It’s been awhile since I last played the breakfast of champions, and after t8ing the last iq with affinity, I’m finally going to scratch this itch and unretire this deck.
I know the sb is fairly mainstream, but I usually like to have more of a variety of cards in my board. Being said, just a thought, what are people’s thoughts on a 2-of shapers’ sanctuary in the board, splashing a temple garden explicitly for it? Path/push will likely get us still, but the extra card gets us one step closer to finding an answer(leave/chance or swan song) or a replacement engine. (Sorry for the lack of hyperlinks, my phone apparently can’t link lol)
So what's peoples' thoughts on creatures winning instead of a combo win? cards like vile manifestation and hollow one come to mind and we back them up with countervailing winds? If you still want to "combo" I'm gonna try a list with faith of the devoted as the main combocon and shave copies of new perspectives itself.
My apologies for the lack of hyperlinks idk the way to longhand it and my phone doesn't allow me to insert them
If I may ask, since I'm just starting to make goblins and I don't know a whole lot about the legacy format(I played oops all spells for a time but that doesn't technically have a "bad or "good" matchup if you have a t1 lol) but how does this beat sneak and show(or reanimator for that matter)? I feel as a fair deck we can't race a t2 grislebrand. Any ideas?
hi guys! Long time bot player but first time posting here. On the thought of galblast it's only really good against an aggressive meta. Now don't get me wrong I'm not a fan of Thoughtcast but it might be required as at least a 1 or 2 of. I know the board is tight but can the remaining blasts come out of the board for those mus? Also, what's everybody's opinions on possibly playing metallic rebuke over spell pierce? The idea of nabbing kataki gives it promise in my eyes
Also tell your friend the days of 1 Grapeshot list are past according to me. ;-)
does everyone think the same?
im interested. grapeshot is a dead card, you just need it when you want to close.
if they discard grape, you still have 2 instant card to bring it back or save it for the exile.
i play a second winc condition sideboard.
I personally am on 1 grapeshot 2 noxious revival. Revival allows more ways to go off whereas a second grapeshot just means you have more wincons. I board into ghirapur aether grid if I need a second wincon. Usually if you're using a cranial extraction-esque effect on us, it's more than likely retract before grapeshot anyway. But if you're boarding those effects in, you're gonna get crushed before you can cast that anyway. May be in the minority nowadays, but I feel only 1 grapeshot is necessary
As far as alternate win cons go, I think aether grid is the best one, only because it can slowly kill the opponent even if an engine isn't present. Molten nursery is interesting in the face of chalice, but it doesn't stop the chalice itself, which I feel we need to do. Aether grid brings out my affinity mindset, any deck that can play stony silence will see an aether grid. So chalice probably isn't in the same board as stony silence. If it is, fragmentize will deal with that. Just my take on sbing
I was at kirwan's went 6-3 and got 38th, another player went 7-2 and made 10th place. To say we didn't stand a chance is just not true. It would've been tough from the t8 lists, but against elves, abzan coco, and burn it's a coinflip at worst. We also just race against grishoalbrand. I lost to the Jeskai player on camera r4 but only because of a mull to 4 game 3 and I still got rolling and required him to go topdeck mode against me. The only decks I would have feared then were the jund list and the 8-rack deck. I had already beaten grixis thanks to a t1 pally so I would know how to play against it
Twisted Image is a cute idea that opens up paladin to Bolt removal. I also don't understand your example. You would need haste to make this situation better. Twisted Image also would have to linger in your hand until then...
If we're thinking about going that route for winning, Assault Formation was mentioned to me yesterday as an alt wincon. I started laughing because of how cute it could be.
As promised, my tournament report from regionals today:
Regionals:244 people showed up
Rd1: mono G devotion 2-1 1-0
G1: goes utopia sprawl voyaging satyr into double overgrowth. Nissa and prime time get the game as I draw blanks with sram
G2: t1 paladin. T2 sram and win
G3: he mulls to 5 and keeps no lands arbor elf. Never draws the land. T2 paladin t3 win
Rd2: grixis 2-1 2-0
Played against Gerard Fabiano and knew I had to play my best match so far.
