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  • posted a message on Mono Black Control
    It looks like you need more & better finishers. I'd suggest a combination of Grave Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, and Drana. Vampire Hexmage is also good to have MD because pretty much everything uses counters. And against RDW, it forces them to use burn because it kills literally everything they play.

    Liliana Vess is too slow. Specter and Vat work well because it's instant speed, and both are quite good on their own. And it's true that Skinrender and Vat work well together, Skinrender itself doesn't work as well as Gatekeeper. In the current meta, it is either too slow or doesn't do enough, depending on the deck you are facing.

    I would suggest something like Disfigure or Grasp of Darkness to bring in against other black based decks, and quick aggro decks.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Mono Black Control
    Mind Sludge isn't as good as it once was. Now, aggro doesn't have many cards in hand by turn 5, and control has enough card advantage to draw out of it.

    Diabolic tutor is rather slow, and while the tool box is nice in theory, a 4 cmc tutor isn't going to cut it. I'd rather just use the slots for extra copies of what I would be tutoring for.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Mono Black Control
    Played in 2 tournaments this weekend, FNM and a Saturday tournament.

    This is the list I played at FNM, going 3-2:


    Round 1 vs Grixis Control
    I saw 2 Inquisition, 1 Duress, and a Specter in my opening hand, with 2 swamps, a tec edge, and a doom blade. I shred his hand, but he still manages to land a Persecutor. I discard all of his ways to get rid of it, and kill his Frost Titan with my doom blade. He's powerless to stop Drana and a Shade from going the distance.

    In: 3 Gatekeeper, 2 Duress; Out: 3 Mimic Vat, 2 Ratchet Bomb

    Game 2 is back and forth a bit more, with him sucessfully killing off one of my Grave Titans with a Consuming Vapors, but I had a backup. I killed 2 of his Frost Titans with Doom Blade. He seemed surprised I kept those in.

    2-0 (2-0-0)

    Round 2 vs GB Infect
    Game 1 he's short black mana, and my discard is able to hit much of his infect creatures and one of his pump spells. He manages to get a Skithrix, but I've already got a Drana in play, and it doesn't get an attack off.

    in: 3 Gatekeeper, 2 Grasp of Darkness, 1 Duress; out: 4 Doom Blade, 2 Ratchet Bomb

    Game 2, he has to mulligan, and I'm able to kill his Skittles with Grasp of Darkness. Then I get him Specter-locked with Mimic Vat. 7 turns later, it's GG

    2-0 (4-0-0)

    Round 3 vs RDW

    Game 1, I don't even hit 5 mana before he kills me. I see 1 doom blade, 1 Ratchet Bomb and no discard.

    In: 2 Grasp of Darkness, 1 Duress, 2 Consume the Meek; Out 3 Mimic Vat, 2 Ratchet Bomb

    Game 2 I'm able to hit 5 mana, but by that time, I'm at 8. I need a Consume the Meek, or I'm dead, and I don't draw it. I really hate Goblin Guide.

    2-1 (4-2-0)

    Round 4 vs B/u something?
    He's playing semi-black control, with blue for Preordain, foursee, Jace, and tar pits.
    Game 1, he's short blue mana, and I attempt to use Tec edge to keep him unable to use his blue stuff. I don't draw many threats though, just 3 doom blade. Eventually he lands a Grave Titan.

    In: 3 Gatekeeper, 2 Grasp of Darkness, 1 Duress; Out 4 Doomblade, 2 Ratchet Bomb

    Game 2 I get mana flooded, but using Liliana's specters I'm able to make him discard 2 of his 3 grave titans. I get him to 12 quickly, but then his Gatekeepers, Nighthawks, and Skinrenders make my creatures dead, and I don't see any removal. He plays his third Grave Titan, and I'm dead.

    2-2 (4-4-0)

    Round 5 vs RW Allies.
    This kid is pretty awful, so I'm feeling pretty good about this matchup. Game 1, I use Inquisition to take out a Blademaster, and see a little removal. He gets me to 4, but I stabilize with Drana, and wreck him.

    In: 2 Grasp of Darkness, 2 Consume the Meek; Out 2 Duress, 2 Ratchet Bomb

    Game 2 I don't see any discard spells, just 2 hexmages, a Drana, and a ton of land. He Journey to Nowheres my Drana, and I don't draw anything relevant. I get a little frustrated, because I should be rolling this kid.

