Yeah, I have been having problems with fast starts from aggro. I'm probably going to add more spot removal to help out. However the land base seems fine for me so far. I've actually been stuck on lands more often than been flooded. I have cut the spires already as they're pretty bad, but Panoramas are great in block.
Tez doesnt have to fetch combo pieces; more often he gets me capsules to slow them down with. Corpse Connoisseur is also better than you give him credit. He sets you up for the combo very well.
I'm hesitant to transform the deck into midrange, but I do like some of the cards you use. Sculptor seems nice, as does Scourglass. But the other cards are too aggro-oriented for my version. However, if your version has been doing well, I'd love to see the decklist. Thanks for the input, in any case.
This is a deck based around the double Sharuum the Hegemon combo. For those of you who dont now how it works, heres how it goes: You have to get 1 Sharuym in the graveyard and put another into play. The second one reanimates the first. When the second one comes into play, its effect triggers and goes on the stack. Before it can resolve, state based effects are checked and both Sharuums die due to the legend rule. Then the effect resolves, returning one Sharuum to play, which then returns the other, and the loop starts again. To stop the loop, when the first Sharuum comes into play, just have it target something other than another Sharuum.
There are a lot of ways to abuse the combo, even in block, but I chose Deathgreeter to finish the combo with, as it will allow me to gain infinte life. Why this over options like Hissing Isinguar or Glaze Fiend? Firstly, its black so I dont have to go into a fourth color. I also didn't want to rely on attacking to complete the combo either, as your giant glaze fiend or whatever can be taken out pretty easily. Meanwhile, Deathgreeter is just one mana, and so can be played on "The Turn" and thus avoid most removal.
the (still rough) decklist:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation
Tezzeret is there mainly as a tutor. However, it also can be an alternate win condition vs control and be a distraction for aggro. Connoisseur is awesome here as he can dump two Sharuums straight into your yard. Gargoyle and Protomatter Powder serve as reanimation effects, and are very versatile, allowing you to get back combo pieces prematurely killed, or gain card advantage through recurring capsules. It's worth noting that Powder + Sharuum is a kind of combo in itself. Finally, we have the capsules, O - rings, and Coups. These are basically there to keep you alive until you can combo off.
This list is still rough and hasn't been heavily tested or anything. Some other interesting options I'm contemplating are 1x Onyx Goblet, for inevitability once you're at infinte life and Sphinx Summoner as another tutor. Sideboard is still up in the air, as I wanted to get a solid main deck first. I would love to hear any input or suggestions you guys have on this deck!
Hey guys, I'm new to this thread, and started playing Naya Zoo a week or so back. I've got some questions about Saito's list, in particular, his sideboard. For reference, here it is:
3 Ranger of Eos
3 Volcanic Fallout
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Rule of Law
1 Ancient Grudge
1. Why only 1 Grudge? Artifact removal seems pretty important for this deck. Does O-Ring double up as your main artifact removal? If so they seem way too clunky and slow as your main answer to artifacts.
2. Fallout seems nice vs Faeries, but other blue decks cropping up run less little men and more Goyfs, possibly decreasing the value of this card. I maybe wrong, but Sulfuric Vortex has been great for me, and I would rather have those in this slot.
3. Ranger of Eos is a really nice engine, but what do you use it against? Loam and the Mirror? When would you side these in and what would you take out?
It would be great if you could shed some light on some or all of these questions. Thanks in advance.
Its tested fairly well vs the random jank of MWS. I agree 4 elspeth is too much, I'll cut those down to 2-3. But I've really been liking Lapse. The card is really good in the format and very underrated IMO, as many times its essentially a time walk. Oblivion Ring should be in there somewhere too, I guess I could replace paths with it though. The only problem with this is that so many people in block pack their own O-rings, making it not as effective as you would like.
Basically, I want to protect my planeswalkers as long as possible while getting as much juice out of them as possible. The list is a bit rough, so don't be too harsh
I think the boatload of decks on the first page is clunky and will intimidate new people from joining the thread. Feel free to remove mine, as I've stopped working on the deck anyway.
Valid points, all. I'll work some Warhammers into my list.
Overkill - I also like the idea of having sweepers in the board. I agree that Firespout, though getting red mana is tougher than black for us, may be better, as decks we would want spouts against usually have anthems to negate infest.
I did some more testing... with 3x Rafiq, 4x Doran... the standard inclusions then 2x Nameless and 2x Path, 2x Warhammer, and 2x Thresh.