G1: couldn't stop t2 paladin t3 sram with swan song backup
G2: game goes long as I whiff a couple times on triggers of sram. Then goes thoughtseize/snapcaster thoughtseize hitting my retract and outcome. Couldn't come back
G3: t1 paladin underneath iok hitting sram and seeing my saw in hand. Hit him down to 4 with a few swings and grapeshot for the rest
Rd3: burn 2-1 3-0
G1: had a good hand but misplayed swan song to the flames of the blood hand. Died to a 3rd bolt
G2: had gotten down to 3 to triple swiftspear. Played my hand of double retract with 3 equips/Opal to get to 12 storm. Killed the swiftspears and 6 to him. Hardcasted leyline and forgetender along with a huge paladin get there
G3: t0 leyline met t2 destructive revelry. whiffed initially on the t2 paladin. But drew into forgetender. He realized real fast that swan song counters eidolon on his turn and with 2 mana up he couldn't get through the paladin and forgetender and I stormed off.
Rd4: Jeskai counterburn 1-2 3-1
Backup feature match
G1: apparently he had the path in hand but let me combo off t2. Ok we'll take those
G2: vendilion cliqued my retract while paladin is out so I play noxious revival targeting it. He pathed and had backup for my swan song. Didn't find another engine in time facing down bolts and helixes
The feature match ends as we're sbing between games 2 and 3 and we got called for our game 3 to be on stream
G3: I mull to 4 but am able to start comboing off, but stall. This gave him enough time to stabilize with ven clique and I couldn't get another equipment and he burned me out.
After the match another player on Cheerios is being deck teched lol.
Rd5: Titan breach 1-2 3-2
G1: mull to 5 with 1 land and no engine. Serum visions doesn't find it and he freely is able to do basically whatever he wanted.
G2: t1 paladin/retract into t2 paladin is the best I could ever ask for in this deck
G3: didn't realize they board into chalice. So the t1 chalice on 0 wrecks me. I try to store up 0s while I wait for sram but he t5 breaches into primetime and does 18 to me. Oh well.
R6:abzan coco(?) 2-1 4-2
G1: kept a sketchy hand and didn't pay off in time. He slammed infinite life combo and I scooped it up
G2: his t1 birds met my t2 paladin with a few equips and passed with Opal up. He plays engineered explosives X=0 but misses his second land drop. I echoing truth the bird forcing the activation and retract in response to EE. T4 drop sram then draw my deck and slam lab man for the win.
G3: t1 bird t2 voice of resurgence met my t2 sram. I drew my deck
I didn't see a copy of company or chord the entire match.
R7:ad nauseum 2-1 5-2
G1: t2 paladin with only 2 equipment with a second paladin in hand. t3 ad nauseum
G2:t4 leyline hardcasted for opponent. Fragmentize into paladin the following turn and combo out.
G3: intense game! He had 1 mana up for the angel's grace as I was going off, looking exclusively for swan song(yes I realize it doesn't stop angel's grace, but he had enough mana for ad nauseum follow up).It was the 5th from the bottom! Grapeshot got him to 1. He played all 4 graces and had lab man block trying to deck me out. I throw down 2 more Paladins and win through combat as I draw the last card in my deck.
Rd8: dredge 2-0 6-2
Easily my easiest match of the night.
G1: sram t2 into t3 paladin. Draw my deck
G2: sram t2. Draw my deck.
He played a grand total of 4 spells the entire match lol
Rd9: grixis 0-2 6-3
A buddy of mine just grabs me and with a frustrated tone tells me we're playing. Why the final round?!
G1: engines got bolted or pushed and got away from me real fast as he just slammed snaps and a clique and beat me down.
G2: double sram 3 cheers serum sacred foundry opener. Keep the hand. Don't find my second land until t4. By then he has the counters or the pushes for sram.
End of my shot of prizing but all in all great night. Ended up 38th at 6-3, and another player ended up 10th at 7-2. It is very consistent and it punishes a lot of the format.