    Game 3, I get 2 Inquisition, 1 Consume the Meek, a Specter, and 3 swamps in my opening hand. He mulligans to 5, and I'm quite happy. I shred his hand, and he gets pretty ticked. He finally gets to cast somethings, but by that time I have plenty of mana, and a mimic vat in play. After he's got 3 or 4 creatures, I cast Consume the Meek, taking his ally that gives pro-colors when it comes into play for my Vat. A few turns later, I drop a Grave Titan, and that's game.

    3-2 (6-5-0)

    This made me realize that list was still rather vulnerable to aggro, and that Ratchet Bomb isn't that good. I also wanted more discard.

    So I made these changes:

    Main Deck:
    -2 Ratchet Bomb
    +1 Liliana's Specter
    +1 Grasp of Darkness (from Sideboard)

    Sideboard:
    -2 Grasp of Darkness (1 to main deck)
    -1 Sadistic Sacrament
    +3 Disfigure

    So it now looks like this:



    I took that list to a Saturday night tournament, and went 2-1, getting second.

    Round 1 vs White weenie Quest
    Game 1 I make him discard a bunch of stuff, and kill his dudes with Doomblades. Gatekeepers keep his Quests from activating. Drana seals the deal.

    In: 3 Disfigure, 2 Duress; Out: 3 Mimic Vat, 1 Nantuko Shade, 1 Sign in Blood

    Game 2 I get him to 11 with Hexmages and Specters, but he gets a Quest off, and I don't have the doomblade.

    Game 3, I wreck him with a combination of removal and discard. It doesn't hurt that he mulligans to 6. He's left with 1 card in hand (which is an Armor) when I drop a Grave titan on turn 6 or 7, and he scoops.

    1-0 (2-1-0)

    Round 2 vs RUG

    Game 1 I deny him blue mana, and force him to discard 3 explore, and kill off an Oracle. He never gets past 5 lands, as Drana and a Shade go the distance.

    In: 3 Sadistic Sacrament, 1 Duress, 2 Memoricide; Out: 3 Mimic Vat, 3 Grasp of Darkness

    Game 2 he ramps like a beast, and drops a Frost titan quite fast. I don't stand a chance, especially with the 3 Jaces he saw this game.

    Game 3 I do an amazing job of controling him with just 4 lands. I take away all of his win cons with 2 memoricides, leaving him with just 2/x guys and Raging Ravines. Unfortunately, I only see 2 doom blades (one is used on an Oracle, the other a Ravine) and 1 Tec edge, after I'm already at 5. I'm able to drop a Drana, but he just bounces it with Into the Roil, and uses Lightning Bolt and Cobra to kill me

    1-1 (3-2-0)

    Round 3 vs RW Vat Allies
    This deck tries to make everything an artifact, and then use allies and manic vandals with mimic vat to blow everything up. It's SUPER janky.
    Game 1 I steam roll him with a little removal, some discard, and a Nantuko shade.

    In: 3 Disfigure, 2 Consume the Meek; Out: 3 Mimic Vat

    Game 2 he gets me to 14, but Drana quickly clears up the board, and finishes things.

    2-1 (5-2-0)

    I also played a causal match against U/W merfolk. It seemed to play a lot like U/W control, but was significantly more aggressive. He got me to single digits, but I was able to stabilize with removal and Mimic Vat. Grave Titan finished both of those games for me.

    Total win/loss for the weekend:
    6-3 (13-7-0)

    I really wish we had Tendrils of Corruption back. That would go a long ways towards making MBC more competitive. I think RDW would be pretty much a joke then, and that definitely seemed like my hardest matchup.

    I'm thinking about cutting 1 Nantuko Shade or Liliana's Specter for a 4th Hexmage. I'm leaning more towards the Shade, because I think 3 is enough to see them regularly.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Mono Black Control

    What do you guys think about Geth, Lord of the Vault? Seems alright especially on a Vat. EoT Vat, untap, vat again swing for 10 unblockable!? Sounds good. I'm short 1 Grave Titan so for now imma try 1x Geth, 2x GT, and 2x Wurmcoil Engine as my bomb suite.