I have yet to lose with the deck... although I haven't tested enough for that to mean anything...
What I'm finding... best way to combat board sweeping/overextending is to drop Loxodon Warhammer right after your first fattie and keep the hammer on a creature for the rest of the game.
I've also been running 4x Reflecting Pool. Simply phenomenal with the zigg.
My testing was against B/W Tokens (4-0) and Mono U Fae (5-0),
Cloudthresher was surprisingly irrelevant in the Fae MU I tested... They were usually about to lose by the time I pieced the mana together to cast him... but I can see how valuable they are in the mid game, evidence shown in the B/W Tokens MU...
Wrath is too slow and when they finally do, down would come Thresher...
Also, Warhammer + Rhox War Monk is a house.
Drop a Rafiq and it just gets stupid.
3/4... +3/+0, 6/4.
Attack with Rafiq in play... 7/5, double strike, lifelink, lifelink trample.
14 trampling damage, gain 28 life. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Firstly, lol at mono U fae. Anyway, I would like to see your list. Sounds like mine, but with 2 warhammers thrown in over a path and nameless. Have the warhammers slowed you down at all? Thats the main reason I found myself cutting it, as I hated having it in my opening hand over a critter or removal most of the time.
@scrubzilla- It wasn't really much of a question for me. It was just Robinson didn't have any in his list, which struck me as surprising at least.
Also, robinson had 2x treetops, but I really didn't like the CiPT for this deck and my 5cc matchup was actually pretty good already. What have you guys found about this?
Elspeth sounds solid, despite the huge amount of tokens flying around. The problem is, how consistently can you cast it running 4 ziggurat? I would be hesitant to run a 4 mana non-creature spell in a deck like this. I'll definitely try them out though.
Oh whoops, sorry for that 5k misunderstanding. Anyway to reiterate my question, is the 2 damage from Countersquall worth running it over negate? I tried Countersquall for a while (like one game, lol) and found that I couldn't cast it when I needed to due to the BU mana cost. I immediately switched back to negate, deciding I would be better off to be able to consistently cast my counter than to be able to deal 2 occassionaly. I may have been too hasty though. Anyone else have this problem?
Also, why wouldn't you guys take this to a 5K. It can be competitive as Robinson proved(21 points in the standard portion), and it has a nice surprise factor as well.
Also, Countersquall over Negate? I still think that's wrong. 2 points of damage is just not worth making the card twice as tough to cast.
Firstly, I would just like to say Gaddock Teeg is a house, great call by Robinson. Its just such a good card in the metagame right now, as it keeps literally every deck off one card or another, including Spectral Procession. It's also like a lightning rod for this very reason, and thats great as it pulls removal away from our big guys. I think all versions should run this guy in some number in their 75.
Onto the thresher arguement. I'm not sure if this guy is entierly needed maindeck. Sure it destroys SpecProc tokens, but Teeg is enough of an anwser to that maindeck. So thresher's usefulness in those matchup's (Boat Brew and BW) is significantly lessened. The only deck it completely hoses - Faeries - is a good matchup already and is dropping in popularity. We can still hardcast as an instant speed fatty, but it costs 6 mana. I think its a great sb card for us, but not needed maindeck.
MWS Nickname: [MTGS]dragon1299
Country: US
Time Zone: GMT-6
Available: Random times. Mostly late at night.
Tier 1 Decks: RG Ramp, RDW, WWu Aggro
Testing: GB Heartless Summoning, Uw Illusions
Tez doesnt have to fetch combo pieces; more often he gets me capsules to slow them down with. Corpse Connoisseur is also better than you give him credit. He sets you up for the combo very well.
I'm hesitant to transform the deck into midrange, but I do like some of the cards you use. Sculptor seems nice, as does Scourglass. But the other cards are too aggro-oriented for my version. However, if your version has been doing well, I'd love to see the decklist. Thanks for the input, in any case.