Looking forward, I will probably cut to 1 outcome board, and possibly go back to Erayo in the board, as the tougher matchups seem to rely on 1-2 spells a turn. Even countering one of them may turn a match in my favor. Also if they push/bolt/etc Erayo it's less removal for the engines.
Fragmentize does everything wear/tear does for 1 mana. The cavern is to go upto 15 lands vs grixis decks and the like to force down the original engine. Forge-tender to get around eidolon mainly and leyline and outcome for decks with fatal push. Reports to follow after the tournament
F. Play Sram and Pass. If you can choose what engine do you expose to removal: Choose Sram first
While I agree that sram is the one that leads matches where you have both, instead of passing, wouldn't you play one equip instead? If they have the removal they have to use it on the first cast trigger otherwise it can spiral out of control real fast. Worst case scenario he replaces himself.
So my friend brought it to my attention that this made t4 in an online tournament. What is everyone's thoughts on it? This looks like a throwback to the original lists that were played when Puresteel was first spoiled. Is 25 Cheerios a lot? Is 17 lands too many?
Now that fatal push has been spoiled I have a feeling jund/abzan is going to be on the rise. Could it be correct for the decks that play leyline to potentially md it? It may brick the combo, but the potential to steal games with a t0 leyline into t2 engine starter. Thoughts?
I've tested with and without Gaveleer and with and without mentor. Gaveleer dies to the same things as paladin dies to(the terminates,bolts,paths,etc. of the world) whereas a mentor if left unchecked for even one turn can turn into an army that only a select number of cards can take care of. That being said, Gaveleer is a powerhouse in itself if left around, but it requires a different shell(sigarda's aid variants). its a matter of preference tbh, but mentor is extremely powerful vs the field.
Hi guys, new to the deck. I've proxied the cards and tried this deck this weekend for fun. Is it just me or the deck lack consistence?
A lot of times i get nothing but cheerios with nothing else that does something. A lot of the times, i get clunky hands (i'm running gameshark2k2 with
some slight changes). Drawing mass hysteria with no creature on the board, having riddlesmith with no ovalchase. Getting a hand with a damn
high curve (reservoir, mentor, paradoxical outcome and jeskai ascendancy with 2 lands and a cheerios). When you get a good hand, it can be a beast
but 60% of the time, i get crappy hand and get destroyed (i've tested agaisn't bant eldrazi and merfolk).
i don't know if i'm doing something wrong and that's why i'm asking for enlightment
Thx!
Welcome to the breakfast of champions tijo! I hope you are enjoying the deck so far.
As far as opening hands go, usually it's an enabler or bust when it comes to keeping. I keep Paladins in hand with 1,sometimes even 0 lands (very select hands - usually involving mantle and ornithopter or Opal with metalcraft hands) since I theoretically have a better chance to rip a land than a paladin effect. If it doesn't have at least one draw effect it's a snap mull. I do understand that some of the cards are very wonky if drawn before the combo begins, but the synergy with the other cards make certain cards "staples" for the deck(mass hysteria if on mentor plan, etc). The deck absolutely beats itself a portion of the time and that's to be expected with a deck playing a majority of cards that do legitimately nothing on their own, but the key is to limit that by knowing when to mulligan and when to keep. That will come as you gain experience with it. Hope this helps in your future endeavors with the deck
I know the sb is fairly mainstream, but I usually like to have more of a variety of cards in my board. Being said, just a thought, what are people’s thoughts on a 2-of shapers’ sanctuary in the board, splashing a temple garden explicitly for it? Path/push will likely get us still, but the extra card gets us one step closer to finding an answer(leave/chance or swan song) or a replacement engine. (Sorry for the lack of hyperlinks, my phone apparently can’t link lol)
My apologies for the lack of hyperlinks idk the way to longhand it and my phone doesn't allow me to insert them
I personally am on 1 grapeshot 2 noxious revival. Revival allows more ways to go off whereas a second grapeshot just means you have more wincons. I board into ghirapur aether grid if I need a second wincon. Usually if you're using a cranial extraction-esque effect on us, it's more than likely retract before grapeshot anyway. But if you're boarding those effects in, you're gonna get crushed before you can cast that anyway. May be in the minority nowadays, but I feel only 1 grapeshot is necessary
I was at kirwan's went 6-3 and got 38th, another player went 7-2 and made 10th place. To say we didn't stand a chance is just not true. It would've been tough from the t8 lists, but against elves, abzan coco, and burn it's a coinflip at worst. We also just race against grishoalbrand. I lost to the Jeskai player on camera r4 but only because of a mull to 4 game 3 and I still got rolling and required him to go topdeck mode against me. The only decks I would have feared then were the jund list and the 8-rack deck. I had already beaten grixis thanks to a t1 pally so I would know how to play against it
If we're thinking about going that route for winning, Assault Formation was mentioned to me yesterday as an alt wincon. I started laughing because of how cute it could be.