    This won't work because Geth is legendary. The tokens will just kill themselves. My current finishers are 2 Drana and 2 Grave Titan. Coupled with Shade and Vat (for taking their stuff) this is more than enough.

    If you don't have Titans, Wurmcoul is probably the best substitute.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Mono Black Control
    I went 3-1 with this list today: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=6056228&postcount=4191

    My loss was in round 1 to a U/w Merfolk deck. Game 1 I got stuck on 3 lands, and didn't draw a 4th and 5th until it was way too late. Game 2, I played a little to aggressively and should have held back Shade to block for a couple of turns that I didn't.

    Round 2 was against URG, but the player was still learning the game. Mimic Vat, Specter, and Drana made both games a total blowout. She did seem to have some really bad luck, getting stuck on 6 lands with an Avenger in hand, and not able to get land on top with Oracle.

    Round 3 was against a Rb Kiln Fiend deck. Game 1, I use a pair of Tec edges, Hexmage, and Mimic Vat to control his field, and keep him back peddeling. Game 2, I have a Vat in play, and play a Grave Titan. He uses a pair of burn spells to kill it, and I can barely hide the glee on my face as I imprint it on Vat. He realizes what he did, and scoops.

    Round 4 vs Mono White Eldrazi
    Game 1 I hit him with some early disruption in the form of IoK and Duress, taking away Omens and DoJ. A turn 5 Mind Sludge for 3 (2 of my lands were Tec Edge) pitches his emrakul and some other stuff. I drop a Mimic Vat and Specter, and follow it up with a Skinrender, putting my Specter on the Vat. I'm then able to Specter lock him out of the game.

    Game 2 I drop a turn 2 Shade, turn 3 vat, turn 4 specter. He plays a Baneslayer, which I Doom Blade and imprint. Shade and Baneslayer go the rest of the way.

    I was pretty pleased with how the deck played out, though I wasn't impressed with Mind Sludge or Ratchet Bomb (though I think the Ratchet bomb is because I didn't play any true aggro decks).

    Changes:
    -2 Mind Sluge
    -1 Mimic Vat (to SB)
    +2 Grasp of Darkness (from SB)
    +1 Swamp
    SB:
    -2 Grasp of Darkness (to MB)
    -1 Ratchet Bomb
    +2 Memoricide
    +1 Mimic Vat

    I am thinking about cutting the 4th shade from my SB for a third Memoricide as well.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Mono Black Control
    I think it's a meta call. If there are a lot of Shroud creatures, Gatekeeper is definitely better. For my meta, I think the ability to target with Skinrender is more usefull.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Mono Black Control
    Since I'm not running any BBB spells, I think 4 Tec Edge is fine. In playtesting I haven't had any problems not hitting enough swamps.

    Mindgames, I hardly think that the results from 1 FNM is enough to say that 4 Tec Edge is too many.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Mono Black Control
    After some playtesting and reading, I think I've settled on this list to take to the Sunday Magic tournament here:



    The meta should be a pretty diverse mix of aggro and control, with at least 1 B/G Infect, 1 Soul Sisters, 1 U/W Control, 1 Esper Lux Cannon Control, and 1 UGR control.

    I chose Drana over Wurmcoil for the evasion, and repeatable removal. I think it will be more usefull than the lifelink offered by the Wurm.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Mono Black Control
    Its been a while since I played MBC (switched to Mono Green Eldrazi), but this Sunday I'll be taking this list to a tournament:


    I would have 3 Memoricide inplace of the Echoes and pair of Vess in the SB, but I don't have any, and the gaming store is currently out as well. Any other suggestions?
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Dev] G/x Eldrazi
    Played this list at a Sunday tournament, went 3-1 for second place. My loss was to Mythic Bant with Fauna Shaman.



    Round 1 vs Pyromancer
    Game 1 is protracted, it takes him a little while to get an active Ascention and Timewarp. Games 2 and 3 end when I get a Leyline into play. He didn't have Into the Roil anywhere in his 75, because he wasn't expecting anyone to board in Leyline against him.

    2-1

    Round 2 vs 5 color control (with Leyline of Anticipation)
    Game 1 I drop a couple of Pelakka Wurms, which both get O-Ringed. He casts a couple of instant speed Cruel Ultimatums, before I get an AiD and a Kozilek. Next turn I drop an Emrakul for the win.