There are a lot of ways to abuse the combo, even in block, but I chose Deathgreeter to finish the combo with, as it will allow me to gain infinte life. Why this over options like Hissing Isinguar or Glaze Fiend? Firstly, its black so I dont have to go into a fourth color. I also didn't want to rely on attacking to complete the combo either, as your giant glaze fiend or whatever can be taken out pretty easily. Meanwhile, Deathgreeter is just one mana, and so can be played on "The Turn" and thus avoid most removal.
the (still rough) decklist:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation
// Lands
5 [ALA] Island (2)
4 [ALA] Plains (4)
5 [ALA] Swamp (1)
2 [CNF] Rupture Spire
2 [CNF] Exotic Orchard
4 [ALA] Arcane Sanctum
3 [ALA] Tezzeret the Seeker
4 [ALA] Sanctum Gargoyle
4 [ALA] Corpse Connoisseur
4 [ALA] Deathgreeter
4 [ALA] Sharuum the Hegemon
3 [ALA] Executioner's Capsule
2 [CNF] Martial Coup
2 [ALA] Protomatter Powder
4 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
4 [ALA] Courier's Capsule
This list is still rough and hasn't been heavily tested or anything. Some other interesting options I'm contemplating are 1x Onyx Goblet, for inevitability once you're at infinte life and Sphinx Summoner as another tutor. Sideboard is still up in the air, as I wanted to get a solid main deck first. I would love to hear any input or suggestions you guys have on this deck!
3 Ranger of Eos
3 Volcanic Fallout
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Rule of Law
1 Ancient Grudge
1. Why only 1 Grudge? Artifact removal seems pretty important for this deck. Does O-Ring double up as your main artifact removal? If so they seem way too clunky and slow as your main answer to artifacts.
2. Fallout seems nice vs Faeries, but other blue decks cropping up run less little men and more Goyfs, possibly decreasing the value of this card. I maybe wrong, but Sulfuric Vortex has been great for me, and I would rather have those in this slot.
3. Ranger of Eos is a really nice engine, but what do you use it against? Loam and the Mirror? When would you side these in and what would you take out?
It would be great if you could shed some light on some or all of these questions. Thanks in advance.
// Deck file for Magic Workstation
10 Plains
6 Mountain
4 Naya Panorama
4 Jungle Shrine
// Creatures
4 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Wall of Reverence
3 Battlegrace Angel
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Ajani Vengeant
2 Lapse of Certainty
3 Martial Coup
2 Banefire
4 Path to Exile
3 Volcanic Fallout
3 Scepter of Dominance
Basically, I want to protect my planeswalkers as long as possible while getting as much juice out of them as possible. The list is a bit rough, so don't be too harsh
Overkill - I also like the idea of having sweepers in the board. I agree that Firespout, though getting red mana is tougher than black for us, may be better, as decks we would want spouts against usually have anthems to negate infest.
Firstly, lol at mono U fae. Anyway, I would like to see your list. Sounds like mine, but with 2 warhammers thrown in over a path and nameless. Have the warhammers slowed you down at all? Thats the main reason I found myself cutting it, as I hated having it in my opening hand over a critter or removal most of the time.
@scrubzilla- It wasn't really much of a question for me. It was just Robinson didn't have any in his list, which struck me as surprising at least.
Also, robinson had 2x treetops, but I really didn't like the CiPT for this deck and my 5cc matchup was actually pretty good already. What have you guys found about this?
Anyway, here's my list so far:
4 [CNF] Ancient Ziggurat
3 [10E] Brushland
2 [ALA] Forest (1)
2 [10E] Llanowar Wastes
4 [MOR] Murmuring Bosk
1 [ALA] Plains (1)
2 [10E] Yavimaya Coast
4 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
// Creatures
4 [10E] Birds of Paradise
4 [LRW] Doran, the Siege Tower
3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
4 [CNF] Noble Hierarch
3 [ALA] Rafiq of the Many
4 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
4 [ALA] Tidehollow Sculler
4 [SHM] Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 [LRW] Cloudthresher
3 [LRW] Nameless Inversion
3 [CNF] Path to Exile
3 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
3 [MOR] Negate
1 [10E] Loxodon Warhammer
3 [LRW] Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 [LRW] Wispmare
2 [EVE] Stillmoon Cavalier
Also, Countersquall over Negate? I still think that's wrong. 2 points of damage is just not worth making the card twice as tough to cast.
Onto the thresher arguement. I'm not sure if this guy is entierly needed maindeck. Sure it destroys SpecProc tokens, but Teeg is enough of an anwser to that maindeck. So thresher's usefulness in those matchup's (Boat Brew and BW) is significantly lessened. The only deck it completely hoses - Faeries - is a good matchup already and is dropping in popularity. We can still hardcast as an instant speed fatty, but it costs 6 mana. I think its a great sb card for us, but not needed maindeck.