Regionals:244 people showed up
Rd1: mono G devotion 2-1 1-0
G1: goes utopia sprawl voyaging satyr into double overgrowth. Nissa and prime time get the game as I draw blanks with sram
G2: t1 paladin. T2 sram and win
G3: he mulls to 5 and keeps no lands arbor elf. Never draws the land. T2 paladin t3 win
Rd2: grixis 2-1 2-0
Played against Gerard Fabiano and knew I had to play my best match so far.
G1: couldn't stop t2 paladin t3 sram with swan song backup
G2: game goes long as I whiff a couple times on triggers of sram. Then goes thoughtseize/snapcaster thoughtseize hitting my retract and outcome. Couldn't come back
G3: t1 paladin underneath iok hitting sram and seeing my saw in hand. Hit him down to 4 with a few swings and grapeshot for the rest
Rd3: burn 2-1 3-0
G1: had a good hand but misplayed swan song to the flames of the blood hand. Died to a 3rd bolt
G2: had gotten down to 3 to triple swiftspear. Played my hand of double retract with 3 equips/Opal to get to 12 storm. Killed the swiftspears and 6 to him. Hardcasted leyline and forgetender along with a huge paladin get there
G3: t0 leyline met t2 destructive revelry. whiffed initially on the t2 paladin. But drew into forgetender. He realized real fast that swan song counters eidolon on his turn and with 2 mana up he couldn't get through the paladin and forgetender and I stormed off.
Rd4: Jeskai counterburn 1-2 3-1
Backup feature match
G1: apparently he had the path in hand but let me combo off t2. Ok we'll take those
G2: vendilion cliqued my retract while paladin is out so I play noxious revival targeting it. He pathed and had backup for my swan song. Didn't find another engine in time facing down bolts and helixes
The feature match ends as we're sbing between games 2 and 3 and we got called for our game 3 to be on stream
G3: I mull to 4 but am able to start comboing off, but stall. This gave him enough time to stabilize with ven clique and I couldn't get another equipment and he burned me out.
After the match another player on Cheerios is being deck teched lol.
Rd5: Titan breach 1-2 3-2
G1: mull to 5 with 1 land and no engine. Serum visions doesn't find it and he freely is able to do basically whatever he wanted.
G2: t1 paladin/retract into t2 paladin is the best I could ever ask for in this deck
G3: didn't realize they board into chalice. So the t1 chalice on 0 wrecks me. I try to store up 0s while I wait for sram but he t5 breaches into primetime and does 18 to me. Oh well.
R6:abzan coco(?) 2-1 4-2
G1: kept a sketchy hand and didn't pay off in time. He slammed infinite life combo and I scooped it up
G2: his t1 birds met my t2 paladin with a few equips and passed with Opal up. He plays engineered explosives X=0 but misses his second land drop. I echoing truth the bird forcing the activation and retract in response to EE. T4 drop sram then draw my deck and slam lab man for the win.
G3: t1 bird t2 voice of resurgence met my t2 sram. I drew my deck
I didn't see a copy of company or chord the entire match.