    Game 2 I don't side in Leyline for some reason, and eventually a man-land and Obelisk of Alara gets him there.

    Game 3 I ramp a bunch, but he has disruption to keep my threats at bay. I finally trap into a Kozilek, followed by a topdecked Emrakul for the match.

    2-1

    Round 3 vs Mythic (with Fauna Shaman), this is the guy who beat me last week too.

    Game 1 he has Paths and O-rings for my ramp. A Bird with a conscription gets there for him.

    Game 2, I get screwed for white mana. I almost still pull it off with a Summoning trap, but he Paths my Kozilek.

    0-2

    Round 4 vs Esper

    Game 1 I ramp and play Eldrazi, he plays a Grave Titan and a Jace TMS, but I AiD them away.

    Game 2 he paths my Ulamog, but can't draw any threats either. A pair of Stirring Wildwoods go most of the distance, and an Emrakul finishes the job.

    I played a causal game against another player who had a different version of Mythic Bant (this one with Rafiq and Finest Hour) and crushed him. He had counterspells mained, over removal.

    how are you guys handling Mythic Bant? Am I just getting incredibly unlucky, or is he playing a very strange variant?
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Dev] G/x Eldrazi
    I don't think he'll come out nearly as fast as Kozilek and Ulamog can, since the temples don't work for him. But he would be another huge trap target that isn't legendary
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Dev] G/x Eldrazi
    I've found it's beneficial to keep Kozilek and Ulamog in agaisnt RDW. They're cheap enough to get out easily, and RDW can't really answer either of them.

    I went 3-2 at FNM today. Losses were to RuDW, seemed like he got nut draws on me, and RDW, which I punted.

    Against the Ru deck, there wasn't really anything I could do. Game 1, he dropped a turn 1 guide, into turn 2 and 3 geopede. I didn't see any battlements, and he had burn for my Omens. Game 2 I didn't see any sideboard stuff, and he did much the same as game 1.

    Against the RDW I lost to, I crushed him game 1, and then sided in 3 Firewalkers, 2 Leyline, 2 Celestial Purge for 2 Emrakul, 2 All is Dust, 3 Path to Exile. For some reason in Game 2, I decided it was better to play a Leyline and Firewalker instead of a Pelakka wurm to get safely out of range of any of his creatures or burn (I was at 2 life, he had 3 mana, and some walls in play, with Ulamog and Wurm left in hand). Had I played the wurm, next turn I'd have Ulamogged for the win. Game 3 he got a turn 4 Mana Barbs, and I didn't see a way to get rid of it. I wasn't really expecting Mana Barbs, and have been able to just power through the Red leyline, so I didn't bother with enchantment removal.

    My wins were against mono-white allies, RDW, and Esper Control. I also played a guy for fun against his Pyromancer's Combo. I was able to win or be in a position to win 3 out of 4 games.

    My sideboard play for Pyromancers is:
    +3 Oblivion Ring
    +2 Leyline of Sanctity
    +2 Celestial Purge
    +3 Naturalize/Nature's Claim

    -3 Path to Exile
    -3 Birds of Paradise
    -2 Pelakka Wurm
    -2 All is Dust

    It seemed to work very well.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Dev] G/x Eldrazi
    Quote from Outlaw_DJ
    hey guys so I was hitting up a bunch of games on MWS and I found it strange I couldn't outramp Valakut Titan. each game they had cultivate and khanli in this hand. even after I sided leyline he would just kill all my stuff with the pinnacles. i really needed an ulamog but he just never came. anyone else experience this?

    (i whooped everything else including a conscription deck, lols)


    When I played against Valakut Titan, I brought in Naturalize to take out their enchantments, killing it once it had gotten 1-2 counters. That slowed his ramp down considerably. I also didn't have trouble getting my eldrazi out either, and only lost because I played Kozilek instead of Ulamog because I didn't realize he could kill me before my next turn.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Dev] G/x Eldrazi
    Why no overgrown battlements?

    Also, it's been my experience that Naturalize is better than Acidic Slime
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Dev] G/x Eldrazi
    I'm inclined to agree with Saga. I completely blew the Bant version out of the water.

    Aitrus, I think you should cut the Artisans of Kozilek for the Titans, not Pelakka Wurm. And I'd up the Kozilek and Ulamog count to 2 apiece.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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