm not running a lot of spells.
- Elusive Krasis: Early blocker that turns into a win condition later on.
I feel that the deck has a strong enough lategame, but is very slow in the beginning. Anything that could help protect planeswalkers during the first few turns until they can get their momentum going would be great. Any suggestions would be great.
Thanks in advance!
Edit:
- Removed Vorel since he wasn't doing anything anyways. No idea on what to put instead.
Aluren would be amazing, allowing you to ambush stuff. So would be Immortal Servitude.
Pretty much. Dueling Grounds would be a sweet sideboard card against swarm decks. You can race most creature decks with Double Strike War Monks and whatnot.
I have a very aggressive take on Bant Exalted decks (mostly due to Noble Hierarch), so I find Dueling Ground and Silent Arbiter a bit slow. When I tested it, I found out that I'd rather play a beatstick on turn 3 than Dueling Grounds, so the card was stuck in my hand until turn 5-6. IMHO the strongest asset of a Bant Exalted deck is to make explosive battle phases with Rafiq, Finest Hour and Elspeth. Stopping to play a Dueling Grounds just slows you down.
If you're going for a grindier deck without the Hierarchs though, I think Dueling Grounds could be a a good choice. Perhaps a Junk (I think it's called Abzan now?) version with Siege Rhinos and Blood Barons? Could be worth a shot.
1. Evasion: it doesn't matter how huge your lone guy is if the opponent can just throw a 1/1 in front of it.
2. Enemy instant-speed removal: you declare your attack, stack up all the Exalted triggers...and your opponent blows your attacking creature away, making you effectively waste a turn.
Because of point 1, I am not a fan of Knotvine Paladin. His ability is pretty irrelevant as he should be big enough from Exalted triggers alone. I would play Aven Squire (or Icefeather Aven, basically any 2-drop with evasion) over him. The only evasion-less creatures that get a pass are Rhox War Monk (big enough to survive bolts before Exalted and his Lifelink is great in races), Qasali Pridemage (sheer utility and lack of decent 2-drops) and Rafiq (explosive power). Another way around this would be equipment. I used to run Behemoth Sledge in ALA standard, but any equip that grants evasion would be fine, really. Closing out a game with a Sledge-wielding Birds of Paradise is hilarious.
Point 2 is pretty easy to solve, as Bant is made of the three best colors for creature protection. Simic Charm and Vines of Vastwood both grant hexproof at instant speed, with the charm being especially versatile. There's always Negate too. Good beaters with some kind of in-built protection like Mirran Crusader also help.
Crystallization and Ardent Plea are bad.
In an ideal world, you would have 4 Rafiqs, 4 Noble Hierarchs and 4 Jenara, Asura of Wars but these card are like 5$ each (Hierarch is 40$ a peice now? WTF?) and out of print, so I can understand if they are out of the option.
I'll throw in my current decklist:
4x Temple Garden
4x Breeding Pool
3x Glacial Fortress
2x Hinterland Harbor
2x Sunpetal Grove
1x Moorland Haunt
2x Forest
1x Plains
1x Island
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Qasali Pridemage
4x Rhox War Monk
4x Jenara, Asura of War
4x Rafiq of the Many
3x Mirran Crusader
2x Brawn
1x Glory
4x Simic Charm
2x Finest Hour
7 mana dorks means I get to skip 2-drops. Sometimes I curve out Hierarch -> Jenara -> Rafiq and smash for 10 of turn 3. Simic Charm serves as both protection and removal. Currently testing Brawn and Glory, but these 3 slots can be pretty much anything.
Another card I feel that Gods Willing just isn't that great. Hindering Light shields your guys against spot removal and can even stop a random Bolt to the face. Plus, it cantrips instead of Scying, but costs an extra mana. Or you could just run Negate, since very few creatures warrant counters once you have an big angel out. Either way, I wouldn't run a whole set of 4 of any of these and add in more hard counters.
Speaking of counters, 4 Rune Snags > 4 Mana Leaks since they scale better over time. And unless the exile portion is really relevant in your area, Counterspell (costs less mana) or Absorb (gives you a life buffer) might be better.
If you need a little extra mana every turn, I'd honestly slip a few Azorius Signets instead of Venser. While the signets can't do the crazy stuff later in the game that a planes walker does, they do allow you to power out a turn-3 Wrath of God, which might be relevant against some decks.
I personally prefer Impulse and Accumulated Knowledge over Think Twice as card draw.
Depending on your budget, there's also Detention Sphere (over Oblivion Ring), Snapcaster Mage (don't use him with Accumulated Knowledge and Rune Snag), Celestial Colonnade (Serra Angel in land form), and an Elspeth (with Elspeth Tirel being the worst).
P.S. Since you're trying to get to 8-9 mana, you might want to go up to about 25-26 lands in the deck. You don't have that much card draw, so in order to be able to reliably play one land a turn you need a higher land count. Utility lands (like Celestial Colonnade) can help mitigate land flood.
Rush of Battle looks kinda bad compared to, say, Obelisk of Urd or even Fortify. Do you feel that you need the Lifelink that bad?
Other though: since most of your guys are humans, Xathrid Necromancer would be a pretty good counter for mass removal (it takes away from the Warrior theme though). Angelic Overseer could also be a big beefy finisher if you can keep recurring Bloodsoaked Champions.
Azorius Charm would fit in pretty well. It slows the opponent down early game and cycles itself later on.