R7:ad nauseum 2-1 5-2
G1: t2 paladin with only 2 equipment with a second paladin in hand. t3 ad nauseum
G2:t4 leyline hardcasted for opponent. Fragmentize into paladin the following turn and combo out.
G3: intense game! He had 1 mana up for the angel's grace as I was going off, looking exclusively for swan song(yes I realize it doesn't stop angel's grace, but he had enough mana for ad nauseum follow up).It was the 5th from the bottom! Grapeshot got him to 1. He played all 4 graces and had lab man block trying to deck me out. I throw down 2 more Paladins and win through combat as I draw the last card in my deck.
Rd8: dredge 2-0 6-2
Easily my easiest match of the night.
G1: sram t2 into t3 paladin. Draw my deck
G2: sram t2. Draw my deck.
He played a grand total of 4 spells the entire match lol
Rd9: grixis 0-2 6-3
A buddy of mine just grabs me and with a frustrated tone tells me we're playing. Why the final round?!
G1: engines got bolted or pushed and got away from me real fast as he just slammed snaps and a clique and beat me down.
G2: double sram 3 cheers serum sacred foundry opener. Keep the hand. Don't find my second land until t4. By then he has the counters or the pushes for sram.
End of my shot of prizing but all in all great night. Ended up 38th at 6-3, and another player ended up 10th at 7-2. It is very consistent and it punishes a lot of the format.
Looking forward, I will probably cut to 1 outcome board, and possibly go back to Erayo in the board, as the tougher matchups seem to rely on 1-2 spells a turn. Even countering one of them may turn a match in my favor. Also if they push/bolt/etc Erayo it's less removal for the engines.
4 Puresteel Paladin
4 Sram, Senior Edificer
Sorceries: (5)
4 Serum Visions
1 Grapeshot
Instants: (8)
4 Retract
2 Noxious Revival
2 Swan Song
Artifacts: (25)
2 Bone Saw
3 Paradise Mantle
4 Spidersilk Net
4 Cathar's Shield
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Kite Shield
4 Mox Opal
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Plains
1 Island
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Echoing Truth
2 Fragmentize
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Ghirapur Æther Grid
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Paradoxical Outcome
1 Laboratory Maniac
Fragmentize does everything wear/tear does for 1 mana. The cavern is to go upto 15 lands vs grixis decks and the like to force down the original engine. Forge-tender to get around eidolon mainly and leyline and outcome for decks with fatal push. Reports to follow after the tournament
While I agree that sram is the one that leads matches where you have both, instead of passing, wouldn't you play one equip instead? If they have the removal they have to use it on the first cast trigger otherwise it can spiral out of control real fast. Worst case scenario he replaces himself.
So my friend brought it to my attention that this made t4 in an online tournament. What is everyone's thoughts on it? This looks like a throwback to the original lists that were played when Puresteel was first spoiled. Is 25 Cheerios a lot? Is 17 lands too many?
Now that fatal push has been spoiled I have a feeling jund/abzan is going to be on the rise. Could it be correct for the decks that play leyline to potentially md it? It may brick the combo, but the potential to steal games with a t0 leyline into t2 engine starter. Thoughts?
Welcome to the breakfast of champions tijo! I hope you are enjoying the deck so far.
As far as opening hands go, usually it's an enabler or bust when it comes to keeping. I keep Paladins in hand with 1,sometimes even 0 lands (very select hands - usually involving mantle and ornithopter or Opal with metalcraft hands) since I theoretically have a better chance to rip a land than a paladin effect. If it doesn't have at least one draw effect it's a snap mull. I do understand that some of the cards are very wonky if drawn before the combo begins, but the synergy with the other cards make certain cards "staples" for the deck(mass hysteria if on mentor plan, etc). The deck absolutely beats itself a portion of the time and that's to be expected with a deck playing a majority of cards that do legitimately nothing on their own, but the key is to limit that by knowing when to mulligan and when to keep. That will come as you gain experience with it. Hope this helps in your future endeavors with the deck